Long Trip, Didnt Check Oil, Ran Outa Oil, What Now?

[burning1]

When you split the cases, remember that there is a bolt near the starter motor. Lots of people miss it - you'll pry and pry trying to get it apart. With the side covers, there is a bolt under the ingition pickup that needs to come off.

The GS engine comes apart pretty easily if you haven't missed a bolt.

[weedahoe]

WHen I took mine apart, I followed the Service Manual to the step and it worked out great.

[adidasguy]

When you split the cases, remember that there is a bolt near the starter motor. Lots of people miss it - you'll pry and pry trying to get it apart. With the side covers, there is a bolt under the ingition pickup that needs to come off.

The GS engine comes apart pretty easily if you haven't missed a bolt.

I recall 2 bolts behind the oil filter. Those usually get missed, too.

[burning1]

True. I've never had a problem with them, but I can totally see how someone would miss them.

[stokes776]

All right, got the cylinder head off the engine last night.

Those Cylinder Head bolts were on there extremely tight, took a lot of force for me to break them free.  Once broken in reverse order I loosened each carefully in the same order and was able to get the heads off.  One thing I am curious about.  There were 8 nuts there, and the Haynes manual had me first take a 9th bolt off of the front of the engine in the same step as the 8 domed nuts for the Cylinder Head.  After removing the cylinder head I don't understand what purpose that 9th bolt served on the outside?  Does anyone know?  Just me being curious.

EDIT: Reading the Haynes manual on my lunch, I think I removed both the Cylinder Head and the Cylinder Block as one component.  When I was looking at that 9th bolt, it did look like the thing should separate, but when I pulled on it, the combination of the Head and Block came up and off.  Shoot I hope I didn't break anything by doing that.

So far the Camshafts look good, no wear or scoring or anything that looks weird on them.  The piston heads were solid black, one of them all the way across on the head whereas the other had a small ring of normal metal around the edges, looked a bit weird as I was expecting them to be the same.

I can see into the Connecting Rod maybe, through one of the holes where the piston is currently elevated, and I don't see any discoloration on the Crankshaft or Connecting Rod like I did in a couple of posts from other people, have yet to check the other one.

Will be opening up the case hopefully in the next day or two.

[stokes776]

All right, I could use a bit of advice on this one.

Got the new ('98) engine! Yesterday afternoon.  Spent all evening, this morning mounting it bad putting the bike back together.

Due to wiring differences I had to remove my 04 Alternator and 04 Neutral Sensor Switch and install them in the '98 engine.  Also had to move over the Signal Pulse Generator.

When installing the SPG into the '98 engine I snapped the bolt off into what I think it screws into, the crank.  I was able to chisel an end onto it and get it unscrewed and used the second bolt I had, this time following the torque specifications to the T, got it installed no problem.

Apparently not having learned my lesson I go to drain and fill with new oil, when tightening down the oil filter cap on the '98 engine, using my torque wrench set properly I think I missed the click on the bottom most bolt and stripped the hole on the engine.  Now on my '04 these are all domed nuts on studs, but on this '98 engine there are two domed nuts with studs, but the bottom most connection is just a bolt, (picture below).

Is this normal or did this get repaired this way in a past lifetime.  Part fiches from Bike Bandit dont give me any hints except that it should be a stud.

Not thinking anything of it, and checking for leaks, seeing none I start the bike up for the first time, about 45 seconds later that bolt comes flying out along with half my oil, immediately shut the bike off, I dont think any harm was done by that.

I am thinking I stripped the hole on the aluminum engine chassis, based on the presence of what looks like aluminum in the threads on this bolt that came out.

How long should this bolt or stud be? I am also trying to determine if it snapped off, I dont think it did, but I dont know the depth that it should be.  On the picture with my fingers in it, that is how deep my screw driver will go into the hole.

My options?:

1. Buy a new bolt, thread it in and see if it will work?  Based on the failure of bolt #1, it looks like its the threads that got destroyed, the bolt is actually OK. I don't like this idea.

2. Helicoil.  I have never used, but have heard it mentioned on this forum before.  Any +1 for helicoil?

3. Tap and Die by hand.  Have never done, would have to research.  Co-workers say tap and die to slightly larger and should be good.

4. Take to machine shop.  Costs $$$, might have to remove engine again

5. Buy a stud, red loctite and get that sucker in there as tight as I can, should never have to come out right?

I am going to go to the hardware store on my lunch and discuss the helicoil and tap and die options with them.

Does anyone have the specifications for pitch/length/diameter of the studs that are 'supposed' to be in the oil filter cover assembly?

Thanks guys!

[Dizzledan]

Too bad about the oil filter bolt. Most times the studs (which are standard, someone likely broke a stud previously and replaced with a bolt) will break/strip and you can remove/replace them a la this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aE_bntq_iE&

In your case, I would look into heli-coiling as the bottom bolt is pretty accessible and easy to drill out.

When your threads are better, replace that bolt with the correct size stud and don't over-torque the cap nuts.

[ThatOtherGuy]

I had the same thing happen to me almost like you were looking over my shoulder watching.  I ended up replacing all three with new matching studs (with allan key hollow heads to tighten with).  Luckily the bottom hole was I found quite long, so only the first bit of thread was stripped out.  Hasn't been a problem since, just use nyloc nuts to hold the oil filter cover in place and do not over tighten, be very careful even when using the torque wrench.

[stokes776]

Thanks Dizzle!

I think I will get equipment to run two helicoils.  I will do one on my '04 engine which is currently on a jack, all good threads.  That way I can make a mistake and not destroy my only working engine.  If I succeed, I just gain a helicoiled thread for when I fix the 04 engine.  If I fail and mess it up, I messed up an engine that is already broken, already out of the bike and I can take it to a machine shop to see if it can be saved.

Once I have practice I will take a crack at helicoiling the '98 stripped thread.

Thanks for the video, it provided me the sizes of the helicoil kit I think I will need.  I will go with what they say, but does anyone know if the size is different?  The video was using a black engine which is the E series if I recall correctly.  I am working on a '98 and I dont think its an E, it is silver. 

From what I can tell all GS500 have the same size Oil Filter bolts, its just the bolt on the bottom that is different, 17 or 22 I think it is.

[BockinBboy]

If its a 98, it has to be an E.  Model F wasnt assigned until 04.  Engine color changed from all black to silver with black stator cover in 97-02, then all silver 04+.  But as you say, regarding oil change parts, the studs are the same for all years; however, the drain bolt did change in size.  A look at parts fiches from the varying years will probably tell you with more certainty.

-Bboy

[adidasguy]

All 3 for the oil cover are the same on all engines.

The reason for one being different is someone in the past broke it and replaced it.

On one engine bottom I have it was the upper right that had a bolt. Fortunately it was a broken stud in the past and threads were still correct so I just put in the right stud and made it like factory original again.

The oil filter cover bolts can be hand snug. There is the o-ring that seals. So no need to go really tight. And the torque is really low. Don't confuse inch-pounds, foot-pounds and newton-meters. Use a new o-ring.

[Huff1371]

Definitely go for the helicoil. Make sure you use the tap specific to the helicoil and not a standard tap. I.e. if it's a M8 helicoil use a M8 helicoil tap and not a regular M8 tap.  The thread pitch is the same but the diameter is larger to allow for the helicoil. Also, might be a good idea to opt for a screw-locking helicoil. It will provide a mechanical lock of the stud without the need for a threadlocker by galling the thread purposely. Google " emhart industries" and give them a call. They will usually send you free samples if you tell them its for a company use.

[sledge]

Google " emhart industries" and give them a call. They will usually send you free samples if you tell them its for a company use.

Will they send the pilot drill, the tap and the insertion and tab tools as well? 

Before tapping the new thread for the helicoil the old thread needs to be cleaned out of the hole with a pilot drill. If you dont do this there is a chance the new thread wont cut cleanly and the helicoil wont go in......particularly in soft metals.

Cant remember if those studs are M6 or M8 but........

For aluminium alloy M6 helicoils need a 6.3mm dia hole, M8 needs 8.3mm. Thats 1/4" and 21/64" in old money but the decent kits include them.

[mab32]

You're not an idiot, you made a mistake you won't make again.
Like the guys say, look for another engine and go from there.
It sucks but .....

[Huff1371]

They usually send me an entire kit. It does come with the cheaper insert tool that's just a dowel with a slot instead of the spindle with the housing. But I do a ton of business with them, probably $7000 or more a month.

[Huff1371]

Might not look like $300 or more in tools but if you can get your hands on a set for the size you need they work really really well.


Or something that might be easier is something called an E-Z Lok. They are a solid threaded insert that require no special tools, just standard taps and drills. Loctite them in (I'd suggest 277 or 2760, but 262 would work) and stick your bolt in it. http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threaded-inserts/=jc58pq

[stokes776]

Well, after the whole oil filter cover night/morning (happened at like 3AM in the morning) I left a note on the bike explaining what had happened, I figured it would be nice for my friend to know why half his driveway was covered in oil.

I came home and researched helicoils and taps and dies, with your guys help.  The next day my friend, without me knowing or asking, (more mechanical than I) just went ahead and re-tapped it to 7/16, installed a stud in it, has a washer and nut over the oil filter cover, and shot me an email that it was ready for oil.

So thank you for all the awesome information and pictures on helicoils etc, I wish I had been able to put it to use, but I will digest it incase I ever need to in the future.  Hopefully it helps someone else out who may have the same problem in the future on these forums!

I came over the next day with more oil, filled it up, checked the torque on the two nuts and the new 7/16 nut and took it for my first ride in a little under a month.  It sounded a bit 'funny' at that time but I can't tell if that's just because it is a different engine or not.  I only have ever known the sound of my engine, and for all I know something might have been off with my engine causing it to not be normal and maybe this 98 one is normal.

After riding it more that night, finally getting it home and taking it to work today, the engine noise sounds much more normal to what I expect, might have just needed to have some miles put on it.  I have no idea how long that '98 engine was sitting.

Because I have no idea how long that engine was sitting I think I need to do a valve shim check (have not done that yet).  I watched Kerry's video and ordered a set of feeler gauges.

1. New Exhaust Gaskets (Not sure if I even have them on right now). Currently on their way to my mailbox.

2. Valve Shim Check. Feeler Guages on their way.  I have 4 shims from my old engine otherwise will need to order

3. Cable Check.  Have to give throttle to start, even when choked, must give throttle for the first minute or so then its good.  When I shift into first, the bike moves forward a bit, even when clutch is in all the way.  After the bike is warm it does not seem to do this.  Is this just cable adjustments?

[burning1]

Just a general word of advise... Be very careful with torque wrenches. Big wrenches often won't click on low torque bolts... So, for little stuff like those studs, you need to use a really sensitive low torque wrench. Even then, you can still break stuff, so you need to learn to feel for a bolt that's twisting it's head off.

[stokes776]

Just had a thought reading a different thread about an engine swap.

This port on my '98 engine where the tach would connect.... I am not using it because I moved the other pickup over, tach is reading just fine.

You guys had said to 'plug' this tach port.  I put some pieces of electrical tape over it, but they are not holding.  How should I plug it better?  Actually stuff some shop rags down into it tightly?

[adidasguy]

A short screw or a rubber nipple should cover it up. You can take of the cover and remove the gear and all that stuff. Might make it easy to screw on a cover plate with a gasket.