Painless clutch repair? Has become very strange?!?!?

[adidasguy]

Here are the symptoms:

1. Lots of drag when starting bike
2. Nearly impossible to move IN GEAR with clutch pulled in.
3. Will move when in neutral, though stilll some drag when starting
4. With sides of engine off and clutch lever pulled in...
   * Clutch release plate does move out 1/8" with clutch lever
   * Plates seem stuck together
   * In 1st gear, can force wheel to eventually turn. When turning, will keep turning. Stop and it gets stuck again
   * Plates can be wiggled back & forth and apart with fingers but wheel still is locked until you finally get it moving

Remember - all this done with clutch lever in.

Other useful information:
1. No idea how the PO took care of the donor bike.
2. Phenix does have fresh oil (5 weeks ago)
3. Have done a couple 200 mile high speed twistie rides recently
4. Problem came on rather suddenly over a few days
5. First symptom was lurching when starting in gear with clutch pulled in

Thinking of the least painful method to fix this.
1. Can clutch plates be removed and cleaned? Could they be soaked with old crap?
2. I have 2 spare complete clutch baskets. Could I simply remove the clutch plates and put in the plates from a spare clutch assembly?

Seeing if I can eliminate the necessity of completely removing everything. The basket and gears are all OK. Removing existing plates and spacers and replacing with ones from a spare clutch assembly? Sound like a plan?

Do clutch assemblies get sticky with age?

[knowles]

When i did mine i just replaced the whole clutch basket. make sure you get a new lock washer that holds the basket on the engine. 25 min job.

[Big Rich]

Being that it could just be a case of clutch abuse / neglect, I would replace the plates and springs all together.

I'm just assuming you've set the freeplay properly already? I know, I know, just had to ask........

[craigs449]

No need to replace the outer basket unless there are deep grooves where the fiber plates touch the basket.  You can just do a visual inspection of this, if there are grooves, the clutch fiber plates will hang up on them sometimes and there will be difficulty in actuating/releasing the clutch.  IN most cases, you just need to replace the fibers and steels.  I would not use the existing clutch pack from another bike unless it is fresh and you know what shape it is in.  If you do use another used clutch pack, be sure to put it in the other bike in the EXACT order it came out or you will have problems with it forever!  Finally, if you get a new clutch pack (highly suggested), be sure to soak the fibers and steels in whatever motor oil that you will be using for a few hours before putting the clutch in.

[bombsquad83]

If you did this already and you are still having issues, then it's time to replace the clutch pack.  I would go new.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EBC-clutch-friction-plates-NEW-Suzuki-GS500F-2004-2008-/230847605647?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35bf96eb8f&vxp=mtr

[weedahoe]

If it were me and I had spare clutch baskets ready to go (Which I do), I would simply swap them out, get it running and inspect the original basket later and refurb it as needed for the next time

[jestercinti]

Here are the symptoms:

1. Lots of drag when starting bike
2. Nearly impossible to move IN GEAR with clutch pulled in.
3. Will move when in neutral, though stilll some drag when starting
4. With sides of engine off and clutch lever pulled in...
   * Clutch release plate does move out 1/8" with clutch lever
   * Plates seem stuck together
   * In 1st gear, can force wheel to eventually turn. When turning, will keep turning. Stop and it gets stuck again
   * Plates can be wiggled back & forth and apart with fingers but wheel still is locked until you finally get it moving

Remember - all this done with clutch lever in.

Other useful information:
1. No idea how the PO took care of the donor bike.
2. Phenix does have fresh oil (5 weeks ago)
3. Have done a couple 200 mile high speed twistie rides recently
4. Problem came on rather suddenly over a few days
5. First symptom was lurching when starting in gear with clutch pulled in

Thinking of the least painful method to fix this.
1. Can clutch plates be removed and cleaned? Could they be soaked with old crap?
2. I have 2 spare complete clutch baskets. Could I simply remove the clutch plates and put in the plates from a spare clutch assembly?

Seeing if I can eliminate the necessity of completely removing everything. The basket and gears are all OK. Removing existing plates and spacers and replacing with ones from a spare clutch assembly? Sound like a plan?

Do clutch assemblies get sticky with age?

Had this issue too on my 2009 F model, 9400 miles.  A major clutch adjustment (see Bombsquad's post with the locknut and screw method) fixed my issue.

[bmxr123]

if the bike lurches when you have the clutch pulled in then you need a clutch adjustment...Your clutch isn't disengaging all the way..First try to adjust at the lever until you feel a bit of slack..Then see how she feels..If you can't get slack with a cable adjustment at the lever then look to do a lower clutch adjustment..

[sledge]

Take the plates and discs out of the basket, separate them and shuffle them about, reassemble and adjust, you just might get lucky. Also check out the little tiny thrust bearing behind the cover that the pushrod acts on.

[Funderb]

I was told, for older bikes that drag a lot - if they have been sitting,
Change oik
put the wheel up against a wall
start in gear - clutch pulled
rev the snot out of it
it should free up stuck plates momentarily

it is a trick used to strip apart friction/drive plates stuck together by age.

if that doesn't help you have 2 options:
Replace clutch plates and springs
and/or
replace clutch basket that may be worn.

[adidasguy]

2006 engine with 6000 miles.
Problem came on very suddenly.
Oil was new.
Possibly old goo in engine loosened up after running him a lot. I have no idea how the PO took care only he said he didn't like to do maintenance so I figure long time on old oil. Chain was never oiled.
Maybe cleaning all the plates and coating in clean oil will help. They tend to stick together when holding the stack. So maybe just lots of old goo on them. They just feel sticky, not slippery like cleanly oiled stuff.
Engine needed a good look inside anyway due to lack of maintenance by PO.

Once wheel is moving (with clutch in) it moves. Let up on the clutch so plates are pressed together again and they get stuck together. All look good, flat. No bluing of the metal plates from excessive heat.

After bowling I'll clean  them all in kerosene then apply fresh oil.

[gsatterw]

I too have this problem...started happening after an oil change, PO hadn't changed it in god knows how long...may lend support to the loosened up crap theory.

[adidasguy]

Update:
I cleaned all the plates with kerosene. probably doesn't make any difference if they are all in backwards or whatever. I may have flipped all of them in the cleaning. Not sure but sometimes I do a blond thing. Only 6k miles on the motor so they weren't worn that much anyway.

Also, in all this I checked the stator because charging was sluggish according to the idiot LED.

So.... I put everything back together. Filled with fresh AmsOil. Sluggish start at first. then OK. Started a few more times tonight and seems good!

I guess there was a combination of things.

1. Crud - due to PO not changing oil. So fresh oil released crud and made the clutch plates sticky.
2. Some weak electrical connections. A possibility as lots was disconnected then reconnected.
3. Rechecked all clutch adjustments.

When engine was moved from donor bike to Phenix, all controls and cables went intact. There was no need to do massive adjustments since cables, controls and engine were moved without disconnecting anything. Probably was slightly out of adjustment due to no maintenance by the PO of the donor bike.

I was in a rush to get Phenix on the road - you know, the project gets a motor so lets go riding!

I will recheck valves and re-sync the carbs with my new carb tool on Saturday. Until then, I'll ride him a little and see how he behaves.

One thing - since the charging was sluggish - is a LiFe battery acts differently when it gets low compared to a lead acid battery. Lead acid just dies. LiFe keeps trying to put out power so low battery is not as obvious. Charging problems I am sure were part of the problem. I have to remember how an LiFe battery acts when low and it is not the same sudden death as with a lead acid battery.

Anyway, I'll update later. Clutch plates are all clean and seem OK now. Charging is super fast. No oil leaks so far.

Whatever the causes, it was good to take off both sides of the engine and check everything out. Good learning experience and good to know what is inside the donor motor.

[bombsquad83]

What did you do to make it charge better now?

[jestercinti]

Update...I had this issue, adjusted the clutch, went away, now it's back.  09 F model.  9500 miles, and I ride every day to my job in a downtown skyscraper.  I park for free, and it gets twice the gas mileage of my POS Mazda.

Can't blame on PO since I bought the bike with 1 mile on it.  I change oil religiously.  I use diesel truck 15W40 Chevron Delo LE oil.  Sticks when I start on a colder day in 1st gear with clutch in. 

My normal starting procedure is:
Shift to neutral
clutch in
side stand up, center stand up
kill switch off
key on
choke all the way on
press start button
Vroom!

Only this morning I was in a hurry and started in first gear.  Lunged forward.  Startled the hell out of me.  Sticky clutch or oil type I presume since the clutch adjustments are spot on.

Winter is coming here in SW Ohio...I have some more nagging items that I need to look at anyway.

[gsatterw]

winter is coming...

[Funderb]

jester, you might want to add front brake to that procedure! 

[adidasguy]

What did you do to make it charge better now?

Might have been disconnecting things to check the stator then reconnecting things and my usual procedure is a spray of DeOxit contact cleaner/protector.

[pliskin]

Same issue here on my 06. I got the bike with 4500miles on it and it was doing it from the start. My old bike did it as well. I usually pump the clutch a couple of times before starting. Or, put it in first, clutch in, and roll forward and backward to free the "stick"

[adidasguy]

There is still an issue with Phenix.
Even in neutral, the starter really works hard to get him going. Once running, he will start right up again.
Clutch is better. Charging back to normal.

Possibilities:
1. Very tight valves (Cranking engine by hand, sometimes it would really snap forward or be hard to turn in one spot)
2. There is a bearing going out that seizes up when cold.

The puzzling thing is it came on rather suddenly over a few days. I plan to do a valve check next. I wanted to ride him today to see how he behaves and check for oil leaks. Oil is OK. He still acts like the engine is seizing up when cold. Once running or warm, he is OK.

Any thoughts?