Gear shift indicator install

[weedahoe]

As some of you know, Rashy68 and I both ordered these gear shift indicators off ebay and he had a thread HERE that I felt I was taking over (sorry) so Im starting my own.

Ive already got everything mapped out for the install but spent most of the evening working on the placement and mount for the indicator LCD itself.

On a side note, my chrome vinyl came in for my windshield and Ive already taken the black Suzuki sticker off of it so I will be doing that windshield soon and getting back to wrapping the fairngs in the black carbon fiber.

Anyway, here are some pics

http://sdrv.ms/PnCbw1

[rashy68]

Awesome stuff Weed. I wasn't going to go to that effort but you have inspired me. I just need to get off my arse now and get working.

[bryan88]

Probably way off topic, but wonder if anyone has ever tried fitting the gear position indicator from the older GS450?

[weedahoe]

So Ive got a problem. Ive got it all wired up and everything works good but its not detecting neutral?

Here is a pic of how it gets wired. Ive got my white wire on the display cable going to my blue wire on my bikes neutral switch.

[EDIT] - solution found - With my trusty Fluke 87, it seems there is ground at N with the key off (audible tone continuity test verifies). With the key on and the N light on, there is no audible continuity tone and slightly 0.200+/- volts. In ANY gear 1-6 the N light obviously is off and there is 12+ volts. If I take the white wire and touch it to direct ground, it will reset to 0 (neutral). So evidently, the 0.200 volts in enough to not make it reset.

Resolution? Use a micro relay to use the 0.200+/- volts at neutral to trigger the coil, close the contacts and supply direct ground to the white wire.

[EDIT 2] relay doesnt work. 0.200 volts doesnt trigger the coil - see next post

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/royyy123/027.jpg

[weedahoe]

So maybe someone can help me out here because Ive hit a brick wall 

So lets recap. The indicator needs a ground at neutral to reset the display to 0. The problem is at N with the key on, there is no ground. UGH!

So with the two plugs from the neutral switch completely disconnected, I can set my meter to a continuity tone test and get a tone (ground verified) with the key off. But as soon as I flip the key I loose tone (ground lost)? How can that be?

With the key off and the N switch disconnected I get 3 ohms but when I flip the key it jumps to 200 +/- ohms. Im confused on how it can do that when the only two harness plugs which holds the only 3 wires that go to the switch are physically disconnected.

Anyone have any ideas?

[adidasguy]

Somehow you're checking wrong.
Neutral switch makes a direct connection to ground. That connection (blue wire) goes to the dual diode. The dual diode goes to the neutral light and the side stand relay.
There are 2 extra wires from the neutral switch (red and green) for newer models. Those are for 1st and 2nd gear for the ICU.

Pick up the neutral from the blue wire or the black wire on the neutral light.

With power off, blue wire shorts to frame in neutral. Other two wires are 1st and 2nd gears. Due to grease and oil in the neutral switch (why there is an o-ring on it) it probably will not be infinite resistance when circuit is open but will be really high. When connection is made, will be nearly zero resistance (might be some due to oil on the contact surface and general wire resistance)

FYI: you do not measure resistance or continuity with power on. A resistance test or continuity puts a small voltage out to test resistance or continuity. Power ON really messes that up because power is put into the circuit and can blow out the resistance setting on the meter.

With power ON, ONLY and ONLY measure voltage.

Grease, dirt and crud do allow some electricity to flow. Grease around the neutral switch can cause odd readings if trying to measure resistance with power on - if there is any leakage of voltage from anywhere through dirt and crud.

[weedahoe]

Trust me, Ive been over the schematic over and over. I am using the blue wire from the N switch. I know it changes to blue/black after the diode.

I originally did tap the blue/black at the harness plug coming from the gauge cluster.

After not getting the results I wanted/needed, this made me go back further in the complete harness to before the diode to the harness where the N switch connects to the other part of the harness behind the battery box on the pass side.

I agree I can get a continuity tone with the power off so yes, it does seem the blue wire shorts to frame. But why not when the power is on? That is when I need the neutral to give a ground.

I know not to measure resistance in high voltage applications but in low (12v or less) it can be done with good quality meters that have the range and protection.

But overall, with power on, I need ground at N. This and only this will reset the display to 0.

But in the end, Im getting the education to remove the side cover, pull the switch and clean it and around it thoroughly right?

I will give it a shot.

[weedahoe]

Ok, just went out and pulled the cover. The outer part of the switch was really clean so I didnt expect much behind it but I pulled it anyway.

There was a little oil behind the switch and it was directly on top of the small pin (of all the places it could have been) on the switch. So I cleaned it off and screwed it back in and now it works. With the switch out BTW, I was reading 1.7 ohms through the contact to the end of the blue wire.

I owe you a beer adidasguy but for now, Karma will have to suffice

[adidasguy]

With power on, the circuit has +12v going through the neutral light. When NOT in neutral, you will read +12v through the neutral wires. When bike goes to neutral, the neutral switch connects to ground thus grounding out that circuit (and making the light come on and the side stand relay click on).

I measured the blue wire at the connector under the seat. About 12v with bike on and NOT in neutral. In neutral - about 0.2v. That's expected accounting for some wire resistance and other stuff. (No reason to keep taking off the left side cover as the wires' connectors are under the seat).

Worst case? Add a relay to that circuit to make a direct connection to ground when in neutral.

[weedahoe]

Im guessing you didnt read my last post but its totally cool because I can see were on the same page with everything. Yeah, in any gear other than N I was reading 12v and at N I was reading 0.2v. So its good you are getting the same.

My original intention was to add a micro relay and have the 0.2v trigger the coil to supply a ground and I bought a SPDT 5v 1A relay today but the 0.2v isnt enough to power the coil and trip the contacts. Wasnt but $4 so Ill throw it in the box of other parts.

Thanks though for confirming everything

[adidasguy]

Well, I started typing then went to the store for people food then came home and did the test then finished typing THEN I read your post.

Thank you for the karma korn 

Oh, and that 5v relay would get fried with 12v.
You want a 12v relay. Connect coil to +12v and other side of coil to neutral wire. When in neutral, relay closes and contacts can be to ground and to your new thingy.

[weedahoe]

Yeah, originally the 5v relay was for the 0.2 volts I was finding in N. Since that's the only time the relay would be used. At any gear and at 12v it would not be used. But looks like now I won't even need a relay at all.

I will do pics and a video in the next few days.

[adidasguy]

Remember that the neutral line will be at +12v when not in neutral. The neutral switch grounds the line. So what would you connect the other wire of the relay coil to? Choices are ground or +12. Either way, it will fry when in neutral if connected to +12. It will fry when not in neutral if connected to ground because the neutral line will be at +12v.

The neutral switch is not putting out 0.2v. That's what's left after it is connecting the +12v blue wire to ground (due to a little resistance it is not to absolute ground).

If adding relays to out 12v bike electrical systems you have to use 12v relays or they will fry the coil (unless you put a dropping resistor in series with the coil --- value depends on ohms of the coil --- the v=IR equation thingy. aka Ohm's Law)

With any relay, there is a little hysteresis. Say a 12v relay. It might need 9v to latch it on. To release it, voltage may need to go down to 5v or lower. You can play with that. If you have a variable voltage source, start at zero and slowly go up until the relay latches. Then lower voltage until it releases. You'll see a difference. 5v relay probably needs 3v to latch and under 2v to release. Coil design, springs on the contacts and stuff can vary the voltages for latching and release.

[weedahoe]

Well I got everything connected, tested and it works very well. I will take some pics tomorrow of the switch placements. I did replace the small magnet they provide with a bigger and stronger one so it will not have to be so close to the switches.

Also, for anyone else wanting to follow, when I connected the white wire (neutral on the unit) to the blue/black (neutral switch) wire on the bike it would not detect neutral. I had to extend the wire back to the battery where the original neutral switch wire is at (solid blue) before it goes into the diode and it worked fine then. Just a little heads up.

Here are some updated pics.

http://sdrv.ms/PnCbw1

[weedahoe]

Just wanna update, Im really digging this gear indicator. It works really good

[ThatOtherGuy]

considering getting one as the wife surprised me and got her learners, so the GS500 is being set up for her to learn on.  a gear indicator would be helpful for her, but first I'll see how she goes.  I don't need it myself and she doesn't know they exist, so no pressure to actually get it.

[beRto]

Well I got everything connected, tested and it works very well. I will take some pics tomorrow of the switch placements. I did replace the small magnet they provide with a bigger and stronger one so it will not have to be so close to the switches.

Also, for anyone else wanting to follow, when I connected the white wire (neutral on the unit) to the blue/black (neutral switch) wire on the bike it would not detect neutral. I had to extend the wire back to the battery where the original neutral switch wire is at (solid blue) before it goes into the diode and it worked fine then. Just a little heads up.

Here are some updated pics.

http://sdrv.ms/PnCbw1

I can't see any of the pictures 

"Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage"

[weedahoe]

Anyone else having issues?

Try this link and tell me what you get

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=FB87BD8396FBFBF4!5908

[beRto]

Anyone else having issues?

Try this link and tell me what you get

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=FB87BD8396FBFBF4!5908

Sorry, same problem.

[weedahoe]

Hmm.....can you guys try a different browser for me because i can see it on my both mobiles and I would hate to post all those pics here. Guys complain about them being so big. Guess their still on 56k.....