Clutch will not engage!

802 305 · January 31, 2013, 05:27:38 PM

Hello all,
been a while since I posted here because everything had been working properly, until yesterday. I noticed previously that when I started the bike on the center stand and put in in 1st, the tire would spin slowly, especially when cold. I found out that's a naturally occurring phenomena due to the wet clutch, and that makes sense.
Today though, when I go to start the bike and put it in 1st, it bumps forward with the clutch engaged (pulled in). On the center stand, holding the clutch, with the bike in 1st, you cannot roll the wheel at all, and in second I can barely push the thing. I could ride, and even at lights the idle would not dip noticeably while in 1st with the clutch engaged.
So of course I went to adjust the clutch at all three locations according to the clymer manual - the barrel at the lever, top of the sprocket cover, and the pushrod adjustment on the side. I also cleaned off the pushrod itself, it was horribly dirty but I cleaned it down to its original dimensions... Well, the end result is nothing good, perhaps worse clutch engagement.
I heard some people dropped new engines in with different sprocket covers that have different sized pushrods, but this setup has been working for years now (i did swap the engine but not the sprocket cover). What could be happening here? The lever has appropriate slack, and good tension, but it feels like the pushrod is doing nada.
Any help is much appreciated

jacob92icu · January 31, 2013, 05:46:46 PM

New clutch?

mister · January 31, 2013, 05:52:55 PM

It is normally for the GS500 to do a small lurch forward when putting it into 1st from neutral when it is all cold. The higher-priced oil you use the less this will happen. As I went up the oil ladder from Motul 3100, to 5100 to 300v and now Mobile 1 Racing 4t, the less this happened. When cold with 3100, I could not push the bike around in 1st with the clutch pulled in. With 300v and Mobile 1, I can.

So... how is your oil?

adidasguy · January 31, 2013, 06:08:14 PM

Start in neutral.

If cold or not used for a while, the clutch plates can stick together.

Start in neutral. Then after a few seconds, things will loosen up and be OK.

Could be time for an oil change. On Phenix, when things were sticky, I took out the clutch plates and cleaned them all in kerosene then dipped in fresh oil and put them back. No more sticky clutch. Prior owner of dono rbike for the motor in Phenix did not take care of it so probably everything was gummy.

802 305 · February 01, 2013, 08:53:24 AM

Thanks for the responses, adidasguy and mister... jacob not so much

You guys were right on. While I do start in neutral, I noticed this while cleaning the chain on the center stand (im lazy and start the bike, throw it in 1st, and wipe the chain as it goes by) I do this every few days, since living down in Key West it is sandy and salty as hell. And usually warm, although it has been a bit colder recently.

As the bike warmed up (even just a couple minutes) the clutch worked better and better (held the power off the wheel) and when it was hot, would barely spin the tire in 1st on the center stand with the clutch engaged.

As far as oil goes, it could definitely go for a change.. Been using Klotz 4t full synth motorcycle oil and K&N filter, which if not in the range of Royal Purple is at least decent... but it is dirty. Been about since late September

Threw some seafoam in the crankcase and rode for a bit this morning, maybe that will help clear out the sludge. (I know there's a debate on this forum at this very moment about seafoam, so lets leave that out for now) And im going to change the oil after it cools down a bit. I'll let you guys know how it works out.
Thanks again

weedahoe · February 01, 2013, 09:02:09 AM

Here are two pics of two same truck engines. Both are 04s and both have close to the same mileage. This guy broke a valve spring and I was helping him with it but the point here is to notice the carbon and crud build up in the head (and who knows where else). He uses 87 octane and standard dyno oil. The picture of the clean head is mine and from my truck. I use 93 octane (partly because Im custom tuned for it) and Royal Purple oil.

BTW, I have never used ANY oil treatments, additives, sea foam or anything else

802 305 · February 01, 2013, 09:15:10 AM

Wow weedahoe, that's definitely a stark comparison. Use good oil!
I would bet the reason you have less crud is the high quality synthetic oil you use, probably coupled with more frequent oil changes (I bet you change the filter every time with a high grade filter, too) since your mindset is to use the best.
I doubt the 93 octane has anything to do with it unless its ethanol free but who knows... I know people who put 91 into their unmodified low compression sedans, and I reaaaalllyy doubt that does anything at all for them.
Anyway, going out to change the oil. Should have cooled enough by now

weedahoe · February 01, 2013, 09:20:36 AM

I change every 6k miles or so. Synth is made to go longer. Your heads get hot because the combustion chambers are right under them. Hell, the valves are are there in the head. So a lot of your cheaper oils will get too hot and burn in the heads and thus, the crud and black crap. IDK why guys wanna cheap out on oils and fuels in bikes. Hell, its not like they have to replace the 8 quarts or oil like in my engine @ $9 each or the 17 qrts in the trans @ $12 each or the 3 qrts in my rear diff @ $15 each

BTW, the trucks tank is 35 gallons versus the 5 in my bike

3 qrts in a bike engine is nothing. SO CHANGE IT REGULARLY

jacob92icu · February 01, 2013, 09:24:07 AM

So you put thicker oil in and it worked? Sorry i just don't have much experience with clutch problems.

802 305 · February 01, 2013, 10:06:50 AM

I don't know where your're getting royal purple for $9 but I want to go there! I paid $13.50/quart for Klotz. But I definitely agree - just buy the gdamn synthetic, it only costs maybe $50 more per year! However, I wouldn't put anything over 87 octane into my GS unless it has an ignition advancer. That would be a big waste of cash. Don't get me wrong, I don't go to discount gas pumps, but I don't put in 91 unless it is ethanol free (all the marinas have it, and I work on boats).

Back to the topic at hand, no jacob I didn't put thicker oil in - that would make the clutch stick to the final drive more than it does now, right? I just put the seafoam in, drove it, let it cool for a little, changed the oil with the same Klotz as before.

Ok so i've only started it momentarily, but the rear wheel is definitely being driven, albeit not as hard. Could be I have some minorly warped plates. Gonna drive it a bit and get back to you guys. Thanks for the input

skunkteeth · February 01, 2013, 11:16:18 AM

First time I changed oil I used Castrol Motorcycle synthetic because it was on sale.

The next time after reading about it on this forum I bought a 5 qt jug of Rotella 15W-40 from wallyworld (12 bucks). I didn't notice much difference with my bike, after doing a valve check after a total of 8000 miles with the oil the top is just as squeaky clean as before.

I change the oil every 3000 miles and the filter with every other oil change. I think the most important thing with oil, no matter what you use, is make sure it is full and change it. That is all that matters.

weedahoe · February 01, 2013, 11:22:45 AM

$9 for RP is truck engine oil. RP in bike oil is more. The point was that the total for maintfor a bike is usually a lot less than a vehicle so there should not be a reason why anyone should cheap out.

jacob92icu · February 01, 2013, 11:53:34 AM

Quote from: 802 305 on February 01, 2013, 10:06:50 AM

Back to the topic at hand, no jacob I didn't put thicker oil in - that would make the clutch stick to the final drive more than it does now, right? I just put the seafoam in, drove it, let it cool for a little, changed the oil with the same Klotz as before.

I would say the hell with cost and buy some high brand synthetic oil if its really giving you this much of a problem. Just remember, you dont want to thin/light weight of an oil because it could not be rated for the engine and heat up and dissipate energy into heat, aka evaporate.

802 305 · February 01, 2013, 01:06:07 PM

Anyway after the oil change it is running great, even starting better so i'm thinking it was overdue. Hopefully my mistake is your lesson! I didn't even do that many miles, but I do a ton of short, hard trips. Oil getting hot and cold frequently causes it to lose its lubricating properties among other things... maybe crud up more too.

The tire movement is still stiff with the clutch engaged in 1st when "cold" (75 degrees outside temp) but i'm not worried about it too much because when it heats up, no prob.
Thanks for the help all

jacob92icu · February 01, 2013, 01:15:49 PM

Congrats! If it ever gets any tougher, I believe you have already said you adjusted it, but there is a screw right behind the clutch lever that you can loosen or tighten how much cable the lever pulls. You can try adjusting that out further.

P.S. 75 degrees!?!? You lucky...

Happy fishing!

sledge · February 01, 2013, 01:26:18 PM

All wet clutches are prone to sticking, especialy the back ones and it makes sense to take the discs out and clean them periodically. Its also a good idea to shuffle them around in the pack when putting it all back together, this evens out wear.

You also need to look for wear on the inner and outter hubs where the tags sit. If those edges develop ridges the discs wont move freely and it will in turn effect the operation of the clutch.

An extreme example

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Clutch will not engage!