Filtering?

[ThatOtherGuy]

unfortunately not, its an interpretation, the traffic regulations are all you can rely on and your interpretation of them.  the giveaway is that they talk about filtering, which is not defined in the regulations.  when I had my discussion with the copper last year he kept trying to get me to say I was filtering, I just kept saying I wasn't as there is no definition for that term in the regulations so I could not say I was doing something that does not exist in the law.  I asked him to find it and off course he couldn't so how can I admit to something that does not exist?

[codajastal]

Ok I'm now officially confused


Sent from my iPad

[BockinBboy]

I realize this is pretty much an Aussie thread, but... I'll fill in some blanks for the U.S. regarding Illinois...

In my state, lane sharing/filtering/etc... is not directly outlined in the law.  In the motorcycle handbook, it has a short paragraph saying that it is unsafe, but does not say it is illegal.  However, most lane laws are interpretted by safety of the various lane manuevers... so an officer can still ding you no problem because there are other laws regarding lane usage and safety that would inevitably deem your manuever as an unsafe driving violation.  You might be able to get away with it, but if you are stopped and issued a ticket for unsafe driving, or improper lane usage you won't win in court... Unless you can word in your favor the only two mentions of two-wheeled vehicles in the vehicle code regarding passing and lane usage listed in Chapter 11 Article VII... and you would have to prove that your manuever was safer than any another alternative... but I wouldn't bank on it, as I have never heard of anyone getting away with it after being issued a ticket.  The general concensus is don't try it... and motorcyclists as a group do not in Illinios... in the MSF courses, they tell you don't do it and explain how you can be issued a ticket.

The two mentions in the vehicle code are (paraphrased slightly):

1.)  Two-wheeled vehicles cannot pass a vehicle on the right hand side after passing on the left unless there is open, unobstructed paved lane to the right of the vehicle being passed...
Basically, you can't weave in and out of vehicles through traffic on a motorcycle...

2.)  Two-wheeled vehicles cannot pass a vehicle on the right hand side with no less than 8 feet of unobstructed pavement to the right of the vehicle...
Basically, this is referring to safe passing on the right through driver blind spots... you cannot enter a blindspot on the right of a vehicle without 8 feet to manuever safely into a mirror zone or out of the way if the driver doesn't see you...

A buddy of mine rode a ninja 650 in college, and he was actually ticketed for this... A driver was signaling left in front of him, but had not slowed for turning yet at the next intersection.  There was an unoccupied construction area, with a small cone setup in the right half of the right hand lane... the rider sped up with a rev in the engine (annoyed by the driver signaling forever and getting the attention of authority) and passed on the right, in the right hand lane that had the small cones covering a hole on the right half of the lane... there was a cop at the intersection in which the driver was turning left onto, and that cop saw it... Cop must have had a real bad day, but he pulled him over and issued him a ticket actually citing the obstruction in the lane he used to pass on the right hand side of the vehicle... there was not any merge left or construction signs prior to the marked hole in the road, but it was clearly, and visibly marked obstruction in the road... he tried to fight it, but this scenario almost directly followed the vehicle code violation, and he entered a blind spot with no way out..

It's super frustrating, but he was wrong to manuever the way he did from a safety standpoint, just sucks that he was actually issued a ticket for it, as the most any other cop would do is warn him and tell him to ride safer if they even would pull him over at all...  I suppose you can equate it to the seatbelt laws... you'll get ticket for not using it, and its enforced for your own safety... just as this 8 feet passing on the right is enforced for your own safety, and you'll get ticketed for not giving yourself those 8 feet...

- Bboy

[ToneZone]

I live in CA and with only a few hundred miles under my belt i'm too chicken to filter or split

[BockinBboy]

I would say that you are not too chicken, but too wise to filter  ... As a new rider, you definitely should not try it... you need to get the skills to manuever your bike before you even think about manuevering your bike within feet of cages and other dangerous variables you cannot control out on the road.

- Bboy

[ThatOtherGuy]

cods, its actually fairly simple, use the advisory information from pamphlets and websites as a guide, but remember the law trumps all of that.  people including the police, yourself, lawyers, government departments etc can interpret the law and write down their interpretations and publish them, but they are just opinion, again another word I emphasised when discussing my situation with this copper last year.  I emphasised his interpretation of the law and my actions was his opinion and not fact, just as my interpretation was my opinion.  The only opinion that counts is the judge, but even they can be wrong and you can appeal if you feel such.

[codajastal]

cods, its actually fairly simple, use the advisory information from pamphlets and websites as a guide, but remember the law trumps all of that.  people including the police, yourself, lawyers, government departments etc can interpret the law and write down their interpretations and publish them, but they are just opinion, again another word I emphasised when discussing my situation with this copper last year.  I emphasised his interpretation of the law and my actions was his opinion and not fact, just as my interpretation was my opinion.  The only opinion that counts is the judge, but even they can be wrong and you can appeal if you feel such.

Still confused?
So can you legally do it in QLD or not?
Can you shoot up the middle of traffic at a stopped red light or up the left side in same situation?

[Janx101]

short answer for all of Australia... NO you cant do it..

they have been trialing a filtering rules system in SYD CBD recently for peak hour and such .. which is a positive sign ..

i would think they have thoughts of similar trials elsewhere .. but once the bureaucrats have hold of something it becomes a inter-generational thing usually!!

i've seen filtering while traffic stopped at light .. with plenty of room... blind eye by the Bronze .. same but limited room , then a squidly full power takeoff .. noticed by the Bronze!!! very much noticed!! ..

also seen bikes heading down the left fog line on freeway while traffic was at standstill from accident .. nice calm slow progress by bikes .. Blind Eye by the Bronze ... however a few minutes later when another couple bikes came down the right side fogline .. at high speed (80+ .. not FAST but traffic WAS stopped) .. Bronze pulled them ...

thinking the overall concept is 'permissable' .. so long as you dont draw TOO MUCH ATTENTION to yourself by being a dickhead at the same time? ... and as T.O.G keeps mentioning... if you do it.. and do get pulled and questioned.. you need to have a silver tongue!! , (at least) SOUND like you know completely what the rules are .. or ARE NOT! .. be calm and polite with 'the nice officer' and hope like hell!!..

Everyone EVER that ive heard was lippy/mouthy/smartass to the po-po .. they got delayed longer AND ticketed anyway! ..

i personally have done all slow and steady left side fogline in stopped traffic moves.. and have got just a glance here and there .. mates on same ride were Zippy McZipster!! ... they had cars swerve at or move to block them.. doors opened in their path .. questions from officials.. and got to the next checkpoint all annoyed and pissed off... I pootled up couple mins later having had a nice day!!... 

LEGALLY NO .. NOT YET .. Morally?.. hmmm maybe?

[codajastal]

Oh well, like I said before I do it all the time and have never been pulled up for it BUT I always do it slowly and carefully and dont act like a squidly.

[slipperymongoose]

I think what's being said is it doesn't exist but if you are pulled over they will try to make you admit to it which then they have a choice of fines to ping u with

[wayne242]

State side, this is the best post i have read on the subject:

Lane Splitting Law Is A Legal Grey Area
By Yaroslav Shakula

There is no absolutely universal legal view on lane splitting, because lane splitting law varies from each state to the next. Even within a single state, lane splitting law tends to be far more complex than many of the other kinds of legislation that restrict how drivers and motorcycle riders can behave. Lane splitting in California is legal in many circumstances, but not in all circumstances, so whether a biker is cited for illegal lane splitting in California has as much to do with what kind of mood a police officer is in as it does with the realities of lane splitting law. Lane splitting law is one of the greyest areas of ambiguity in modern laws that govern the safe use of vehicles, so it is little wonder then that there is a lot of confusion about lane splitting law among driver, motorcycle riders, and even among lawyers and other law professionals.

Even in states where lane splitting is legal, most motorcycle riders who are concerned with being very prudent about their safety and making sure that they are within the confines of the law avoid lane splitting at all because it is such a grey area in terms of law and in terms of safety. Lane splitting law is complex, but the most important decision that a motorcycle rider makes about lane splitting shouldn't be whether it is legal in a given situation, but rather whether it is safe. Lane splitting is often very dangerous, and even in the cleanest and clearest of circumstances lane splitting can lead to an accident if things go even slightly awry.

Although lane splitting is legal in some states like California, California bikers might find it prudent to take a cue from other states on this matter. The fact that lane splitting is technically legal in California under most circumstances does not mean that it is a safe practice. One of the most dangerous things about lane splitting is that many automobile drivers do not know how to safely interact with motorcycle riders, so lane splitting can make drivers panic and do things that are unpredictable and often cause injury or even death to motorcycle riders who were technically behaving within their legal rights. It is important to remember that legal lane splitting isn't always safe lane splitting, so although it is important to follow lane splitting law it is even more important to follow your common sense when deciding whether to lane split on your bike or not.

There is a lot of debate among the motorcycle riding community and among drivers about whether current lane splitting law is satisfactory. Some people feel that current lane splitting law is too loose and not restrictive enough about lane splitting. There are even individuals and groups calling for a national ban on lane splitting under any circumstances. However, there are also plenty of individuals and groups who believe that lane splitting can be safely practiced, and that there should be more of an effort to educate motorcycle riders and divers about how to split lanes safely without causing accidents. Whatever your personal views on lane splitting may be, it is almost certainly true that lane splitting law is one of the most complex areas of law surrounding the practices of drivers and motorcycle riders.

Yaroslav Shakula is the editor-in-chief of I Hate This site which is probably the best place for people to vent their feelings and reviews on almost anything.

[ThatOtherGuy]

I think what's being said is it doesn't exist but if you are pulled over they will try to make you admit to it which then they have a choice of fines to ping u with

That's basically it, they will try to ping you with a "S140 No overtaking unless safe to do so" violation.  I objected saying it was safe and it was only his opinion, not fact that it was not.  When I beat him on that front (he even tried to change his story on what he observed), he then tried on the "S141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle" violation.  I said that was not possible as it was firstly legal to do and he had already conceded my overtaking was safe.  So even though he wanted to issue a ticket I argued successfully that he couldn't and enough so that if it went to court, his own words would have the ticket quashed.

[wayne242]

I think what's being said is it doesn't exist but if you are pulled over they will try to make you admit to it which then they have a choice of fines to ping u with

That's basically it, they will try to ping you with a "S140 No overtaking unless safe to do so" violation.  I objected saying it was safe and it was only his opinion, not fact that it was not.  When I beat him on that front (he even tried to change his story on what he observed), he then tried on the "S141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle" violation.  I said that was not possible as it was firstly legal to do and he had already conceded my overtaking was safe.  So even though he wanted to issue a ticket I argued successfully that he couldn't and enough so that if it went to court, his own words would have the ticket quashed.

Most will just give you a ticket and let court deal with it. After all an officers word is held higher then yours our mine. Which is why you rarely see a motovloger on utube get a ticket etc (they have video). Personally getting a cam for my helmet later down the road when its full blown riding time.

[ThatOtherGuy]

I think what's being said is it doesn't exist but if you are pulled over they will try to make you admit to it which then they have a choice of fines to ping u with

That's basically it, they will try to ping you with a "S140 No overtaking unless safe to do so" violation.  I objected saying it was safe and it was only his opinion, not fact that it was not.  When I beat him on that front (he even tried to change his story on what he observed), he then tried on the "S141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle" violation.  I said that was not possible as it was firstly legal to do and he had already conceded my overtaking was safe.  So even though he wanted to issue a ticket I argued successfully that he couldn't and enough so that if it went to court, his own words would have the ticket quashed.

Most will just give you a ticket and let court deal with it. After all an officers word is held higher then yours our mine. Which is why you rarely see a motovloger on utube get a ticket etc (they have video). Personally getting a cam for my helmet later down the road when its full blown riding time.

You'll only get a ticket if they stick to one story and they think they have the only recording of the exchange.  Trust me, best way to piss off a copper is visually show them you are recording the exchange you are having, you'll have them on their best behaviour when they realise they can be caught out.  This copper I encountered tried to change his story, I called him on it, he realised and backed off.  Maybe I was lucky.  But one thing you should always do is record the conversation, it is your best weapon and your best defense.  Best part is if it goes to court, they have to provide you with their recording and every piece of information they wish to introduce in court, but you are not required to give them a single thing.

Oh and their word carries no more weight than your own, they are just more practised at it than most people.  They develop their story and stick to it.  As long as you do the same it is just their word against your own.

[wayne242]

I think what's being said is it doesn't exist but if you are pulled over they will try to make you admit to it which then they have a choice of fines to ping u with

That's basically it, they will try to ping you with a "S140 No overtaking unless safe to do so" violation.  I objected saying it was safe and it was only his opinion, not fact that it was not.  When I beat him on that front (he even tried to change his story on what he observed), he then tried on the "S141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle" violation.  I said that was not possible as it was firstly legal to do and he had already conceded my overtaking was safe.  So even though he wanted to issue a ticket I argued successfully that he couldn't and enough so that if it went to court, his own words would have the ticket quashed.

Most will just give you a ticket and let court deal with it. After all an officers word is held higher then yours our mine. Which is why you rarely see a motovloger on utube get a ticket etc (they have video). Personally getting a cam for my helmet later down the road when its full blown riding time.

You'll only get a ticket if they stick to one story and they think they have the only recording of the exchange.  Trust me, best way to piss off a copper is visually show them you are recording the exchange you are having, you'll have them on their best behaviour when they realise they can be caught out.  This copper I encountered tried to change his story, I called him on it, he realised and backed off.  Maybe I was lucky.  But one thing you should always do is record the conversation, it is your best weapon and your best defense.  Best part is if it goes to court, they have to provide you with their recording and every piece of information they wish to introduce in court, but you are not required to give them a single thing.

Oh and their word carries no more weight than your own, they are just more practised at it than most people.  They develop their story and stick to it.  As long as you do the same it is just their word against your own.

No, The're word holds more weight. So if you don't have proof its going in the're favor(its an honor system). Hint why i said i plan on getting a cam later for my helmet. However i KNOW not every cop is dishonest and an a-hole, but i do Acknowledge there is a few out there. Mostly if you encounter an a-hole cop, you can probably thank the person he stopped be for you.

[ThatOtherGuy]

Well I won a case with me (my word) against two cops, a cops wife and her two daughters and the cops recording of the exchange between us which they had cut the threats from.  So I will agree to disagree that their word holds more weight.

[wayne242]

Well I won a case with me (my word) against two cops, a cops wife and her two daughters and the cops recording of the exchange between us which they had cut the threats from.  So I will agree to disagree that their word holds more weight.

....... you HAD video/recordings to back up your statements which you clearly said. I'm talking about word vs word with out having PROOF, i thought "I plan on getting a cam later" hinted at that fact. Overall its just open discussion, I'm not disagreeing that you did not get a ticket etc but rather in general for those who have no proof, in that event the officers word his held higher on the honor system.

[ThatOtherGuy]

Well I won a case with me (my word) against two cops, a cops wife and her two daughters and the cops recording of the exchange between us which they had cut the threats from.  So I will agree to disagree that their word holds more weight.

....... you HAD video/recordings to back up your statements which you clearly said. I'm talking about word vs word with out having PROOF, i thought "I plan on getting a cam later" hinted at that fact. Overall its just open discussion, I'm not disagreeing that you did not get a ticket etc but rather in general for those who have no proof, in that event the officers word his held higher on the honor system.

I had nothing but my word, the police had their audio recording which they had altered ie left of the end of the recording, it only supported their version of what happened.  This case (it was a criminal matter by the way) was a completely different situation to the filtering discussion I earlier referred to.  It was this case that lead to me deciding to recording all conversations with police.