Turbo GS

[danci1973]

Hmm, Kawasaki Z750 is using 34mm throttle bodies... If they are individual they could be usefull.

D.

[Blueknyt]

i know honda produced the CX500 turbo,  500 twin, dont remember what they used for fuel deliveery,  what about making a plug to take the place of the slide/needle but not extending down infront of the butterfly, caping off the "Jets" effectively making the carbs   JUST throttlebodies, and then mounting 2 injectors in a angled plenum box.

[bcutrufelli]

I hope somebody does this and we dont just keep talkign about it

[bruteforce]

Hi Guys,
Although this is quite an old thread I found it irresistible to respond, I even became a member for this purpose.

I've built a Suzuki GSX 1168 Turbo a while ago, (which is technically really double a GS500) and solved the carburation issues you people have perfectly. And no, the solution was invented by someone else, so don't turn me into some kind of guru cos' I'm not. See my webpage for full report.

The basics of a turbo are quite clear to you. Put a turbo on, build a plenum, connect them, then what?
:dunno:
You need a fuel pump and regulator to keep the fuelpressure of the carbs above boostpressure. I used these off of a Yamaha 650 turboseca, they are all over ebay and cost next to nothing.
You have to make a connection to the inlet of the plenum with the open end of the tube facing the airstream, so you get a ram-air boost compensation. This connects to the T of the floatbowls and pressurises them. You will want to replace the o-rings on the T-s because they will leak making the engine run really bad.
Now, you can run the bike with standard ignition, compression and even standard neeldes and jets. Put an A/F meter in the exhaust to monitor fuelling, you will see a slightly rich mixture, which is good. Put a turbo on it off of the same Yamaha XJ turbo if you can get one or maybe one off of a Ford Fiesta RS turbo (a Garrett T2) and run it no higher than 7 psi boost. Now you have a bike that will run as sweet as a babies behind and make serious power.

Greetz, Marco.
http://home.wanadoo.nl/marcovandevelde/turbo%20GSX.htm

[turbos4life]

need to dispel some myths that SOME PEOPLE on forums are pounding into your head. peep this:


"turbo boost isn't the same as increasing compresson in the cylinder...turbo engines don't require race gas but engines with high cylinder compression have to use race gas"

-what the hell ever gave you that idea? Think about that realistically and see if it makes sense? This is why forums are dangerous. People who are stupid listen to people like you that don't know what they are talking about. If you want to learn so you can spout bullshit, read a book!!! Learn the stuff, don't say it if you don't know....

Assume = Ass U Me

"you don't have to run race gas to increase turbo boost....i'm not a turbo guru but i know some thing about turbos....me and my friend took his VOLVO turbo and increased the boost from 5 to 24 PSI and he was running 91 octane gas....it would backfire from time to time but it ran good"

-Lol, aside from the knock sensor retarding timing and the fact that it probably has an electronic boost controller to let off bost after 7 or 8 psi when knock is detected (if you were looking at the stock guage just shut up righ now, you weren't even running 24PSI) you won't make any power running that far out of the efficiency range of the turbo, in fact you will probably make LESS horsepower heating the turbo up so much and doing all kinds of horrible things to it. Shame on you!!!!

"Two things. One: compression is compression. Since turbos provide pressure by compressing the flow of air, this must be multiplied by the engine compression to get true compression. Ex: a turbo blowing 15 psi gives a compression of ~ 2:1. This goes into an engine that compresses the mix 9:1. Therefore, the true compression is 2/1 x 9/1 = 18/1 or 18:1 compression.

Since this vapor pressure of fuels is dependent upon the absolute pressure, and atmospheric is 14.7 then 18:1 compression gives a before ignition pressure of roughly 260 psi absolute. AND using the approximation of the Ideal gas law (yes I know air is not ideal, but close enough) this also gives a temperature of the mix, prior to ignition, of approximately 600 deg F. This is localized temperature within the gas cloud, and is only an ESTIMATE. I am not going to get into an arguement about the Gauss-Seidel iteration process required to find the true temperature and pressure.......Whew!. "

-Just flat out wrong! you forgot to take into account the turbo when you wrote that. Hmm.... lets see! different turbos have different compressor wheels efficiency ranges (re: PSI and engine size). TD05-12A 15PSI = 320CFM TD05-19C = something like 600CFM at 15PSI.
Dammit, RTFM!!!!!!!
Dammit, RTFM!!!!!!!
Dammit, RTFM!!!!!!!
Dammit, RTFM!!!!!!!

"Also the volvo was water cooled wasn't it. Air cooled is basically like playiing roulette compared to water cooled. Steady temp, no uneven hot/cold spots and a well defined range of temperature. Cool. Srinath."

-Nope, F watercooling. water does not compress like gases do, you get enough CCs of water in there and your piston will stop moving, but your crankshaft won't (get the picture)? A good intercooler such as a PWR unit will do much better on a turbo engine than just water cooling.,


"Ah. Well....I'm a mechanical engineer with a specialy in dynamic systems of pneumatics and hydraulics. I work for an Aerospace company as a manufacturing engineer. But, mainly I trained under Proffessor Bob Woods at University of Texas at Arlington. An outstanding professor with an drive for racing. Under his guide, the UTA racing team has won more of the Formula SAE competitions than the rest of the world combined.  "

-Did you say you had a degree? Jesus, I learned all this from reading books and working on turbo cars. Wait, you work on hydraulics not turbo cars.... oh yeah... that makes sense why you know so much about turbos!!! (not shooting on you, just showing people that you can't listen to forums)

"In a thermodynamic sense, heat and pressure are interchangable. A turbocharger thus exchanges pressure and heat of the spent exhaust gases for pressure and heat of the incoming gases. When doing this turbochargers can commonly see efficiencies of 50 to 60%. Quite high. "

- hope you bought that turbo off ebay and you plan on getting it rebuilt! I 15 year old turbo volvo sees higher efficiency ranges than that (funny thing is you make it sound as though this efficiency range is a constant however it depends on the PSI created by the turbo and what RPM the motor is at as well as the actual flow of motor components and the CFM needed to keep the motor running at the specified RPM)

"The higher the Octane the hotter the burn = NO. High Octane does not burn at higher temperature. In fact, High Octane fuels have a greater portion of the "light fractions" of fuel, or in other words, have a greater portion of the fuels that evaporate faster, thereby igniting at lower temperatures.

These ligher portions are known mainly as the "Aromatics" because they are the ones you normally smell the most. They increase octane by vaporizing faster and allowing the burn to occur faster. "

- you contradicted your previous statements about high octane fuel. this is the opposite of what it was intended to do. The high octane fuel is made specifically to be HARDER to ignite inhibiting pre-ignition aka DETONATION which is the *only* factor that will melt pistons

*exceptions being things such as not putting oil in your car and running 25 psi on a turbo that stops being efficient after 15psi

"Not really no. The compression is defined by the shape and dimentions of the combustion chamber (stroke, bore, crown and head essentialy). That volume doesn't change. You can change the density of the mixture going in with a turbo, super charger or other things, but this is not related to compression in this sense. Higher compression simply means that the pre-ignition temp is higher and thus easier to ignite and that all of the fuel molecules are as close together and ready to ignite each other (flame front and flame propagation). "

-wrong again man..... compression has NOTHING to do with the "pre-ignition temp" being higher and eaiser to ignite! A turbo is an air pump which delivers a large amount of compresed air allowing you to burn more fuel in a (hopefully) controlled way, although if people keep listeing to you, i am going to dive out of the way whenever i see a bike on this forum going by.

"Wrencher - that makes sense to me- But...

A turbo/super charger is a forced induction system. It's purpose is to provide (ie, force) more air into the engine. If more air is added to the equation, then more gas is added too (espescially if we are refering to an 8 to 15 psi boost). That would increase the volume of gas in the cylinder and immediately increase the pressure felt within the cylinder.

So it seemed to me that with the added gas in the cylinder we are increasing the compression ratio (more gas in the same amount of space = higher pressure). So I think I just used the wrong wording.... let's try:

"So by using a turbo we are increasing the number of molecules (potential booms) in the cylinder. As a result the compression ratio increases. As compression increases, pressure increases. As pressure increases temperature increases. As temp increases the risk of preignition increase requiring the use of a higher octane fuel..."

or something.

Seriously, thanks for the input,

Dathan"

-Beautiful, starting to get it....

"The great thing about turbos is that we CAN vary the amount of boost. We don't always want to run 15 psi, when 5 will do. "

- if you only understood a turbo you would see why this statement is just plain incorrect. Sure you can run 5 psi of boost, but you will see a 30efficiency range versus 60-70 at 10psi (depending on turbos)

" The waste gate is controlled by boost feedback from the plenum. I have put a controlled leak into the feedback loop. This controlled leak makes the turbo think there is less pressure than there actually is in the plenum. This controlled leak is called a Dial-a-boost. "

-LOL, ever hear of boost spike?


I am sorry, i CANNOT read anymore. It's hurting my head from hearing so much crap spewed from other forums. If you want help making a turbo system work let me know. I can do it for you in a jiffy and it won't be engineered by someone who got their degree online! LOL. if you have any questions or flames, PM me so i can help you.

this place is like initial D, you can't downshift into every turn 50 times! there are only 4-6 gears!!!

[sprint_9]

Wow that was a long post.  First part seemed interesting but Im to tired to read all that, lol.

[Mk1inCali]

I understand your response.  I agree there is a whole lot of waste that is inherent in the very structure of a forum.  Get 100 people together, 95 won't know whether what the other 5 are saying is correct or not.



"Also the volvo was water cooled wasn't it. Air cooled is basically like playiing roulette compared to water cooled. Steady temp, no uneven hot/cold spots and a well defined range of temperature. Cool. Srinath."

-Nope, F watercooling. water does not compress like gases do, you get enough CCs of water in there and your piston will stop moving, but your crankshaft won't (get the picture)? A good intercooler such as a PWR unit will do much better on a turbo engine than just water cooling.,


I agree with you on the water vs air intercooling, but Srinath there was talking about a WATER-COOLED BLOCK.  NOT water injection/INTERcooling vs air to air methods.

Just thought I would point out that Srinath was in fact correct in his statements.


EDIT:Fixed grammatical errors.