running out of gas/reserve tank question

[CCmatters]

Oooook... WELL.... I found something out today but before I mention that I have to update you all on what happened AFTER the bike fell over.  I drained the tank, changed the fuel filters, changed the oil, and changed the oil filter and then put fresh gas in it.  When I was putting the cap back on the oil filter compartment on the front of the engine between the header I sheared off one of the studs so I took it to a shop and had another one installed and he said he topped off the oil.

Well... I just checked my dip stick when I got home and smelled it and it DID smell a little like gas, so how do I fix the gunk up issue or the petcocks or whatever(remember, i'm new to bikes haha)?  And also the bike is LOW on oil for some reason so that would explain the tap.  I hope it didn't cause any permanent internal damage riding it yesterday low on oil. :/

[MarkB]

That made me laugh, its far safer to fill up whilst sat on the bike and you are far less likely to spill it as 1, you are in control of the bike and 2 you can get more in with the tank level thats a fact. You point out that you accidentally overfill the tank and spill onto the hot parts of the exhaust/engine, the fuel may ignite causing you to get burnt/die or whatever. So how does sitting on the bike and standing 2 inches away from it make a difference? If your tank of fuel ignites it wont just be a fire it will be an explosion so being 2 inches away will make no odds. I trust myself more than a side/centre stand.

The rationale is probably along these lines:
1) It's less likely that the spilled and potentially flaming gas gets on your clothing if you're not seated on the bike.
2) It's less likely that you are going to drop the flaming bike with it's full and open gas tank if you aren't sitting on it when it ignites.
3) You certainly can get away from the bike quicker if you are already off of it.

A full tank of gas won't explode since there is no air in the tank.

[yamahonkawazuki]

If you're new to riding, you might be inserting the gas pump nozzle too far into the filler neck when you fill up (like with a car).  To get the maximum mileage, you need to fill the tank to the bottom of the filler neck.

+1

Its also possible that your reserve and main fuel lines are switched. Although, that doesn't explain the extra fuel consumption.

+1

However, there should be enough fuel to be able to run on reserve if he was filling it like a car or on the kick stand, and the fuel lines being switched would make it not run correctly, at least it did to mine when I got it from the PO

Being gravity fed, it will run out of fuel, before tank is dry. if it happens again, set it on prime.

[ThatOtherGuy]

....  Try keeping the bike upright instead (which is easiest to do while sitting on it).....

Depending on where you live in the world, you may not be allowed to do this (its illegal in Australia).  Most pump attendants will not activate the pump for two basic reasons  Theft being one, but most important it is just dangerous.  If you accidentally overfill the tank and spill onto the hot parts of the exhaust/engine, the fuel may ignite leaving you with some quite horrific burns to some very delicate areas of your body, if you aren't dead already, though you may wish you were dead.

If you must have the bike upright, use the centre stand, that is what it is there for.  Though IMO, it is easier to get more in the tank resting sideways as the tank rests at an angle meaning more air can escape from under the rim.

That made me laugh, its far safer to fill up whilst sat on the bike and you are far less likely to spill it as 1, you are in control of the bike and 2 you can get more in with the tank level thats a fact. You point out that you accidentally overfill the tank and spill onto the hot parts of the exhaust/engine, the fuel may ignite causing you to get burnt/die or whatever. So how does sitting on the bike and standing 2 inches away from it make a difference? If your tank of fuel ignites it wont just be a fire it will be an explosion so being 2 inches away will make no odds. I trust myself more than a side/centre stand.
...

A tank of fuel will not explode spontaneously.  You've watched and believe too much from the movies unfortunately.  To get an explosion you need the right fuel air mix, you know sort of like a combustion engine does.  Fuel spilling onto hot engine parts will find the right mix to combust out in the open, fuel inside the tank will not find a necessary fuel/air mix to explode.

If you stand over the tank and spill fuel, your first reaction will be to flinch away from it and you will almost certainly drop your bike doing that.  So when you go to park your bike for any reason do you stand over it holding it up because you don't trust the stands?  I can assure you that many engineers have spent a lot of time designing them to be a little more reliable than you are at holding a bike up.  If a bike falls over when on the stand, it is usually operator error.  Sounds like you may need to learn how to use the stand properly if you have that little faith in it whilst doing something as straightforward as filling the tank.

As for stating something as fact, can you provide evidence to back that fact?  If not then it is only your opinion as was my comment on the matter.

[adidasguy]

Let's not forget that when you park your bike on the side stand, you leave it in gear so it won't roll off or get pushed off.
1st gear is your parking brake.
Never leave on the center stand in neutral.

[Kerry]

Hmmm.  Didn't mean to start a "firestorm". 

In 50,000 miles I have always filled the tank while sitting on the bike.  I give the task my full attention, almost never pull the pump trigger all the way in, and spend a lot of time near the end of the process at the lowest possible flow setting.

The time or two that I "overfilled" the tank, my reaction was to release the pump trigger ... and allow the extra fuel (a few milliliters?) to drain through the built-in tube to the ground.

I have no problem with anyone who uses their sidestand to fill up; I was just sharing the tips that have given me the most miles per tank of fuel.

Enjoy!

[Janx101]

Hmmm.  Didn't mean to start a "firestorm". 

well then!! .. you Sir! are a rabble rouser! .. a agent provocateur!! .. a Witch-Hunter!!!   

now will you take some time in the naughty corner? .. or will it be 100 lines on the chalkboard of "I will not make inflammatory comments (pun intended) .... like most of the Aussies!!" ...

bahahahahhahahahah 

[mjj4]

...
A tank of fuel will not explode spontaneously.  You've watched and believe too much from the movies unfortunately.  To get an explosion you need the right fuel air mix, you know sort of like a combustion engine does.  Fuel spilling onto hot engine parts will find the right mix to combust out in the open, fuel inside the tank will not find a necessary fuel/air mix to explode.

If you stand over the tank and spill fuel, your first reaction will be to flinch away from it and you will almost certainly drop your bike doing that.  So when you go to park your bike for any reason do you stand over it holding it up because you don't trust the stands?  I can assure you that many engineers have spent a lot of time designing them to be a little more reliable than you are at holding a bike up.  If a bike falls over when on the stand, it is usually operator error.  Sounds like you may need to learn how to use the stand properly if you have that little faith in it whilst doing something as straightforward as filling the tank.

As for stating something as fact, can you provide evidence to back that fact?  If not then it is only your opinion as was my comment on the matter.

A tank of fuel can explode especially as i never mentioned it was full to the brim with no air inside. Either way the vapour will cause the flash fire and it doesnt matter whether you are stood next to or sat on the bike you probably wont be wearing gloves and your visor will be up so you will burn your hands and face either way.

When i fill up i put my side stand down but keep the bike upright, I do this mainly out of habit as i have to get off the bike after i have filled up to pay so i highly doubt i would drop the bike if i had to get off in a hurry due to a fire. Either you have dropped a lot of bikes in your life time or you arent confident at keeping a bike upright when you're sitting still because i have never dropped a bike whilst sat on it so how can a side stand that you quote "usually" only fails due to operator error be more reliable than my legs? If you say that side stands dont "usually" fail on their own then you are saying its not 100% safe to fill up your bike on the side stand as it could fail, causing the bike to fall and fuel to go everywhere. If you aren't capable of holding a bike upright at a fuel station whilst filling up then you shouldn't be on the road.

When i park my bike up i use the side stand because thats what its for, if it fails and the bike falls over when im not near it i'm not in any danger so it doesnt matter. When i'm filling up my bike with fuel i am in a dangerous location and i'm with the bike so i would rather sit on it as i trust myself more than the stand.

I have attached images below of people who also agree about being able to get more fuel in the tank with the bike upright, I have not found anyone apart from you who thinks otherwise. Heres the proof to the basic fact i stated.





At the end of the day it is your personal opinion on whether you sit on the bike or use the stand when filling up so i'm not going to argue the toss over it. I want to be at the petrol stations as least as possible so getting the most in the tank each fill is benificial to me. But the fact that you can fit more fuel in a motorbike tank (with the fuel cap in the centre of the tank) with it upright is a fact. Otherwise i would go into the pub and ask for my pint to be filled with the glass at 45 degree angle as i will get more in.

[MarkB]

At the end of the day it is your personal opinion on whether you sit on the bike or use the stand when filling up so i'm not going to argue the toss over it. I want to be at the petrol stations as least as possible so getting the most in the tank each fill is benificial to me. But the fact that you can fit more fuel in a motorbike tank (with the fuel cap in the centre of the tank) with it upright is a fact. Otherwise i would go into the pub and ask for my pint to be filled with the glass at 45 degree angle as i will get more in.

Not to belabor the point, but I don't think anyone is arguing that one can get more fuel in the tank on the side stand.  The argument is that it is safer to fuel while off the bike.

To wit: http://www-static.shell.com/content/dam/shell/static/can-en/downloads/consumers/safety/fuel-safety.pdf

The reasons for asking riders to get off their bikes:

This reduces the riders exposure to breathing gasoline vapors by increasing the distance from the fill point

This reduces the possibility of the riders skin and clothing being exposed to fuel splash and overflows if they occur

Should a refueling fire start, the rider's ability to quickly separate themselves from the fire is improved if they are already off the motorcycle

If a fire forced the rider to jump off the bike, the risk of the motorcycle falling over and spreading the fire is greatly reduced

As you can well imagine, Shell being a global company also operates in many countries where motorcycles are used as the primary mode of motorized transport. This allows us to review incidents all over the world and apply best practices developed in other countries that may have more experience in a particular area. In this case the policy came about as a result of investigations into multiple incidents that were compounded by the individual remaining on the motorcycle while fuelling. In most cases the damages were relatively minor and related to fuel spills and tank overfills resulting in the customer who was straddling the motorcycle being splashed with gasoline. In more severe cases the fuel splash has reached hot engine parts resulting in fires and in a tragic case, the resulting fires caused fatalities when the rider jumped of the bike knocking it over with it's still open fuel tank and the resulting fuel splash exposed the rider, as well as other individuals in the vicinity with burning gasoline.

There is currently no provincial, state or national regulation requiring riders to dismount prior to fuelling, but Shell believes it is our corporate responsibility to ensure that we create as safe an environment as possible at our stations. We have not widely communicated to the motorcycling community our global policy, partially because we are not aware of any other major oil company adopting a similar policy. We do not wish to create the mistaken impression that Shell is not motorcycle friendly because of this policy. Our motorcycling community is still relatively small, so we have tried to manage this policy by asking station staff to reinforce this policy with customers in a respectful manner. We do have a pamphlet available at all our locations called "Shell Helps with Gasoline Safety" that does mention this subject.

I hope you find this explanation adequate and that you consider how Shell is doing this to improve rider safety when you make your choice of fuel supplier. I do understand the difficulties in topping up a fuel tank while the bike is on the side stand, but from a technical standpoint the tank should not be filled beyond 95% capacity to allow for expansion and the design of a modern Harley fuel tank is such that this limit should be able to be reached even when the motorcycle is on the side stand. The center stand is also an alternative.

[ThatOtherGuy]

CBF reading a long reply that still believes sitting on a bike while refueling is safe.  You do it your way and wear the less favourable consequences when something bad happens, though I suppose you'll just sue somebody as most people do nowadays when they screw up.

Its so unfortunate that you cannot legislate against stupidity.

[Janx101]

i refueled a dirtbike whilst sitting on it years ago.... with a 10 litre jerrycan ... spilt the fuel.... solid case of "Nitro-Crotch" .. ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow!!!!

no more for me!!! ...