Very inconsistent issues (running rich and flooding)

[JollyRojer]

The bikes been running better then it ever has until a few days ago.  Stopped at the store parked on a fairly steep incline got caught inside talking to a friend for a few minutes and when i left the bike struggle to start bogged hard trying to turn over and i could smell it was very rich. got it started and home and parked it.  Went to leave for work the next day and the bike was leaking fuel out the overflow very rapidly figured i was silly and left it on prime, switched it back bike started and ran fine, smelled alittle rich but thats fairly usual. worked my 12hr shift and when i went to leave last night the bike bogged hard with the choke on, barely getting above 3k i released the choke and she returned to the usual idle. went to pull out and she bogged and died before i hit 5k pulled over, tried to restart the bike turned over again running very rich and wouldnt start.  Let it sit had a cigarette tried again it started but the moment i tried to choke it she bogs and dies again.  Im assuming either a float needle is stuck open just broken in general im going to pull the carbs on tuesday my next day off but does anyone have any ideas or things specifically i should be looking for/at?

[BockinBboy]

Yeah, definately sounds like a needle valve seat issue... I'd turn the tank petcock off until you are able to check it out. You could confirm its carb/fuel issue with a carb drain check (clear U-tube method), and rule out spark, but there is a BIG finger pointing to the carbs anyway since you just had the overflowing problem on prime. Since you'll have them off the bike, you might as well clean up and replace and rubber/gaskets/o-rings in there if you can.



- Bboy

[Snake2715]

If you need the bike for work or something you may want to source the orings first they can take a few days to come in.

FYI.

I am at work so cant check the parts diagrams (youtube is blocked).

To rebuild both its probably 30-40 for both sides most all orings. I imagine the jets can be cleaned and if the needle is good that can be reused. Just the orings get old and leak after a while.

Of course record how many turns out each carb is etc prior to taking apart so you can reset there if needed.

[JollyRojer]

i have my very reliable daily driver of a car so the bike isnt a necessity for anything more then my sanity but the carbs have been a major issue on this bike the entire time ive owned it, it started with just high speed bogging which i assumed was a petcock issue, swapped to an '04 petcock and saw little to no change essentially every issue this bike has ever had has been ridiculously inconsistent. Some days it runs great other days it wont run at all, ive been putting off a full carb tear down for WAY to long so i guess its a good time, ive gone threw the wikki and youtube threads as far as disassembly and cleaning and i am decently mechanically inclined but my carb knowledge is very lacking, what source do most of you use for seals and orings? i know theres the general rebuilds on ebay i see them very regularly, and there is a good suzuki shop maybe 15 minutes from me that i used for most of my front end replacement parts after the wreck.  But any where more direct?

[Snake2715]

I use:

www.rockymountainatv.com  (really like this store)

or

www.Bikebandit.com


Most times I use my local motorsports dealer, we have 3-4 locally but this is closer to my place.

www.us27motorsports.com


I do ship to store to save on shipping, pay the tax and help the local store out.

I didnt do a rebuild kit. All the metal parts you are probably good on. The orings need to be replaced. I tear down and clean then place my order. Then once its received wrap the carbs up. 

I have done maybe 7 carbs total in the last 2 years. Take your time, take pictures.

I use an air compressor and carb cleaner to clean the jets, etc. I also have used a sandwich tie (metal) to knock out the jets, be careful not to scratch the brass.

Its honestly not that hard if you are just returning to OEM specs.

DONT blow compressed air through it with the diaphrams, etc still installed.

Unless your "T"'s are bad no reason to separate the carbs. If you do separate the carbs the carb that vents to the petcock is on the left.. the right carb has the vent nipple but is blocked off internally so make sure you have them marked left and right.


If you are mechanically inclined this will be a few hour project and then done. You will see a huge difference in the performance.

[JollyRojer]

got them off and apart now, orings all look good i think the left side carb float needle slipped off the tab... (would that cause the flooding and drowning?) it would make sense bc when i pulled the plugs only the left side looked wet the right was completely dry.  i rebent the needle hanger back to matching the opposite (it was bent open a bit more and when i pulled the floats the needle didnt come up with it on the left side carb, right side seemed fine...) cleaned the jets and bowls now im heading back to reinstall them.. we will see. fingers crossed i wanna get back on this thing.

[JollyRojer]

reinstalled (holy chit getting the carbs back into the airbox is a pita!) bike turns over freely but wont start. tried in both prime and res. battery died before i had a chance to trouble shoot much more im going to charge the battery and try again tomorrow.

[Snake2715]

tabs don't.necessarily.match. you have to check fuel height out of carb drain hoses.

also don't forget the on off under the tank (petcock). if you left that left to right (horizontal) its off.

there is a spring inside thqt needle valve. If its not functioning then you will need to replace or separate it and clean the brass and spring. it needs to spring up.

[JollyRojer]

i reset the tank petcock to on but when i pulled the needle seats i didnt see any springs, was just a simple brass fitting with oring like shown in the sticky post. maybe im not picturing what you're describing... i know theres a spring on the needle from the diaphram?

[iamhiding]

hi there,

i've been through 3 sets of carbs now... just dont ask... hahaha

but fuel out the overflow? now someone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong here but the gs doesnt have an overflow from the carb, it has the vacuum line to the petcock, fuel line into the bottom and a breather out the top, which obviously doesn't attach to anything, often confused for an overflow.

now i cant comment on the inconsistency of the issue but if you have fuel coming out of the breather it means it's likely that the needle seat isn't seated properly i.e the o-rings on the jets arent doing their job

well thats from my experience anyways, it confused the hell out of me for days, learned how the backpressure worked whilst going over and over diagrams haha, the way i see it is you can either replace the o-rings or replace  the seats. secondly i would check the needles are in decent condition.

hope this helped man.

B.

[JollyRojer]

overflow from the airbox :X was what i meant, how exactly does one diagnose the needles? i had both out today both seemed fine but this bike is 20 years old... im assuming the needle itself wears in the float seat to the point it can no longer close the hole at the bottom of the seat causing the overflow and bad AFR? i inspected both needles but i dont have a micrometer nor do i know the seat hole tolerances to make a judgement are there certain characteristics i should be looking for on the needles themselves to deem them good or bad?

[Snake2715]

i reset the tank petcock to on but when i pulled the needle seats i didnt see any springs, was just a simple brass fitting with oring like shown in the sticky post. maybe im not picturing what you're describing... i know theres a spring on the needle from the diaphram?

Float assembly has been removed.If the needle's seat O ring doesn't seal tight,it will flood the crank case with gas.


Float assembly.If that O ring or needle doesn't seal tight,it will cause running issues and flooding.


see the float needle in the above pic?

your loking at the bottom with the rubber point. the other end has a little clip (don't let this fly off). you take the clip off and there is a little piston and spring. clean that up. maybe some fine sand paper around a toothpic, etc. then clean the piston. old gas with ethenol gunks these up.

put the spring and piston back in and snap the c clip back on. then use your finger and make sure that piston is bouncing back up. if it is then it should push against the tab on the floats and help your issue.

now also make sure the floats and that stem on the floats are seated tightly and those orings are good.

again this is my understanding when you said the one side was not springing back up. that piston and spring is what allows that.

make sense? I am on my phone but I can get a pic tomorrow if you need of an extra one.

[Snake2715]

after you do both these.

put airbox on carbs and install all as one.. its way easier this way then.lining up boots. either funnel or hook up tank and then check the float height on both carbs with a clear hose out of drain screw. (search float height if you dont know how).

once that's done button her up and she should fire.

from there check it out and maybe a carb synch is in order. if you need a how to.build on that, ask. I can link it tomorrow. there is a better one then the yardstick method and just as cheap.


oh and needles (not needle valve). those probably do wear, but more likely they will be fine, unless bent. I doubt the needles are an issue, bit if the above doesnt do.it you could pull them and make sure they roll ok on a glass table. you'll know if they are bent. someone with more experience than me can chime in if they actually wear out... i mean it would take forever..

[JollyRojer]

ah ok gotcha that could be the issue, i pushed on the needle with the clip off and it didnt move or bounce at all, i did however get the bike started today and it ran decently until my ride home, its a pretty consistent 55 and about a mile into the ride home it started bogging and jerking pretty hard, i got it home at about 45 the majority of the way but it still sounded bogged pretty good then it would fire and jerk forward a bit now that its home at least i can take it apart more comfortably instead of the gravel at my work and i wont be so rushed, im going to rip it back apart on saturday if i can recreate the problem again tomorrow morning.  ON a good note the bike from 0-55 is responding ALOT better to my throttle then previously.

btw big thanks for your quick responses snake and dedication to helping me fix this i would be so far in the dark without the help lol.

[Snake2715]

hey no problem, keep us informed. that little snap ring can.fly offi have lost them on other carbs.. then your buying the needle and that's probably $8-$20. so do it inside once you the needle out or in the bathtub so you can find it.

[Janx101]

Don't forget the plug in the bath tub though

[Vindicate]

Why does this man post irrelevant things in a high technical thread on our forum? The thread is so frequently disrupted by the man. Is this the way this forum operates? I am accutomad to moderation in technical areas. Can some moderation be organised?

[Janx101]

..... Hmmm ... Anyway ... The plug in the bathtub mentioned by Snake ... Because those little widgetty rings could easily get lost down the plug hole ... 

[Snake2715]

I have taken the needle valves apart in my garge and I listen to my headphones while working.. fat chance of hearing metal hit the ground, especially that small of piece with headphones on. 

I would suggest any small, non carpeted room for this. And the plug is legitimate.. it could with murphys law would go down the drain.

[codajastal]

Why does this man post irrelevant things in a high technical thread on our forum? The thread is so frequently disrupted by the man. Is this the way this forum operates? I am accutomad to moderation in technical areas. Can some moderation be organised?

Bwhaha noworries mate, he posts like that all the time