LED Headlight Question??

[Clint21]

Hey GS Community,

I want to replace my stock 60/55 W H4 Halogen headlight with LEDs.  I've googled it, but can't seem to find the "lumens per watt" of this bulb.  I've seen people on Yahoo guessing at 12 lumens per watt but then others 1100 to 1200 lumens total for the bulb.  The math doesn't add up.  Which, if either, is correct?  Regardless, would I need my LEDs to produce the 720 or even 1200  lumens, or is less luminosity required with white LEDs instead of the stock halogen.

Any insight or references will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Clint

[Wagoneer]

Horrible idea in so many ways. I won't even go into why.

The reflector is made for a halogen bulb, not LED.

[fetor56]

From what i'v seen LED's still arn't powerfull enough....what example did u have in mind?

[Wagoneer]

Okay I'm going to explain this because I'm genuinely concerned for your well-being.

An LED bulb is going to multiple light sources or "hot spots" if you will. The stock headlight is made for a dual filament halogen bulb that has two filament hot spots in very specific spots to make up the low beam and high beam. Change that hot spot and the beam pattern is going to out of wack. Add a whole bunch of hot spots and the beam is going to be crazy and not much of the light is actually going to make it forward and onto the road.

Not to mention most LED's are going to be in the +6000k temp which is going to be horrible in bad weather and just all around visibility for night driving.

If you're talking about actually replacing the whole headlight with LED specific housings, then disregard everything I've just said (or just use it as an out).

[ohgood]

Hey GS Community,

I want to replace my stock 60/55 W H4 Halogen headlight with LEDs.  I've googled it, but can't seem to find the "lumens per watt" of this bulb.  I've seen people on Yahoo guessing at 12 lumens per watt but then others 1100 to 1200 lumens total for the bulb.  The math doesn't add up.  Which, if either, is correct?  Regardless, would I need my LEDs to produce the 720 or even 1200  lumens, or is less luminosity required with white LEDs instead of the stock halogen.

Any insight or references will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Clint

great questions !

yes, leds are ready for day to day usage.
yes, the throw far enough.
yes, the throw WIDE enough.
yes, they draw very little amperage in doing so.
yes, some are expensive.
yes, you will see things on the road, in the ditches, in the turns, and a 1/2 mile away you would not have seen with the stock light.


look up toughleds on amazon. a 12w spot and 12w flood will make a great addition to your stock headlamp. it will be overkill for normal riding, but you will enjoy it. the stock headlamp is essentially useless in comparison, but I'm saying use it as an addition to prevent any legal eagles from saying stupid things.


don't believe me ? ok, here's $60 worth of proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq8tw7gerQc


this was a poorly aimed, trial run of 2 18w lightbars, very low price, supposedly low quality lights. since then I've replaced the stock drz headlight completely with these mounted in the stockers location, aimed correctly. I have about 120 degrees of clean white light, with the same throw (distance) or maybe a little more than stock.

interesting side benefit: anything with 3m material or reflective properties is on fire with illumination from 1/2 a mile or more away.

I will not be going back to stock. ever.

the truck and wifes car will be receiving led upgrades, (with projector) as will the scooter. this is the best, cleanest, consistantly clear light I've ever seen.

[Wagoneer]

You realize you're suggesting something illegal right? There's a reason why all LED headlamps (aside from a few) are all for "off road" use only. They have no cut-off, are not DOT approved and will not pass inspection.

They can be used as aux lights but cannot replace your actual headlight.

[ohgood]

legal eagles, quick to call foul, slow to read.... sigh

[ohgood]

You realize you're suggesting something illegal right? There's a reason why all LED headlamps (aside from a few) are all for "off road" use only. They have no cut-off, are not DOT approved and will not pass inspection.

They can be used as aux lights but cannot replace your actual headlight.

yes, they can replace the actual headlight. yes, they can have a cutoff. yes, they can pass inspection.

try a new card, that ones torn.


I've had several leos (motors cops) and highway men comment about the light. the worst I got was "you did that ? well, it sure looks better than the stock HID shaZam! that blinds me around every turn"

they have around 15000 lumens of flashy-see-me leds around their cars/bikes and still get hit by drunks. mine is barely 1600.

[Soloratov]

There are a few legal ones, but mostly designed around Harleys. You could probably fit one, but not correctly. Plus, the cheapest I found quick was specifically for a Harley Softail and it was pushing $300...however, I do like the idea. If one could be found that worked easy, I would do it too.

[ohgood]

There are a few legal ones, but mostly designed around Harleys. You could probably fit one, but not correctly. Plus, the cheapest I found quick was specifically for a Harley Softail and it was pushing $300...however, I do like the idea. If one could be found that worked easy, I would do it too.

there was a review of the harley light on youtube that was served a dcma takedown, and disappeared. it highlighted changes in aperture/exposure in the ambient lighting during post processing to make the output look better than it was... just a heads up.



there is a hks (I forget) speaker company making headlights (dot, mot, trot or lot whatever along) for jeeps that do a fantastic job. they have projectors, cutoffs, and iirc, a dipped beam via two seperate leds and projectors. pricey units, sold in pairs.

I prefer the cheaper versions that can handle a few 12ft drops and ice water overnight. nothing wrong with making a buck, but I draw the line at non improved performance with exponential pricing.

[ohgood]

There are a few legal ones, but mostly designed around Harleys. You could probably fit one, but not correctly. Plus, the cheapest I found quick was specifically for a Harley Softail and it was pushing $300...however, I do like the idea. If one could be found that worked easy, I would do it too.

this is also exactly why I suggested supplementing (like thousands of riders do) their stock headlight with a pair.

also, bmw has a stock led light available on 2013 gs1200's that is supposedly good, if you don't mind the entry fee.

[Janx101]

(drags in beanbag, popcorn and drink) ... dont mind me guys! .. im hear to listen and learn .. about what is available and who has actually used them.

... only thing i can think to add right now is... when measured .. a 'lumen' is a 'lumen' .. it is a measure of output/brightness more or less .. what counts in headlights and other uses is how that light is directed/focused/dispersed ..

like a lighthouse .. some are just a very big bulb/lamp that flash at preset sequence with a also preset viewing angle (to help navigation, if you can see that light you must be within x degress of that light and using two references you can begin to triangulate your position) ... and some have a huge focused and rotating lens around them that projects the light and intensifies it , which also increases the viewable range by a large margin!

its not always about how bright/big a light is... its what you do with/to that light that counts!! .... that reminds me of some other saying?! ... now what was it?!?! 

[Wagoneer]

Maybe posting up some links to specific lights might help this guy out because 90% of the housings out there are just for aux use and not for use as a headlight, whether it be flood or spot. There are very few actual legal LED headlight replacements, especially in that price point.

Also, even the best LED spot isn't going to outperform a proper HID projector or a nice halogen setup. The light spread is fantastic, distance not so much.

I'm a huge fan of LED's (have a LED light bar on my SX4 AWD as well as LED reverse lights), but they have their time and place.

[Clint21]

Hey guys.  First, thanks for all the quick replies. 

I was thinking of doing a custom LED light actually.  Thanks for the heads up about the housing Wagoneer.  Now when you say "LED specific" do you mean I'll need to get rid of all the reflective housing.  Thanks for all the info ohgood.  I want what you got in the end.  A complete replacement of the stock bulb not merely to supplement.  Might be too selfish/ambitious but it's what I'm shooting for.   Cool vid btw.  I'm still researching into this but wanted to let y'all know I appreciated the feedback.

Clint

[Soloratov]

If you can come up with something that actually works well, then that's fantastic! However, keep in mind, it won't be legal. It won't pass inspection in the US and it would probably be a beacon to cops. Maybe you would be ok in TN, but I know up here in NY and general NE states...it wouldn't fly.

[ohgood]

Maybe posting up some links to specific lights might help this guy out because 90% of the housings out there are just for aux use and not for use as a headlight, whether it be flood or spot. There are very few actual legal LED headlight replacements, especially in that price point.

Also, even the best LED spot isn't going to outperform a proper HID projector or a nice halogen setup. The light spread is fantastic, distance not so much.

I'm a huge fan of LED's (have a LED light bar on my SX4 AWD as well as LED reverse lights), but they have their time and place.

I haven't seen an hid reflector (collector???, terminology hmm) that out performs led yet. keep in mind everyone and their brother does retrofits to stock reflectors and is amazed at the awesome new light...even though its wrong and lacking full potential.

I know trailtech makes a 8" hid roundie that's +$600, road legal, and some people love it, but they're few and far between. the ds guys I ride with aren't hip to that kind of outlay the first go round, let alone the second when they smack a tree. I haven't seen it working in person yet.

the hid conversions look different, usually have a blue or purple hue, and throw good light, but that reflector leaves a lot to be desired. id imagine a sv 650 headlight would trump it with a nice 60w bulb, easily, and safely.

I should have listed some problems with led lighting:
low wattage/amperage pull= waste at rr and/or stator = heat
inconsistancies with batches of leds (color)
inconsistancies with manufacturers (its china)
supply chain availability (autozone has h4's allllll day long)
replacement costs



my plan is to (eventually) have a completely self contained unit, detachable, with lion battery, for use as a hike/flash light. when it plugs into the bike, it charges, once the bike is running. cool ?

there are 250lumen flashlights at costco that can be duct taped to a helmet for trail rides. they work very well. lots of solutions, just need to address a problem first

[Clint21]

I'm not sure if it'll fly down here or not.  I see the LED headlights on cars a good bit so maybe the cops won't pay much attention.  I hope atleast. 

Pretty nifty idea there ohgood.  Hope that project works out.  Be sure to post pics please.

Ohgood, you say the low amperage will cause waste at the stator.  Well what if you have additional accessories?  Then no waste/heat right?

Additional question.  When the engine is running at say 5000 rpm so you have you're 13.5ish volts from the alternator,  what is the load of the battery?  (13.5ish)*(13.5ish) / (Internal Resistance of Battery) ?  If yes, what is the internal resistance of the battery?

[ohgood]

I'm not sure if it'll fly down here or not.  I see the LED headlights on cars a good bit so maybe the cops won't pay much attention.  I hope atleast. 

Pretty nifty idea there ohgood.  Hope that project works out.  Be sure to post pics please.

Ohgood, you say the low amperage will cause waste at the stator.  Well what if you have additional accessories?  Then no waste/heat right?

Additional question.  When the engine is running at say 5000 rpm so you have you're 13.5ish volts from the alternator,  what is the load of the battery?  (13.5ish)*(13.5ish) / (Internal Resistance of Battery) ?  If yes, what is the internal resistance of the battery?

I have no idea at all what one charging system produces vs wastes as heat.

my understanding is that any oil cooled stator prefers to have its output used, and lower outputs means less heat both in generation and waste.

my understandings are short and confused, normally. using overage with some kind of device is better than dumping it to a heatsink, imho. the battery serves as a nice, fat buffer.

[Clint21]

Hmmmm, alright thanks ohgood.

Thanks for all the help guys.  If I'm able to get it working I'll certainly post some pics and a write up. In the meantime, just gonna replace with the halogen bulb since this project seems a little more involved than initially anticipated.

[MarkB]

Ohgood, you say the low amperage will cause waste at the stator.  Well what if you have additional accessories?  Then no waste/heat right?

In a shunt regulator system like the GS500 (and most small bikes) the alternator produces a constant current output at a particular RPM.  Excess current (i.e. whatever is not dissipated by lights and accessories) is dissipated by the voltage regulator.  Hence reducing the load by going to LED lighting makes the voltage regulator run hotter which will reduce it's reliability, though maybe not enough to be of concern.  If you've added other accessories then there is that much less power that has to be dissipated at the regulator.