Need help with Strange starter problem

[Howler]

Hello Everyone. I am having this weird starter trouble that I can not seem to pinpoint and I am hoping someone here can help me out. The bike is a 2006 GS500F. The problem has been going on since I bought the bike 3 years ago. But it only happens during high heat days like this past week where it has been 32C/89F(with humidity feels like 40C/104F). It only seems to happen when it gets hot and humid. Any other time I never have any problem or even a sign of a problem. When I depress the starter switch the lights dim but the starter will not even spin. If I am lucky it might spin for a split second. Yes a split second. Then absolutely nothing. The battery is fully charged. I have gone through the steps of checking all the safety switches and they all seem fine. One thing to I have noticed that when it does this I have a 50-50 chance of starting the bike by jump starting it in first gear. Sometimes it works with ease and other times it does not turn the engine over at all. Not sure if it is related or not. Has anyone come across this before or can someone help me trouble shoot this please.

Thanks in advance

[Kerry]

My first thought is to check all connections that lead to the starter motor.  There aren't that many:



(The lower red wire comes straight from the + battery terminal)

On the other hand, the fact that the lights dim when you hit the starter button makes it sound like the starter motor is actually receiving power, but not spinning for some reason.  And that makes me think that either

• there is not enough energy in the battery to spin the motor (and engine), or
• there is a minor obstruction that clears itself up sometimes

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

My bike is currently sidelined with the same symptom.

It sat for a few months because it would turn over but not start.  I finally got it to start by cleaning some ignition-related connections (Yay!) and then suited up for a test ride.  As soon as I dropped it off the centerstand, it acted exactly like you describe:  I got the "click" from the starter relay, and I could tell that that the starter motor turned a few degrees, but then nothing.

In my case, I couldn't get the engine to spin at all.  I even tried putting the bike in 6th gear and turning the rear wheel, but no luck.

I'm not positive about the cause yet, but I suspect that a bit of magnet (or epoxy) has come loose in the alternator.  Hopefully not as bad as this, though!







I'm still waiting for a chance to get back out to my shed so I can drain the oil, pull that left side off and have a look....

[adidasguy]

Are you starting in gear or neutral? Sticky clutch plates can make starting in gear difficult. They do not separate when clutch pulled in. If in gear, be in neutral. That's always easier on the starter and engine.
What is the voltage on the battery? Possible battery doesn't like the heat.
Also possible there are dirty connections that open up when they get hot.

[Kijona]

Well, I'd check the battery itself first. Fully charged does not necessarily mean "good." Heat related starting issues also points to a bad battery.

Connect a multimeter. Measure voltage sitting while not running. Attempt to start the bike and watch the voltage. It shouldn't drop more than one or two volts.

More often than not I've seen a battery show close to 13 volts while sitting, but as soon as you hit the starter it drops to 8 or 9 volts which indicates a bad battery.

Edit: Also, Adidasguy is right about the clutch. I'll add that it's actually easier to bump start in 2nd or 3rd gear. It won't spin the engine as fast but it will give the wheel more leverage on the motor. I figured this out after the kickstart lever snapped off of my Honda XR250R. In 1st and 2nd gear it would simply drag the rear tire; even if you got a running start and dumped the clutch, it just locked the rear wheel. 3rd gear or above was needed.

[Howler]

Thank you for the replies.

So I always start in neutral. Because of this problem I roll the bike out of the garage once it starts and leave it idle while I shut the garage door. The battery is brand new. I replaced the old one last year mid season when I first noticed the problem.  Figured it was the battery as well. However seeing you never know for sure I will do a check on it.

I had cleaned all connections last year. But this makes me wonder if the wires need inspecting. The kid that had this bike before me did so some modifications. And not in a good way. Well In a cheap way. So I'll go over the connections and wires again.

About the clutch. If the clutch was the problem would the starter motor still try to engage? Spin or something? Right now it does absolutely nothing. No noise what so ever. Only indication is the headlight dims when I press the starter switch. Last night when the temp cooled down she started no problem. But this morning nothing. Just the light dimming. I am not totally familiar with the feel of a sticky clutch however I have wondered if mine was. I notice if I tried to start it while in first gear she would jump forward a bit. That I assume is a sticky clutch?

Also. Thanks for the tip on the bump start. I did not realize it was easier to start in 2nd or 3rd. Hopefully that will stop me from doing skid marks on the driveway. LOL

Thanks.
Howler

[Kijona]

Thank you for the replies.

So I always start in neutral. Because of this problem I roll the bike out of the garage once it starts and leave it idle while I shut the garage door. The battery is brand new. I replaced the old one last year mid season when I first noticed the problem.  Figured it was the battery as well. However seeing you never know for sure I will do a check on it.

I had cleaned all connections last year. But this makes me wonder if the wires need inspecting. The kid that had this bike before me did so some modifications. And not in a good way. Well In a cheap way. So I'll go over the connections and wires again.

About the clutch. If the clutch was the problem would the starter motor still try to engage? Spin or something? Right now it does absolutely nothing. No noise what so ever. Only indication is the headlight dims when I press the starter switch. Last night when the temp cooled down she started no problem. But this morning nothing. Just the light dimming. I am not totally familiar with the feel of a sticky clutch however I have wondered if mine was. I notice if I tried to start it while in first gear she would jump forward a bit. That I assume is a sticky clutch?

Also. Thanks for the tip on the bump start. I did not realize it was easier to start in 2nd or 3rd. Hopefully that will stop me from doing skid marks on the driveway. LOL

Thanks.
Howler

Sounds like POSSIBLY your clutch is out of adjustment. But yes, it shouldn't lurch or jump or move at all even if you start it in gear. At least that's been my experience and I've owned a few different Japanese bikes. I don't know for sure but even with a sticky clutch, a brand new or otherwise correctly functioning battery should have PLENTY of juice to move the bike forward if you attempted to start it in gear without the clutch pulled in. My '88 KLR650 (which is a 600cc+ single cylinder) had its clutch sensor removed. Someone once pushed the starter button while it was sitting and in gear and it had enough punch to roll it all the way off the side stand.

Given the above, I highly doubt the sticky clutch is the issue, now that I think about it. Come to think of it, though it's not a bike, my car occasionally suffers the same kind of issue. I go to start it and nothing happens. No noise, no nothing. It's due to a weak part, someone once told me the specific name of it but I can't recall it at the moment. The part the engages the gear for starting. I don't know if it's the same on the GS, but what you might try is next time it does it, put the bike in gear and bump it just a bit. That's what works on my car. Fails to start, put it in first, let it roll a few feet then dump the clutch and that usually allows the starter to turn over.

Makes you wish you had a kickstart, huh? LOL

[BockinBboy]

Given the above, I highly doubt the sticky clutch is the issue, now that I think about it. Come to think of it, though it's not a bike, my car occasionally suffers the same kind of issue. I go to start it and nothing happens. No noise, no nothing. It's due to a weak part, someone once told me the specific name of it but I can't recall it at the moment. The part the engages the gear for starting. I don't know if it's the same on the GS, but what you might try is next time it does it, put the bike in gear and bump it just a bit. That's what works on my car. Fails to start, put it in first, let it roll a few feet then dump the clutch and that usually allows the starter to turn over.

Sorry, not much to contribute on the thread but...
Sounds like my old truck I sold last summer... I would go to start it and nothing... ended being what you described... I would literally get out and rock the truck back and forth till I heard a loud clunk, then it would start... let it go so long that eventually when I would rock it, I had to push and rock it for several feet to get it to clack clack clack clack    CLUNK ... then I could start it... really sucked in the snow... turned out it only took about $20 on a used part at the U-pull junk yard...

- Bboy

[Kijona]

Given the above, I highly doubt the sticky clutch is the issue, now that I think about it. Come to think of it, though it's not a bike, my car occasionally suffers the same kind of issue. I go to start it and nothing happens. No noise, no nothing. It's due to a weak part, someone once told me the specific name of it but I can't recall it at the moment. The part the engages the gear for starting. I don't know if it's the same on the GS, but what you might try is next time it does it, put the bike in gear and bump it just a bit. That's what works on my car. Fails to start, put it in first, let it roll a few feet then dump the clutch and that usually allows the starter to turn over.

Sorry, not much to contribute on the thread but...
Sounds like my old truck I sold last summer... I would go to start it and nothing... ended being what you described... I would literally get out and rock the truck back and forth till I heard a loud clunk, then it would start... let it go so long that eventually when I would rock it, I had to push and rock it for several feet to get it to clack clack clack clack    CLUNK ... then I could start it... really sucked in the snow... turned out it only took about $20 on a used part at the U-pull junk yard...

- Bboy

Yup. Though I'm not sure if the GS500 starter works the same way. I don't have a ton of experience with starters on bikes either, just thought I'd do what I could to help

[adidasguy]

There is no "starter solenoid" or anything that drops into place.
Watch my video on fixing Suzi and you can see how the starter works.

Starting in gear will cause lurching if the clutch plates are even the slightest sticky. In gear, only the clutch separates the wheel from the motor. If the plates stick, the motor will cause the wheel to turn and the bike lurches (along with extra stress on the starter motor and the single bolt that holds the magnet rotor and starter gear on the crank shaft). Interesting that there is no "key" to prevent the rotor from coming loose. It is a press fit with one bolt. And the direction of force when starting the bike is the same direction to loosen that bolt. Now we know why they can come loose!

Starting in neutral completely disengages the engine from the rear wheel.

[Kerry]

My turn to feel silly ... but I don't fully understand why yet.

I went out to the shed this morning, before the sun got too high in the sky, and repositioned my bike to give me room to pull off the left-side engine covers (clutch / alternator).  Something "felt" a little different, so on a whim I applied key / clutch / start button ... and it started! 

I had other errands, so I haven't taken her out for a test spin yet.  I'll report back on anything "surprising" either way.