Please help ! Magnet length on alternator rotor between versions

[adidasguy]

"Never mind. Sledge is always right because the Brits have perfect teeth and great cuisine that rivals the French!"

Forgot the obligatory cat.....

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[yamahonkawazuki]

The light rubbing with fine sandpaper roughens the surface so they lock together

That is incorrect, the smoother the surfaces are the more effective the interface is as the contact areas are greater.
I suggest you do some research on the subject yourself rather than blindly assuming your statements are truthful and expecting others to share the sentiment.

maybe so, in certain cirumstances. but when I build a pc, ill wet sand the heat sink and it runs cooler. essentially makes the contact area greater. by a minute amount.  could be the same here too. we had 2 dozen of these gs' at MMI. had to tear one apart in 2001. was getting no fire. I spent the night there teaching myself how to do this. as we used those bikes for fuel delivery and carb tuning. the light sanding worked then and is still working today. as that bike is still there and still running. ( I keep in touch with them. ) as long as  its not overdone, and no fragments left behind I see no harm in doing this. its just afterall a MINUTE amount of sanding. hes not grinding off a lot of material afterall.

[sledge]

OK. Whatever. You win.
I promise to never respond where you have posted.
I'm too tired of pissing matches.
You win. To you, I'm always wrong and you are always right.
There is never the possibility to you that what I say may work.
I post my findings and opinions without saying they are the absolute truth.
But I am, of course, always wrong.
Enjoy.
Good bye.







Forgot the obligatory cat.....

Won??? I have won nothing. All I have done is highlight a suggestion made by you that does not follow and instead ignores convention and good engineering practise in an attempt to prevent others  from suffering is they should choose to follow it. It seems your problem is in the fact you didn't like me doing it 

A suggestion........

Perhaps next time you `advise` people, particularly those who lack knowledge and experience you ensure the advice you give is sound. Then no one has any excuse to question your comments and confront you. It simply does not follow that because you have not had a problem others wont if they do a similar thing.

I hate to think how many people have now `sandpapered` their flywheels and cranks as you suggest in your video and WILL go on to develop further problems as a direct result  My only consolation is that I have tried to point them in the correction direction and suggest they do there own research before accepting without question what you say is best practice.

Some people don't know as much as they think they do about certain subjects and topics.........and some people tend to focus more on who is doing the talking rather than what is being said.........it tends to happen a lot in here, sadly.

Hope you have a nice day......and the cat too 

[yamahonkawazuki]

sure it defies what is conventional. but does it NOT work? can you disprove his methods? ( and others who have done this)  instead of calling him out, heck post links to information advising this should not be done. then let whomever make their choices no need for catfights Eh? its not worth it anyhoo take care, ride safe, and enjoy the bike.

[sledge]

I have no interest in catfights or confrontation, I don't however want to see people suffer as a result of someone else ignorance.

Its accepted that the most reliable and effective methods and techniques become convention, it applies and can be said of anything in engineering, construction, surgery, education  etc etc.

But don't just take my word for it. Typing "lapping flywheels" into google gives 2,200,000 hits, if you can find comments from reliable sources that suggest sandpapering tapers provides more reliability than lapping......go right ahead and punch em up here............... because I cant find any.....

[yamahonkawazuki]

Fair enough. ill concede that one. BUT think of his argument this way . at least consider it Eh?, if it works, and works as well as lapping the flywheel, is it wrong? or is it a new way of doing something. just food for thought.

[adidasguy]

"Never mind. Sledge is always right because the Brits have perfect teeth and great cuisine that rivals the French!"

[yamahonkawazuki]

this is true. glossy/polished surfaces generally slide against eachother. unless a woodruff key is used. its not like youre carving the grand canyon into it. agreed tho ill step out. before this gets tarded. because this thread has value to those repairing their gs' and other pieces . Adieu
Aaron

[sledge]

Tapers need to be mirror smooth to be effective......period! I have invited you to research the subject......go ahead and get back to me with your findings...... THEN try and tell me I am wrong

Ever heard the saying "There is nothing more dangerous than someone who thinks they know what they are talking about?"   

Seriously though Patrick, you do a lot for this forum and pass on a lot of relevant info for which you deserve credit but on this one.......you are way out of your depth   

[yamahonkawazuki]

question then, the taper on my 3 shoe clutch is not mirror smooth. a slight VERY slight gritty feeling. but no issues at all. idk lol. 

[sledge]

The only suggestion I can offer is that despite its finish it is still capable of transmitting the torque it is seeing but maybe the interface is oversized for the application 

The rule of thumb for tapered interfaces is a minimum of 80% surface contact with a Ra (roughness average) of about 0.20 micrometers but obviously.....the more the better 

Interestingly my reference material says its possible to achieve the required finish with a 500 grit surface, but to get it uniform it would have to be ground by machine rather than polished by hand.

[yamahonkawazuki]

and oddly i remember last time i was in there. there was no woodruff key. crank taper was smooth, the clutch however was the gritty part. the clutch frame is almost coloured like titanium. its weird like i said. ive seen the process both ways. and seen both ways work. some defy logic, and some dont.

[sledge]

I wouldn't expect there to be a key of any sort on something that size  .

As for being smooth.....how smooth? To make any sort of judgment you need to use a surface comparator  (touch-tables)  like this.....



But the degree of finish we are talking about i.e right on the border between grinding and lapping is very difficult to determine exactly by eye and feel.

Cant comment on the gritty clutch 

[yamahonkawazuki]

i know i just threw that in because of the discussion of tapers . you see the two on the lower right of your  comparator there?, bottom right, and th eone above it. the inside of my clutch bevel/taper is between those. the woodruff key is used when the engine is used on lawn equipment. but on goped scooters the key is inserted, then milled smooth.

[sledge]

You can tell the degree of finish just by looking at the pic and without touching the surfaces with a fingertip and making comparisons?

All I can say to that is..... WOW! 

[sledge]

Patrick?

Its been a day or so, have you taken up my suggestion to research the subject further?

If you are struggling to find a good reference work can I suggest you obtain a copy of John Piotrowskis `Shaft Alignment Handbook 3rd Edition` Its a very popular book with hands on Engineers and machinery designers when they are faced with mechanical power transmission issues and is written in relatively simple terms. Sections 4.9.6 and 4.9.7 are the relevant parts that deal with keyless tapered hubs and its there you will find all the info you need.

http://www.amazon.com/Alignment-Handbook-Edition-Mechanical-Engineering/dp/1574447211

There are other references and documents I can refer you to if you wish and I will be happy to try and answer any further questions you may have. Please note that from Monday I will be out of the country for approx. 10 days owing to work commitments. Where I am going is somewhat remote and I cant guarantee that I will be able to get back to you immediately.

Again....wishing you (and the cat) a nice day 

[yamahonkawazuki]

You can tell the degree of finish just by looking at the pic and without touching the surfaces with a fingertip and making comparisons?

All I can say to that is..... WOW! 

Funny smartass. it RESEMBLED those two I mentioned. happy now? lol

[sledge]

If you can say that with accuracy its still pretty impressive 

[sledge]

"Never mind. Sledge is always right because the Brits have perfect teeth and great cuisine that rivals the French!"

So you have now removed your original comments and instead started stereotyping. Strange behaviour for anyone 

Forgive me for saying so but when it comes to stereotyping I think many would agree that your nation presents more opportunities than any other in the world 

I could think of many things to say in reply ........however this is not the place and I am not going to lower myself.

Any sensible, pertinent comments on the real issue in hand yet?......take as much time as you want    

[yamahonkawazuki]

If you can say that with accuracy its still pretty impressive 

Have used these things in the past at various jobs. had one nearly identical to yours or the pic you showed. anyhoo jus recalling from memory. ill bow out now. have really nothing to contribute to the original topic.  or anything further that i can add to my slight threadjack. Cheers