Starter motor disintegrated. Trying to determine the cause.

[mpt65]

My bike died on me while riding. When trying to jump it the relay just clicked when I hit the starter button. After investigating the starter solenoid and wiring, everything checked out so I removed the starter and heard a rattle, not good. I found that the starter armature had fallen apart (see pic bellow).



[img=http://s21.postimg.org/5p33wv8g3/IMAG0694.jpg]

As I do not consider this "normal wear" I figure I should find out why it happened before replacing the starter. My current theory is the starter clutch seized somehow then spun the starter first draining my battery (why the bike died) then eventually came apart.

Anyone have a better idea?

I wan to check the starter clutch. What procedure should I follow to see if it is functioning properly without removing it? (I've already removed the left side cover)

Since I need a new starter what's a good (cheap) place to get one? what other bikes have a common starter? Starter clutch parts?

Thanks

[Blueknyt]

the only time the starter even see's a glimps of your battery is when you hit the start button and close the relay contacts, it is possible but extremely rare for the starter clutch to go in a manor that locks the sprag to the crank spinning the starter, but you would know it instantly as it would sound like you have a supercharger installed on your engine.  as i said its extremely rare, you might spot 3 unicorns in the wild for every one of this scene.  just for giggles i would pull the stator cover and make sure you arnt suffering "Goats syndrome :simplex B " (rotor magnets release from epoxy bouncing around and not only tear up stator <will hurt charging> but posibly locking up the starter clutch to crank. broken magnet bits in which case its also gonna be in the whole engine chewing on bearings,gears, and other shafts.  meaning you might be seeing  the first domino fall in the death of an engine.  but again, till its open, you wont know.

[Paulcet]

Starwalts disease?  Don't think so, but search and decide for yourself.

Has the bike been under water?

[weedahoe]

I have a starter here you can have for the shipping

[adidasguy]

It is a freak happening. So rare. Probably some metal fatigue in the starter. Maybe a brush fractured and took out the armature. We will never know and it will never happen again.

[sledge]

The motor has been subject to massive overspeed and centrifugal force has thrown it apart 

The only way this can happen is if the sprag clutch doesn't let go and the motor is driven by the engine when it catches but its driven at speeds far in excess of what the motor was designed to accommodate. If it was down to an electrical fault in the motor or failure of a component the damage would not be as severe because it simply would not be spinning fast enough at the time to cause such catastrophic damage.

There is another possibilty but the cause is unlikely in this case. Starter motors are what is known as series motors, the armature and field are connected in series and therefore both will see the same current. One of their characteristics is they cannot self govern their speed and depend on the load they see to govern it. Give a series motor enough voltage and without any load it will spin itself to self destruction.

What we are seeing was a common problem when electric starts where first introduced onto bikes and even into the 80s certain models, such as the Honda 250N Dreams where renowned for disintegrating their motors due to failure of the the clutch. Over the years manufacturing technology and therefore reliability has improved but no moving part is 100% reliable and as we all know the GS5 is (or was) built to a price, not a standard.

A few years ago my old mate Dougie Starwalt suffered the same issue and documented it in detail on the forum. If you follow Paulcets advice and search `starwalts` or posts made by `starwalt` you will find all the info you need.

EDIT. Interestingly enough a colleague is telling me his sons Suzuki 125 Marauder suffered the same issue a few months ago and was repaired FOC under warranty 

[The Buddha]

Paulcet+sledge+1.

Starwalts is where a small speck of the magnet breaks off and locks the sprag in the locked position.
That takes the starter on a 30,000 rpm ride.

Now you swap the starter and dont get the sprag sorted out the new starter will come apart just as quick.

Cool.
Buddha.

[sledge]

This is an armature from an industrial DC series motor that has been subject to an over speed condition..........and the damage caused as a result


The increase in centrifugal force on the coils when it went way beyond its max design speed caused the retention bands to snap and the now unrestrained conductors were flung from the slots and rubbed on the field coils and pole pieces as the armature was rotating.........now imagine the same thing happening to that tiny armature in the starter motor.

It wont stand a chance 

[Blueknyt]

Paulcet+sledge+1.

Starwalts is where a small speck of the magnet breaks off and locks the sprag in the locked position.
That takes the starter on a 30,000 rpm ride.

Now you swap the starter and dont get the sprag sorted out the new starter will come apart just as quick.

Cool.
Buddha.

Could have sworn it was Goats syndrome when rotor magnet epoxy lets go liberating magnets into the stator. oh well been awhile.  my point was, if enough magnet parts let go to lock up your starter sprag, might wanna pull the stator cover. if your biked died due to a dead battery it could be the stator is destroyed too,  if thats the case then more then just magnet parts might be flowing with the oil.

[The Buddha]

Rotor tears up stator = goats.
A tiny bit of the rotor magnet causes the starter clutch to lock up, and takes the starter along for the ride = starwalts.
Very rare, but not as rare as you think judging by this occourance.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Blueknyt]

Rotor tears up stator = goats.
A tiny bit of the rotor magnet causes the starter clutch to lock up, and takes the starter along for the ride = starwalts.
Very rare, but not as rare as you think judging by this occourance.
Cool.
Buddha.

AH but thats my point, if tthe magnets turned loose killing the stator ( OP "My bike died on me while riding") and battery gets drained cuz not charging,  goats syndrome : simplex B would be the starter sprag locking from the extra trash now being blended inside the stator case . If he didn't notice Goats setting in, he might not hear the starter being spun up like a turbo on a ALCO!!!

COME ON...open the stator cover, open it, lets us see. DOOOOO EEEETT!!!!

[The Buddha]

I believe starwalt also had a rotor that was bad. Just not bad enough to stop the bike yet, the starter was what killed it.
Anyway he has to open the rotor side cos there is a locked starter clutch there. And he needs to go in there looking with a fine tooth comb in case the rotor isn't obviously fragged.

BTW on a skorpion - the starter clutch is total 100% garbage. Last year I sent it to a machinist in oregon who makes raptor starter clutches and I got a 9 roller sprag that simply put, will eat the GS'es lunch.

If anyone needs a starter clutch made to be gentler on the idler gear as well as last longer itself, look for L&L extreme and call them and ask for Monty Lightener (and tell him i sent you) You can send them to him, he'd clean up the mating face on the idler, make the starter clutch to bite on it without leaving marks.
The MZ part cost 125 - steep, yes cos the GS one is like 30-35. But the idler gear is not going to be cheap, if you have grooves in that, its dead.

Cool.
Buddha.