warning for all

[Badot]

Also, if you think wearing a pair of 30dB earplugs under a set of 20dB muffs means 50dB of protection, you are wrong.
Doubling up ear protection results in a level of protection only slightly higher than the greatest source of protection.  Example. 30 + 20 might equal 33...  can't remember why, exactly...

There are a couple reasons, one, as you said, it's exponential.

Using the power ratio chart here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

In a perfect world, let's say you reduce the noise 30db with muffs and 20db with plugs. 30 would knock out 1000 'power ratio' and 20 would do 100, totaling 1100, a 10% improvement on the 30. Turn that back into decibels and you have roughly 33, what you had originally stated.

Also, ear protection only blocks your ears. Vibrations in your body can still create 'sounds'. So even if you block 100% of the noise from coming through your ear canals sound can still get in.

[ohgood]

It almost sounds like hearing protection is being discounted as pointless.

I've noticed arriving more relaxed and much fewer headaches when hearing protection is used. That's enough for me.

Long term benefits may or may not happen but I'm betting they do and I'll be happier along the way

[Banzai]

Ear plugs definitely aren't pointless. I wear them when driving or riding longer than about 30 minutes, especially if a large proportion of that time will be on freeways.

Loud exhausts, loud intakes and wind noise (30 years of driving convertibles, usually with the roof off) have taken their toll on my ears. I wish I'd started wearing hearing protection 20 years earlier as it certainly does reduce fatigue and hearing damage.

[ausgs]

I have since been using disposable foam ear plugs which do help but sometimes they slip out a bit.
I spoke to a hearing specialist today and he said if you cant afford custom made ear plugs to use Blu-Tack     
Got some and will try it tomorrow. Also returned the removable baffle in the Musarri pipe to stock, made it a little quieter.

www.blutack.com 

[Janx101]

Couple of mates use the noizezz earplugs at the racetrack or dragway... And most of the other ride time too

http://www.noizezz.com/eng/product/gehoorbeschermers-universeel.html

[bmf]

I picked these up recently and am impressed. Rated at 35 db

http://www.moldex.com/hearing-protection/foam-earplugs/sparkplugs.php

I tried some wax type earplugs recently, similar in consistency to blue tack, but I found that every time I put my helmet on it would move my ears and loosen the plugs and let the noise in. Ymmv


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Banzai]

Those Noizezz look pretty good.

For people in the greater Sydney area, the Australian Motorcycle Expo is on at Darling Harbour in two weeks time. I know there are a couple of custom earplug stands if anyone wants to go and get some made. Price at the show is usually pretty decent after you've paid for admission ($20, but if you use a code word, which is the name of any major motorcycle manufacturer, admission is "just" $18).
http://www.australianmotorcycleexpo.com.au/

[ausgs]

Those Noizezz look pretty good.

For people in the greater Sydney area, the Australian Motorcycle Expo is on at Darling Harbour in two weeks time. I know there are a couple of custom earplug stands if anyone wants to go and get some made. Price at the show is usually pretty decent after you've paid for admission ($20, but if you use a code word, which is the name of any major motorcycle manufacturer, admission is "just" $18).
http://www.australianmotorcycleexpo.com.au/

was going to go to the show but now going on  ride from thursday to sunday

[Banzai]

No custom earplugs for you then.

[ausgs]

blutack, here I come

[SAFE-T]

We've got two kids that are both interested in riding ~ going to get both of them a set of custom molded earplugs. The wife and I got a set about 5yrs ago and they are very comfortable and make riding more enjoyable.

[Dr.McNinja]

Also, if you think wearing a pair of 30dB earplugs under a set of 20dB muffs means 50dB of protection, you are wrong.
Doubling up ear protection results in a level of protection only slightly higher than the greatest source of protection.  Example. 30 + 20 might equal 33...  can't remember why, exactly...

There are a couple reasons, one, as you said, it's exponential.

Using the power ratio chart here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

In a perfect world, let's say you reduce the noise 30db with muffs and 20db with plugs. 30 would knock out 1000 'power ratio' and 20 would do 100, totaling 1100, a 10% improvement on the 30. Turn that back into decibels and you have roughly 33, what you had originally stated.

Also, ear protection only blocks your ears. Vibrations in your body can still create 'sounds'. So even if you block 100% of the noise from coming through your ear canals sound can still get in.

That being said if you're having problems with hearing after riding you need to buy a new helmet. The primary benefit of wearing a full-face helmet is the large noise reduction in good ones like Shoei's. You are spending good money on helmets...right guys? Also having a windscreen fit for you so the air gets properly sent over your head helps as well. You'd be surprised how quiet you can get the inside of your helmet to be with a little work.

[MarkB]

Also, if you think wearing a pair of 30dB earplugs under a set of 20dB muffs means 50dB of protection, you are wrong.
Doubling up ear protection results in a level of protection only slightly higher than the greatest source of protection.  Example. 30 + 20 might equal 33...  can't remember why, exactly...

There are a couple reasons, one, as you said, it's exponential.

Using the power ratio chart here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

In a perfect world, let's say you reduce the noise 30db with muffs and 20db with plugs. 30 would knock out 1000 'power ratio' and 20 would do 100, totaling 1100, a 10% improvement on the 30. Turn that back into decibels and you have roughly 33, what you had originally stated.

This is incorrect.  Attenuation levels expressed in dB should be added directly, that is, 30 dB muffs + 20 dB earplugs = 50 dB.  Expressed in power ratios they would multiply (adding logarithmic value = multiplying linear value) so 1/1000 * 1/100 = 1/100,000 = 50 dB, so the math says, ignoring second order effects, you would get that attenuation.

Also, ear protection only blocks your ears. Vibrations in your body can still create 'sounds'. So even if you block 100% of the noise from coming through your ear canals sound can still get in.

This is the dominant effect in practice.  With high attenuation levels sound vibrations conducted (mostly through your skull) to your eardrums become significant and aren't effectively blocked by hearing protection so there is a practical upper limit on the noise reduction that can be provided.  The practical upper limit is generally something less than 40 dB.

Link: http://www.audiologyonline.com/releases/effects-doubling-up-on-hearing-4302

[Twism86]

Ah the debate on hearing protection while riding. I do not use nor do I feel it does much good. If you are using it to reduce the annoyance of wind noise, exhaust, etc then go for it. If you feel it is reducing your hearing damage you are more than likely incorrect for two main reasons.

Hearing damage is mainly caused two ways. 1. Prolonged exposure to loud noises (> 80-85 dB) 2. Instantaneous loud noises (varies but anything over ~140 dB can cause instant damage)

The first is less obvious as to what causes damage, as I will explain but the second is not. Basically any loud noise that makes you say "ow" is loud enough to do damage, whether you notice it immediately or not.

Both of these causes are not present for many of us who ride I would say. While yes, we are definitely experiencing over 85 dB on our bikes its (typically) not over a long period of time. If you are not on your bike 4-8 hours each and every day, this is not causing you much hearing damage. That prolonged exposure is what you see as a occupational hazard. I.E. The guy whose job is to use a jackhammer 6-8 hours everyday, 40 hours a week. This is where those "mildly" loud noises over long periods of time cause damage. Most of us do not fit this category on our bikes. How many hours a week do you typically ride? Few approach that "occupational hazard" level. If you have hearing damage and are not riding hour and hours every day, its from something else.

Those instant loud noises, not what we typically encounter on our bikes. I have data from my current bike I will share in a bit.

You also have to consider how well hearing protection works against different frequencies and how loud we perceive them. A very low frequencies does not seem as loud as other but the dB rating (and possible damage caused) is the same.  These low frequencies are not protected as well by ear plugs. The typical low drone of some wind noise falls into this category. When ever you see people measuring noise you may notice that is measured with A or C weighting. This is how the instrument interprets the noise and gives a dB rating equivalent to how we hear the sounds. The A weighting scale is more accurate to the human ear, representing low frequencies as lower dB, while the C weighting scale is a flatter curve, displaying lower frequencies at a higher dB and more accurate to the true noise level. Does this matter? Yes, low frequencies are harmful even if they dont seem as loud. The C weighting scale makes up for this. When you choose hearing protection you will see a dB rating that it reduces the noise by. If the noise is measured in dBA, you can reduce that protection factor by about 7 or 8 dB. If its in dBC, it is accurate. Most noise is measured in dBA, so some plugs are not as protective as you may think....

What im trying to say is that the benefit from hearing protection doesnt really out weight the costs. That is, not being able to hear important sounds around you, due to all these factors. The sirens, cars honking etc are blocked by ear plugs as well. While the low drone of other noises that impede your hearing are not. This along with the fact that some hearing protection is rated "incorrectly" it may not be helping you nearly as much as you think.

Now, to a test I did with my bike (Triumph Street Triple with loud exhaust). I mounted a microphone to my collar and rode about 35 minutes with a noise dosimeter. This records the sound levels multiple times a second. On a highway run my average level was 104 dB. There was a continuous max of 121 dB (prolonged 85 MPH +) and a peak of 145 dB (hard acceleration). I could not get the mic in my helmet but this was the best representation of wind noise+exhaust and ambient. Yes, this is all in the range of damaging BUT this is not something I experience over the course of an 8 hour day, everyday. If I rode for 3-4 hours a day like this, everyday, that would be different. Most of us do not fall in this category so therefore the benefits of earplugs do not make wearing them on short, infrequent rides necessary.

I am a health and safety specialist at a university and I work with this type of equipment and give training on hearing protection. I am able to collect some real world data, interpret it and see how it all relates to hearing protection. Most of the noise from my test, fell in the lower frequency range that ear plugs do not protect you as well from. The accelerations and spikes in noise fell in the higher frequencies obviously. I wont say not to wear protection, but unless you ride a lot its likely not a major contributor to hearing loss.

Tom

PS: Sorry for the essay but I just wanted to interject my understanding on the subject. I am well aware that this information will not make any of you take out your hearing protection.

[ausgs]

Ah the debate on hearing protection while riding. I do not use nor do I feel it does much good. If you are using it to reduce the annoyance of wind noise, exhaust, etc then go for it. If you feel it is reducing your hearing damage you are more than likely incorrect for two main reasons.

Hearing damage is mainly caused two ways. 1. Prolonged exposure to loud noises (> 80-85 dB) 2. Instantaneous loud noises (varies but anything over ~140 dB can cause instant damage)

The first is less obvious as to what causes damage, as I will explain but the second is not. Basically any loud noise that makes you say "ow" is loud enough to do damage, whether you notice it immediately or not.

Both of these causes are not present for many of us who ride I would say. While yes, we are definitely experiencing over 85 dB on our bikes its (typically) not over a long period of time. If you are not on your bike 4-8 hours each and every day, this is not causing you much hearing damage. That prolonged exposure is what you see as a occupational hazard. I.E. The guy whose job is to use a jackhammer 6-8 hours everyday, 40 hours a week. This is where those "mildly" loud noises over long periods of time cause damage. Most of us do not fit this category on our bikes. How many hours a week do you typically ride? Few approach that "occupational hazard" level. If you have hearing damage and are not riding hour and hours every day, its from something else.

Those instant loud noises, not what we typically encounter on our bikes. I have data from my current bike I will share in a bit.

You also have to consider how well hearing protection works against different frequencies and how loud we perceive them. A very low frequencies does not seem as loud as other but the dB rating (and possible damage caused) is the same.  These low frequencies are not protected as well by ear plugs. The typical low drone of some wind noise falls into this category. When ever you see people measuring noise you may notice that is measured with A or C weighting. This is how the instrument interprets the noise and gives a dB rating equivalent to how we hear the sounds. The A weighting scale is more accurate to the human ear, representing low frequencies as lower dB, while the C weighting scale is a flatter curve, displaying lower frequencies at a higher dB and more accurate to the true noise level. Does this matter? Yes, low frequencies are harmful even if they dont seem as loud. The C weighting scale makes up for this. When you choose hearing protection you will see a dB rating that it reduces the noise by. If the noise is measured in dBA, you can reduce that protection factor by about 7 or 8 dB. If its in dBC, it is accurate. Most noise is measured in dBA, so some plugs are not as protective as you may think....

What im trying to say is that the benefit from hearing protection doesnt really out weight the costs. That is, not being able to hear important sounds around you, due to all these factors. The sirens, cars honking etc are blocked by ear plugs as well. While the low drone of other noises that impede your hearing are not. This along with the fact that some hearing protection is rated "incorrectly" it may not be helping you nearly as much as you think.

Now, to a test I did with my bike (Triumph Street Triple with loud exhaust). I mounted a microphone to my collar and rode about 35 minutes with a noise dosimeter. This records the sound levels multiple times a second. On a highway run my average level was 104 dB. There was a continuous max of 121 dB (prolonged 85 MPH +) and a peak of 145 dB (hard acceleration). I could not get the mic in my helmet but this was the best representation of wind noise+exhaust and ambient. Yes, this is all in the range of damaging BUT this is not something I experience over the course of an 8 hour day, everyday. If I rode for 3-4 hours a day like this, everyday, that would be different. Most of us do not fall in this category so therefore the benefits of earplugs do not make wearing them on short, infrequent rides necessary.

I am a health and safety specialist at a university and I work with this type of equipment and give training on hearing protection. I am able to collect some real world data, interpret it and see how it all relates to hearing protection. Most of the noise from my test, fell in the lower frequency range that ear plugs do not protect you as well from. The accelerations and spikes in noise fell in the higher frequencies obviously. I wont say not to wear protection, but unless you ride a lot its likely not a major contributor to hearing loss.

Tom

PS: Sorry for the essay but I just wanted to interject my understanding on the subject. I am well aware that this information will not make any of you take out your hearing protection.

Thanks for that reply Tom,
On the trip before this problem started I was riding for up to 8 hrs at freeway speed's for 2 days then had smaller rides of around 4-5 hrs for a few more days, then 2 more days at freeway speeds on the return trip. It was on the first day things started getting weird all of a sudden the road and wind noise would dramatically reduce as if the volume on the TV was turned right down then 10 mins latter would be back to normal. Very strange feeling.

[Twism86]

No problem, that prolonged 8 hours of noise is that can definitely cause issues if continued. Over the course of a few days there is no doubt you will experience some short term hearing loss which may not be permanent. Of course all of your past experiences play a factor in how much noise you have been exposed to previously. The cold truth is the hair cells in outer ears don't really recover from damage but those short exposures, if given a break in between, will hopefully not lead to serious damage.

I'm no saint even though I work in the business of helping people stay safe. I don't use plugs, I go to lots of loud death metal concerts and blew plenty of things up as a kid with no regard for my ears. I hope your issues resolve themselves soon!

[RossLH]

Interesting write up, Twism. I personally use a pair of earplugs with a filter made specifically to reduce wind noise. Even with my cheap (though Snell M 2010 rated) helmet, no wind screen, and V&H exhaust system, I can ride around for a couple hours at highway speed just fine. I find that without earplugs, my ears ring for a while after I get off the bike, but with the earplugs the noise level is surprisingly comfortable.

That said, this is all anecdotal, no real data. I'm just wondering if you have any input on it.

[GS500F2004]

Ah the debate on hearing protection while riding. I do not use nor do I feel it does much good. If you are using it to reduce the annoyance of wind noise, exhaust, etc then go for it. If you feel it is reducing your hearing damage you are more than likely incorrect for two main reasons.

Hearing damage is mainly caused two ways. 1. Prolonged exposure to loud noises (> 80-85 dB) 2. Instantaneous loud noises (varies but anything over ~140 dB can cause instant damage)

The first is less obvious as to what causes damage, as I will explain but the second is not. Basically any loud noise that makes you say "ow" is loud enough to do damage, whether you notice it immediately or not.

Both of these causes are not present for many of us who ride I would say. While yes, we are definitely experiencing over 85 dB on our bikes its (typically) not over a long period of time. If you are not on your bike 4-8 hours each and every day, this is not causing you much hearing damage. That prolonged exposure is what you see as a occupational hazard. I.E. The guy whose job is to use a jackhammer 6-8 hours everyday, 40 hours a week. This is where those "mildly" loud noises over long periods of time cause damage. Most of us do not fit this category on our bikes. How many hours a week do you typically ride? Few approach that "occupational hazard" level. If you have hearing damage and are not riding hour and hours every day, its from something else.

Those instant loud noises, not what we typically encounter on our bikes. I have data from my current bike I will share in a bit.

You also have to consider how well hearing protection works against different frequencies and how loud we perceive them. A very low frequencies does not seem as loud as other but the dB rating (and possible damage caused) is the same.  These low frequencies are not protected as well by ear plugs. The typical low drone of some wind noise falls into this category. When ever you see people measuring noise you may notice that is measured with A or C weighting. This is how the instrument interprets the noise and gives a dB rating equivalent to how we hear the sounds. The A weighting scale is more accurate to the human ear, representing low frequencies as lower dB, while the C weighting scale is a flatter curve, displaying lower frequencies at a higher dB and more accurate to the true noise level. Does this matter? Yes, low frequencies are harmful even if they dont seem as loud. The C weighting scale makes up for this. When you choose hearing protection you will see a dB rating that it reduces the noise by. If the noise is measured in dBA, you can reduce that protection factor by about 7 or 8 dB. If its in dBC, it is accurate. Most noise is measured in dBA, so some plugs are not as protective as you may think....

What im trying to say is that the benefit from hearing protection doesnt really out weight the costs. That is, not being able to hear important sounds around you, due to all these factors. The sirens, cars honking etc are blocked by ear plugs as well. While the low drone of other noises that impede your hearing are not. This along with the fact that some hearing protection is rated "incorrectly" it may not be helping you nearly as much as you think.

Now, to a test I did with my bike (Triumph Street Triple with loud exhaust). I mounted a microphone to my collar and rode about 35 minutes with a noise dosimeter. This records the sound levels multiple times a second. On a highway run my average level was 104 dB. There was a continuous max of 121 dB (prolonged 85 MPH +) and a peak of 145 dB (hard acceleration). I could not get the mic in my helmet but this was the best representation of wind noise+exhaust and ambient. Yes, this is all in the range of damaging BUT this is not something I experience over the course of an 8 hour day, everyday. If I rode for 3-4 hours a day like this, everyday, that would be different. Most of us do not fall in this category so therefore the benefits of earplugs do not make wearing them on short, infrequent rides necessary.

I am a health and safety specialist at a university and I work with this type of equipment and give training on hearing protection. I am able to collect some real world data, interpret it and see how it all relates to hearing protection. Most of the noise from my test, fell in the lower frequency range that ear plugs do not protect you as well from. The accelerations and spikes in noise fell in the higher frequencies obviously. I wont say not to wear protection, but unless you ride a lot its likely not a major contributor to hearing loss.

Tom

PS: Sorry for the essay but I just wanted to interject my understanding on the subject. I am well aware that this information will not make any of you take out your hearing protection.

Wow, excellent post. Very useful information there.

[GS500F2004]

Could you also elaborate a tad on this dBA/dBC issue?

As far as I understand, dBA is more a representation of how it applies to our human hearing whilst dBC is the realistic "true" measure. So if we see a hearing protection rating given in dBA, we need to lower that value by 7 or 8dB, why?

[MarkB]

. . .

Both of these causes are not present for many of us who ride I would say. While yes, we are definitely experiencing over 85 dB on our bikes its (typically) not over a long period of time. If you are not on your bike 4-8 hours each and every day, this is not causing you much hearing damage. That prolonged exposure is what you see as a occupational hazard. I.E. The guy whose job is to use a jackhammer 6-8 hours everyday, 40 hours a week. This is where those "mildly" loud noises over long periods of time cause damage. Most of us do not fit this category on our bikes. How many hours a week do you typically ride? Few approach that "occupational hazard" level. If you have hearing damage and are not riding hour and hours every day, its from something else.
. . .

This "instantaneous vs long term" argument seems like an oversimplification.  OSHA exposure guidance is proportional to the noise power.  The exposure limit is 8 hours per day at 90 dBA and is cut in half for each 5 dB increase in noise power, thus 4 hours at 95 dBA, 2 hours at 100, 1 hour at 105, 1/2 hour at 110, 1/4 hour at 115, etc.  Based on the data you've presented, it would seem like it doesn't take much of a commute to hit these thresholds on a daily basis if the 120 dBA highway number you cite is a reasonable value.

What im trying to say is that the benefit from hearing protection doesnt really out weight the costs. That is, not being able to hear important sounds around you, due to all these factors. The sirens, cars honking etc are blocked by ear plugs as well. While the low drone of other noises that impede your hearing are not.

I don't entirely agree with this rational.  While hearing protection does in fact attenuate sirens and other environmental cues that we care about, it attenuates everything (approximately) equally.  My understanding is that one's ability to pick out such cues in practice is limited by signal to noise rather than sensitivity.  That is, if we can distinguish the siren in the presence of 100 dBA of interfering noise then we can distinguish it virtually as well if both the siren and interfering noise are attenuated by 20 or 30 dB by earplugs.  This breaks down only as we approach the sensitivity limits of our hearing with attenuation, nominally 0 dBA, which is never going to happen in traffic.

For what it's worth, I use earplugs always, excepting the rare short in-town jaunt.  Like a number of posters have noted above, even if there weren't the potential for hearing loss, it (subjectively) reduces fatigue in my experience.