Low speed city riding drain the battery?

[linker]

I'm wondering because I'm having a problem with the battery or charging system and I read that driving at less speeds than the charging system charges at, can slowly drain the battery. I have been riding A LOT of little quick trips lately only a mile or so and with stoplights. How much riding would it take to drain the battery?

Quick note: the battery is only a year old and I've had the bike a year, put 6k miles on it with only routine maintenance needed.  I've also charged the battery to full power and everything was fine for a week of riding, then back to starting issues again and low battery voltage.

The summary....

My bike wouldn't turn over one day and after repeated attempts at starting it. After multiple tries at different times of the day (waitied til it warmed up outside), I heard a loud clank when turning it off and then just the starter motor whirling.  Read in the forums here the alternator rotor bolt probably came loose, so I opened it up and tightened it (yep, it was super loose).  Then after all that headache and testing and running it on idle for too long after a bump start, the battery finally died almost entirely the next time I went to start it (headlights dimmed and starter motor would barely go).

I plugged it into a charger and got it back to full power, which held constant at about 12.65 volts for almost a week. I had ridden it several times, one was 40 miles on the freeway, and the rest was local city driving about 1-5 miles.  Then yesterday, it wouldn't start again at the store and took more than a few tries and reving it to get it to finally crank over.  It's been starting fine since then, but the voltage on the battery is low (haven't ridden it around yet, just testing voltage and doing a charging system checkup.

I did a full charging system test (http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfault.htm)and passed everything except the battery voltage (numbers lower in the post).  Except, that I couldn't figure out testing the regulator / rectifier because it says to set the multimeter to diode mode and connect from the RR lead and from a yellow lead on the stator, but when I try all combinations it tells me to, I don't get any reading at all on my multimeter.  I sat there and read and reread the instructions and felt like I was doing everything right. It's possible the RR is bad, but the Haynes manual says it's more likely for a high voltage reading on the battery at 5k RPM if the RR is bad or going out, which I'm getting only 13.1-13.3, which is supposedly signs of a bad alternator (which again, doing the charging system check, my alternator readings came out normal). 

Last week after a full charge, the battery read 12.65 and stayed that way for days.  Yesterday it was reading 12.4 volts after sitting for a few hours after the ride that it wouldn't start. 13.5V at 5k RPM.   Today, 12.14 off and 13.1 at 5k RPM. 


Yeah I know it seems like a bad battery, but it's weird that it stayed up at 12.65V for days (with and without riding) after a full charge isn't it??? 

[adidasguy]

3000 rpm is enough to charge the battery.
I run short rides all the time and don't have a problem. (Other than lower gas mileage because half the gas is used to start the bike and sit at stop lights).
You should be getting 14v or more when revving around 4000. Never should go over 15v.
Possibly your voltage regulator is going out.

Exactly what battery do you have?

You can measure the output of your stator/generator. 3 pin connector that goes to the regulator. Unplug. Each pair of wires should have around 70v AC when revving the bike 4000-6000 rpm is a suitable range. 3 wires A, B, C = 3 test: a+b, a+c and b+c. Do not short any of the terminals together. Have a friend help so you can hold things or tape them down and someone rev the motor and watch the meter.

There is also a test for resistance between each pair of the 3 wires.

[the mole]

If you're only getting 13 and a bit volts at 3000+rpm, there's something wrong with the charging system, RR or alternator. I do a lot of riding to work and back and nothing else for weeks, so under 3000 rpm and it keeps my battery up OK.

[AnonRider]

It took about two weeks for my battery to lose voltage when I first started riding, (practicing going up hills)........ got a battery tender and always hooked it up at night. Never had a problem since.

[yamahonkawazuki]

if your ride is under 3k at all times youre riding to high of a gear. 3k you should be hitting. otherwise batt will not charge or charge well. id have a look see at charging system. but to diagnose that you also have to elist the help of your Russian friend, KGB ( Known Good Battery) please update Eh?
Aaron

[linker]

hmmm, ok that helps to have other's experiences as well, it sounds like it may not just be from riding around short trips then.  When I say short trips, I mean like barely getting up to 3rd gear if that before hitting another stop sign or stop light. I'll keep an eye on my rpms riding around tomorrow.

I also plan on doing a check on the RR tomorrow, I found another forum post with a slightly different method of checking the RR than I explained in my post.  The manual says it's more likely the RR is going out if you're over 15V at 5k, and more likely your alternator is going out if you're under 13.5V (or battery of course).  So at 13.1, it sounds like the alternator....but it passed all the alternator and stator diagnostics....so battery?   

I was getting about 65-67V for the stator reading at 5k rpms on all 3 wires (everyone says 70V is good, the manual says above 60). Passed all the other diagnostics ranges as stated in the manual and that website I linked to in my original post.

I'll have to check what battery I own, I don't know and it's cold out.    btw my bike sits out in the cold with a tarp over it (I'm in northern california, so it doesn't get horribly cold here).  So, it's possible cold weather could be a factor too. It's been starting up fine around 35-40 degrees each morning this week....maybe even better than it was before this whole problem.

Thanks for the help so far, really trying to figure this one out and there's just so much to learn about the charging system I never knew about before!  I have a bit of electrical knowledge from working on electrical pump systems a few times or more in a past job, so I should be able to figure this out.   And hopefully help others who find this in a search later on.

[radodrill]

.but it passed all the alternator and stator diagnostics....so battery?   

I was getting about 65-67V for the stator reading at 5k rpms on all 3 wires (everyone says 70V is good, the manual says above 60). Passed all the other diagnostics ranges as stated in the manual and that website I linked to in my original post.

Actually the Suzuki service manual states that under no load a voltage reading below 75V indicates a bad stator.

[linker]

.but it passed all the alternator and stator diagnostics....so battery?   

I was getting about 65-67V for the stator reading at 5k rpms on all 3 wires (everyone says 70V is good, the manual says above 60). Passed all the other diagnostics ranges as stated in the manual and that website I linked to in my original post.

Actually the Suzuki service manual states that under no load a voltage reading below 75V indicates a bad stator.

Yeah you're right, I mis-spoke and meant to say that website says 60V.  The manual says no load voltage should be above 75V at 5k rpm.  I don't know what "no load" refers to if it says 5k rpm, isn't that a load?   The manual also says that if it's below 75V, to check the stator resistance.  I did check that and it passed.  So what does that mean? 

[linker]

An update....

This morning the bike started up great once again.

I checked the voltage before starting and it was 12.35V.
Rode to work (it's only a mile away) and checked again... while off, it was 13.3V, at idle it read 14.4V, and at 5k rpm it read 13.9.  I'm going to keep checking it and keeping notes.

[nathaniel2910]

No load means no force on the engine such as revving in neutral,

[sledge]

No load means no force on the engine such as revving in neutral,

It means no electrical load on the system ie lights etc all off.

The fact the battery is a year old and appears ok means nothing......... a load test is a must and the only way to prove if its serviceable.

An other simple test which may help......unplug the reg/rect when the bike is not being used. If the battery stays up it indicates the reg/rect is faulty and is effectively shorting the battery through the ground causing it to slowly discharge. It happens sometimes when the internal components fail.

This piece of kit is invaluable when chasing charging/electrical problems. It will tell you in seconds if you have an issue.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-53090-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B0001K9V8Q

Every decent bike mechanic I have ever met has one and I can never understood why they are so widely overlooked in here. If you were local (I am in the UK) I would say bring your bike over to my place and you could borrow mine 

[linker]

UPDATE:

So shortly after the last post on this topic, I went over to a local shop where I bought my battery a year ago and asked them to do a load test.  They did and said everything was great, the battery was fine.  They also did a quick voltage test on a few things and said everything seems fine. Then I told them I bought the battery from them (so they weren't influenced or anything!) a year ago and told them a brief summary of what was happening.  He was stumped and said I should just recheck the stator and rect/reg again. 

Well I haven't gotten around to checking again or unplugging the rect/reg overnight like mentioned above, BUT the bike has been running and starting perfectly normal for the past few weeks!  I ride almost every day.

Will update again if things change and if I do the checks and anything is different, but otherwise I'm going to put a big ?? for this post until something else happens!   Like my original post about this, I'm seriously wondering if the slow city driving is what drained it!?

[robfriedenberger]

What type of battery is this? Lead acid ? What are the CCA?

I know a way to test your charging solution.

- Week 1 - Document all your trips with voltage
- Week 2 - Ride it like you stole it  and document your trips.

If week 2 it works better its your driving that needs to change, if not than you got some thing wrong there.

[linker]

I know this post was some time ago, but thought I would update to give anyone who comes here looking for an answer, I hate threads with no ending.

The result is that it never did it to me again, it was just a fluke and I'm thinking it must have been the excessive short trips that did it. I rode it a good 1,000 to 2,000 miles since the post, so it's safe to say whatever it was, wasn't a huge problem.  And lastly, I can't update any further now because the bike is no more.  Totaled in an accident, sent to the scrap yard. A car pulled out in front of me turning onto a busy street.  I'm totally fine, the bike was a total wreck.

[noworries]

Glad you are OK.