MY CAFE BUILD IS ACTING UP, I JUST WANT TO RIDE ALREADY. help please.

[halffttime]

just coming around to finishing my cafe build (will post pics and write-up after EVERYTHING is in order).

the bike is a 2007f engine sitting in a 2001e frame. i have only been out on the bike 4 times so far this season (starting april 2nd). all four occasions have NOT been to joyous. the bike is beautiful and i take pride in it, but there are some work to be done still.

so i decided to ride to work yesterday, at least attempt to. i've recently just rejetted my carbs (thanks to buddah), 147.5 mains / 65 mids / forgot the other one. i haven't installed the 2 small washers yet (not sure where to exactly, and my screws are stripped on top of the carbs). this is my first experience with "mechanical work" on my bike. to be honest my buddies have dealt with most of the mechanical work on the bike while i've worked on the cosmetics.

so as i was riding to work, everything was going perfect for the first half. newly re-jetted carbs, and newly changed oil. the bike felt very smooth, throttle response, etc... the problem came about the second half of the ride.

fuel started leaking out of the drain hose, as well as out of my k&n lunchbox. the leak is a problem i've been having with the bike after dropping it on my first ride this season. at first, the leak was coming out SOLELY from the left side of the lunchbox. at first, it only leaked when the bike was on a lean via the side stand but now will some time leak while on centre stand and while the bike isn't even running. this was the first time the fuel had come out of the drain hose. i noticed the problem about 1/4 into my ride to work but decided to ride along since it was very minor leak (call me stupid but i've been waiting so long to ride this bike i just couldn't resist).

about halfway into the ride (was riding along with a buddy thankfully), as i was coming to a stop the bike suddenly died. it was now leaking more. i decided to continue on to work and didn't get past another block. the bike died again.

the problem, beside the obvious leak that i'm currently trying to figure out, is the bike will not hold its idle. the bike started but would just not stay on unless i held the throttle open.

ANY IDEAS GUYS? BUDDAH?

EXTRA INFO:
- bike is running on open pipes. at times, i gotta start the bike while stuffing the end of the pipe with my hand close.
- i deleted the pair system and tied up the hose that was connected from it to the carbs, can't figure out what to do with that

FUNFACT: came back that night to pick up the bike in hopes of miraculously riding it home. battery was dead and had to jump it. literally took the tank off the bike, and the carbs off the bike at 11pm on the side of a busy street. friend was wearing a rubber glove and it caught on fire as he started the bike with the carbs out and the whole engine basically doused in fuel.

[Big Rich]

Yep, gasoline is pretty darn flammable.

Your float height is probably off on the left side. I wouldn't even bother checking it with a clear tube - just pop the bowl open and make sure everything on the left side is identical to the right side. Might be something out of place, sticking, missing, etc.

[The Buddha]

Float is stuck most likely.
You can shake the bike vigorously side to side and it may get it back ...
Or you may need to open it.

BTW Did you adjust it when it was apart ? usually the 01+ tends to be non drifters, so adjusting it isn't needed, but always check and make sure of course.
Cool.
Buddha.

[halffttime]

also forgot to mention, the engine immediately died whenever i turned the choke on.

[halffttime]

Float is stuck most likely.
You can shake the bike vigorously side to side and it may get it back ...
Or you may need to open it.

BTW Did you adjust it when it was apart ? usually the 01+ tends to be non drifters, so adjusting it isn't needed, but always check and make sure of course.
Cool.
Buddha.

i didn't adjust anything no, just put the new jets in excluding the washers. BTW, from what i've read i understand the 2 tiny rubber washers that came with the kit you sent me, i'm supposed to open up the top of the carbs and insert it in the needle there? again, i haven't had a chance to do that part yet because my screw heads are stripped.

ok. from my observations, carbs are out of sync. the butter flies are slightly uneven, one of them is more open than the other. also, the black slidy thing that slides up and down, one of them also opens more than the other.

[The Buddha]

If you have one of the slides open more than the other and you can actually see it - you may have a rip in the diaphragm that is not opening up as much as the other.

Your out of synch issue wont matter much past say 1/8 throttle.

Cool.
Buddha.

[Sode]

I had similar situation happen to me on Friday. Bike died while riding and wouldn't start back up, getting spark but plugs were wet. I took everything apart this morning and it could have been due to a few items:

1) possible stuck right float (height was in spec)
2) Idle adjustment backed all the way out (butterfly valves nearly closed), this could explain why it dies when you apply choke as there is no air going in
3) Idle mixture screws were screwed all the way in (set these 2.5 turns out)
4) Left cylinder was doing majority of the work and the right carb was backfiring, almost blowing the carb off the intake. I synced it using the "pull one plug at a time" method and got them running equally.

It now runs like a top

[halffttime]

i've been doing a lot of research on the gs500 carbs for the past day and i'm about to slap mine back on.

running an open pipe with k&n lunchbox, with 147.5 mains and 65 mids... also running with deleted pair system. i basically just

is there a proper write up for a k&n lunchbox swap with the rejet anywhere?

the original air box had a drain hose and the k&n lunchbox doesn't. so i'm wondering, a slight leak coming from the lunchbox, is that normal? when should il be worried?

[Big Rich]

I dunno about a proper write up for a lunchbox install, but there's plenty of info of you search around for it.

Did you ever get your float height checked? That is going to be the biggest reason for a leak out of your filter. The drain hose from the airbox is for moisture from the crank case vent tube (the hose from the top of the engine that connects to the stock airbox). When installing a K&N filter, the crank case vent isn't connected to the filter, so a drain hose isn't connected either.

[halffttime]

so i finally got the bike started again.

current situation:
- again, like i said, i'm running open pipes with the lunchbox filter
- carbs are rejetted with 147.5 mains and 65 mids courtesy of buddah
- after having leaking in the carbs and the filter, i disassembled it and put the new jets on. i also cleaned it with pinesol and carb cleaner, adjusted the fuel mixture screw 3 times out, and used a gasket maker around the oem gaskets for the float bowls just to ensure things are sealed properly
- i just got some new spark plugs on it, ngk iridiums
- OK, at first, the bike ONLY started after i muffled the open pipe with cloth towel and placed another cloth towel over the lunchbox filter
- the first time i started it, a small amount of smoke started coming out of the carbs and filter, i'm thinking maybe because there's gas mixed with the oil inside the engine?
- the bike starts without either now
- no leaks but it's too early to test for that now

questions:
- am i using the right jets for my current set up? it seems to me like the carbs are getting too much fuel and not enough air (hence why it only started in the first place when i covered the filter).
- for those running a lunchbox filter with a slip on, what jets are you using? did you have any problems after originally slapping those on and rejetting?
- if the bike running too rich is the problem, what are the proper procedures to go ahead with to fix this problem?

THANKS A LOT GUYS. I KNOW THERE IS A SEARCH BUTTON, BUT BELIEVE ME I HAVE DONE MY FAIR SHARE OF SEARCHING TODAY ALREADY.

[Janx101]

I don't mess with carbs in reality .. Not yet anyway ... But something stood out in the last post ...

and used a gasket maker around the oem gaskets for the float bowls just to ensure things are sealed properly

Like gasket goo? .... Have used the stuff here and there .... And not doubting your ability in doing so ... But wondering if it's necessary in addition to OEM gaskets ... And if it didn't go to a perfect seal OR some of the goo got loose inside the bowls and gummed up something else ... Wouldn't that create a leaky situ??

It just caught my eye is all ... 

[halffttime]

I don't mess with carbs in reality .. Not yet anyway ... But something stood out in the last post ...

and used a gasket maker around the oem gaskets for the float bowls just to ensure things are sealed properly

Like gasket goo? .... Have used the stuff here and there .... And not doubting your ability in doing so ... But wondering if it's necessary in addition to OEM gaskets ... And if it didn't go to a perfect seal OR some of the goo got loose inside the bowls and gummed up something else ... Wouldn't that create a leaky situ??

It just caught my eye is all ... 

gasket goo exactly. i used it vary sparingly and wipe it down really well, it's just to ensure the seal is proper, there wasn't any problem with the seal in the first place but i've changed the bolts so just in case.

the problem came about BEFORE i used the gasket goo, just to remind you.

[The Buddha]

With lunch box and pipe you can be rich especially @ idle if you made a couple mistakes ...

The famous float being stuck, you've been bit by that already ... and fixed it.

Then you get the mains and mids in the right place ? Not cross them ?

Cool.
Buddha.

[halffttime]

With lunch box and pipe you can be rich especially @ idle if you made a couple mistakes ...

The famous float being stuck, you've been bit by that already ... and fixed it.

Then you get the mains and mids in the right place ? Not cross them ?

Cool.
Buddha.

yea man, i checked the floats they're good. mains and mids are also good, i double checked before putting them on. again, the only thing i didn't bother doing was shimming the needles, not exactly sure how and couldn't for the life of me figure out how to remove those needles from the slides.

what i'm just wondering though is why is it at times i have to cover up the lunchbox and pipe with cloth for the bike to start, but at other times it starts perfectly fine without either.

[The Buddha]

There may be intermittent fuel flow type issues.
OK so how does it run when after it starts and its not needing things covered ?

Cool.
Buddha.

[Big Rich]

Are you using the choke to start it every time? My 450 always needs the choke on a cold start, my 650 would only need choked when it was bitter cold out.......

[halffttime]

okay guys....

so i haven't actually ran the bike on the road yet to test for possible leaks, but so far so good. i've been running in it in my garage just to fix the idle issues that i'm dealing with.

BOTH OF THESE TESTS ARE DONE WITH THE CARBS HAVING THE NEW REJET KIT. 147.5 MAINS / 65 MIDS.

AGAIN, LUNCHBOX FILTER WITH OPEN PIPE.
- the bike does start, but struggles sometimes and the air lunchbox and open pipes need to be covered in order for it to start
- the idle is just too off, it's too high, i'm talking about 5-6000
- i'm using an ace well 27** gauge, i'm not sure how accurate the rpm reading on that is
- every time i try to bring the idle down, even warmed up, it won't let me bring it down under 3000rpm without struggling and eventually dying
- when i rev, the rpm just hangs and hovers. i realized that the open pipe really causes this. when i cover the pipe with a cloth in my hand while i rev, the rpm is still slow to come back down but it doesn't hover like it does when it's open

THIS IS IS WHAT HAPPENED WHEN WE PUT ON THE STOCK EXHAUST I HAD LYING AROUND, AND STOCK AIR BOX
- the bike idles a lot better and definitely starts a lot easier
- it will allow me to have a lower idle than the lunchbox/open pipe would, although i still couldn't get it to the 1200-1500 range
- the rpm comes back down way faster when it's revved. i'm not sure if it's as fast as a PURE STOCK GS500 because i honestly forgot how that was like

QUESTIONS:
- I really want to run the open pipe i have with the lunchbox filter, anyone have an idea how i can do that while fixing the idling issues?
- I'm playing around with the balance screw as well as the idle screw to fix the idle, is there a trick to it? Tightening either brings the idle down I realized, but is there a technique you guys use with those?

[halffttime]

bump

[Big Rich]

The balance screw shouldn't be touched unless the carbs aren't balanced. Get a carb sync tool and balance the carbs.