Clutch Question

[DoktoroKiu]

So I was moving my bike around last night before I started tearing her down to check the valves and I was reminded of an issue I've been wondering about.  Coming from driving 5-speeds my general impression has been that clutch in ~= neutral.  I've never noticed a difference in coasting in neutral vs just putting the clutch in.

When moving my bike in first with the clutch in last night I experience some noticeable drag, though.  Being a moto-newb I must ask: is this normal for motorcycle clutches?  I know that there is going to be some drag from the oil vs actually being disconnected in neutral, I just didn't expect it to be so noticeable.

When I first got the bike I noticed this, and I tried revving to 8-9k in first with the clutch in and didn't get any forward motion, so I figured it wasn't an issue.  But I have had one or two times where she has lurched on a cold startup when in first.

[Suzuki Stevo]

VERY normal, especially when the engine/oil is cold

[TwistedKestrel]

Not so much a motorcycle thing as it is a wet clutch thing. The cold oil on the clutch makes the plates stick together a bit. Having so many experiences with weak motorcycle batteries over the years (in various bikes, not just the GS) I generally always start it in neutral just to make it a bit easier on the bike... plus then I have a free hand to fiddle with the choke.

[DoktoroKiu]

Not so much a motorcycle thing as it is a wet clutch thing. The cold oil on the clutch makes the plates stick together a bit. Having so many experiences with weak motorcycle batteries over the years (in various bikes, not just the GS) I generally always start it in neutral just to make it a bit easier on the bike... plus then I have a free hand to fiddle with the choke.

Glad to hear it's normal behavior.  It makes sense now that it was worse after having sat for a day.  The shortness of my legs also exacerbates the problem.

Nice tip on starting in neutral; I wouldn't have thought about the extra strain on the starter circuit.  I did it so many times in the MSF course that it was second nature to start in neutral once I got out.  I only changed because I figured it was good to use the kickstand cutoff feature as a way to make sure I don't start it with the stand down (looks silly when you go to take off and it dies when you shift into gear, although not as silly as riding with the stand down would).  I was actually starting in 1st and then shifting to neutral to free up my hand while I waited for her to warm up.

[jsyzdek]

Having so many experiences with weak motorcycle batteries over the years (in various bikes, not just the GS) I generally always start it in neutral just to make it a bit easier on the bike...

I almost always start in neutral, just to make it easier on the starter. I'm not concerned about my battery. Li-ion has tons of juice, and doesn't have problems with hard sulfatation...

[TwistedKestrel]

Having so many experiences with weak motorcycle batteries over the years (in various bikes, not just the GS) I generally always start it in neutral just to make it a bit easier on the bike...

I almost always start in neutral, just to make it easier on the starter. I'm not concerned about my battery. Li-ion has tons of juice, and doesn't have problems with hard sulfatation...

Well, in your case, it could theoretically make a difference if it was cold enough

[jsyzdek]

Well, in your case, it could theoretically make a difference if it was cold enough

Yup. Although it would have to be really cold. According to the spec sheet (http://www.gylling.no/produkter/batterier/a123/A123%20Datasheet%2026650M1B.PDF) for the cells I used to build the pack, I should be in good shape at -15C (5F). I don't think I would dare to ride when it's that cold

[robfriedenberger]

Besides the additional strain on tr starting circuit, Adidasguy and I came to the conclusion that starting in gear can and may lead to problems with the stater clutch


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[Joolstacho]

And then there's that bad habit...  'riding' the clutch (holding it in, in gear stationary at the lights etc). People do this and wonder why their clutch wears prematurely!
Too easy just to snick it into neutral as you come to a halt.

[rexpepper651]

And then there's that bad habit...  'riding' the clutch (holding it in, in gear stationary at the lights etc). People do this and wonder why their clutch wears prematurely!
Too easy just to snick it into neutral as you come to a halt.

dang! i do this all the time! thanks for the tip

[JAS6377]

And then there's that bad habit...  'riding' the clutch (holding it in, in gear stationary at the lights etc). People do this and wonder why their clutch wears prematurely!
Too easy just to snick it into neutral as you come to a halt.

dang! i do this all the time! thanks for the tip

I don't just because I generally stretch out at stop lights. Can't really do that while holding the clutch lol. Mind you, I always keep my foot on the rear brake for the brake light.

[jsyzdek]

I switch to neutral whenever I can when at a red light. It is always nice to strech a little

it's so much easier to do it when your neutral indicator is a little brighter LEDs win!

[gsJack]

And then there's that bad habit...  'riding' the clutch (holding it in, in gear stationary at the lights etc). People do this and wonder why their clutch wears prematurely!
Too easy just to snick it into neutral as you come to a halt.

dang! i do this all the time! thanks for the tip

I've always done that too, put 80k miles on my 97 GS and have over 100k miles on my 02 now.  When does the premature wear show up?

[Suzuki Stevo]

And then there's that bad habit...  'riding' the clutch (holding it in, in gear stationary at the lights etc). People do this and wonder why their clutch wears prematurely!
Too easy just to snick it into neutral as you come to a halt.

Actually MSF instructs pupils to leave it in gear and hold the clutch in, so your always ready to get out of harms way in a hurry, this and always having an escape path is a  MC 101 survival skill.

[robfriedenberger]

Eh I've heard it from both sides of the fence, usually I put it in to neutral when ever possible due to past injuries to my hands from playing rugby and American Football.

[jdoorn14]

For me it depends a lot on the circumstances. If I've just missed the light and I know it's a long one, I'm going to leave it in first with the clutch in until one or two cars stop behind me. Once I have a buffer I'll usually pop into neutral if I've still got some time on the light.


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[DoktoroKiu]

And then there's that bad habit...  'riding' the clutch (holding it in, in gear stationary at the lights etc). People do this and wonder why their clutch wears prematurely!
Too easy just to snick it into neutral as you come to a halt.

Actually MSF instructs pupils to leave it in gear and hold the clutch in, so your always ready to get out of harms way in a hurry, this and always having an escape path is a  MC 101 survival skill.

This is definitely drilled into your head in the MSF course, and I 100% agree with it.  I will do what jdoorn14 describes sometimes, but I like keeping her in first so I'm ready to go.  In addition to getting rear-ended by a cager (my first official use of this term by the way) you are tempting our old friend Murphy to enforce his law and give you a rough shift.  It happens frequently enough in my 5-speed where the light turns green and I try to put her in 1st to no avail (usually a jiggle or two and a shift into 2nd or 3rd solves the issue).

My left thumb loves the neutral idea, but he's just going to have to man up.

[jsyzdek]

when I come to a light, usually there are cars there already and I'm right in between them (or squeeze ahead of them) 
Lucky for me - pedestrian lights here have timers on, so I know exacly how much more time I have and put it in 1st a few seconds before it's time to go. 

[Suzuki Stevo]

This is definitely drilled into your head in the MSF course, and I 100% agree with it.  I will do what jdoorn14 describes sometimes, but I like keeping her in first so I'm ready to go.  In addition to getting rear-ended by a cager (my first official use of this term by the way) you are tempting our old friend Murphy to enforce his law and give you a rough shift.  It happens frequently enough in my 5-speed where the light turns green and I try to put her in 1st to no avail (usually a jiggle or two and a shift into 2nd or 3rd solves the issue).

My left thumb loves the neutral idea, but he's just going to have to man up.

Once I get to a stop and there isn't a bunch of traffic and my rear view mirrors say all is Ok I will pop it in "N", but 90% of the time I just hold in the clutch, wet clutches can be held in as long as you want, it's your hand that takes the beating.