Horrendous "clacking" during startup and idle

[FreshGroundPepper]

All of the sudden I have noticed a "ticking" or "clacking" in my engine, most noticeable at idle. I have seen a few of these threads that point to valve clearances, but I change my valve shims no less than 9 months ago. It ran fine for months (including a few hundred mile weekend trip), so I don't believe it is the valve clearances.
I also notice an incredible CLACK... CLACK... CLACK... when trying to start (either from cold or warm). They both started simultaneously so I'm 99% sure they're related.

Aside from valve shims, I haven't done anything major. I did replace the oil before winterizing last fall, also a brake fluid flush.

ANY help to get me started is greatly appreciated!

I have two videos as well. The first is of the startup clacking, the 2nd is at idle.

as usual, the videos don't quite do the sound justice. The videos lessen the high pitches which are enough to make me wince as I turn it over.

Thanks a TON!

2004 GS 500f
~11k

[prmas]

Starter clutch, Jack? 

[gsJack]

Sounds like starter clutch, I'd pull the lower left cover and check that first.  Starter clutch knocks hot or cold at idle up to 2 or 3k rpm some say 4k and doesn't knock above that.

[FreshGroundPepper]

Sounds like a start to me. Thanks gentlemen, I'll start repairs tomorrow when I get home from work, then report back!

[robfriedenberger]

Yep on the starter clutch, mine went away after 4 k ish and no it doesn't always effect starting

[FreshGroundPepper]

Well it was nice out here in the PNW so I put the M's game on and went to work...

Two questions:

1) How does one get that main bolt off? I read elsewhere to put it in a high gear and sit on the rear brake while turning and it will come loose. That got me close but it ended up slipping every time.

2) What exactly am I looking for? I've never been to this part of my bike before

[gsJack]

Addy made a video on pulling the rotor worth watching:

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=58403.msg768574#msg768574

It would be easy to break that bolt holding the rotor loose with an impact wrench but I don't even have electricity in the garage where I keep my bike.  I tried breaking it loose with a 18" long breaker bar with a piece of 2x4 thru the rear wheel spokes above the swingarm to hold the wheel and the clutch slipped just before it broke loose so I eased it up to the slip point and gave it a big jerk a couple times and got it.

With the cover off can you tell if the clutch which should be bolted tight to the back of the rotor is loose?

[prmas]

Hey Jack, how come you don't have lectrisity in your garage? Do you live out in the boonies? I have been saving all my electricity by turning off anything not is use as it is getting very dear now in OZ. I have some spare electricity lying around here somewhere! Perhaps I can send you some sparks in a can! 

Macka

[gsJack]

Hey Jack, how come you don't have lectrisity in your garage? Do you live out in the boonies? I have been saving all my electricity by turning off anything not is use as it is getting very dear now in OZ. I have some spare electricity lying around here somewhere! Perhaps I can send you some sparks in a can! 

Macka

Actually I live in an apartment complex near the center of town and park the car outside.  Got a garage across the street in a row of garages behind another building to keep the bike in and they don't have electricity to the garages.  We are moving tomorrow to a house out in the country and it does have an attached garage with electricity.  So after moving from the center of town to the boonies I will finally have electricity in the garage.   

Will be tearing down our desktops, printers, etc and packing them away in a few hours and don't know how soon I'll be connected again so if I don't respond for a day or two you'll know why.  Movers will be here at 8:30 am tomorrow to load us up.  While we have our seperate desktops (wife and I) we have a shared laptop that I might get a turn on before desktops are setup again.   

[gsJack]

FreshGroundPepper, my bike started knocking a few miles from home on my first ride of the season this spring so I had only gone a short distance until I got back home to check it out. When I first pulled the left cover everything looked good to me and I buttoned it up and went on to pull the top and left covers in turn looking for the knock without success.  Later after a couple of test rides and a lot of running time in the garage I pulled the left cover again and the  loose starter clutch had loosened considerably more and the problem was then obvious.  You may have to pull the rotor before you are sure whether the clutch is loose or not.   

[noworries]

Ya see the flats on centre spigot of the rotor housing? This is the tool that slips in there and uses the flats to hold it all nice and tight while you remove the centre bolt. Once the rotor is prevented from moving, a bit of a tap on the ring spanner or socket bar should jar the centre retaining bolt into motion. Now don't rush off and buy this item cos with a drill and an angle grinder and a file and a bit of patience and a couple of beers, you can knock the tool up real quick out of a bit of scrap plate.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-nos-oem-Universal-Clamp-rotor-holder-09930-44510-/170975733834?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cef2a84a

But, really, the easy way is an air gun or an impact driver….should just pop that centre bolt out no problem.

[FreshGroundPepper]

Well... I'm making SOME progress, but before I go too far, I'd like to find (and get shipped on the way to me) a gasket but I'm having trouble finding one. Anybody who knows what theyre doing help me out?

[robfriedenberger]

I'd never pay that for that tool thats insane.....and also check out your local sealership or http://www.suzukipartshouse.com/?gclid=CIK8hN7J2r8CFehaMgodX0QA9w

[FreshGroundPepper]

Finally found a gasket at partzilla. I'll report back when I have more news.

[bmf]

I used a vice-grip with the chain attachment to hold the rotor , had a thin rubber strip to prevent scratches. That with an old fork for leverage and the rotor remained motionless while I removed the bolt. Think about locktite 660 to lock the rotor in place if you see scratch marks on the tapers (after you sanded the marks down of course)


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[FreshGroundPepper]

FreshGroundPepper, my bike started knocking a few miles from home on my first ride of the season this spring so I had only gone a short distance until I got back home to check it out. When I first pulled the left cover everything looked good to me and I buttoned it up and went on to pull the top and left covers in turn looking for the knock without success.  Later after a couple of test rides and a lot of running time in the garage I pulled the left cover again and the  loose starter clutch had loosened considerably more and the problem was then obvious.  You may have to pull the rotor before you are sure whether the clutch is loose or not.   

On this (and others in the thread), did you have to actually replace the clutch? Or just re-tighten the bolt, or other parts?

[FreshGroundPepper]

Well I FINALLY got around to fixing this... After a lot of work the noise seems to have gone away. Luckily for me though I think I have 1 (if not 2) more issue(s).

First is a leak in my electrical somewhere as my battery seems to be dropping way faster than it should and my light occasionally stays on after I turn the bike off and pull the key out (yes with the key out of the ignition).

Second, there's now a VERY noticeable clicking when idle and at low RPM's. It's sounds very much like it needs a valve adjustment, unfortunately I just did that about a thousand miles ago... So I have NO clue what's going on.

wonderful

[FreshGroundPepper]

Okay, well after ignoring it for the last month of summer, putting it away for the winter, and finally getting it back out, I need to fix this.

The good news is I've got the bolt off! Now I can't figure out how to get the clutch assembly off.

In adidas' video he mentions the spacer + a bolt to push through, but as far as I can tell the bolt he suggest is not the same size as the bolt that actually belongs in there. To me that doesn't make sense, but if it IS correct, I'll buy a bolt of the right size, plus cut a spacer from something.

Can somebody confirm it is indeed just a M14 x 1.5 bolt plus a 33mm spacer? Also, if that's the case, if I found (unlikely, just curious) an M14 x 1.5 bolt that was an extra 33mm long would that work too?

Thanks everybody for your help. Also, I'm praying it is indeed the starter clutch and not a crankshaft balancer bearing as adidas once had. RIP man cause that is a job I really don't want to do. Opening the crankcase just to replace a bearing is a real PITA.

video i'm referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxS5yZ44AHU

[Jimbob]

Yeah i had an issue with my starter clutch and i used a rattle gun to get the main bolt off.
I cant remember the size of the spacer but yeah that goes in then the bolt which pushes the starter cluth off which then gives you access to the 3 bolts which come lose and get striped. If they are lose then I would replace them

[gsJack]

...................Can somebody confirm it is indeed just a M14 x 1.5 bolt plus a 33mm spacer? Also, if that's the case, if I found (unlikely, just curious) an M14 x 1.5 bolt that was an extra 33mm long would that work too?

It's a 14mmx1.5x45mm bolt needed to pull the rotor off and I made my 36mm spacer by sawing a piece of the smooth shank from a 3/8" carriage bolt.  The length of the spacer is more important than the length of the bolt, it fits down into the threaded hole in the end of the crankshaft so the M14 bolt can press on it to pull the rotor without messing up the thread in the end of the crank.