A Stock GS is an awesome bike...

[Big Rich]

How about the Suzuki Boulevard S40?

Old school? Air Cooled? First marketed as the Savage in 1986...still sold.

There are more of them...old bikes that the manufacturer's have gotten tons of mileage out of...without many improvements.

Just read this.... and I've thought about a "Retro" bike Suzuki could bring back pretty easily. The old GS400 - with a kickstarter. They basically have the engine already.....

[sledge]

Wrong, I enjoy discussion with people who agree and those who don't

Er..... except me obviously 

I don't care for discussion with know it all's who think their opinion is word from god.

Me neither but you are arguing not just with me but with the opinions of worlds motorcycling press. I am nowhere near as knowledgeable or experienced as them........are you?

I just place value on different things than you do.  Tell me you disagree, fine no problem.

I have disagreed with.......... and there IS a problem 

The GS sold for 25 years because people like it

Obviously ........but it went on for about 15 years past its best before date. WHY? because Suzuki left it on the market at a cheap price, obviously it was still making them enough money to warrant carrying on with producing it even at the relatively low list price and in low numbers.

But let me ask you a question........if Suzuki had put an extra say 2k on the list price and pitched it against the modern day competitors how well would it have sold and lasted?......see my point?........ They couldn't charge the same as the competition because it was nowhere near as good as the competition,.......Has it gone in yet? can I rest my case now?

When it died it was a very dated machine with little appeal other than the fact it was cheap to buy and run ....... Obviously fine by you......but not everyone else, particularly those who wanted something more for their money..........get over it.

[dennisgb]

But let me ask you a question........if Suzuki had put an extra say 2k on the list price and pitched it against the modern day competitors how well would it have sold and lasted?......see my point?........ They couldn't charge the same as the competition because it was nowhere near as good as the competition,.......Has it gone in yet? can I rest my case now?


Sledge,

You really are a smart guy so why would you say this? If Suzuki could see a market for a better 500 that they could get $2K more for they would do it in a heartbeat. They would never try and sell the old GS500 for more money...that makes no sense. It isn't just Suzuki bleeding blood out of a turnip...many examples of this. There is a point of diminishing return. If you make a decision to just sell it, that is what you do. The GS500 is still sold in some markets...so it isn't completely dead.

Now, a new bike...a new design costs a lot of money in R&D and tooling. The margin has to be there...but motorcycle sales overall have been declining for years...so where do you put your money? In bikes that you can sell for more money, not on entry level low margin bikes.

Don't be surprised if the other 3 of the big 4 don't come out with competition for the Yamaha 400...but it won't be a completely new design costing $8K...

[NYNJ8]

I'm over it.  But for the record I agree with most of what you are saying about the GS.  I'm still maintaining that in spite of those things I still find it a great bike.  Price has everything to do with it I'm not denying that.  Heck, my truck cost me $40K but if the dealer would've tried to charge me $42k then I would have walked right out of the dealership.  I don't think your example proves anything.  Not the greatest bike out there but all things considered I find it great.  That's all.  You cant tell me otherwise based on what other people think because I'm speaking only for myself.  Kind of like telling a man his wife is ugly because there are better women, and because everyone else thinks so.  Beautiful in the eye of the beholder, no?

I've drooled over Dennis' 919 and I'm thinking that may be my next bike.  The GS may pale in comparison but I think I will still enjoy it.  The SV was a better bike on paper but I still prefer the GS package.

Now we can move on to more enjoyable convo... hatchet buried

[MeeLee]

Although the GS500 can take 80MPH all day long, you don't have that much more power.

You're correct about that...but you can downshift if you need to pass or get out of trouble.

But I can't deny, that performance wise, most Hondas I've ridden performed better than the Suzukis. Overall better gas mileage, less likely to have jet clogging, more power in the low rpm range, I can't speak of longetivity. Haven't had bikes long enough to say anything about that, as usually my bikes last me 3-9k miles, before swapping them out.

I don't agree with this. I own and have owned a number of Honda's and performance is relative. Most reviewer's actually pick on Honda for having less performance to comparible bikes. I don't know if I agree with that but I think it may be true as Honda has a tendency to dumb down performance to increase reliability. They are definitely the most reliable bikes I ride. Always start, where the Kawasaki's I've owned were always bears to start. I've had 3 Suzuki's and they were/are pretty good bikes. My 800 Volusia was one of the nicest factory detailed bikes of any I've owned. A good runner too.

My experience is that by default, to get top speed, and best usability in 1st gear, you'd have to increase front sprocket by 1t, or the rear reduce by -3t on any Honda.
The Suzuki stock, comes with about the most optimal gearing for top speed.
Aside from that, the Honda 250cc Rebel, is actually a 234cc, their 500cc bikes, are 471cc (or something), always lower to meet emissions (and with future emissions in mind, so they can keep selling the bikes without modification for a few years).

The GS is the only Suzuki I've ever owned (though I've ridden a TU250x before).
The GS stock has a limitation on the air intake. The Hondas pretty much have most optimal air intake (you could install a K&N, but only find your performance will be the same or less).

All I'm saying is, of the 2 Hondas I've owned, and 4 I've ridden, most of them had lower cc's than their model number indicated, and most of them needed a sprockets change, because 1st gear sucked (shifting before crossing an intersection), and top speed was revving too high on those bikes (like outside of HP peak curve).

The GS performed better with a better air filter, and a rejetting.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Good GOD dennis, i am impressed with the bikes mentioned in sig

[NYNJ8]

MeeLee - I had my TU250x for a while and was a regular on the tu250riders forum when I had it and I have to say that going from a 15t to a 16t was the most common mod done.  The 15t on that bike was just silly and almost unusable for experienced riders.  I'd estimate that 80% of owners changed out the sprocket within the first few months.  And the reviews from those who changed were at least 90% positive.

I'm pleased with the stock GS gearing but I could see myself going to a 17T down the line.  Were I live I end up cruising in 5th when I'd prefer to be in 3rd and 4th.

[Kijona]

It's amazing how fragile the ego can be.

[sledge]

If Suzuki could see a market for a better 500 that they could get $2K more for they would do it in a heartbeat.

They tried.....it was called the Gladius

The GS500 is still sold in some markets...so it isn't completely dead.

The factory in spain was shut down at least 2 years ago, maybe they shipped off the tooling and they are being made in tiny numbers under license somewhere for a country that doesn't bother about emissions, I don't know. Point is.......we wont see them in the western world again

where do you put your money? In bikes that you can sell for more money, not on entry level low margin bikes.

That's decision for the directors and will be based on many many factors...we can only speculate on whats right and wrong

Don't be surprised if the other 3 of the big 4 don't come out with competition for the Yamaha 400...but it won't be a completely new design costing $8K...

I wont....I said its not a new concept earlier  and you agreed with me.  In fact as far as I am concerned the SR is late to the party. Honda have the CB1100F, Kwak have the W800 which looks like it rolled off the Triumph line in 1965 and Suzuki already have the TU and it would make sense just to increase its capacity to compete with the SR,

[dennisgb]

Good GOD dennis, i am impressed with the bikes mentioned in sig

Those are bikes I own right now...it's sort of an ever changing list although the GS500, Honda 919, and Honda Trike will always be there and the Norton will be buried with me 

The CBR's are projects although 2 of them are together and running. One is a MotoGP RR conversion. The other's are original Hurricanes. I love the technology in the CBR's even the old ones...still pushing 100 HP and fast as hell. I don't like the riding position for anything more than hitting the twisties in Minnesota and Wisconsin tho.

When I got back into riding a few years ago I jumped all over the map because there were so many choices and I wanted to make motorcycles a side business in retirement. I love working on them and riding. I had been away for a while so had to learn what would fit, and how better to do that then own them. I try to buy right so I can at least get my money back if I don't like them. Last year I actually made about $14K although I put it right back into more bikes. I look for low mileage examples for the most part.

I bought a Honda Shadow Aero first...then sold it. Got a 2010 Yamaha Stratoliner 1900 that I got a herna moving around the garage. It was a beautiful bike but just too heavy. I had a Volusia and a Volusia Trike. I've owned a number of other bikes over the years. Mostly British. I bought a Norton Commando new in 1976...that is why I have this one...which is being restored in my shop. Upgraded suspension and brakes to make it safer. Along with other custom touches. It will be on the road again in 2015.

What I found at my age is the upright, universal bikes are the easiest to handle and ride. The cruisers are okay, but they are like riding a tractor compared even to the GS500. The Norton's were very good handling bikes in the day and very flickable. When you get on a Norton after say my Vulcan, it's like riding a bicycle. Very light, with low weight. Feels like it weighs 100 lbs. The 919 is like that too.

[dennisgb]

Kwak have the W800 which looks like it rolled off the Triumph line in 1965

A little history lesson. It is little known that Kawasaki produced a 4 stroke parallel twin as far back as 1963.

I know British bikes like the back of my hand. The reason the W800 looks like a 1965 Triumph is because BSA Licensed the 500cc A7 design to Meguro Motorcycles in the 1950's. Meguro was acquired by Kawasaki in 1960. They obtained the licensing agreement.

Meguro K1

http://www.jarlef.no/Kawasaki/Images/W/1960Meguro500K1.jpg

Kawasaki produced the "K" models of the BSA A7 the first one under the Kawasaki name was the K2 in 1963.

http://www.jarlef.no/Kawasaki/Images/W/1964MK500K2.jpg

They also produced the K3 in the 70's

http://www.jarlef.no/Kawasaki/Images/W/W5/73W3RS1.jpg

The W650 and W800 are later versions of this British Twin Copy.

All of these bikes are very collectable even the later ones.

[MeeLee]

MeeLee - I had my TU250x for a while and was a regular on the tu250riders forum when I had it and I have to say that going from a 15t to a 16t was the most common mod done.  The 15t on that bike was just silly and almost unusable for experienced riders.  I'd estimate that 80% of owners changed out the sprocket within the first few months.  And the reviews from those who changed were at least 90% positive.

I'm pleased with the stock GS gearing but I could see myself going to a 17T down the line.  Were I live I end up cruising in 5th when I'd prefer to be in 3rd and 4th.

I've done some searches myself on the suzuki tu250x.
together with Gearing commander, you can actually find the sprocket setup that works best for you.
For me, that would be changing gears to reach top speed in 4th or 3rd gear, and use the other 2 as overdrive gears.

Usually that would mean going 2t up in front, AND 3 down in rear, or going up 1t in front, and 5 down in rear, to get upto about 20% higher gearing from stock.
You just got to make sure that 4th or 3rd gear is optimal for top speed (about 75 to 80mph on the tux), and your final gear (5th) can cruise the bike at 35-40mph without lugging. On those bikes that would be 3-3.5k rpm to go 40mph (legal speed limit in city).
5th gear you can use until 65-70mph or so, then downshift to 4th to go faster.
Runs pretty nice like that in the city as well, less shifting to do, as gears are longer.

[yamahonkawazuki]

Dennis, sorry to threadjack, but any chance you could make a thread about the bike stable. If i had to pick one, at least the norton

[dennisgb]

Dennis, sorry to threadjack, but any chance you could make a thread about the bike stable. If i had to pick one, at least the norton

I appreciate the interest. I will look into putting something together. There are some pictures of my 1987 Honda Hurricane "RR" conversion bike earlier in this thread on Page 2 and 3. This is a bike I bought for $300 and have been turning into a 2004 CBR600RR MotoGP replica.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=68326.40

[Ron888]

....... isn't just Suzuki bleeding blood out of a turnip...many examples of this. There is a point of diminishing return. If you make a decision to just sell it, that is what you do. The GS500 is still sold in some markets...so it isn't completely dead.

Now, a new bike...a new design costs a lot of money in R&D and tooling. The margin has to be there...but motorcycle sales overall have been declining for years...so where do you put your money? In bikes that you can sell for more money, not on entry level low margin bikes.................

On this particular point,i suspect we wont see a GS500 replacement for years,if ever. Simply because Honda recently flooded the market with three versions of a GS500-like machine (same power and mass)

[Ron888]

On the original point- that the stock GS is awesome, i must say i'm conflicted.
Yes it definitely is better than it has a right to be!They got it spot on first time out!!

On the other hand,its the kind of bike that's never QUITE exciting enough IMO.It often makes me feel ...Meh.
It's all made worse that i know nothing i can do to it will ever make it much better.There is no way anyone can get exciting amounts of power out of the motor.It's also ridiculously expensive trying to lose useful amounts of weight.
I'm sure it could be turned into an exciting machine if the motor was sensibly modified and put straight into something like a GP3 chassis.But who would do that?Why not turn something like a yamaha WR450 into a roadracer style road bike instead? Or simply buy the new KTM RC(?)390?

Such is life with the GS- condemned to something slightly better than mediocrity ,with only small benefits :-(

[Zithromax]

I suppose everything works off of comparison. Compare a new 2014 Cadillac CTS with a 1950's Cadillac and yea... The new one has more features and performance. There are still people that like the 50's model Caddy though.

I ride with guys who like bikes that look like Elvis's butt. My '04 GS500 looks like Star Trek compared to their world war II Harleys and Victories, so I still consider it "new fangled" even if it's "antique" to everyone else.

[MeeLee]

On the original point- that the stock GS is awesome, i must say i'm conflicted.
Yes it definitely is better than it has a right to be!They got it spot on first time out!!

On the other hand,its the kind of bike that's never QUITE exciting enough IMO.It often makes me feel ...Meh.
It's all made worse that i know nothing i can do to it will ever make it much better.There is no way anyone can get exciting amounts of power out of the motor.It's also ridiculously expensive trying to lose useful amounts of weight.
I'm sure it could be turned into an exciting machine if the motor was sensibly modified and put straight into something like a GP3 chassis.But who would do that?Why not turn something like a yamaha WR450 into a roadracer style road bike instead? Or simply buy the new KTM RC(?)390?

Such is life with the GS- condemned to something slightly better than mediocrity ,with only small benefits :-(

I actually like that it doesn't have too much power on the lower RPMs (no way to accidentally lose traction on a dry concrete road), and picks up power where it's needed, like a turbo (higher RPM means more power).
If you want fast acceleration, shift around 9k RPM.
If you want economy riding, shift around 3,5-4k rpm.

I would have wanted perhaps 20-25% more power on the low end, so the engine would be able to pull a bit better at low RPM, but I'm still content the way it is.
I just keep the tach above 3k RPM, and all is good!

[PantheraLeo]

On the original point- that the stock GS is awesome, i must say i'm conflicted.
Yes it definitely is better than it has a right to be!They got it spot on first time out!!

On the other hand,its the kind of bike that's never QUITE exciting enough IMO.It often makes me feel ...Meh.
It's all made worse that i know nothing i can do to it will ever make it much better.There is no way anyone can get exciting amounts of power out of the motor.It's also ridiculously expensive trying to lose useful amounts of weight.
I'm sure it could be turned into an exciting machine if the motor was sensibly modified and put straight into something like a GP3 chassis.But who would do that?Why not turn something like a yamaha WR450 into a roadracer style road bike instead? Or simply buy the new KTM RC(?)390?

Such is life with the GS- condemned to something slightly better than mediocrity ,with only small benefits :-(

I actually like that it doesn't have too much power on the lower RPMs (no way to accidentally lose traction on a dry concrete road), and picks up power where it's needed, like a turbo (higher RPM means more power).
If you want fast acceleration, shift around 9k RPM.
If you want economy riding, shift around 3,5-4k rpm.

I would have wanted perhaps 20-25% more power on the low end, so the engine would be able to pull a bit better at low RPM, but I'm still content the way it is.
I just keep the tach above 3k RPM, and all is good!

Sounds like your GS is growing on ya, MeeLee....

I have found best acceleration at 8-8500 RPM shift, although YMMV. 

It is not the fastest bike, nor the most economical on gas...but it does a lot of things pretty well.  I ride with a group of riders who are driving bikes like: a Ninja 650, a Z1000, a yammy fz6r, and an SV-650.  While all of those bikes (with better riders, to be sure) dust me in the straights, I am able to keep up comfortably in the turns for the most part.  Am I looking forward to my next bike?  Hell Yeah, I am.  But it is so much fun learning to ride on this GS.  Those guys have all taken turns riding the GS and are impressed with what it does, how it handles, etc.  "Fun to ride" is frequently heard when they hand me the key back.

[Zithromax]

We could change the name of this topic to "Post reasons WHY the GS is a terrific bike" because I can go on these forever!!!

Here's one for today... I needed to pick up the dune buggy 60 miles away. I ride the bike to the shop, jump in the buggy and drive it home and return in the truck for my bike. I'm a 350 lb guy riding a 400 lb bike.

My dad is a 220 lb guy riding a 720 lb bike. He can't load it in and out of the bed of his truck without a lot of help. I ride up and down the ramp with no problem. It's a street bike, but easy to handle as a dirt bike. Get to ride my bike AND buggy in one day?!

WIN WIN!!!