'90 GS500e Stalls in neutral when clutch lever is pulled in

[younghartwig]

First off, this is my first bike and I've come to find my first project bike as well. 1990 with 6k miles on it. Looks like it has been dropped but didn't seem to be anything wrong mechanically, other than a leaky fork seal. Replaced that, and got the carbs cleaned out by a mechanic, which took care of some problems it was having starting. Recently I was about to go for a drive when it stalled as soon as I put it in 1st.

The clutch cable seems to be tight enough, and after searching the threads I believed the clutch was just gummed up and needed to break free. So I warmed up the bike in neutral, went to give the clutch lever a squeeze or two and it stalled. Now I'm completely stumped. Any ideas? I need to know if I'm looking at a whole new clutch, or a new cable, or if there's something else horribly wrong.

With the bike off and in 1st, it doesn't move with or without the clutch engaged.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[Slack]

Welcome to the forum.

Did the clutch work fine before you took the carbs off an replaced the fork seal?
Or was this the first time you've ever tried to ride since purchasing the bike?

[Suzuki Stevo]

Did 1990's have the kickstand safety switch?

If so, was the kickstand down?

[Slack]

Did 1990's have the kickstand safety switch?

If so, was the kickstand down?

With the kick stand down you can still pull in on the clutch (I think) It dies when you shift into 1st.

[younghartwig]

Welcome to the forum.

Did the clutch work fine before you took the carbs off an replaced the fork seal?
Or was this the first time you've ever tried to ride since purchasing the bike?

Yes, the clutch worked before (and after) I took it to the shop. I rode it home no issues, although the next day it had a flat so I got a new front tire. After I installed that I went on a ride for about 15 miles no problem. The next day I tried riding it up a slight hill and noticed some power issues (it wouldn't go above 30 mph, throttle was slow to respond) and it stalled out on me once. Slowly rode it home and that's when the stalling in first / neutral started to happen. Also, when it stalled in neutral, it was idling fine, and could rev up fine.

And I checked, there's nothing except the spring on the kickstand. So no switch issues there.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me out!

[W201028]

Sounds like alot of question marks there, so you had power loss before the stalling came about?

Suzuki Parts House shows a kickstand switch for the 90 model, although they might be recycling microfiche. Check again, the switch is not on the kickstand, but on the frame, it is pushed by a square piece on the kickstand right behind the mounting bolt.

Also, watch your neutral light at idle, see if it is flickering or not on at all. I suspect this is a combination of problems, but I wouldnt leave out fuel issues either.

[younghartwig]

Sounds like alot of question marks there, so you had power loss before the stalling came about?

Yes, although just that one time. It seemed fine the day before.

Suzuki Parts House shows a kickstand switch for the 90 model, although they might be recycling microfiche. Check again, the switch is not on the kickstand, but on the frame, it is pushed by a square piece on the kickstand right behind the mounting bolt.

I see the bracket where this would be mounted, it would appear a previous owner removed it

Also, watch your neutral light at idle, see if it is flickering or not on at all. I suspect this is a combination of problems, but I wouldnt leave out fuel issues either.

I'll double check it, but I don't recall it being flickering or low at any point.

[younghartwig]

The neutral light is alive and well, although I should also note that the oil was low after the low power incident so i topped it off. When I bought it he said he had changed the oil that week so I didn't think it needed a full oil change, although he could have been lying but I doubt it.

[W201028]

Oil level is important, but I dont think it is a factor here. Im thinking the po removed the kickstand switch and bypassed it by connecting the wires.
The kickstand switch stops the bike when it is in gear only and the kickstand is down.
The neutral switch tells the bike when it is in gear.
The clutch switch tells it when the clutch is pulled, allowing you to start in gear (neutral switch open) with the kick stand up only.
I have an 09, and I have to pull the clutch every start, no matter if im in gear or have the kickstand down. The older models may not require the clutch to be pulled to start, im not sure. My 81 xs650 did not, but that is very old. Anyway, I would look for the kickstand switch wires, it could be they are not well connected anymore and may be shorting to ground. I dont know for sure, but this could be causing the stalling. If it only stalled in gear I would be sure this was the problem, but since it stalls in neutral too I was thinking a combination of neutral switch and kickstand malfunction. But theres no telling what a short in a safety switch might do.
Maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in.

[younghartwig]

Hello again! So finally found time to check the relays and they were rather corroded. I'm not sure if that would have an impact on the malfunctioning of the switch but i figured I should clean it off anyways.  I wasn't able to trace the wires from the relay to see where he may have bypassed the sidestand switch...to do so I'd have to take apart far more than I'm comfortable with at the moment.



That's what it looks like. I have a feeling that a lot of the connections are going to look like this. Should I take the time to go through and clean all of it, or will that not really affect the bike?

Thanks again for your help!

[The Buddha]

That is bad, was it a seaside bike
Anyway you have to clean out all the connections. There are plenty that are very important.
Cool.
Buddha.

[younghartwig]

That is bad, was it a seaside bike
Anyway you have to clean out all the connections. There are plenty that are very important.
Cool.
Buddha.

Thanks for the input Buddha. From what I know about it, it's been in Nevada pretty much always. Checked all the other connections I could get at and this was the only one that looked like a 30 year old mistreated car battery. Almost clean now I'll let you guys know if it gets up and running.

[younghartwig]

Ok. So here's where things stand:

• Sidestand relay switch is cleaned up and looks like new(ish)
• Engine starts no problem, and (once heated up) throttle engages fine, no problems, very responsive
• clutch appears to be working normally
• Engine cuts out when put into first.

To me this makes it seem like the somehow whatever the bypass was, it's now having a reverse affect, where the bike thinks the stand is ALWAYS down. Is there a quick test for this, like starting the bike in first?

Also if you were a bypass for the sidestand switch, where would you be? 

[gsJack]

I park my bike in neutral in the garage but once outside it is always in gear.  When I stop I kill engine by putting kickstand down.  I restart with kickstand up, bike in 1st, and clutch disengaged(squeezed) every time ready to pull away.  That's on my current 02 with clutch switch functioning.  Been riding it for 12 years and 100k miles. 

On my previous 97 I bypassed the clutch switch. It would stop when put in gear after started like you describe but it was more like my 4 previous Hondas that didn't have clutch switches.  It's a long time ago and I forget the details but have you checked your clutch switch for a bypass?  On the older GSs you could open the headlighr housing and unplug the 2 wires coming from the clutch switch and just plug the 2 wires they connected to together, one male and one female.

Some of my current riding habits I described are to adjust to my tired worn out used up 82 year old legs.  The rest of me is still good as new!   

[W201028]

If I were going to do it to my bike, I would cut the wires and either hook them together with a butt connector, or leave them open, depending on how the switch works. Im not sure if the switch is normally open or closed. Either way, I would shrink wrap them or cover them in electrical tape, and pull them up on the frame somewhere far from splashed water.
The switch was mounted to the bottom of the frame, and on my 09 the wires come from the switch to the center of the frame where the center stand mounts, then up the back of the motor with the drain tube and other wires, towards the battery box it looks like.
I would pull the seat and the tank, and look for any wire that ends without plugging into something. Like I said, most likely wrapped in electrical tape.

[younghartwig]

Sorry for the delayed update, work started getting busy again and I ran outta time to work on the bike.

I no longer think it's an electrical issue, mainly because i put it in first while on the centerstand, and it didn't cut the engine. however the clutch does not seem to be disengaging at all.

I've adjusted the cable on all 3 points (included the screw one behind the plate with the two screws on it) and the play seems appropriate, but it doesn't seem like pulling in the lever is actually doing much. It does a little because i'm able to (gently) move apart the pressure plates when i pull the lever (I can see it through the oil cap) but they do not move on their own.

And the bike continues to stall when put into first. If I try to start it in first (clutch lever pulled) it lurches forward with the turn of the engine.

I'm thinking I need to replace the clutch cable, or the clutch plates. From the PO's receipts, it would appear that he had new plates installed in February, so I doubt that is the issue.

Should I replace the cable or am I missing something?

[Shepa]

Maybe your clutch plates are stuck together for some reason (possible spring malfunction, or they're assembled in a wrong way).

Sent from my toilet seat using HTC FartPhone

[younghartwig]

Perhaps...I took out the clutch cable to see if it showed signs of wear or stretching, and it looked almost new.

The inside of the case had a lot of sludge though, and a bunch of washers for some reason in it. They didn't look like they belonged so I cleaned that out...I'm real close to calling it on this bike and just buying new 

[W201028]

Last owner probably had the washers stacked at the end of the clutch pushrod to get more travel. I cant remember, does the gs500 have a ball bearing at the end of the pushrod, or am I thinking of my old xs? Could be the last guy literally dropped the ball when changing the clutch and decided to rig it instead of investigating.