Threw a chain today

[Watcher]

Riding around with some friends, hanging off in turns, going modest speeds, having fun, then as I'm braking to come to a stop I feel my rear end completely lock up.  I let go of the rear brake and nothing, so I keep even pressure all around until I come to a stop.  I look down to see my chain hanging really loose, and on a closer inspection it had completely jumped ship!

I untangled it, pushed the bike off the road into a nearby parking lot, and tried to see if I could slip it back on bicycle style since noone had advanced enough tools to screw with my rear end.  We got the chain back on, and this is the result.



If you can't tell from the pic, several links are twisted.  The bike is unridable.  Fortunately, someone in the group lived nearby and ran home to get his trailer.  So we got the bike home.

It was a total hard-luck moment.  Just this morning I had hit the limit on my chain tension adjustment and although the slack was a little over the desired amount it's been worse so whatever.
I go to the local parts place looking for a new chain.  All they have is 120 link chains and I didn't feel like breaking it apart to fit.
So I figured I'd just order a new chain tonight and the old one would last another few days at least.

Nope.  Stretched extremely quickly to the point it could fall off and did.  Luckily it didn't happen at a high speed or in the middle of a turn!

Now, after talking to some of the guys I know they are saying I should never put a new chain on an old sprocket.  I've only ever changed a chain on a bicycle and didn't change those sprockets ever.  Unfortunately, I'm in a position where this is my only vehicle and it NEEDS to be on the road tomorrow.  I can get the chain and a chain tool from the parts store and get it on the bike tomorrow, but I highly doubt anyone (not even a dealer) is going to stock a GS500 sprocket set.
How detrimental will it be to the chain?  If it's only ridden for a few days (at most a week) on the old sprocket before switching to a new sprocket will I see any sort of adverse affects?  Should I order a new chain with the new sprocket?  I can't afford to wait, if it's going to cost me a second chain it's going to cost me a second chain, but if I can avoid buying a second chain I'd like to.

Any recommendation on where to buy a sprocket set and which brand?  For my last GS500 I wanted different highway gearing so I ordered a SunStar 17 tooth front sprocket off eBay and it seemed decent enough quality.  I'd like to go up a tooth again, I liked that gearing, but I have no experience with the rear.

While I'm at it, IIRC the stock set is 16 front, 110 link chain, and a 39 rear, right?  I remember going up to 17 in front and not changing the chain length.  At the same time the chain was about half way out on the that bike at the time and I did have to bring the tire in on the swing arm a little.  Should I be using a longer chain for that?

[Big Rich]

Putting a new chain on old sprockets is kind of a toss up with the info you provided. How bad are your current sprockets? If they look like they are in great shape, and you'll only be putting on a hundred miles while you wait for new ones, I'd say go for it. If they are worn badly and you put a thousand miles on while waiting.... no bueno .

Don't know if I read that right, but are you looking at going even larger for the front sprocket? If so, an 18 tooth might be tough to find.

[twocool]

IMHO  from that photo....that rear sprocket looks totally worn out!


Also the chain looks totally rusted!  (as does the rear arm!)

poor maintenance = big troubles!


Just sayin'  maybe it's just the photo...

cookie

[gsJack]

A 17/39T set of sprockets will only shorten the center distance between sprockets by .148" so no problem with a standard 110 link chain.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=44849.msg502495#msg502495

At the risk of causing cookie to tear out his hair I would say that chain looks better as far as rust goes than mine ever has in the spring after riding all winter here in NE Ohio.  I've never worn out a chain or reached the limit of adjustment, I changed them when they got too badly kinked.

Also I've never replaced a rear sprocket so the one on my 100k mile 02 GS now has 100k miles on it.  Changed the front sprocket about every other chain or so.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GSbrakechainlog_zpsxhij7ktz.jpg

Your rear sprocket doesn't look that bad to me but the front might give you a bit of trouble with a new chain, you'll hear it clicking when coasting down to a stop in gear if the teeth are hooked badly from wear.

[twocool]

So jack...the fact is that the chain DID fall off...


So you are saying it didn't?  It just got in a bad mood and fell off?

Properly maintained bikes...chains just don't fall off...

When I see a rust bucket...I get suspicious...just sayin...

Really, in a fuzzy photo...you really can't tell how worn out the stuff is...

But something made that chain jump off and jam...and the something, whatever it is, needs to be addressed...


Is it really worth it to ride a crap chain and sprockets and risk ending up in the hospital when it falls off and takes you down?  Or to spend a few $$$ to replace rusty crap and do the proper maintenance?

Up to you I guess..

Cookie






Cookie

A 17/39T set of sprockets will only shorten the center distance between sprockets by .148" so no problem with a standard 110 link chain.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=44849.msg502495#msg502495

At the risk of causing cookie to tear out his hair I would say that chain looks better as far as rust goes than mine ever has in the spring after riding all winter here in NE Ohio.  I've never worn out a chain or reached the limit of adjustment, I changed them when they got too badly kinked.

Also I've never replaced a rear sprocket so the one on my 100k mile 02 GS now has 100k miles on it.  Changed the front sprocket about every other chain or so.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GSbrakechainlog_zpsxhij7ktz.jpg

Your rear sprocket doesn't look that bad to me but the front might give you a bit of trouble with a new chain, you'll hear it clicking when coasting down to a stop in gear if the teeth are hooked badly from wear.

[Watcher]

Chain is rusty and neglected.  It's an old worn out chain, and I ride in all weather conditions.

Sprocket is old, not destroyed but not in good shape either.  New sprocket set is on the way (ordered a 17t front while I was at it).

Rear arm is NOT rusty.  Just dirty and stained from old chain slapping it.


Got the new chain and tools today, sprockets won't be in until tomorrow.  Don't know if I can wait the day to put the chain on, depends on if I can borrow a vehicle from someone for a day.  Will 100 miles on the old sprocket set ruin the chain?

[gsJack]

Watcher, looks like the rear sprocket will go another 100 miles with a new chain but we can't see the front one.

twocool, yes the chain came off as Watcher told us it did and he told us why, it was worn out and with the wheel at full adjustment the chain was still too loose.  A little surface rust is insignificant comparerd to it's worn out condition.  I've had rusty chains that bad or worse every spring for the past 30 years that were still safe and sound. 

Couple pics of my bike in early spring a couple years ago, I spray on a little WD40 to darken the orange color and it looks good as new if you don't get too close.   


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[twocool]

You like rusty chains.....I don't...whatever.

From the additional pictures...that bike is a POS...just another disaster waiting to happen..IMHO..

But then again, the Motto of "Mad" magazine:  "What, me worry?"

Cookie

Watcher, looks like the rear sprocket will go another 100 miles with a new chain but we can't see the front one.

twocool, yes the chain came off as Watcher told us it did and he told us why, it was worn out and with the wheel at full adjustment the chain was still too loose.  A little surface rust is insignificant comparerd to it's worn out condition.  I've had rusty chains that bad or worse every spring for the past 30 years that were still safe and sound. 

Couple pics of my bike in early spring a couple years ago, I spray on a little WD40 to darken the orange color and it looks good as new if you don't get too close.   

[sledge]

You should know Jacks philosophy by now Twocool 

"I have done 1,000,000 miles, it didn't happen to me, therefore it wont happen to you!"

I wish I could be as optimistic 

[Watcher]

Chain replacement isn't going to happen today.

In addition to securing a vehicle to borrow for the next day I did run into some compounded issues. 
The front sprocket has severely worn out splines and likes to roll around on the output shaft.  Output shaft splines look like they got some abuse but are still 90%, the sprocket splines are like 50%.  Also looks like the last owner changed the sprocket but used the pre-'94 sprocket without the flange so it had side to side play as well!  I didn't want to reuse that.

The rear sprocket did have some damage from the lock up, it had a few tips of the teeth worn down or broken off.  Not substantial enough to render the sprocket unusable, but it was still heavily damaged.

And finally a few of the studs on the hub were damaged and need to be replaced.  I was unable to find a suitable replacement at local sources so I'm either going to modify some bolts on a grinder to seat in the hub or I'll have to order some from Suzuki.  It's an odd stud, flanged but with a sort of half moon shape.  A regular hex bolt will work if I grind 1/8" off of one flat, or maybe I can get a socket-head allen bolt to drop in and use a tool on both sides...  We'll see.

It's ending up costing me more than I thought.  Including a chain break tool and a set of snap-ring pliers (what happened to the ones I had, damnit!?), I'm in about $250...  At least I'll have some tools now, though, and a little more knowledge!

[gsJack]

Guess I really have been wasting my time around here.

[twocool]

Awwww, now Jack...don't go a pout...We still "love ya"....(even though your chain is old and rusty)

I figured you'd have developed a bit thicker skin by now...


Sorry dude!


Cookie

Guess I really have been wasting my time around here.

[twocool]

Seriously...from the photos, that bike looks kinda "rough"...

Some might say "sketchy"....

I'm not sayin' every bike has to be a Beauty Queen....In fact I think "Rat Bikes" are kinda cool in their own way...

Dents, dings, scratches, cracked fairings, surface rust...really don't mean much in the overall scheme of things....

But...motorcycles are potentially dangerous...there are certain parts which you don't want to skimp on....brakes, tires, drive train, etc.

I'll leave you with a simple, two-word concept...which it seems people nowadays seem to have a really hard time grasping:

Preventative Maintenance

Just sayin'


Cookie

[Janx101]

(Pinches bridge of nose) .... "nope not getting involved" ... sigh

[metatron]

Well seems like everybody has their own opinions about this lol.
I remember 2 incidents as a kid that made me very wary of the drive train. The first I was sliding through a corner on a 250 off-road, chain jumped, locked up the back wheel and I did cartwheels through the air (wearing jeans and a tee shirt, learnt about safety gear too) The second I was helping push starting a 1970-odd Bultaco 350, bike started and then the chain snapped - touched my hair on the way past.
In short personally I do not trust suspect chains and sprockets.
While on the subject, has anybody tried Supersprox Stealth sprockets? Not sure of the price in USA but they are made there so should be cheaper than here - I got a quote for the GS of around $180 (including chain). The sprockets are aluminum & steel, much lighter than steel sprockets and last about double lifespan of steel.
Only reason that I mention this is my brother-in-laws whole club now use them, across a wide range of superbikes and KTM has won chamionships with them for the last 12 years or so.

[Watcher]

I don't see how aluminum would last longer than steel.  Aluminum is softer in most applications, and although they have aluminums with hardnesses equal to some steels, steel will still be stronger.

If its a hybrid aluminum and steel I could see it being lighter than all steel and stronger than all aluminum...

[metatron]

Yip its Bi-metal. Have a look at the guarantee http://www.supersproxusa.com/our_guarantee.php

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