Bent valve?

[johnny ro]

Gentlemen,

Today I checked the clearances and left exhaust was about 0.12mm.  Supposed to be 0.03-0.08mm per the book.

The Suzuki valve bucket depressor tool is really difficult to get to work, so I remembered, pop a tie wrap's fat end in there above the valve when the valve is open.

I went up one shim size, rechecked and it is now 0.4mm not 0.07mm.

I did not pull the engine over with the tie wrap in place.

Used the 19mm wrench on the right crank end to rotate, and only clockwise, per the book.

Did I bend a valve?

My compression checker is up in the mountains, wait 3 weeks before I see it. 

I left the bike as is, covered her up, valve cover off.

Thanks for ideas.

[The Buddha]

WTF is that tie wrap's fat end ? Like a zip tie ?
What is pulling the engine over ?? If you cranked it over with a valve held open, you could have hit the valve with the other valve.
Cheap way to see for bent valve is, put that chamber at TDC on compression stroke, take off the exhaust and carb and spark plug and shine a light in all 3 holes looking for light in the other 2, and yea do it in darkness, not bright daylight.
Cool.
Buddha.

[johnny ro]

Yes zip tie = tie wrap

Good idea on the light leak check

Will look for borescope too. A fun tool to have

Pull through was an aircraft term back in those days. You pull on the propeller.

[The Buddha]

So where did you get the idea to hold the valve open with a zip tie ?
You spin the motor over with a valve hanging open you're asking for it to get hit by the other valve. GS doesn't have piston to valve interference, so you're getting off light with no piston damage.
Now since your issue is 1 exhaust valve only, you can get by without taking off the carbs. I would guess. Shine a light in the exhaust and looks for light in sparkplug hole and vice versa.
Cool.
Buddha.

[mr72]

If I'm reading this right, sounds like you used the zip tie to hold the valve open (at the seat) while changing shims, right? And you didn't turn the motor while the zip tie was used to hold the valve open. If this is true, then Buddha's worry that you may have bent the valve yourself while working on it is likely unfounded.

What can bend the valve is carbon buildup on the edge of the valve, and opening and shutting that valve on the carbon a million times can bend it. I learned this the hard way.

[johnny ro]

I rotated with the zip tie while jiggling into place. I did hit resistance. I will pull the exhaust and shine the light. I think I could have been safe if I did not use the end, instead use a looped middle section. Or get the hang of the tool.

This adjustment was last step before going back on the road.

I can always ride the Wee Strom.

I will read the manual on pulling the head next.

Thanks

[johnny ro]

...fails the light test, it comes in the exhaust when looking down the plug hole. 

Intake clearance is unaffected so I think only one valve is bent.

So I get a prize for offing up here?

Tiewraps are recommended in the SV forum and have worked fine in past on my 2001 SV.

The worst part of this is at the end of the session, I finally figured out how to hold the correct tool in a finicky exact position to push down properly and reach in with my ground down angled needle nose pliers and a dental pick to get the shim started up. 3 tools, two hands. 

So now I map out removing head and putting in new valve.

I see people get the heads off with engine in frame, loosen engine mount bolts.

Also there is some trick to separating head from cylinder without separating cylinder from crankcase. Thoughts on this? The engine has nice looking black paint now with no missing chips.

Very clean looking for an '89 white.

I will be pissed if I find a foreign object in there, but the tie wraps came out intact and nothing else went in.

[herennow]

no, barrels will probably come loose and when you remove the head there are some spots where dirt collects that WILLl fall into the crankcase and cause you to have a panic and have to flush the crankcase out with diesel, ask me how I know. .....

[mr72]

You can't likely just replace the valve. You should do the whole top end rebuild while the head's off. Do the valve seats and at least grind the original valves you are keeping, otherwise replace them. You are doing most of the labor of an entire top end rebuild by just pulling the head.

IMHO

Sorry to hear you have a bent valve. I think they are probably more common in GS500s than we care to admit.

[The Buddha]

The general idea is you spec the barrels out and put the right piston and rings in - AFAIK, no stock rings are available so you're stuck with 1/2mm over.
If its super low miles, you can actually put it back without changing anything on the cyl/piston - just swapping out the base gasket. Like lift it out, clean the mating faces, put new base gasket in and put the cyls back on the pistons.

Yes head is best handled with seats, valves and everything else cut to match. If you find a good machine shop its all pretty much $50-60. As in about the same as that gasket set.

And 89's do not have the front brace on the left side, they have it dead center between the frame rails like by the exhaust ports. They are very hard to get anything out, very hard to get the motor out and in and nightmare all around. Get the motor out and work in the wide open space. Dont try to do this in the frame.

And you may be the first one to eff this up with a zip tie, I'll give you that, I have heard of every hack with a ziptie but never this one.
Now make sure by turning the  motor over a few more times that it is the valve that's bent causng your problem and not a chunk of carbon.

Cool.
Buddha.

[johnny ro]

I wish it was a 0.3mm carbon chunk but I bent that valve with an 18mm wrench on the crank and a tie wrap in the cylinder. SOP for the SV, which has higher valve lift I guess.

I sent a PM to Buddha for this.

Can he let me know if it arrived to him. I am unable to tell by looking in the PM area of this site.

Thanks

[herennow]

Don't feel bad, we have all down stupid things like that, we just dont admit them in the open  😉

[The Buddha]

Don't feel bad, we have all down stupid things like that, we just dont admit them in the open  😉

What, no, we're all damn proud of doing these stupid things.

Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

With all the mad lads and lasses we got here - has anyone tried to pull the studs out of the block on this and replacing it with bolts.

I have done it but on a savage and actually it has run since. Just that its got a few other problems so I haven't beat it to the point where I know my fix will hold.

The savage only has 4 studs, so I removed the nut in the head and lifted the head 2" or so. Used a vice grip on the shank and undid it from the block. I believe I replaced it with that same stud using lock nuts jammed in the head and loctite for the threads in the block.

Now the better option may be to replace the studs with a bolt like kawasaki uses. But well, its done and back together. Just not run hard enough to prove or disprove it.

Cool.
Buddha.

[johnny ro]

Don't feel bad, we have all down stupid things like that, we just dont admit them in the open  😉

I distinctly remember using a looped tie wrap on the GS500f for this purpose. IT is the lump end which was too much for the valve, and then the moderate pull on the wrench is probably the fatal move.

I have done worse, far far worse. Very far. Radio back strap screw into a VW bug gas tank, Fire dept. and Insurance claims on customer car.

[johnny ro]

<a href='https://postimg.cc/gxH9ZfGS'; target='_blank'><img src='https://i.postimg.cc/gxH9ZfGS/GS-side.jpg'; border='0' alt='GS-side'/></a>

I am probably posting a picture of the bike wrong. Lets see. This ia an apple desktop

[johnny ro]

works on my screen, try another

<a href='https://postimg.cc/RNfxMWyz'; target='_blank'><img src='https://i.postimg.cc/RNfxMWyz/GS-rear.jpg'; border='0' alt='GS-rear'/></a>

This is for Buddha

[The Buddha]

Yea that's gorgeous. You're killing me. White cowl and belly pan. Yikes that's gorgeous.

Cool.
Buddha.

[johnny ro]

The black motor looks good from two feet away. A few edges have paint which if you try, with a fingernail, will lose a small flake. Touchup looks good from one foot away when applied. 

The bike will be turned 180 degrees and slid sideways to the wall, where it will nest nicely under the parts shelf. Actually almost completely out of the way for the duration, until I have the desire and courage to rip it all apart again.

After that, if success, put in the emulators and springs up front.

If I had an Egli Vincent, it would perform the same function; sit and look good in the garage. My old SRX250 was good at that.

The "next bike" pipeline is now empty, and I am thinking Versys 300. Will go sit on one Saturday. A used one popped up near Boston, none in stock at dealers. Shim UNDER bucket valve adjustment!

[The Buddha]

The sit and look good function and work hard as an erstwhile "shelf" to hold up small parts. Yea my bikes work those 2 well too.
Cool.
Buddha.