Conversion to LED bulb in Headlight

[ShowBizWolf]

Thanks for the reply Ben! That's really interesting and I'm sure you're not the only one who makes it that easy 

Had some time after getting home from work earlier (only had to go in for about 3 hours) and wanted to mess with it more before heading over to my parents soon.

Following the instructions I found on motorcyclistonline.com, (with the exception of the distance thing... was at 19' instead of 25') I determined that my low beam was way too high. So was my high beam. That would explain why when I'd switch to high beam in the past it was awful... it was trying to light up the moon lol !!

Lowered it down to where it should be, based on those instructions and I'll have to take it out on a small test ride maybe later tonight when I get home or tomorrow. If it's all good then I can put the nose fairing back on and call it a success! Oh and post some pictures too 

[ben2go]

Thanks for the reply Ben! That's really interesting and I'm sure you're not the only one who makes it that easy 

Had some time after getting home from work earlier (only had to go in for about 3 hours) and wanted to mess with it more before heading over to my parents soon.

Following the instructions I found on motorcyclistonline.com, (with the exception of the distance thing... was at 19' instead of 25') I determined that my low beam was way too high. So was my high beam. That would explain why when I'd switch to high beam in the past it was awful... it was trying to light up the moon lol !!

Lowered it down to where it should be, based on those instructions and I'll have to take it out on a small test ride maybe later tonight when I get home or tomorrow. If it's all good then I can put the nose fairing back on and call it a success! Oh and post some pictures too 

You're welcome. Good luck with the test ride.

[mr72]

BTW I got a new LED headlight for Christmas and installed it this afternoon. Fit and works great.



It came from Amazon.

7 Headlight Harley, Eyourlife Jeep Wrangler Headlights Led Headlights Round With High Low Beam For Jeep Wrangler JK TJ Harley Davidson https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DUDR90C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_.PeyybQ0GWMMT

FYI I am going to buy a pair for my Jeep. It really transformed the look of the GS! And it should really improve visibility.

[Big Rich]

Good stuff Josh! It doesn't say in the link - are they DOT approved?

[mr72]

- are they DOT approved?

I seriously doubt it. It appears identical to the trucklite lights, sans American brand name and claim of DOT approval.

One other interesting thing, in high beam both the lower and upper (low beam) LEDs run.

Fwiw I was after better day time visibility and lower power consumption, not really appearance or night time illumination.

[ShowBizWolf]

That's wonderful mr72!! You and your GS got a Christmas present Light looks cool 

I finally went for my test ride and it was amazing. My high beam actually does something helpful (really should have looked into that before now lol) and I feel like I can see a lot more in general. When I got home a bit ago I adjusted it up just a tiny bit. Now it should be perfect.

I'll upload the pictures hopefully tomorrow when I have some down time at work. Right now it's time to eat... I'm starving!!

[ShowBizWolf]

Ok here are some comparison pictures... first the bulb next to the stock one:




A picture of the new bulb installed. Fits perfect, you can't even tell the difference!


The rubber grommet fits correctly too:


Haha whoooo bright !!


Low beam comparison. Stock bulb on the left, LED on the right. Not sure how far away I was from the garage door... I think maybe like 13'... but this was when I was thinking the aim was way off and had been for years.


High beam comparison. Stock bulb on the left, LED on the right. Again, still not aimed correctly. These were pics I took right after installing the bulb.

[urbane]

Pretty much you cannot use a LED light in a reflector housing because it was designed for Halogen.

This link below explains why an HID bulb does not work in a reflector housing - Because the HID bulb arcs differently then a standard halogen bulb.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

It is similar between HID bulbs and LED bulbs, they are designed completely differently from halogen bulbs. If you want to upgrade properly, with an increase in light without an increase in current (wattage), retrofit a projector or install a standalone LED setup.

See below for links:

https://www.theretrofitsource.com/closeouts/morimoto-sealed7-bi-led-headlights-7.html
https://www.theretrofitsource.com/motorcycle-specific/hid-systems/motorcycle-stage-1-single.html

[Big Rich]

I dunno about that Urbane.... that seems like a pretty broad statement. While I'm certain upgrading the entire bucket / housing with a purpose made unit will provide the best "usable" light, many reputable manufacturers are producing H4 led bulbs that are made for older housings. Lower power consumption is a given, and there are hundreds of comparison pictures showing the light pattern of new H4 led bulbs.

[urbane]

A halogen bulb is made to reflect in all directions, the refelctorspecifically designed with the bulb in mind.

This is like prescription glasses. If you and the guy across the table (different bulbs) swap glasses (reflectors), the vision (output) will not be as great as it could. It could even cause you to see less!

I've tested lots of LED bulbs, and even in factory projector housings, LED bulbs just do not work as well as a good quality halogen bulb. Understand?

This is an example of a purpose made LED projector. Notice it doesn't use a drop in "bulb"? http://store.ijdmtoy.com/LED-Bi-Xenon-Headlamp-Retrofit-Mini-Projector-p/35-095.htm

[ShowBizWolf]

I am so confused lol... gonna just come right out and say it.

I couldn't be happier with this bulb. I can see so much more during my midnight rides home, nobody so far has flashed their lights at me indicating that I'm blinding them...

I just don't understand why I shouldn't be happy with this bulb... I don't understand what about it isn't working. Sure I took a risk and decided to be the guinea pig for this bulb in the GS. I knew there was a possibility it wouldn't work but I wanted to find out for sure.

I have learned a lot through this process and feel safer at night knowing I can see a lot more than I could before. And yes I know now that my stock bulb was not aimed correctly, but with this new bulb, I can see a LOT more than I can when I'm driving my van or my car or when I borrow my dad's truck... etc..

The site I bought this from afaik set out a few years ago to design an led bulb specifically to work with the halogen reflectors. Again, that's as far as I know based on all the reading I've done. The reviews I've read are good, the link Big Rich shared with me to the advrider forum has several pages about these bulbs in various bikes working well...

Dunno where I'm going with this haha... just rambling as I'm sipping my coffee trying to get awake to start my day 

[Big Rich]

I'm not arguing one way or another. All I'm saying is that certain H4 led bulbs are made to be fit into housings originally made for halogen bulbs. There are plenty of accounts of people making the switch and being happy with the results.....

[Watcher]

Hey, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

No matter how much evidence is gathered against using LEDs in Halogen reflectors, there are multiple real world accounts of it working fine.

ShowBiz's "deigned to replace Halogen" LED and the pretty typical "LEDs on a stick" replacement bulb I used in my GS both experienced good results.


I will say the major concerns are legality and artifacting in complex and modern reflectors, but in SIMPLE reflectors there doesn't seem to be much issue.

[ShowBizWolf]

Finally had some time to check out those links... really nifty looking stuff!! The 7" morimoto looks super cool, for sure. Wasn't able to find a price but (if I understood correctly what I was reading) it wouldn't draw less from the bike's electrics (which is one of the things I was going for.)

I like the look of that HID in the second link too... especially how they show it being installed in a Taurus !!

Woowee that last link to the LED projector... whooo that is a fancy fancy product for sure. My heart skipped a beat when I saw the price haha 

Very cool to see more options and learn more!! I'm still really happy with my simple $50 bulb... thankfully 

[urbane]

Finally had some time to check out those links... really nifty looking stuff!! The 7" morimoto looks super cool, for sure. Wasn't able to find a price but (if I understood correctly what I was reading) it wouldn't draw less from the bike's electrics (which is one of the things I was going for.)

I like the look of that HID in the second link too... especially how they show it being installed in a Taurus !!

Woowee that last link to the LED projector... whooo that is a fancy fancy product for sure. My heart skipped a beat when I saw the price haha 

Very cool to see more options and learn more!! I'm still really happy with my simple $50 bulb... thankfully 

My opinion may be a bit biased as I build projector headlights in my free time. I use products that have limited foreground light, and a very bright hotspot focused downroad. A lot of times when a person claims an increase in brightness, they are indeed getting an increase, just not where it should be (foreground).

Example, drive with your fog lights on while driving the car. Seems really bright! Problem though... Most of the fog light is designed to light up the 25' in front of the car, limiting down road vision. That is what we are shooting for in "good headlights as designed" with retrofits (replacements headlight systems). I'm not totally doubting the LED headlight PNP bulb, but to prove it's worth you should take a wall shot at 25' away from a flat wall on level ground. This shows headlight gurus how much you are really getting!

Here is an example of a good Mazda Setup:

You would also be surprised how much light you can get out of the stock reflector with a good bulb. There are good halogens, and bad halogens: https://www.hidplanet.com/forums/forum/general-discussion/halogens/1409801-ryan-s-guide-to-halogen-bulbs

[urbane]

Finally had some time to check out those links... really nifty looking stuff!! The 7" morimoto looks super cool, for sure. Wasn't able to find a price but (if I understood correctly what I was reading) it wouldn't draw less from the bike's electrics (which is one of the things I was going for.)

I like the look of that HID in the second link too... especially how they show it being installed in a Taurus !!

Woowee that last link to the LED projector... whooo that is a fancy fancy product for sure. My heart skipped a beat when I saw the price haha 

Very cool to see more options and learn more!! I'm still really happy with my simple $50 bulb... thankfully 

The 7" headlight is only $85 on clearance, there was a casting flaw in the rear and you have to dremel/trim a bit off to get it to work in 7" housings. Good deal!

The LED projector was just one of many, but there are going to be some US made choices this spring! I know the owner of TRS and they have shown us a model for their prototype LED projector and it looks great. Pulls about 18W of current in low beam, 30W combined High+Low!

I read what some of you said above, and I see it may be an upgrade for sure, but I will always recommend a GOOD halogen replacement over LED or HID in a reflector housing.

[ShowBizWolf]

oooooh this is so interesting... thank you for killing my boredom here at work

I will have to set out and find a place on the level that is 25'... I think it was in this thread where I said I don't have that much space. My garage is exactly 25' and if I opened the door and backed the bike out, it wouldn't be level anymore.

18W would be great!!! Pulling less was what my main goal was when I started reading up about all this. I was about to purchase the halogen bulb suggested on the first page of this thread by user11235813 (for brightness purposes) but then I realized it probably wouldn't be pulling less from the electric system so I didn't get it. I'm guessing that's what you mean by a good halogen?

My car doesn't have fog lights... neither does the Turtle Van... but my dad's truck does and they work really well!! The ones on my mom's Jeep however... that's another story lol

Oh yeah, that's what I wanted to ask... are there "good halogen replacements" that have less pull than the stock bulb?

PS... those PITA captchas should be gone for you now 

[urbane]

oooooh this is so interesting... thank you for killing my boredom here at work

I will have to set out and find a place on the level that is 25'... I think it was in this thread where I said I don't have that much space. My garage is exactly 25' and if I opened the door and backed the bike out, it wouldn't be level anymore.

18W would be great!!! Pulling less was what my main goal was when I started reading up about all this. I was about to purchase the halogen bulb suggested on the first page of this thread by user11235813 (for brightness purposes) but then I realized it probably wouldn't be pulling less from the electric system so I didn't get it. I'm guessing that's what you mean by a good halogen?

My car doesn't have fog lights... neither does the Turtle Van... but my dad's truck does and they work really well!! The ones on my mom's Jeep however... that's another story lol

Oh yeah, that's what I wanted to ask... are there "good halogen replacements" that have less pull than the stock bulb?

PS... those PITA captchas should be gone for you now 

So if you want less current ("Pull" in your words), you have to decrease the wattage. In normal lighting, just use an LED where you would normally used a halogen. A 55W halogen bulb is fairly standard across the board for a headlight. 55W Low beam, 60W high beam.

The reason for LED in a bulb (I don't like them in headlights) that replaces a halogen, is to save current (WATTS!).

So for example, I used to have 25 WATT HALOGEN turn signal bulbs in the rear. I wanted to replace them with LED to get better on/off and make the turn signal stand out better. In order to get the same amount of light as the stock halogen with an LED, I would have to order an LED bulb with 25W of "Light."

This is the same brightness, BUT the LED draws less current (WATTS). http://www.ebay.com/itm/122045128497?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The one I ordered for my project was a 30W bulb, but under testing pulls 0.6 watts when the bulb is on. Much much less then the 25 W stock!

So if you are looking for more power (heated gear, chargers, etc), you should probably start with replacing bulb that are always on. Example, instrument panels bulbs, Rear facing brake light and running light bulbs, license plate light.

The Captchas are finally gone!!!!

All halogen bulbs worth their weight in glass should pull right around their printed wattage. As I said above, 55W bulb should pull 55W when on and running.  A "Good Halogen" bulb just uses the same current (wattage) to put out more light!

An LED bulb usually pulls less wattage then the output (25W output, 0.6W draw in my case!).

Switching from one halogen bulb to another WILL NOT DECREASE LOAD (WATTAGE) UNLESS YOU DROP THE WATTAGE (40W headlight for example. But you will see less)

I can explain how the draw of an HID projector works if you are interested, but it draws most at start, and least when warm.... HID bulbs are weird.

tl;dr, change out auxiliary bulbs to save wattage for other purposes (the ones that are always on besides the headlight).

[ShowBizWolf]

Ahhh okay this makes a lot of sense to me. I'm glad that what I've discovered on my own so far is what you just explained. Awesome !!!!

Thank you for taking the time and yes I would love to know more about the draw of an HID projector.

All of the lights on my GS have been swapped over to LED (did the gauges, dash indicators and tail lights in the spring!) with the exception of the signals and the signal indicator on the dash. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax on this forum as to how to get them to work properly and I never wanted to mess with it tbh. Solutions have been found, however!!

[urbane]

Ahhh okay this makes a lot of sense to me. I'm glad that what I've discovered on my own so far is what you just explained. Awesome !!!!

Thank you for taking the time and yes I would love to know more about the draw of an HID projector.

All of the lights on my GS have been swapped over to LED (did the gauges, dash indicators and tail lights in the spring!) with the exception of the signals and the signal indicator on the dash. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax on this forum as to how to get them to work properly and I never wanted to mess with it tbh. Solutions have been found, however!!

It can't be that hard can it? Just swap the mechanical flasher relay to a electronic adjustable flasher relay: https://youtu.be/gwq4kTjW3m8?t=1m3s

Read this to learn more about HID: http://www.diodedynamics.com/store/research-1/research-hid.html

Diode Dynamics has a lot of really cool information on their research portion of their website.

Here is a paragraph quote that sums up power draw quite well:

"How Xenon Lights Work Unlike halogen light sources, Xenon, or High-Intensity Discharge (HID) lights do not have a conventional metal filament. The Xenon bulb is filled with noble gases like Xenon (hence its name). A high-voltage electric charge creates an arc between the two tungsten electrodes, igniting the Xenon gas and creating light. Xenon lights require about 20,000 volts to ignite the gas, dropping to a steady 85 volts once the light is illuminated. The current is produced and maintained by a ballast unit that steps up the vehicle’s 12-volt power supply to the necessary voltage. Xenon light sources produce a light that more closely resembles natural sunlight. Research has shown that the physical makeup of the HID light beam makes it easier for the human eye to see objects in low-light conditions. " - http://www.genesislamp.com/hidlibufa.html

In summary, the draw from HID is greatest at first when igniting the bulb at 20kV (20,000 VOLTS!), but as the bulb warms up the voltage (Volts) will step down to 85V.

Good aftermarket relays have a minor delay to ignite the HID bulb, so that your bike has a chance to start and provide power to necessary systems before focusing on lighting up what's in front (spark anyone?).

Hope you learned something today  .