Edit: clutch problem, shifting but not DISengaging

[nickxedge]

in searching for a solution to my problem i recently came across 2 posts from GSJack about how to properly adjust the clutch in 3 different places.  i will attempt that tomorrow.

in the meantime, maybe someone can tell me if it will likely fix my problem.  i recently popped off my sprocket cover because i wasn't sure if i had a slight oil leak or if it was all gunked up in there.  it was definitely gunked up so i cleaned it out.  after i reattached it, my clutch didn't feel any different but when i popped it into gear, the bike acted like it was in neutral.  i tried second gear and still no reaction.  the bike clicks over and i can hear the bike shift but its clearly missing something.  i started playing with the clutch (before i saw the posts about how to do it properly) and I'm sure i made it worse.  the push rod doesn't seem to move at all now, when i pull in the clutch lever, it seems like I'm hitting the rod and then thats it.  again, i'll work the full adjustment tomorrow and hopefully remedy the whole situation, but curious if anyone has any other thoughts on the matter.  also, should the bike be in neutral when i adjust the clutch or should i have it in gear?  assuming that it's "in gear" when it shift down into first form neutral.  side note, the neutral light pops on when I'm neutral and off when i go down to first or up to second.

[qcbaker]

Sounds to me like the gears are changing, but the clutch is never actually disengaging at all when you release the lever. I would imagine that adjusting the clutch cable and/or push rod will definitely help. This page from the wiki may be of some use to you:

http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Maintenance.AdjustClutch

[nickxedge]

Attempted the 3 point adjustment but didn't solve my problem. The clutch is definitely not disengaging because I can shift with zero resistance without pulling in the lever. I can also push the bike while not in neutral. So that's definite. I couldn't do the adjustment because the adjustment screw is too far in when meeting resistance to put the lock nut on it. Obviously because the push rod is not releasing.

I believe my next step is to remove he crankcase cover and disassemble the clutch until I can see the problem. I'm assuming the push piece is the culprit but unfortunately I'll need to take it apart to determine with certainty. Any advice is appreciated. I should have time tomorrow to start taking it apart and hopefully figuring it out.

[HPP8140]

You mention you "recently popped off my sprocket cover because i wasn't sure if i had a slight oil leak".

So, I assume everything was working before? Then make sure the sprocket cover is installed correctly.

[Suzuki Stevo]

You mention you "recently popped off my sprocket cover because i wasn't sure if i had a slight oil leak".

So, I assume everything was working before? Then make sure the sprocket cover is installed correctly.

Bingo, and I suspect the piece that the cable connects to "popped out" and is holding the clutch push rod in, and if I am not mistaken....you may also be missing some ball bearings, if what I think is true 

Remove the cover over the rough adjustment, the truth lays under the cover if I am correct.

EDIT: No...if it popped out you would never get the sprocket cover back on, but somehow it's holding the push rod in, #25 adjusted in too far will give you the same effect, remove the rough adjustment cover and see what you have 

[nickxedge]

Is there a way the sprocket cover can be put back on incorrectly? It sits perfectly flush and all 5 bolts line up and tighten without issue.

I've turned out the adjustment screw but that's not it. The latch and all inside the cover are fine. None of that came apart. The push rod isn't meant to be attached to anything, right? I'm assuming the push piece inside the clutch is stuck because nothing is pushing the rod back out. Nothing on the sprocket side is holding he push rod in because even with the sprocket cover off, the rod isn't disengaged.

[Suzuki Stevo]

With the rough adjustment cover off...does #25 & #26 even move when you pull the clutch lever in??

[nickxedge]

With the rough adjustment cover off...does #25 & #26 even move when you pull the clutch lever in??

Yes. The cable is still connected to the latch and pulling it still moves the whole piece in. I can feel when it makes contact with the push rod. The problem is the push rod is not coming back out when the lever is released. That's why I think something is stuck on the other side.

[Suzuki Stevo]

Yes. The cable is still connected to the latch and pulling it still moves the whole piece in. I can feel when it makes contact with the push rod. The problem is the push rod is not coming back out when the lever is released. That's why I think something is stuck on the other side.

I don't think that push rod is gunna hold them 6 clutch springs back, pull the cover back off, I'm pretty sure you will be able to pull the push rod out by hand, you might even see the real problem...IMHO, I don't think the push rod is the culprit 

[HPP8140]

Is there a way the sprocket cover can be put back on incorrectly? It sits perfectly flush and all 5 bolts line up and tighten without issue.

Yes, but it's a small chance, I've had it look like it was flush, but wasn't and I could pull the clutch in without much resistance. Happens sometimes depending on order installing bolts or something around the edges.

Doubt it's your issue, sounds like you have opposite problem.

[nickxedge]

I don't think that push rod is gunna hold them 6 clutch springs back, pull the cover back off, I'm pretty sure you will be able to pull the push rod out by hand, you might even see the real problem...IMHO, I don't think the push rod is the culprit 

The push rod itself is not stuck. I can indeed pull it out by hand. I don't really see anything askew from this view which is why I want to pull it apart from the other side. I think beyond the push rod on the sprocket side, and beyond the push rod on the crankcase side, the push piece itself is lodged somehow. Don't know if I did it or if it's an odd coincidence. I was careful and didn't play with the push rod at all when cleaning out the sprocket cover.

[Suzuki Stevo]

The push rod itself is not stuck. I can indeed pull it out by hand. I don't really see anything askew from this view which is why I want to pull it apart from the other side. I think beyond the push rod on the sprocket side, and beyond the push rod on the crankcase side, the push piece itself is lodged somehow. Don't know if I did it or if it's an odd coincidence. I was careful and didn't play with the push rod at all when cleaning out the sprocket cover.

"when i popped it into gear, the bike acted like it was in neutral"

With the cover off did it still act like it was in neutral while in gear? 

[nickxedge]

"when i popped it into gear, the bike acted like it was in neutral"

With the cover off did it still act like it was in neutral while in gear?

I'm losing my mind here.  With the cover off, it would not shift.  I put the cover back on carefully.  I put the shifter back on and it wouldn't shift.  A step in the right direction and you're right about nothing wrong in the clutch itself because it's not shifting freely anymore.  From here I began to work the clutch adjustment again.  I started with the push rod free play and to my surprise I was able to turn the screw in until I felt resistance and then back out a 1/4-1/2 turn.  I put the nut back on, held the screw in place and tightened the nut.  I had both the cable free play adjustments turned all the way in so the lever was a little loose, naturally.  I then began to work the cable adjustment at the top of the sprocket cover.  When I felt some resistance in the lever I started testing it out.  I didn't feel the natural type of resistance though, where you feel the clutch engage and disengage.  Instead I just felt like I hit something and that was it.  After that, once again the shifter can now act without pulling in the lever.  I don't know what I'm missing.  I did notice that when I have it "in gear" and I push the bike there's resistance.  It moves but not as freely as when its in neutral.

It has to be something more than just the clutch adjustments.  I can't afford to take it to a shop so I'm just going to keep working on it until I figure it out and understand what's going on.  While frustrating, I do enjoy this type of problem solving.

Open to more ideas and suggestions.  Thanks.

[nickxedge]

My season is all but over so next week I'll have some time to start taking apart the bike. If anyone has suggestions or ideas, I'm all ears. Otherwise I'll be taking it apart piece by piece until I solve my problem. Got nowhere to go but up at this point as I can't ride it, can't pay to fix it, and my season is pretty close to over anyhow. Thanks for the previous insight and any future input.

[Suzuki Stevo]

Your problems started when you popped off the cover and or made rough clutch adjustments, there is a whole lotta typing in this thread that just leads back to what you did...figure that out and your problem goes away, sorry...it's just that simple 

[nickxedge]

No need to be sorry. I've taken the sprocket cover off several times in the last week or so. I've worked the adjustments to death. I'm not exactly a motorcycle mechanic but I'm savvy. I've worked damn near everything possible on the sprocket side. I've retouched every part I touched the first time. The way the clutch lever behaves just doesn't really add up. I'll rework it at length before I start taking apart anything else. There just isn't much going on there so I can't see what is causing the problem.

[HPP8140]

take pics of all points.

[jeZZa]

make sure the pushrod is actualy in the clutch cam, iv managed to miss the hole befor and had a problem that sounds exactly like yours.....

[MichaelM3]

This may be of little or no help, so I apologize in advance. Oddly this sounds like a problem I had with a rear brake on a mountain bike.
That turned out to be a frayed cable. The frayed cable was catching way down inside the outer sheaf rather than somewhere visible. It would operate and then not release properly and then, on other occasions it would cause drag. As you've already in the vicinity, maybe it's worth disconnecting the cable from the clutch lever (take care with the safety switch) and from the sprocket cover and checking to make sure it is sliding smoothly. Just a thought....

[jeZZa]

This may be of little or no help, so I apologize in advance. Oddly this sounds like a problem I had with a rear brake on a mountain bike.
That turned out to be a frayed cable. The frayed cable was catching way down inside the outer sheaf rather than somewhere visible. It would operate and then not release properly and then, on other occasions it would cause drag. As you've already in the vicinity, maybe it's worth disconnecting the cable from the clutch lever (take care with the safety switch) and from the sprocket cover and checking to make sure it is sliding smoothly. Just a thought....

genius, your right that is a very good possibility, i had the problem on my throttle, didnt even think of it now till i saw your post


do like the man says, check the cable