Give me guidance, my geniuses.

[juan_knightstand]

Hey guy's I would greatly appreciate any help/feedback you guys can throw my way. So I managed to get an 04 GS500F off a guy on CL about 3 weeks ago for a steal, only had 4k miles on it. Since the weather just started to clear up I have been riding the bike to get a feel for her/see what she needed done. So on my way up my driveway (worst than NYC potholes and my landlord wont fix it) I ended up taking a tumble at maybe 4-5mph. She was down for maybe 4 secs before I was able to turn her off and get her up. I tried starting her and she wouldnt turn on.( I tried 3 times and then called it quits.  2 hours later my garage was covered in fuel. I ended up cleaning/draining the carbs, changed the air filter because it was flooded. After all was said and done I checked for any cracks and there was nothing.

After I was done I decided to wash up and go to bed. Next morning I started her up and she turned on. The only thing was that When I tried to accelerate she stalled. I also noticed that she sounded almost like a diesel engine, she was making like this chugging noise.

So this is where you're expertise comes in. After I did some research I saw someone mentioned that it could be a lose jet in the carbs. I decided to check my carbs and bingo the a jet was loose. Once I fixed it, I tried starting her. But she would start but then immediately die, with out without choke. After a few attempts she clicked once and stopped. Im guessing that the engine might be flooded but not sure. Is there anything else you guys think could be causing these issues?

Not sure if this info matters, but I did notice the bike would have delayed responses with the throttle. I thought it was a crab issue so i put some seafoam in the tank before I manually cleaned the carbs to see if that would help. It didnt.

[mr72]

wow, never heard of a jet being "loose".

Most likely when you laid it down it flooded. If you had fuel all over the garage then my guess is you put the petcock on PRI and left it parked, and the float needle valve is leaking and it overflowed.

Now you likely have created a new problem by pulling the carbs and tinkering with them. hard to say what it might be. But if it started a few times and immediately died, and now won't start at all, most likely there's no fuel in the carbs. My suspicion would be the vacuum line is not hooked to the petcock, or is kinked, etc. It will run for a little while on the fuel in the carb bowls and once it goes away it won't start.

So if I were you I'd check the vacuum and fuel line routing with great care and ensure it's all hooked up. If you had the carbs off you have to put the petcock on PRI for the first time you start it and then switch it to RUN once it's running. With any luck nothing is screwed up in the carbs other than hardened rubber bits (that leaking float needle I suggested, o-rings, etc.) so as long as you don't leave it parked with it on PRI you will be in good shape. But more than likely at this age it's going to require a thorough cleaning of the carbs, replace o-rings, replace the intake boot o-rings, etc. just as a matter of routine maintenance. While you're in there bump the jet sizes, especially the pilot, up one size, maybe even replace the float needles and be sure to reset the float level. Again, routine maintenance for a 13 year old carbureted bike, especially one with very low miles. Low miles like this means fuel has been sitting in those carbs for extended periods of time (ikely). Gunk is the result. Tiny orifices get clogged. Bad things happen.

[1018cc]

I'd pull the plugs and have a look and give them a clean. Easy, quick check in case lots of fuel got into the cylinders while it was on its side.

You could always crank the bike over with the plugs removed if you are worried about heaps of fuel sitting in the cylinders before reinstalling the plugs.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

[juan_knightstand]

If you had the carbs off you have to put the petcock on PRI for the first time you start it and then switch it to RUN once it's running. With any luck nothing is screwed up in the carbs other than hardened rubber bits (that leaking float needle I suggested, o-rings, etc.)

When I started it after I did everything it was on PRI and the Fuel vent line started to leak fuel. I'll have to recheck everything and make sure that it's ok.

I'd pull the plugs and have a look and give them a clean. Easy, quick check in case lots of fuel got into the cylinders while it was on its side.

You could always crank the bike over with the plugs removed if you are worried about heaps of fuel sitting in the cylinders before reinstalling the plugs.

I'll give that a try too. Thanks

[Watcher]

If you had the carbs off you have to put the petcock on PRI for the first time you start it and then switch it to RUN once it's running. With any luck nothing is screwed up in the carbs other than hardened rubber bits (that leaking float needle I suggested, o-rings, etc.)

When I started it after I did everything it was on PRI and the Fuel vent line started to leak fuel. I'll have to recheck everything and make sure that it's ok.

That's a symptom of either incorrect float height (set too low) or aging needle/seat sets.

Either way that would definitely cause reliability issues re: starting and idling.

[mr72]

When I started it after I did everything it was on PRI and the Fuel vent line started to leak fuel. I'll have to recheck everything and make sure that it's ok.

That's a symptom of either incorrect float height (set too low) or aging needle/seat sets.

What he said.

More than likely, the float needles are leaking or maybe even sticking. If they are only leaking when closed and it's not too bad then the bike will probably run fine when running but be prone to flooding from time to time, and will not tolerate being parked with it on prime without leaking. If it's really bad then the bike will flood constantly no matter how well you set the float height.

If it's flooded and you let it sit for several hours (on RUN, not PRI) then it'll usually start and run after sitting. If it won't start or run after sitting say overnight, then the problem is not limited to just flooding.

Save yourself a lot of headache down the line and pull the carbs, do the following:
replace all o-rings including the intake boot o-rings
replace the jets (they are cheap and easily clogged) -- rejet if you desire (especially pilot)
CLEAN EVERYTHING
DO NOT PUT CARB CLEANER ON THE CARBS WHILE THE RUBBER PARTS ARE STILL INSTALLED (diaphragms, o rings)
be sure you don't leave out the "little o-rings" on the carb top under the vacuum port
be sure you also change the pilot needle ("mixture adjustment") o-ring, it often leaks (fuel, not air).
replace the float needles (which are probably leaking now), and be sure to clean the float needle seat (it's brass and probably gunked up a lot). Replace the float needle seat o rings and the float inlet o-rings (I did say *all* o-rings... and I meant it)
properly set float height
put it all back together and set the idle speed and mixture ... 2.5 turns out for mixture, then follow the idle mix/speed adjust instructions TO THE EXACT DETAIL (must be set once the bike is FULLY warmed up)

This sort of old-carb service takes only a couple of hours for the competent home mechanic and costs under $50 in parts. You will rule out lots of nickel-and-dime running issues by doing this upfront. It's almost the same amount of labor to do all of this as it is to do any one thing like replace one o-ring or replace one float needle or just clean the bowls.

It'll be a lot easier to diagnose whatever's wrong later on once you know it's not a bad o-ring, bad float needle, clogged jet, etc.

BTW this is my source of cheap o-rings, but Buddha will also hook you up and is an excellent technical resource as well, can get you all of the parts you need including jets, float needles, etc.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/for_sale_dr350_orings.html

[juan_knightstand]

I ended up working on the bike and ended up cranking the engine and then re-cleaning the carbs. The bike starts at 3k and gradually worked its way to around 6krpm. Is that a throttle issue or something else with the carbs?

[qcbaker]

I ended up working on the bike and ended up cranking the engine and then re-cleaning the carbs. The bike starts at 3k and gradually worked its way to around 6krpm. Is that a throttle issue or something else with the carbs?

Try adjusting the idle mixture screw and/or ensuring that the choke cable is functioning properly.

[Suzi Q]

Also, the delayed throttle response you mentioned...make sure the bike is warm. It seems like a no-brainer, but a lot of people are used to fuel injection these days.

If it's warm, check the cables (lubricated cables/springs properly moving without "stickiness")

If all that is good, check internal carb passages. DO remember to pull o-rings before cutting loose with carb cleaner, as it can destroy them if you plan to re-use.

Good luck, have fun!

[Jim Moore]

I ended up working on the bike and ended up cranking the engine and then re-cleaning the carbs. The bike starts at 3k and gradually worked its way to around 6krpm. Is that a throttle issue or something else with the carbs?

Is the choke on? If so, you just need to take it partly off while the bike warms up. If not, you need to adjust your idle speed as someone else suggested. that's done with the big white turny-thing that you see sticking out beneath the carbs.

SuzyQ mentioned warming the bike up. She ain't kidding. This bike takes forever to warm up. Most bikes warm up in a mile or two. This bike takes five miles, maybe more. Weird.

[juan_knightstand]

Is the choke on? If so, you just need to take it partly off while the bike warms up. If not, you need to adjust your idle speed as someone else suggested. that's done with the big white turny-thing that you see sticking out beneath the carbs.

SuzyQ mentioned warming the bike up. She ain't kidding. This bike takes forever to warm up. Most bikes warm up in a mile or two. This bike takes five miles, maybe more. Weird.

[/quote]

Also, the delayed throttle response you mentioned...make sure the bike is warm. It seems like a no-brainer, but a lot of people are used to fuel injection these days.

If it's warm, check the cables (lubricated cables/springs properly moving without "stickiness")

If all that is good, check internal carb passages. DO remember to pull o-rings before cutting loose with carb cleaner, as it can destroy them if you plan to re-use.

Good luck, have fun!

I'm going to pick up a new fuel line, the one the bike was also falling apart. Last night I adjusted the float levels (Thanks Mr72 and watcher) they were incorrect. Now if the bike still has that over reving issue should I ride it until it warms up?

[mr72]

I'm going to pick up a new fuel line, the one the bike was also falling apart. Last night I adjusted the float levels (Thanks Mr72 and watcher) they were incorrect. Now if the bike still has that over reving issue should I ride it until it warms up?

If the choke is on then this is exactly what it is supposed to do.

Start it with choke.

It'll rev to 5K+ rpms

let it warm up for a minute or two this way

turn choke off or mostly off

go ride

after 5 minutes make sure choke is all the way off

after about 10-15 minutes of riding it'll be warm enough that you can set the idle speed and mixture. I'd start with idle speed and see how that goes.

[qcbaker]

Start the bike with the choke fully on. Then back the choke off until the bike is idling somewhere safe to ride with. If the idle does not fall when you back the choke off, I would check and see if the choke cable is functioning properly. If the choke works right and you can reduce the idle RPM to ~2K or something like that, ride the bike around a bit until it's fully warmed up. Once the bike is warm, take the choke completely off. Once the choke is off, see where the idle is. If its still too high, use the big screw sticking out form the bottom of the carbs to adjust the warm idle something like 1.5K RPM.

[juan_knightstand]

This is how it sounds today, got the rpm back down to normal, i wasn't able to record the whole thing since I had to clock in to work at 3. But it's back to making that sound again, and after 1-2 mins of starting up it starts producing white smoke (maybe it's blue but I cant tell since I'm color blind) but does this sound normal to you guys? I know a decent amount of fuel had spilled, probably getting in the oil, so maybe it's just burning off all that spilled fuel in the lines?


Sorry about the orientation of the video. Idk why it just occurred to me to do this, probably would've been helpful the whole time.

https://youtu.be/F6sPZPDyNxM

[Suzi Q]

totally just now noticing your username....bravo!

Anyway yeah, sounds normal in the video. As far as smoke, it generally will come from three things;

Coolant in the combustion mix (not possible Highly unlikely on an air cooled engine)

Oil in the combustion mix (gray to black smoke which creates an oil slick in the inside of the tail pipe that you can feel with your finger as well as smell of burnt oil when you sniff the exhaust)

Extremely rich combustion mix (visibly wet at exhaust exit as well as smell of gas when you sniff the exhaust)

My guess is you're running rich. Once the bike is warm and you have the choke off, "goose" the throttle; how does the bike respond?

[juan_knightstand]

 

totally just now noticing your username....bravo!

Anyway yeah, sounds normal in the video. As far as smoke, it generally will come from three things;

Coolant in the combustion mix (not possible Highly unlikely on an air cooled engine)

Oil in the combustion mix (gray to black smoke which creates an oil slick in the inside of the tail pipe that you can feel with your finger as well as smell of burnt oil when you sniff the exhaust)

Extremely rich combustion mix (visibly wet at exhaust exit as well as smell of gas when you sniff the exhaust)

My guess is you're running rich. Once the bike is warm and you have the choke off, "goose" the throttle; how does the bike respond?

  Thank you, thank you, usually takes people a few looks at it to get it. And I will try that later on tonight once I'm done working.

[Watcher]

White smoke can also be simply from moisture.

If it's been sitting, and especially in humid conditions with cool nights, moisture can form in the exhaust and sometimes in the crank-case.

White smoke that goes away in a few minutes can usually be attributed to this.

[juan_knightstand]

Final update: Thank you all for the help. I was able to take her out last night after work. The smoke cleared up almost immediately after riding and the rpms normalized shortly after.

But I knew it was all way too good to be true because 10 mins into my ride, my battery died.   

Someone of you might enjoy the irony that I got stranded right next to an autoparts store (it was 12:30am they were definitely closed). Couldn't roll start her up so I had to push her back home 2 miles.

All in all thanks for all the help guys!

[Suzi Q]

Glad it cleared up, sorry to hear about the battery. No need to be the final update though...feel free to stick around and hang out a while!

[Watcher]

Now that it's running (somewhat) you should stick around and play the picture game!

Always need more players for that!