PSA for florida riders! Learn from my pain.

[J_Walker]

according to Florida state law, you can do a U-turn wherever you damn please! as long as there is no sign marking "no U-turn" Yup, Even on SOLID DOUBLE YELLOW TWO LANE ROADS WITH LOTS OF TRAFFIC.

grabbed a hand-full of brake today to NOT hit a car jamming on their brakes because they where on their phone, and someone with California plates decided that they needed to do a U-turn IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET! dumped it, broke my foot in the process, @ broke my GS.

I'll be seeing what I can do about possibly getting a state law passed regarding doing U-turns on solid double lines. anyone with previous experience feel free to chime in. Nobody was found at fault [not even me - yay?] or maybe your state doesn't allow U-turns on double yellows, please do say what state so I can read the original argument for having such laws put in place hopefully have something to back my efforts.


If you can't pass other cars on double yellow lines, how do you have the "right" to do a U-turn on them?! I'll post a picture of the scene [since there is no case here]

Oh and the fat-arse women who did the u-turn and decided to "GET ANGRY" because I was waiting for the state trooper to show up, F*** YOU LADY! HOPE YOU DRIVE INTO A GUARD RAIL AND BREAK YOUR FAT FACE. [white shirt]



White scuffs on the road is my pegs I came off about half way through the slide.

And the Harley bro in the pickup who stopped to help me move my bike out of the road, thanks BRO. THAT'S HOW ONE SHOULD ACT.

[user11235813]

When I saw 'PSA' I thought it was going to be about prostate cancer, as in 'Prostate Specific Antigen! Anyhoo, coming of a bike sucks no matter how. Hope the foot break is not too serious, a bike is just stuff.

However I do have to waggle my finger at you in a disapproving manner because you should have seen the car doing the u turn and you should have not been so close to the car in front. I often see stuff up ahead and I know the car in front of me has not realised and are going to hit their brakes.

Didn't need to be a U turn it could have been a dog run out in front of the car in front of you and it's the same situation. You must always allow an absolute minimum of two second distance between you and the car in front.

https://youtu.be/12Kyd2htJLc (warning strong language!)

[The Buddha]

What would have happened if you had hit the minivan ?
Usually dumping the bike to avoid contact results in no one being found @ fault.
Cool.
Buddha.

[mr72]

That's the same way the law is in TX. And if you had hit the other driver you would be at fault, it's a rear end collision. You have to always be able to stop in case the driver in front stops or slows. Basically, sounds like you were following too close or going too fast or both. Fwiw most people are always following too close and also going too fast. That's why rear end collision are so common.

[J_Walker]

When I saw 'PSA' I thought it was going to be about prostate cancer, as in 'Prostate Specific Antigen! Anyhoo, coming of a bike sucks no matter how. Hope the foot break is not too serious, a bike is just stuff.

However I do have to waggle my finger at you in a disapproving manner because you should have seen the car doing the u turn and you should have not been so close to the car in front. I often see stuff up ahead and I know the car in front of me has not realised and are going to hit their brakes.

Didn't need to be a U turn it could have been a dog run out in front of the car in front of you and it's the same situation. You must always allow an absolute minimum of two second distance between you and the car in front.

https://youtu.be/12Kyd2htJLc (warning strong language!)

Okay, white car in the picture was in front of me, the grey car was in front of them.
White car wasn't paying attention to the road too busy on her phone, I could NOT see through white cars rear window [see picture] because the heavily dark tint on the rear window. Grey car was stopped in the middle of the road making a u-turn the white car clearly wasn't paying attention, I saw white cars brake lights come on and I started to apply rear brake because I assumed traffic in front was coming to a slow, I was doing the posted speed limit of 45mph on the left side of the road [behind the driver]. as soon as I realized that NO THAT WHITE CAR IS JACKING ON THEIR BRAKES. I grabbed my front brake and the tire locked up and jerked to the right and my bike wobbled and fell on it's left side. sliding about 10-15 feet. I was a whole car length in a half away from the car in front of me, and DID NOT HIT THEM.

I was NOT speeding, and WAS NOT tailgating. - This GS is just trying to kill me. still unknown why the front brake locked up and the tire jerked to one side. I did not grab it any more or less than I normally hard brake on, something is/was wrong for sure. + my tires where still not warmed up as I just left home.

you can see I did NOTHING wrong personally, and it was a freak accident set into place by a mentally challenged driver, who decided doing a U-turn on a double yellow during heavy traffic was OKAY.

[mr72]

I was NOT speeding, and WAS NOT tailgating. - This GS is just trying to kill me. still unknown why the front brake locked up and the tire jerked to one side. I did not grab it any more or less than I normally hard brake on, something is/was wrong for sure. + my tires where still not warmed up as I just left home.

you can see I did NOTHING wrong personally, and it was a freak accident set into place by a mentally challenged driver, who decided doing a U-turn on a double yellow during heavy traffic was OKAY.

I really hope you don't take this as some kind of personal attack, because it's not.

But what you describe is the classic definition of following too close. I didn't say tailgating... but if you are following too close to come to a complete stop before hitting a stopped or stopping car including reaction time and braking distance etc. then you are following too close, period. It doesn't matter whether the reason you couldn't stop in time was a locked front brake, tire condition, road condition, all of those things are part of making a stop. So what this says is you need to be leaving more distance between you and the car in front in the future so you can safely make a stop in situations like this.

Personally after driving a sports car with no ABS for 15 years I became a bit paranoid about following distance and that was in a 2250 lb car with huge tires and exceptional brakes and suspension. Times I had to make a stop on a dime to avoid an accident taught me that threshold braking on real road surfaces with irregularities etc. can turn a 110-ft 60-0 stopping distance into 150+ ft real quick, and there's no computer to bail you out. So on my GS I figure it's got a tiny contact patch on the front and you can't steer while braking and the risk of injury is very high if I hit somebody and it has no ABS so I leave ridiculous distances to the car in front. Last thing I want to do is discover the limits of braking on this bike while in traffic, like you did. Better safe than sorry.

Anyway, I am really sorry this happened to you and that you are hurt. I hope you get healed up quick and get the bike sorted. Hey, I have some turn signals and one stock mirror if you need them. But still, your accident was your fault; it's not some other driver's responsibility to not stop in front of you. It's your responsibility to be able to deal with it when they do, which includes leaving enough space to allow for the limitations of the vehicle.

BTW only time I have locked the front tire (not the current/new front, but the old/worn Shinko) was at a stop light that went yellow and I was going about 45 and it locked and skidded straight in a line. That was not close to what I would call a hard stop. My Jeep would have made that stop with 30 feet to spare. Scared the crap out of me. If I buy a new[er] motorcycle it will be primarily because I want ABS. Until then I leave ridiculous space in front.

[twocool]

"defensive driving"

If you expect everybody else to be good drivers and that they will follow all the rules to a "t"...
you are just kidding yourself.

You must be constantly thinking of every possible scenario of how somebody is going to try to kill you.

That means staying way back...keeping speed moderate...and having an "out".

Motorcycle riding is one of the most dangerous activities there is.  You can limit your risk, but never eliminate it totally.


Cookie

I was NOT speeding, and WAS NOT tailgating. - This GS is just trying to kill me. still unknown why the front brake locked up and the tire jerked to one side. I did not grab it any more or less than I normally hard brake on, something is/was wrong for sure. + my tires where still not warmed up as I just left home.

you can see I did NOTHING wrong personally, and it was a freak accident set into place by a mentally challenged driver, who decided doing a U-turn on a double yellow during heavy traffic was OKAY.

I really hope you don't take this as some kind of personal attack, because it's not.

But what you describe is the classic definition of following too close. I didn't say tailgating... but if you are following too close to come to a complete stop before hitting a stopped or stopping car including reaction time and braking distance etc. then you are following too close, period. It doesn't matter whether the reason you couldn't stop in time was a locked front brake, tire condition, road condition, all of those things are part of making a stop. So what this says is you need to be leaving more distance between you and the car in front in the future so you can safely make a stop in situations like this.

Personally after driving a sports car with no ABS for 15 years I became a bit paranoid about following distance and that was in a 2250 lb car with huge tires and exceptional brakes and suspension. Times I had to make a stop on a dime to avoid an accident taught me that threshold braking on real road surfaces with irregularities etc. can turn a 110-ft 60-0 stopping distance into 150+ ft real quick, and there's no computer to bail you out. So on my GS I figure it's got a tiny contact patch on the front and you can't steer while braking and the risk of injury is very high if I hit somebody and it has no ABS so I leave ridiculous distances to the car in front. Last thing I want to do is discover the limits of braking on this bike while in traffic, like you did. Better safe than sorry.

Anyway, I am really sorry this happened to you and that you are hurt. I hope you get healed up quick and get the bike sorted. Hey, I have some turn signals and one stock mirror if you need them. But still, your accident was your fault; it's not some other driver's responsibility to not stop in front of you. It's your responsibility to be able to deal with it when they do, which includes leaving enough space to allow for the limitations of the vehicle.

BTW only time I have locked the front tire (not the current/new front, but the old/worn Shinko) was at a stop light that went yellow and I was going about 45 and it locked and skidded straight in a line. That was not close to what I would call a hard stop. My Jeep would have made that stop with 30 feet to spare. Scared the crap out of me. If I buy a new[er] motorcycle it will be primarily because I want ABS. Until then I leave ridiculous space in front.

[J_Walker]

I was NOT speeding, and WAS NOT tailgating. - This GS is just trying to kill me. still unknown why the front brake locked up and the tire jerked to one side. I did not grab it any more or less than I normally hard brake on, something is/was wrong for sure. + my tires where still not warmed up as I just left home.

you can see I did NOTHING wrong personally, and it was a freak accident set into place by a mentally challenged driver, who decided doing a U-turn on a double yellow during heavy traffic was OKAY.

I really hope you don't take this as some kind of personal attack, because it's not.

But what you describe is the classic definition of following too close. I didn't say tailgating... but if you are following too close to come to a complete stop before hitting a stopped or stopping car including reaction time and braking distance etc. then you are following too close, period. It doesn't matter whether the reason you couldn't stop in time was a locked front brake, tire condition, road condition, all of those things are part of making a stop. So what this says is you need to be leaving more distance between you and the car in front in the future so you can safely make a stop in situations like this.

Personally after driving a sports car with no ABS for 15 years I became a bit paranoid about following distance and that was in a 2250 lb car with huge tires and exceptional brakes and suspension. Times I had to make a stop on a dime to avoid an accident taught me that threshold braking on real road surfaces with irregularities etc. can turn a 110-ft 60-0 stopping distance into 150+ ft real quick, and there's no computer to bail you out. So on my GS I figure it's got a tiny contact patch on the front and you can't steer while braking and the risk of injury is very high if I hit somebody and it has no ABS so I leave ridiculous distances to the car in front. Last thing I want to do is discover the limits of braking on this bike while in traffic, like you did. Better safe than sorry.

Anyway, I am really sorry this happened to you and that you are hurt. I hope you get healed up quick and get the bike sorted. Hey, I have some turn signals and one stock mirror if you need them. But still, your accident was your fault; it's not some other driver's responsibility to not stop in front of you. It's your responsibility to be able to deal with it when they do, which includes leaving enough space to allow for the limitations of the vehicle.

BTW only time I have locked the front tire (not the current/new front, but the old/worn Shinko) was at a stop light that went yellow and I was going about 45 and it locked and skidded straight in a line. That was not close to what I would call a hard stop. My Jeep would have made that stop with 30 feet to spare. Scared the crap out of me. If I buy a new[er] motorcycle it will be primarily because I want ABS. Until then I leave ridiculous space in front.

There was SPACE IN FRONT of me, that's what I'm saying, the bike slid to a STOP WAYY before it came anywhere near the rear of the car in front of me. I think your definition of tailgating is off. tailgating and getting cited for such, is because you're following to close, is the reason why you HIT the person in front of you. but I did not hit the person or come anywhere near the person infront of me, my reaction was correct. also Defensive riding I agree is everything, but I couldn't go left [double yellow + couldn't see around the car in front of me.] and going right meant eating shaZam! anyway. so a hard brake was the correct call, now the reason why the tire ducked out from under the bike in a lock up + straight line is beyond me at this point.

okay now let me address the bold here,

I NEVER saw the person in front making the U-turn only the person in front of me braking, The GS500 [mine I was riding] takes 5.4 seconds at 45 MPH [tested averaged number here] to come to a complete stop applying equal braking power across both brakes without breaking the rear tire either. On average a persons reaction time to a situation is about 1 - 1.5 seconds. at 45mph so say you've got me on the quick end of stopping. that gives me 6.4 seconds to come to a stop, at 45mph that's 66 feet per second, so that gives the GS a rough stopping distance @ 45mph 350 feet. The GS500 is 82 inches long, the bike slid on its side about 5 bike lengths long that's about 405 feet of sliding. within the GS500's stopping distance. Now add the car lengths of distance my bike actually stopped behind the car infront of me [average SUV distance] of 15 feet plus the time I actually was applying the rear brake, I was easily within a 450 foot distance between me and the car in front of me. Now go ahead and argue the fact that 450 feet at 45MPH is tailgating, I'd love to hear this.

The fact you decide to say "not a personal attack" but go around saying "YUP ITS ALL YOUR FAULT" is comical. It's like me punching you in the mouth and saying "nothing personal, just I think your mouth needed a good punching"

and accident can just be an accident. but just because something seem's like a freak accident doesn't mean there isn't external causes. in this case the lady making a U-turn is what started the motion of events that lead me up to dumping my bike, if she would of just kept driving 1/3 of a mile up the road and made a U-turn somewhere where it was safe to do so everything could of been avoided. Everything on my end could not of been avoided and I did everything physics would allow me to do to avoid a more serious accident [going over the double yellow/running into the car in front of me.] there for anyone with an ounce of common sense could tell you the accident was caused by the person who was making the U-turn.

[The Buddha]

still unknown why the front brake locked up and the tire jerked to one side.

No its very well known, its a piece of crap front end and that monster sized single disk.

Its well known atleast since 1997 when I was following a Jag XJ12 convt down a sacramento off ramp and hit the brakes and that lindemann modded FE fitted 89 nicely kicked me off to the side of the XJ12 much to that guy's total surprise ... and yes I was speeding and I was trying to get a better look @ that Jag convt.

Cool.
Buddha.

[J_Walker]

still unknown why the front brake locked up and the tire jerked to one side.

No its very well known, its a piece of crap front end and that monster sized single disk.

Its well known atleast since 1997 when I was following a Jag XJ12 convt down a sacramento off ramp and hit the brakes and that lindemann modded FE fitted 89 nicely kicked me off to the side of the XJ12 much to that guy's total surprise ... and yes I was speeding and I was trying to get a better look @ that Jag convt.

Cool.
Buddha.

yeah. I have sonic .85's [heavier than I need] in the front end. HH pads, and an OEM rotor up front. no fork brace however, thought that would prevent a lot of this, I thought wrong! I'm not arguing the fact my front locked up because I grabbed a handful of brake. its gonna happen when you grab a handful of brake and the contact patch of your tire is like a square inch, real easy to break it loose.

and I would tell anyone who's getting into motorcycles, that there's a common misconception that bikes STOP faster than cars. SOME bikes can, but not every bike is created the same. and real world conditions will dictate your stopping distance, not everything is on a track with tires so sticky they last 50 miles, and the best ABS systems money can buy. your 8,000 dollar street bike isn't a GP machine. lol

[Endopotential]

Hey J, sorry about the foot but glad you're OK.

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean the world isn't out to get you."

I'm a stupid California driver, and even I know you can't pull U turns like that.  Hope that lady gets nailed for cell phone use or something.

Discussions like this are important because they remind us of the dangers of our sport, and give us a chance to learn from each other's mistakes.  Just because others pointed out potential mistakes doesn't mean they're attacking you.  "Attacking" I would interpret as saying "you're a dumb*** / you're stupid etc"
Unlike many other online forums, the folk here for the most part are thankfully thoughtful, relatively polite and pleasantly wacky.

[user11235813]

@J_Walker

I made this post last yeah in a thread by SBW called "Could this crash have been avoided?"

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=71318.20

I had the sh!t scared out of me not long ago when a car waaaay in front on a straight road had their brake lights come on so I started to slow a bit but it was a little while before I realised that they were not slowing down they had in fact come to a dead stop. The situation was not dangerous but it did wake me up. I am always adjusting my safe driving distance. I'm particularly wary of the type of situation that sent Patrick (RIP) shuffling off this mortal coil. I never brake without checking my rear mirror and even when stopped at lights I'm watching for anyone coming up behind me. I've had a comminuted tib/fib from a nurse T boning me as she was coming out of a hospital driveway. I'd just come back from a 3,000 journey and just went down to the shops to get some bread, clear sunny day, no traffic, but I had to look at that situation and if I am honest with myself I could have handled it differently. I should have done an emergency brake perhaps instead of trying to swerve when she stopped in the middle of the road, apparently seeing me... but then she started up again...

After reading a couple of your other replies I have to say that if you make a post like that on a motorcycle forum you are going to get some tough love we are blokes and reeling off f/sec and mph and reaction times are not going to work with us. It may work for your gf, but she'll just be sitting there thinking to herself 'yeah, you didn't have enough space in front'.

OK so you're on a lonely country road, going round a slow sweeper and you drop your bike, what the first thing you do...?

No, you don't pick your bike up, that's the second thing you do.

Another anecdote, the gf was going out on her bike and she'd had a beer half an hour prior, I told her to wait, she said, she'd be well under the limit, and I agreed but I told her to wait because it's already dangerous enough you do not want any impairment no matter how slight and no matter how within the law. She says to me that she'd gone out before after a beer...

OK so I said to her look it's your life, if you want to be f.ucking idiot and go out on your bike if you've had a drink then do not tell me. Ever. I do not want to know, I will not be a party to your stupidity. She said 'so you think I shouldn't go out now? I said what do you think. As I said, it's tough love it's not having a go at someone, and I think the people who'll give you the hardest time are those who've made an error themselves and they don't want others to do it.

[Watcher]

Crossing the double yellow to change direction isn't prohibited anywhere, as far as I know.
You can turn left over a double yellow in order to access a driveway or parking lot, a U-turn is just another type of left turn...



Might be a case of "just because you can doesn't mean you should."

Still, if it wasn't someone locking up the brakes for a U-turn how often might it be someone locking up the brakes for an animal in the road or something?
Can't get complacent as a rider ever.

[mr72]

There was SPACE IN FRONT of me, that's what I'm saying,

OK, I stand corrected. I didn't catch that from your initial description.

Just check my summary: A driver two cars ahead of you was doing a U-turn. The driver in front of you was "on their phone" and still managed to safely avoid hitting the U-turning driver. You, in the back, lost control and crashed trying to avoid hitting the car directly in front of you. Is that right?

Regardless of all of the posturing and bluster, if this is accurate above, then the reality has to be that either a) you were following too closely for you to be able to make a safe stop without losing control (because hard evidence suggests you couldn't make a safe stop without losing control) or b) you are unable to make a safe stop at any distance. I think b) is very unlikely, so I suggested a).

I think your definition of tailgating is off.

I didn't say 'tailgating', you did.

so a hard brake was the correct call, now the reason why the tire ducked out from under the bike in a lock up + straight line is beyond me at this point.

For whatever reason, combination of state of repair of the motorcycle, your reaction time and skills, etc., you couldn't make a safe stop without losing control. I see you want to first blame the other driver for having the gall to not keep moving, then you want to blame the motorcycle for not reacting as you wanted it to when you got hard on the front brake. But the simple truth is that if you had allowed more following distance then you wouldn't have had to pull enough brake to lock the tire in order to keep from hitting the U-turning driver.

You are right, attempting to stop was the right call. The tire "ducked" is because you have no fork brace. It would have tried to turn right in a hard stop no matter what, especially if you hadn't locked. Attempting to ride the bike on public roads with no fork brace was probably part of what made this change from a scary skid-to-stop where you remained upright to a crash.

Now go ahead and argue the fact that 450 feet at 45MPH is tailgating, I'd love to hear this.

Pretty sure I didn't use the word 'tailgating'. And I agree that this should have been plenty of stopping distance if you were truly 450 feet behind the next car while moving. I don't believe you were actually 450 feet behind the car in front of you.

The fact you decide to say "not a personal attack" but go around saying "YUP ITS ALL YOUR FAULT" is comical.

No, this wasn't personal, it was just plainly factual. But I sensed that you may not be able to take it as such which is why I qualified. My guess is the LEO didn't cite you because your actions didn't harm another driver or property. If you had hit a sign or another car etc. then you probably would have gotten a ticket.

in this case the lady making a U-turn is what started the motion of events that lead me up to dumping my bike,

Seriously? Do they not have right-of-way laws in FL?

What started the events that led to your crash was:
1) You pulled too much brake and locked the tire. There are numerous things that contribute to the potential of locking the tire but the plain reality is that the only variable under any human's control is how hard you pulled the lever, and without ABS it is possible to pull it hard enough to lock and that will not only extend the braking distance greatly but also increase the potential to lose control.
2) You are riding with no fork brace. This is why when you locked the tire it tried to steer right.
3) You lost control while trying to stop, due to the condition of the motorcycle (fork brace, tires, etc.?) and locking the tire.

The other driver's actions had nothing to do with it, because it's an ordinary and expected part of driving that you will have to be able to stop the vehicle in response to ordinary things in the road: driver making a left turn or U-turn, an animal or pedestrian moves into your path, etc. And then there's the range of "defensive driving" where other drivers will do wrong things (run a stop sign, change lanes without looking, etc.) and you need to be able to react safely to save yourself from a wreck that is someone else's fault.

In this case, no matter how you slice it, or how bad you feel about it, the reality is that everything that led to this accident was on you. I agree if you had 450 feet of following distance (which would be truly extraordinary) then I was wrong about following distance being the main problem. If you can't stop from 45 mph in 450 feet then something else is seriously wrong. So it's hard to believe you were actually 450 feet behind the car you were following (I mean, they had to stop too, right? they had some stopping distance too from when you saw the brake light).

You saw the brake light in front of you, that car was stopping hard so they slowed while you reacted some quantity of time before you began to slow. So let's say they slowed from 45-25 before you even touched the brake. By this time your following distance had been partly consumed enough that your reaction was to pull a LOT of brake to avoid hitting that stopped car, and it was enough to lock the front tire and that's when you lost control for various reasons. But the truth is, a little bit more following distance might have changed this entirely.

for anyone with an ounce of common sense could tell you the accident was caused by the person who was making the U-turn.

You are wrong, plain and simple.

But I'm sure you can find others to agree with you, and they will also be wrong. This happens to be a very dangerous opinion. Next time this happens to you, if the bike skids in a straight line rather than folding over then you may wind up skidding flat into the car in front of you.

Motorcycles have generally longer stopping distances than cars. 25-year-old motorcycles with no ABS have far longer stopping distances than modern ABS-equipped cars. For this reason alone you need to have much greater following distances when riding a GS500 vs. what would be safe in a car. Added to that is the risk to your person if you err on the side of following too close. That's why, for me, I choose to leave huge following distances. I don't trust my ability to keep the bike from doing just what yours did in an emergency stop, and I don't want to test it.

And I am truly sorry you got hurt, and I sincerely hope you heal up quickly and get everything back on the road again. I also hope you learn whatever you can from this. And I'm going to add you to my ignore list, and that is personal.

[J_Walker]

There was SPACE IN FRONT of me, that's what I'm saying,

OK, I stand corrected. I didn't catch that from your initial description.

Just check my summary: A driver two cars ahead of you was doing a U-turn. The driver in front of you was "on their phone" and still managed to safely avoid hitting the U-turning driver. You, in the back, lost control and crashed trying to avoid hitting the car directly in front of you. Is that right?

Regardless of all of the posturing and bluster, if this is accurate above, then the reality has to be that either a) you were following too closely for you to be able to make a safe stop without losing control (because hard evidence suggests you couldn't make a safe stop without losing control) or b) you are unable to make a safe stop at any distance. I think b) is very unlikely, so I suggested a).

I think your definition of tailgating is off.

I didn't say 'tailgating', you did.

so a hard brake was the correct call, now the reason why the tire ducked out from under the bike in a lock up + straight line is beyond me at this point.

For whatever reason, combination of state of repair of the motorcycle, your reaction time and skills, etc., you couldn't make a safe stop without losing control. I see you want to first blame the other driver for having the gall to not keep moving, then you want to blame the motorcycle for not reacting as you wanted it to when you got hard on the front brake. But the simple truth is that if you had allowed more following distance then you wouldn't have had to pull enough brake to lock the tire in order to keep from hitting the U-turning driver.

You are right, attempting to stop was the right call. The tire "ducked" is because you have no fork brace. It would have tried to turn right in a hard stop no matter what, especially if you hadn't locked. Attempting to ride the bike on public roads with no fork brace was probably part of what made this change from a scary skid-to-stop where you remained upright to a crash.

Now go ahead and argue the fact that 450 feet at 45MPH is tailgating, I'd love to hear this.

Pretty sure I didn't use the word 'tailgating'. And I agree that this should have been plenty of stopping distance if you were truly 450 feet behind the next car while moving. I don't believe you were actually 450 feet behind the car in front of you.

The fact you decide to say "not a personal attack" but go around saying "YUP ITS ALL YOUR FAULT" is comical.

No, this wasn't personal, it was just plainly factual. But I sensed that you may not be able to take it as such which is why I qualified. My guess is the LEO didn't cite you because your actions didn't harm another driver or property. If you had hit a sign or another car etc. then you probably would have gotten a ticket.

in this case the lady making a U-turn is what started the motion of events that lead me up to dumping my bike,

Seriously? Do they not have right-of-way laws in FL?

What started the events that led to your crash was:
1) You pulled too much brake and locked the tire. There are numerous things that contribute to the potential of locking the tire but the plain reality is that the only variable under any human's control is how hard you pulled the lever, and without ABS it is possible to pull it hard enough to lock and that will not only extend the braking distance greatly but also increase the potential to lose control.
2) You are riding with no fork brace. This is why when you locked the tire it tried to steer right.
3) You lost control while trying to stop, due to the condition of the motorcycle (fork brace, tires, etc.?) and locking the tire.

The other driver's actions had nothing to do with it, because it's an ordinary and expected part of driving that you will have to be able to stop the vehicle in response to ordinary things in the road: driver making a left turn or U-turn, an animal or pedestrian moves into your path, etc. And then there's the range of "defensive driving" where other drivers will do wrong things (run a stop sign, change lanes without looking, etc.) and you need to be able to react safely to save yourself from a wreck that is someone else's fault.

In this case, no matter how you slice it, or how bad you feel about it, the reality is that everything that led to this accident was on you. I agree if you had 450 feet of following distance (which would be truly extraordinary) then I was wrong about following distance being the main problem. If you can't stop from 45 mph in 450 feet then something else is seriously wrong. So it's hard to believe you were actually 450 feet behind the car you were following (I mean, they had to stop too, right? they had some stopping distance too from when you saw the brake light).

You saw the brake light in front of you, that car was stopping hard so they slowed while you reacted some quantity of time before you began to slow. So let's say they slowed from 45-25 before you even touched the brake. By this time your following distance had been partly consumed enough that your reaction was to pull a LOT of brake to avoid hitting that stopped car, and it was enough to lock the front tire and that's when you lost control for various reasons. But the truth is, a little bit more following distance might have changed this entirely.

for anyone with an ounce of common sense could tell you the accident was caused by the person who was making the U-turn.

You are wrong, plain and simple.

But I'm sure you can find others to agree with you, and they will also be wrong. This happens to be a very dangerous opinion. Next time this happens to you, if the bike skids in a straight line rather than folding over then you may wind up skidding flat into the car in front of you.

Motorcycles have generally longer stopping distances than cars. 25-year-old motorcycles with no ABS have far longer stopping distances than modern ABS-equipped cars. For this reason alone you need to have much greater following distances when riding a GS500 vs. what would be safe in a car. Added to that is the risk to your person if you err on the side of following too close. That's why, for me, I choose to leave huge following distances. I don't trust my ability to keep the bike from doing just what yours did in an emergency stop, and I don't want to test it.

And I am truly sorry you got hurt, and I sincerely hope you heal up quickly and get everything back on the road again. I also hope you learn whatever you can from this. And I'm going to add you to my ignore list, and that is personal.

you're just being a subtle troll at this point.
There's criticism, then there's word play, then there's picking every last damn thing apart. And you did the latter here. you're arguing this just to argue it, for what reason? Because you weren't there, and you weren't in my shoes at the time. You believe all you want, but for you to argue that my "skill" wasn't enough was beyond insulting.

I ride EVERY GOD DAMN DAY. FOR THE PAST 7 YEARS! COLD, HOT, RAIN OR SHINE. DOESN'T MATTER. I have 500 mile days, over 300 hours of 2up riding, Drag racing on two wheels and track experience on two wheels, I've taken the advance riding courses. and one beginner off-road dirt biking course.

So piss off. The fact you defend and justify the retard making a u-turn literally makes you no better, so go break YOUR face on a guard rail too.

edit: my bike is OEM, because the stock fork brace sucks, THAT's My fault right? Not the engineers over at Suzuki? you're just adding words here to pad your argument, you could of simply said, like @user11235813 did, and I would of never even responded to you as I read what he had to say and choose to listen to it or not.

[qcbaker]

you're just being a subtle troll at this point.
There's criticism, then there's word play, then there's picking every last damn thing apart. And you did the latter here. you're arguing this just to argue it, for what reason? Because you weren't there, and you weren't in my shoes at the time. You believe all you want, but for you to argue that my "skill" wasn't enough was beyond insulting.

Sounds to me like you're just refusing to admit that your accident might have been at least partly your fault. Some introspection might be beneficial.

I ride EVERY GOD DAMN DAY. FOR THE PAST 7 YEARS! COLD, HOT, RAIN OR SHINE. DOESN'T MATTER. I have 500 mile days, over 300 hours of 2up riding, Drag racing on two wheels and track experience on two wheels, I've taken the advance riding courses. and one beginner off-road dirt biking course.

Neat. None of that is relevant right now. All that matters is the person in front of you braked suddenly and you weren't able to bring your bike to a controlled stop. Why weren't you able to do that? The way I see it, there are 3 things that could have contributed to the crash:

1. You were following closer than you should have been given the speed and conditions.

You've said this isn't the case, and I wasn't there so I can't really objectively comment. You said that there was space between you and the car ahead after you crashed. So I'll just say you weren't following too close and had you not crashed, your bike would have come to a controlled stop without hitting the car in front of you.

2. You didn't brake properly.

You've just touted your long list of moto experience so I know you probably don't believe this to be the case, but the fact is that you locked up the front wheel. Sounds like too much front brake to me. I'm struggling to think of a reason this would occur other than you braking too hard. Why do you think the front wheel locked?

3. There was something mechanically wrong with your bike.

Now, I don't know the exact state of your bike during the crash but I do know you've had a laundry list of issues with it, and you were riding with no fork brace. Was the bike in a "safe to ride" condition? Somehow I kind of doubt that.

So piss off. The fact you defend and justify the retard making a u-turn literally makes you no better, so go break YOUR face on a guard rail too.

Dude, chill. It's not that serious. The same exact thing probably would have happened had a deer run out in front of the car in front of you. It's not the U turn thing that made you crash. It's the fact that you couldn't come to a controlled stop.

edit: my bike is OEM, because the stock fork brace sucks, THAT's My fault right? Not the engineers over at Suzuki? you're just adding words here to pad your argument, you could of simply said, like @user11235813 did, and I would of never even responded to you as I read what he had to say and choose to listen to it or not.

Why were you riding with no fork brace? Sure, the stock one isn't amazing, but surely its better than nothing at all. What did you expect to happen when you braked hard? You removed the part of the bike that prevents the wheel from snapping left or right under stress and are now upset that the wheel snapped right under stress? That's some Olympic gold medal level mental gymnastics there.

If the fork brace (or lack thereof) was the reason you crashed, you're the one who chose to ride the bike in that state. It failing under stress is your fault.

You choose to blame the fork brace, the driver in front of you, the U-Turner, or whatever else you want. But you played a part in this crash. And refusing to acknowledge that is not going to help you avoid this type of thing in the future.

[The Buddha]

Locking the front and pushing to 1 side are semi independent. I can lock up easier. However it tracks straight most of the time, it actually tracks the road, if there is those goddawful stratches in the road called "rain grooves" like in CA, it will tend to track those. Also with a kat or a GSXR FE the bike will tend to stoppie a bit more too.
Cool.
Buddha.

[J_Walker]

you're just being a subtle troll at this point.
There's criticism, then there's word play, then there's picking every last damn thing apart. And you did the latter here. you're arguing this just to argue it, for what reason? Because you weren't there, and you weren't in my shoes at the time. You believe all you want, but for you to argue that my "skill" wasn't enough was beyond insulting.

Sounds to me like you're just refusing to admit that your accident might have been at least partly your fault. Some introspection might be beneficial.

I ride EVERY GOD DAMN DAY. FOR THE PAST 7 YEARS! COLD, HOT, RAIN OR SHINE. DOESN'T MATTER. I have 500 mile days, over 300 hours of 2up riding, Drag racing on two wheels and track experience on two wheels, I've taken the advance riding courses. and one beginner off-road dirt biking course.

Neat. None of that is relevant right now. All that matters is the person in front of you braked suddenly and you weren't able to bring your bike to a controlled stop. Why weren't you able to do that? The way I see it, there are 3 things that could have contributed to the crash:

1. You were following closer than you should have been given the speed and conditions.

You've said this isn't the case, and I wasn't there so I can't really objectively comment. You said that there was space between you and the car ahead after you crashed. So I'll just say you weren't following too close and had you not crashed, your bike would have come to a controlled stop without hitting the car in front of you.

2. You didn't brake properly.

You've just touted your long list of moto experience so I know you probably don't believe this to be the case, but the fact is that you locked up the front wheel. Sounds like too much front brake to me. I'm struggling to think of a reason this would occur other than you braking too hard. Why do you think the front wheel locked?

3. There was something mechanically wrong with your bike.

Now, I don't know the exact state of your bike during the crash but I do know you've had a laundry list of issues with it, and you were riding with no fork brace. Was the bike in a "safe to ride" condition? Somehow I kind of doubt that.

So piss off. The fact you defend and justify the retard making a u-turn literally makes you no better, so go break YOUR face on a guard rail too.

Dude, chill. It's not that serious. The same exact thing probably would have happened had a deer run out in front of the car in front of you. It's not the U turn thing that made you crash. It's the fact that you couldn't come to a controlled stop.

edit: my bike is OEM, because the stock fork brace sucks, THAT's My fault right? Not the engineers over at Suzuki? you're just adding words here to pad your argument, you could of simply said, like @user11235813 did, and I would of never even responded to you as I read what he had to say and choose to listen to it or not.

Why were you riding with no fork brace? Sure, the stock one isn't amazing, but surely its better than nothing at all. What did you expect to happen when you braked hard? You removed the part of the bike that prevents the wheel from snapping left or right under stress and are now upset that the wheel snapped right under stress? That's some Olympic gold medal level mental gymnastics there.

If the fork brace (or lack thereof) was the reason you crashed, you're the one who chose to ride the bike in that state. It failing under stress is your fault.

You choose to blame the fork brace, the driver in front of you, the U-Turner, or whatever else you want. But you played a part in this crash. And refusing to acknowledge that is not going to help you avoid this type of thing in the future.

Do me a favor, and take a picture of yourself moving some goal post.

At this rate your post is just making me laugh.

Everything bolded is wrong, I'm not going to tell you how its wrong, but clearly your reading comprehension is lacking. because all of it has be addressed already.

You write like an internet troll for sure. Just writing broad assuming statements that roughly fall inline with the topic at hand, but at the same time none of it is relevant to the topic, you throw just enough subtle low key insults to piss someone off while saying "Not to make you mad or anything" to deflect the focus off yourself. acting like you're the one being nice or the bigger man, while focusing the attention on the person you've pissed off to make it seem like they're acting irrational.

Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

[mr72]

Wow, this really went off the rails.

'Hey everybody, please come join me in ranting against this idiot doing a U turn and another idiot on their phone and my POS GS500 for causing my wreck.

What, what? You think it might have been my fault? YOU'RE A TROLL AND CAN'T READ!!'

[twocool]

This thread is a learning experience...in more ways than one.

Cookie

Wow, this really went off the rails.

'Hey everybody, please come join me in ranting against this idiot doing a U turn and another idiot on their phone and my POS GS500 for causing my wreck.

What, what? You think it might have been my fault? YOU'RE A TROLL AND CAN'T READ!!'