Triumph Talk

[Kilted1]

Currently on my 750cc Monster I'm getting around 45mpg.  When I had my CB500F I got around 45mpg.  When I had my Buell Lightning I got around 45mpg.
In all three cases I had about the same mix of in-town, interstate, and for-fun riding, with the same hard accelleration off of stop lights and exitimg corners with each.
All three bikes weighed about the same, I've weighed about the same, and being all "naked" bikes with small windscreens they've all had about the same aerodynamics.

That's fascinating.  As I recall, my CB750F got about 45MPG.  My XS650 got around 45MPG.  My GS500 gets in the neighborhood of 45MPG.  And my YY250T scooter also gets pretty close to 45MPG.  It almost seems strange that the 2-stroke Suzuki 185 I had in high school got about 90.

[mr72]

Did a ~110 mile round trip through the hilly/twisty backroads and some long stretches of 65mph highway on the Triumph on Saturday. Last half hour of the ride was sort of misery due to a combination of factors, one of which is comfort.

I am going to have to do something about that seat!!

After nearly a month off I decided to take the GS for a spin to the grocery store the next day. Of course the first thing I noticed is how infinitely more comfortable the seat is. Yes, I did add/reshape foam and recover the GS's seat repeatedly to get it right so it's not a fair comparison. And I was reminded that the GS's suspension is just way better than the Triumph. But you know, I upgraded and tuned that too. But once I got rolling I really thought something was broken on the GS. It just felt like it was running on one cylinder. It wasn't, of course. It just has like 1/2 the power of the Triumph and man you could feel it. Once I got used to riding it again, keeping the revs up, etc., it was more back to normal, and a lot of the charm of that bike (and the light weight!) really spoke to me. It was saying, "don't sell me! don't sell me!"

So the next serious order of business is to replace the seat on the Triumph. So far "Progressive Suspension" is still waiting to ship me the bushings that'll allow me to install my new(used) rear shocks, which should improve the suspension, but they are relocating their warehouse and told me frankly they don't have a date for when they will ship those parts. It's been about 6 weeks. Once I get those installed I'm sure I'll deal with the fork springs, still on the fence about whether to do matching Progressive (brand) springs (which are dual-rate) to go with the shocks, or whether to hit up Sonic Springs for a set of linear-rate springs like I have in the GS. I do think there's a real difference wth the extra inch of travel in the GS, where a softer linear-rate spring can be used in the longer-travel bike but to get them stiff enough for bottoming resistance with only 4" of travel would probably mean they would be overly harsh over bumps so dual-rate could be a better option just for comfort.

The long ride was also done with the Uni filter installed on the Triumph and the gas mileage is indeed improved, just under 42mpg. Still not very good but way better than before. I think some of this was non-ideal for MPG anyway. We took a different route out than we did coming back. On the way out it was windy/hilly back roads with 45-60mph speeds and a little 4th-5th gear switching coming out of corners and up hills, and once that road straightened out we had about 30 miles of riding 60mph into a 20+ mph head wind. Coming home we took a nice comfy back road for about 15 miles and then switched to a country highway with 65mph speed limit, and it was getting dark and cold so I put my head down and kept the speedo on 65 the whole way, which is about 4K rpm on the Bonnie, definitely above the efficient cruising range.

I am guessing that with the Uni filter, my more routine riding of backroads with gentle cruising at 40-50mph will probably yield nearly 45mpg. We'll see. That'll be a little more acceptable.

Next long trip like this, I'm going to have to seriously consider taking the GS instead. Better fuel mileage, more comfortable, a lot quieter.

[1018cc]

It is certainly odd why you are trying hard for low 40s fuel economy. I've been watching this thread since you started it and took note last time I filled up and I got 41.8US MPG (that was 50% around town riding with brisk acceleration from the lights, accidental wheelies, spirited riding in some twisties and some highway at 100km/h) and that was on my 2012 Ducati Multistrada 1200s (150hp/118Nm) with -1 tooth on the front for better acceleration.

A bit of rambling on sorry but it seems odd that you really have to try to hit low 40s for fuel economy. Maybe most bonnie owners buy them for fun and don't care about fuel economy so your new tune is biased towards performance? Either way bikes tend to get a lot better mileage than cars so you could consider yourself lucky in that respect.

Sent from my F8132 using Tapatalk

[mr72]

I agree this tune is absolutely made to make maximum power with a certain prescribed set of mods, and I have a similar set of mods so it's the most appropriate out of the box tune but it's certainly not balanced towards fuel economy.

I will likely wind up tinkering with the tune once I have time to fix the neutral switch (don't ask...), maybe lean it a couple of % at certain light throttle lower rpm conditions just to give a bit better fuel economy. I have the technology to do this.

[qcbaker]

Lol, I think you might just be addicted to tinkering

[mr72]

Lol, I think you might just be addicted to tinkering

What? Me? No way.

[mr72]

Stuff Euro Bike Owners Do Edition

Today I ordered a $400+ seat for my Triumph. Why? Well, the stock seat is uncomfortable after ten minutes and downright painful after an hour. Of course, the same was true for my GS. With the GS, well that was a bike that cost me $900 so I wasn't going to drop $400 on a seat. Instead I took the cover off of the original seat, reshaped it, added/changed foam, then recovered it myself, all at a cost of, um, about $0. But the Triumph? Yeah I gladly dropped $400 on a new seat.

The new seat does have upgrades beyond just comfort. It's probably 1.5" taller than the seat I have, and for me with a 33" inseam this will be a huge improvement. Also, it is a more premium quality seat with that snazzy old school gold leaf "Triumph" logo on the back, which has to be worth something. Thing is, the Triumph stock seat has this kind of textured/patterned top on it so a wholesale recovering wasn't really in the cards like it was with the GS. And since the stock cover is shaped to match the seat/foam then adding foam to increase height and experiment with different cushioning wasn't really possible. So new seat. Oh yeah, coming from England, with a 4-6 week lead time.

I also, with much pain and suffering, got 75% of the shock bushings installed on the new rear shocks. I swapped the front springs easily enough, that's a job I've done many times. But those freakin' shock eye bushings are a colossal pain. I bought the shocks used for 1/3 the cost of new, which seems like a deal until you count the 20 hours of labor it takes to swap the bushings since these had bushings for a later model bike that didn't fit. I'm exaggerating, but only a little. But of course I have one more bushing to install, which is easier said than done, then I am still waiting on those little metal sleeves which are needed before I can install the shocks.

So once this is all done I will have upgraded the suspension on both ends, exhaust, and seat at an upgrade cost right around $1K, or about 25% of the cost of the bike. I'm still below the market value of this bike and it's getting closer do dialed in.

[qcbaker]

Stuff Euro Bike Owners Do Edition

Today I ordered a $400+ seat for my Triumph. Why? Well, the stock seat is uncomfortable after ten minutes and downright painful after an hour. Of course, the same was true for my GS. With the GS, well that was a bike that cost me $900 so I wasn't going to drop $400 on a seat. Instead I took the cover off of the original seat, reshaped it, added/changed foam, then recovered it myself, all at a cost of, um, about $0. But the Triumph? Yeah I gladly dropped $400 on a new seat.

The new seat does have upgrades beyond just comfort. It's probably 1.5" taller than the seat I have, and for me with a 33" inseam this will be a huge improvement. Also, it is a more premium quality seat with that snazzy old school gold leaf "Triumph" logo on the back, which has to be worth something. Thing is, the Triumph stock seat has this kind of textured/patterned top on it so a wholesale recovering wasn't really in the cards like it was with the GS. And since the stock cover is shaped to match the seat/foam then adding foam to increase height and experiment with different cushioning wasn't really possible. So new seat. Oh yeah, coming from England, with a 4-6 week lead time.

Make sure they throw in that Triumph branded leather keytag!

All jokes aside, a comfy seat is such a good QoL mod, $400 is probably worth it for all the added comfort down the road.

[mr72]

Make sure they throw in that Triumph branded leather keytag!

Yeah! I could always use another one! But this is an aftermarket seat anyway made by "Burton Bike Bits" out of England who makes a jillion British bike parts. And a super premium seat.

All jokes aside, a comfy seat is such a good QoL mod, $400 is probably worth it for all the added comfort down the road.

Yes, that's what I thought too and I actually budgeted for this when I bought the bike. I didn't want to spend meaningful money on a motorcycle that wasn't comfortable to ride.  I felt the same way about the exhaust and the expensive pannier I bought. My budget for this motorcycle was about $8K and I bought it for half that so the other half was available to upgrade/repair/modify as needed. I'm way under-budget. Actually quite glad I didn't buy a new Street Twin and wind up with all of my budget in the base bike and no money for dialing it in.

[mr72]

The top reason for keeping my GS forever is emerging: freakin' parts for this Triumph take forever to get here.

I've now been waiting since October, yes 2.5 months, for a set of four little metal sleeves, sort of steel bushings, that ride between the polyurethane shock eye bushing and the post on the frame. These are required to install my Progressive shocks, which I bought used literally the day after I bought the Triumph but happened to come with the wrong size bushings. So it was the first part I bought, might be the last I get installed. In this case the shocks are actually made by an American company so I can't even blame the UK shipping as part of the problem. The company relocated their warehouse like a week after I ordered the parts (bushings plus sleeves) and my parts were on backorder when I ordered them, the whole order/delivery has gotten lost in the move and I've been calling them weekly to remind them that I have $8 worth of parts due.

OTOH my beloved Suzuki ... well I can get parts anywhere, including more than one dealer in Austin, or improvise stuff that gets the job done. For the most part I can get anything for the GS either from a forum member here or on Amazon or ebay and have it here in a couple of days max. Not that it needs any parts, but that's because I haven't ridden it more than 10 miles since I bought the Triumph three months ago.

I did order that new fancy seat about two weeks ago, and the company I ordered it from said there was a "4-5 week lead time", but they advised that they were closing on Dec. 21, the day after I ordered the seat, not to reopen until "after the holidays" which I think means today. My guess is the 4-5 week lead time doesn't include the two weeks that have passed since I ordered it, and the clock starts now. And if history is any predictor, it'll be 5+ weeks, plus 10 days shipping time from UK because of Royal Post or whatever, so I'll be looking for that seat to arrive in about March.

I did install a H4 LED replacement "bulb" in the Triumph and this will likely fit GS500Es as well, in case anyone's interested. Here's the link:
http://stores.advmonster.com/h4-r3-led-headlight/

Recall in my GS I have a LED whole lamp assy replacement and it's killer. I was hoping to get something similar in performance for the Triumph without spoiling the look of the stock headlight, since my GS's replacement has that kind of Darthvaderesque look that wouldn't fit at all on the Bonnie. I still recommend the other lamp like I have in my GS if you are doing a GS500E LED upgrade, but if you really want to keep the reflector, this bulb may work well. It's very good in the Triumph, looks great and performs perfectly.

There's still a list of mods and parts that I need for my Triumph to make it perfect. Funny thing is, I never considered making my GS perfect and it wound up pretty close to perfect anyway.

- new seat -- on the way, eventually
- suspension upgrade : front done with Progressive springs bought used, rear, 99% of parts on hand just waiting for the metal sleeves
- handlebar -- I have my old junk box Superbike bar on the Bonnie but it's pretty ratty and I would like an aluminum version, if such exists
- exhaust -- swapped, in good shape, even though it's loud and sounds like half of a high-schooler's Honda Civic

I upgraded the seat, suspension, handlebars and even to an extent the exhaust on the GS. I guess this is par for the course. It was way cheaper on the GS but a lot more actual work and less waiting on stuff to wind up in the mailbox.

Funny how talking about my Triumph makes me want to go out and ride the GS. I do have a list of mods I need to do on the GS:

- remove the handlebar risers and reroute the cables back to stock -- I put this on in an attempt to get a slightly more relaxed riding position on the GS but the Triumph gets that itch scratched really well and now I'd like to undo it on the GS and get a little bit of it's sport back.
- shim up the wobbly side stand
- do a thorough cleaning, it needs it.
- ride it ? Yeah, that's all it needs!

[ShowBizWolf]

I think Bluesmudge uses that R3 bulb in his GS500F IIRC.

I didn't have that one, I had the Native H4 from that same site. It fit perfectly in the stock round headlight bucket on my E and I loved it!

I remember it stirring up some debate here on the forum about how LED bulbs "just won't work correctly" in housings not designed for them... but I trusted my eyes and personal experience, rather than a member on here who was just here for a small blip of time lol.

I'm enjoying this thread mr72

[mr72]

Yeah if it works, it works. I didn't want to spoil the look of the triumph with a complete headlamp, so that R3 bulb was worth a try. Still haven't ridden at night and haven't compared it directly with the GS.

I tend to agree that a dedicated LED emitter/projector headlamp assembly is likely to perform better than a "bulb" replacement put into a reflector headlamp, but it's entirely possible and even likely that a replacement "bulb" like this can perform better than the original halogen bulb. Like I say, I am not sure it's really as good as the dedicated LED lamp in the GS but it does look a lot more like it belongs on a Triumph Bonneville.

[mr72]

BTW I have ridden short little bits at night with that R3 headlight and it's spectacular. Might even be better than the GS's LED light assy.

[ShowBizWolf]

That is fantastic!!!

In that thread I mentioned, I tried to explain that advmonster.com specifically set out to design drop-in LED bulbs that WOULD work in those kinds of housings... but it was falling on deaf ears (or blind eyes lol).

I will be honest and say this though (and it's in my project thread too)... when I tried out the Native H4 in the gixxer headlight assembly I installed on my GS, it was absolutely horrible and I wasn't able to use it.

[mr72]

Did you try the H4 in any other headlight assembly?

I suppose it's fair to say that not all LED replacement bulbs for reflector housings are created equal. There are dozens of different ones available at every price point from Amazon and eBay, not to mention things like dealxtreme or alibaba where you are seriously rolling the dice. Good to know what works specifically and what doesn't. My guess is the reflector/lens design of the GSXR headlight was just not compatible with that bulb.

And I will note, I didn't try these R3s in a GS500. This is in my Triumph which has a 7" round headlight assembly not unlike a GS500E but obviously not identical. I do think it's worth a try in a GS500E headlight because if it can be made to fit (the heat sink part...) and if it performs like this then it would be a first-rate modification for sure. However I do think dropping in the headlight whole assembly with an LED emitter like the one in my GS500 is an easier mod but that light cost over $100 and changes the look a whole lot.

[mr72]

I decided to take the GS for a longish spin today. After riding the triumph for the last couple of months it was kind of a shock. First, I wonder how I ever rode this thing with the pegs so high. Man that's cramped for my long legs. It took putting it on prime and a lot of effort to start it and once it wat running again I had the distinct feeling like it was running on one cylinder. It isn't, but the 180 degree firing order coupled with the huge displacement deficit just made me think feel that way.

Once I remembered how to ride it, all was well. I had to break the habit I developed on the triumph of shifting at 5k RPM and trying to accelerate out of corners at 2k. Once I got it back up in the revs it was good to go.

So definitely the GS is going to be more adventurized. I have to move those foot pegs, no question about it, even if I have to hire a welder. I mostly was reminded how I need to ride the GS more often and how I had missed it.