DRUG RAID At my School!!!!!

[Zarathustra]

hey all, it's been months since i posted here, but i've had some crazy stuff going on lately.  What with college, winter without my bike, and loads of other personal junk, i've been bogged down.  Just got back to this page today and saw this article and i've got a few questions for anyone else with legal information or with working knowledge of highschool law.  It seems to me that bringing in drug dogs, and instituting pat downs is a violation of rights.  I may have only had a few american judicial system classes here at school, but all the same, they had no suspicion, no cause, and no reason to even detain you.  To randomly search every student is a violation of personal privacy, which is protected under the 6th and 15th amendments.

i realized that school is private property, but all the same, without cause you cannot be searched anywhere.  i would imagine that if a kid who got busted this way wanted to make it a serious legal issue with appelate courts and what not they would make quite a headline.  So anyone that can clear up for me why they can now legally do this in highschool, i'd be interested.  oh, and i'll try to get back into the swing of things on this board again, catch ya later.

[Zarathustra]

man only 433 posts     i fell so far behind everyone in my absence.

[alerbaugh]

dude im sittin in school now; cellphone out and text messaging my girlfriend.  my school is leanient on cell phones and drugs are not taken seriously.  We live in th eproclaimed meth capital or the U.S. because of highway 81.  I dont know much about it but we have dog searches about once a year.

[fmikex]

well first off if the parents went to the police station they could prob. get there kids cellphones back. not that they should,why do kids need cellphones really? let me say it sucks that kids have to go through this..but! somekids brought it to them. there are to many punks in school and there getting others into drugs and such. the fact is kids need a scare they need to know its not a game or a MTV video. kids are dieing nowadays from drugs and violence and if this help save one kid its worth it. now if the parents would put a foot in there a@@ now and then i think kids would think twice about what there doing because they know theres going to be a reaction to every action. I.E. kid+lie = kick in the a@@. its that easy!! you think i am wrong? think about your little sister having sex with 5 or 10 guys at a party because she needed some crack or wanted to be popular, don't say it wouldn't happen because i know a girl that slept with every guy at a party just because she wanted the attention. boy did i make this long or what, ok i'm done

[Zarathustra]

that's a pretty bad argument fmikex.  some kids brought it on themselves, so therefore the whole school populace should be treated like criminals?  Well hey, there's plenty of crackheads and dope smokers across the USA, and they're adults, maybe we all brought it on ourselves too and should be searched randomly with no prior cause or reasonable suspicion, right?  raiding schools for guns and drugs is not going to stop kids from using them.  to assume that it will assumes a direct causation that no one has any reason to assume.  teaching a kid that if he does drugs his parents will be mad at him does not teach him good cause effect relationships.  teaching a kid that if he does drug A that negative consequences such as physical damage, addiction, etc will happen to him is.  Teach the kids why they shouldn't do drugs and carry guns, not just that you don't think they should.  kids don't respect authority that doesn't back up their claims with reason, at least me and my friends never did back then.

[richard]

If they had reasonable cause for the search, then it's legal...  which it sounds like they did.  and it didn't sound like they searched everyone's belongings or anything, just searched for drugs with drug dogs, which means they probably didn't even touch most kids stuff at all... just the ones who had illegal drugs.  Sure, it inconveniences the others, but it also helps the others realize that it's stupid to have drugs, since they will quite likely get caught.

Cell phone is what doesn't make sense to me.  Sure, many kids have no use for them, but when I was in highschool I needed a cell phone.  I kept the ringer off during class (which they should do, if they have them.. it's only polite) but I needed it for my job.  I was doing professional web development when I was in highschool... not just making web pages, writing software, like this message forum, or performance management software that HR depts in big companies are still using.

No, I'm not intending to brag, nor do I think that I was "so cool" when I was in highschool.. actually, I was a bit of a geek.  alright, so I still am.  the point is, though, that many kids have legitimate reasons that they need cell phones.  No, they don't have legit reasons that they need to answer them during class, but not even having them in their backpacks?  that's insane.

[Zarathustra]

what i'm asking is what makes it sound like they had reasonable cause for the search?  "uhhh, we think some kids at this school use drugs."  "hey, lets just search them all indescriminately!"  that's the thought process i'm getting out of this search.  you must have reasonable cause per person not just per school.  as to the usage of drug dogs, therefore that not meaning it was a search; a lineup of students subjected to one at a time sniffing, is a search.  i dunno, i just think it sounds rather questionable.  yeah kids shouldn't have drugs in school, but kids shouldn't be treated like criminals either (then again i don't think anyone with drugs should be treated like a criminal; but that's me).

[CasiUSA]

If a cellphone is on that's one thing. There's a simple answer: Turn it off during class or get it taken away. That's perfectly reasonable.  

People are so stupid. I hate authority. A lot.

[fmikex]

well i don't like the idea of people loseing there freedom anymore than any of you, but something must be done. kids need that dose of reality to understand what there getting into is wrong. doing heavy drugs or should i say doing drug heavy always screws up your life and can destroy families, do you really think the cops got enough drugs to make a small dent in what is sold/used buy school kids? not even close they were making a statement to the people selling it in schools the people supplying it to them and most of all the kids who will be faced with the choice of doing or selling it in the future. the cops know alot about what goes on around town they know what kids are or probably are selling it and who they get it from. just think if they let it just happen without doing anythingto stop it or keep it under control. sense the 70's its gone from kids smoking pot before class to selling hard drugs in class.some kids in school are druggy losers but most are fine, how is looking for drugs in school hurt the kids that don't have any? what freedom did they lose from not having anything to put in that box?some did lose there cells and that is wrong and the parents need to stand up for there kids rights. besides a locker search is alot better than the full body cavity search they get going into jail.you think your losing freedom now? wait till crime gets even more out of control.you will lose more of you freedom maybe all your freedom.the only chance there is to stopping it the way things are going is to keep crime under control.and to stand up for your rights. but nobody has the right to steal, murder or sell illegal drugs

[CasiUSA]

OK, why does it stop at kids? Why don't we start going in and doing random searches on low class neighborhoods? Or on minority neighborhoods?

The fact is that F-ing parents are taking no reponsibility for their kids, and instead, spending their time complaining to other people. If you raise your kid to know the difference between right and wrong, he/she will not have these problems later in life. And the fact of the matter is that kids will always have a choice, the answer lies in teaching them how to make thse choices. God knows I've had enough opportunities to do stupid things, but my solid upbringing directed me otherwise.  :x

[Kerry]

ACE hasn't been back to clarify about the cell phones.  Maybe the act of bringing a cell phone in school wasn't illegal in and of itself.  Maybe it was illegal to have one that belonged to someone else (stolen) or that was linked to drug ops or something?

[Zarathustra]

fmikex

first you say that the kids who were wrongly searched lost nothing for it (that it was ok), and then you say people should stand up for their rights.  well which is it?  should inocent people have to allow themselves to be searched for no reason, or should they stand up for their rights and not be?  let's not be contradictory here.

[yamahonkawazuki]

why need a cell phone, youre in class, there are payphones nearby, folks need to get ahold of you, call the office they come after you :dunno:

[CasiUSA]

why need a cell phone, youre in class, there are payphones nearby, folks need to get ahold of you, call the office they come after you

CAUSE THIS IS MOTHER F-ING AMERICA!!! This bill called the constitution pretty much ensures I can do whatever the hell I want as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone elses rights. If I feel like saying that Bush is a raging idiot, it is my god-given right to do so.  :x

Sorry, nothing annoys me more than people telling me I can't o things.
PS John Ashcroft needs to get kicked in the teeth. I want my civil rights back.

[Kerry]

I agree that kids probably don't NEED to have a cellphone in class.  But that they should feel obligated to surrender them just because a policeman says so?  That's why I'm wondering what kind of "Uh-oh!  Caught!" reactions were going on in the room.

So I'd still like to know - what's the school policy (and the law) in ACE's area?

[richard]

I don't remember the specific sections, but there is a provision in the law where at times officers put themselves on the line.  If they find something, the search was justified, if not, they go to jail.  it's not a very often used clause, since if you're wrong you pay for it, seriously.

I didn't see anything about people being wrongfully searched... my impression was that the cops came in, told everyone to put everything that they had that was illegal in the box, and then had drug sniffing dogs look for drugs.  I didn't hear anything about random searches of backpacks, strip searches, or anything else that in any way violated anyone's constitutional rights.  If a drug dog decides there is drugs in a locker or backpack, that's considered justifiable cause to search that backpack in most people's opinion.

So in other words, I don't think they even needed a warrant for what they did.  They only need a warrant to search something that the kids won't let them search... and even then, if a dog says there is drugs in it, they probably won't have trouble getting one.

now, if they had come through and started doing random searches of lockers, or backpacks, or anything like that... now then I would join with anyone else wanting to fight that to the last.

Also, how do you know they didn't have reason to believe there were drugs there?  They may have had camera footage of drug sales on campus, or firsthand reports, or any number of other things that would hold up in court good enough to get them a warrant.... we don't know.  again, though, I don't think anything they did violated anyone's personal rights.

I do have to say, though, that unless there are some laws that have been made in that state about cell phones, anyone who threw their phone in the box was foolish... since a dog won't find that, and I can't see how it could be illegal, honestly.  I wonder if it's legal for them to tell the students to do something that the cops can't actually enforce?  For instance, maybe they ask for the cell phones, then gave them to the administration... but if anyone didn't give up their cell phone, they wouldn't get in trouble.

interesting questions...  do we really have no law enforcement on this page that could clarify?

[CasiUSA]

Well, the fact that there were kids there, innocent or not, and trying to get an education does not warrant a searching or assumption of guilt. Regardless of whether they are guilty or not, a school is a learning institution, and kids should not have to enter with fear of being violated by the police. It is not some rough street corner, it is a school.
Cops are sneaky. They knew the kids didn't know any better than to say no because it is their right to say so. They just submitted because the police were bullying them into doing their jobs because the pigs were too lazy to do it themselves.
As for a reasonable search on the guilty parties, that's fine..IF they had a reasonable cause. That still does not warrant going through ALL the classes one by one.

:nana: SUCK :x IT :x PIGS :nana:

[john]

:nana: SUCK :x IT :x PIGS :nana:

Nice custom title CasiCUA  :lol:  

[BigRedMonkeyButt]

Ok. First.
The police can ask the school: "Can we search the school?"
Of course the school says: "Sure, because we dont want drugs in our school"
The police then have the right to search the property.

Lockers are school property, and therefore the cops can search them.  The students have NO RIGHT TO PRIVACY in lockers.

Drug dogs through the class room, is also LEGAL. They are not searching the students or their bags, but if the dog smells something on a student, the police then have PROBABLE CAUSE to search that student's belongings.  

Whether you like it or not, it IS LEGAL.  Thats the way it is, so get over it.

I think the cops were being pretty nice by giving them the box to put their drugs in in the first place.  Where I went to school, you didnt get a box.  If you had drugs, you go to jail.  
Seems pretty fair to me.

I dont like authority all that much either, but some of you guys are just being childish.

[fmikex]

now there is no law i know of that says kids can't have cell phones, and with kids disappearing getting raped and murdered i think its a good idea for them to have a way to call for help if theres someone following them or there lost or whatever. but lets remember people this was a public school see thats alot different than going into your house and searching your stuff. i mean if you get pulled over for driving crazy the cops can search your car even get dogs to sniff it out. but without just cause they can not go into your home and start searching. its against your right as a U.S. citizen, but you give up alot of them rights when you commit a crime. it there choice. do the crime and take the chance or stay strait and have no worry. as i understand there were no personal searchs on people. if a cops put his hands on my 12 year old daughter to search her without a just cause, i am going to fight for my daughters right not to be touched buy anybody she doesn't want to be touched buy. but if she is smoking pot behind the school and gets busted. i would think it was fine for a female cops to search her. fight for your rights people if you believe drugs should be legal fight for it, its your right. but if you don't don't cry when you get busted.
besides just think about the kids the punk druggy kids nowadays are going to raise, and what they will be like and there kids and theres. its your future who do you want living next door to you and your kids??