Out of gas, no reserve?

[oldsport]

2002 GS500E

Today, it started sputtering so I switched to reserve but it wouldn't pick up and finally died.  At the side of the road, I put it on prime and sat for 20-30 seconds and then restarted.  It still wouldn't run cleanly.  I could get up to 10 or 15 mph but it would die if I let go of the throttle.

Luckily, I was near a station and sputtered in.  I could see maybe a 1/2 in. in the tank.  After I filled up to the bottom of the neck, it held 5.0000 gallons. I believe it holds 5.3 total?  

So what happened here?  Was .3 gallons the reserve?  Why wouldn't it pick up?  

I won't let this happen again.  

I hate to think about the news report if.......
"Today, an unidentified gentleman was found laying along I-405 with Buick tire marks up his back."

[Kerry]

What we all want to know is: How many miles did you get from those 5.0000 gallons?  

Seriously ... in my experience .3 gallons is the equivalent of fumes.  Definitely beyond REServe and down into PRIme territory.  Are you sure that the ON and RES lines haven't been switched?  And that you were using those post-2000 petcock positions correctly?  If I remember right, it's DOWN for ON, UP for REServe, and pointing REARward for PRIme.

According to the Spec Sheets from the Suzuki Past Showrooms, the tank capacities are as follows:

====
2000
====
17 liters (4.5 gallons)
15 liters (4.0 gallons) - CA model

====
2001
====
20 liters (5.3 gallons)

====
2002
====
20 liters (5.3 gallons)
19 liters (5.0 gallons) - CA model

[MarkusN]

Yep, definitely sounds like RES / ON swapped to me.

[oldsport]

Swapped?  I hadn't thought of that one.  I'll check tomorrow.  I've never had the tank off but the original owner might?  He only put 528 mi. on it.

As for the miles, 261 mi.  That's about 52+?  

I usually get around 54 doing the commute.  I think I had some extra street riding miles on this tank.

Yes, it's down for on, up for res.

thanks

[The Buddha]

I thought it was up for prime... and forward for res... down is on of course.
Cool.
Srinath.

[Kerry]

I thought it was up for prime... and forward for res... down is on of course.

You got it right, but only for '89 - '00 models.  The '01+ models have a different petcock.

[JamesG]

The GS has a notoriously crappy fuel select/reserve system. Remember the GS doesn't have even the vacumm operated fuel pump the SV does. Its fuel flow is entirely gravity fed, and it has to push both itself, carb float needle valves, and the petcock diaphram open if not enough pressure is being pulled on it or its defective.

The quickest fix is to refuel when ever you get to 150 miles on the trip meter, and/or make sur the bike in "on" not "reserve" or "prime".

[oldsport]

Help please,

Clymer doesn't show the 2002 tank/petcock arrangement.  Can someone  tell me by looking at this cartoon if the hoses are connected properly?

Or possibly reversed?



2002

(Color coded for clarity only!)

Thanks,
OS

[Nomak]

BTW is it really bad riding the GS on PRI...? I think I need to get my carbs cleaned cause whenever I out it on ON or RES the bike hesitates and then stalls and then dies on me and will not start until I put it on PRI. I am goin to ask one of me buds to cleans  the carbs for me soon (I hope) But for not I am running it on PRI. I tried the STP Carb cleaner crap you put in with the Gas and it didnt do squat for the bike ... you guys got any other suggestions or do y'all think that I should just get me carbs cleaned?

[JamesG]

Nope you have them backwards.
The long front one is the "on" (its screen openings are higher) and the short rear one is the one for the reserve connector.

[oldsport]

Nope you have them backwards.
The long front one is the "on" (its screen openings are higher) and the short rear one is the one for the reserve connector.

Son of a gun.  James, you're the man.  

I doubt the tank has been off so I'll guess this was somone at the factory goofing with me. You think?

OS

[oldsport]

BTW is it really bad riding the GS on PRI...?  ... you guys got any other suggestions or do y'all think that I should just get me carbs cleaned?

If it's running OK on prime, then I doubt there's a problem with the carbs.  I'd be looking into cleaning or replacing the petcock don't you think?

As for running on prime, it shouldn't  be a problem.  

When parked, it could be another story.  The floats in the carbs should cut the fuel but I've seen cases where they allow leakage that results in overflow out and onto the ground.  If I were to run on PRI, I'd probably switch back to 'ON' when I shut the thing off.  Am I right?

OS

[Nomak]

It runs beautifully on PRI ... I havent seen any leakage but I normally put it back to ON when I park it for the night ... How difficult is it to replace the petcock? I wanna be sure its the petcock any way to check? BTW what is the idle RPM ? I keep mine just in between 1500 and 2000 RPM.

Thanks

[Kerry]

Nope you have them backwards.
The long front one is the "on" (its screen openings are higher) and the short rear one is the one for the reserve connector.

OK ... now I'M confused.

On the pre-2001 models the front tube was the longer one AND had the screen opening lower in the tank ... AND ... connected to the RES fuel hose.  Did this really change with the 2001 model?

I always assumed that the RES tube opening was lower in the tank because both tubes are the same length, and the RES tube was simply positioned a little lower.  Am I wrong on that?

While I'm on the topic, I've read about folks whose RES and/or ON tubes have pulled right out of the tank-mounted petcock.  Does this mean that you can adjust the positions of the outlet tubes?  Or just that bad things sometimes happen to good people?  :dunno:

[Kerry]

I wanna be sure its the petcock any way to check?

I understand you can open up the petcock and inspect the diaphragm inside for rips/tears/holes/gunk.

BTW what is the idle RPM ? I keep mine just in between 1500 and 2000 RPM.

The spec is 1200 RPM.  I try to keep mine centered between the 1000 mark and the 1500 mark.  (1200-1300)

[Rema1000]

I always assumed that the RES tube opening was lower in the tank because both tubes are the same length, and the RES tube was simply positioned a little lower.  Am I wrong on that?

I thought the same thing, until...

I've read about folks whose RES and/or ON tubes have pulled right out of the tank-mounted petcock.

...until I accidentally pulled-out the higher/shorter-looking tube... and it was a realy short tube (maybe an inch?).  The entire shorter tube was still shorter than the visible portion of the longer tube.  I had assumed that there were two copper tubes, each about 2.5 inches, running all the way up into the tank.  Instead, the tube that came out only went up about  1/4 inch into the tank petcock assembly.

So: no, swapping brass tubes would probably not switch anything.  The tubes are probably just different lengths so that the hose clamps don't interfere.

[oldsport]

I always assumed that the RES tube opening was lower in the tank because both tubes are the same length, and the RES tube was simply positioned a little lower.  Am I wrong on that? :dunno:

Let's get a 3rd opinion?  

Actually, I think James might be correct. Looking in Clymer, I think it shows the short tube out of the tank as reserve and the longer one the ON.

OK, it's late but I'll take a second and scan the book.  

............ I'm back now.  

Here's the picture.

[Kerry]

This is the classic diagram that gets everyone turned around.  (Same thing on BikeBandit.)  The tank petcock is shown rotated 180 degrees from its actual mounted position.  All I can figure is that they wanted to show the petcock shutoff valve rather than hide that detail.

The overall view angle for the diagram (from in front of and to the left of the bike) was probably selected to best show the details of the frame-mounted petcock, or perhaps only to be consistent with other diagrams.

Anyway, don't let the diagram fool you!  On an '89-'00 model, you can actually squat down with your head near the left spark plug and see a raised "R" stamped above the longer, front tube.  This picture was taken from in front of the petcock, and the shutoff valve definitely points toward the inside of the bike - the opposite of the orientation shown in the diagram.



There is a similarly-raised "O" above the shorter tube, but it's much harder to see (from behind, through the narrow space between the tank - or side plastic - and the frame).

How about a fourth opinion now, to tie it all together?  (Or are we up to 5?)  The problem with the Clymer diagram at this point is this: "OK, so the petcock is rotated 180 degrees.  How about the hoses that attach to the tubes - are they shown in the correct position, or have they been rotated to match the petcock?"

Here is a brilliant diagram that someone submitted from http://www.gs500.de


The original diagram was labeled in German.  I don't know German, so my English relabeling could be flawed, right?  OK, but if you match up the photo above with the German diagram, I think you will agree that the "RES Fuel Hose" label is correct.

======================================

My only remaining question is whether (and in what way) the 2001+ models departed from this setup.  Anyone care to check their known-to-be-unmodified bike?

EDIT: Changed links from sisna.com to bbburma.net

[MarkusN]

Kerry, your translation of the diagram is fine.

Nomak: Your problem with the bike only running on PRI is not necessarily caused by the petcock. If you have a vacuum leak from the carburetor to the petcock that would have the same result. Check if the vacuum hose from the top of the left carb is routed properly to the petcock, doesn't have any cracks in it and is noct squeezed or clogged.

[oldsport]

Wow. Thanks for all this, Kerry.

Ok, going back to my original drawing,


I haven't looked for the 'R' but lets assume that it's the same on the 2002, then the Res comes from the tank on the 'long' tube and connects to a fitting that enters the top of the petcock.  Your picture is different in that it shows Res coming out horizontal towards the rear.  

So I guess I still need to find out if the fitting coming from the top of the petcock is Res. (and the horizontal tube pointing to the rear is ON.)

HELLO - ARE THERE ANY OTHER 2001-2002 OWNERS WILLING TO TAKE A LOOK AT HOW YOUR HOSES ARE CONNECTED?  (sorry about the yelling).

You know, I think I might pull the tank this weekend just to see what's really under there.

Also Nomak, listen to MarkusN. He's correct.  Check that vacuum hose to the petcock to make sure it's attached and that there aren't any air leaks in it before you start worring about taking it apart.

OK!

OS