News:

Need a manual?  Buy a Haynes manual Here

Main Menu

mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"

Started by mr72, October 04, 2016, 08:04:27 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

mr72

Any of you who have been following this on the other forum know that I didn't intend for this bike to be a "project" but it's turning out to be one. At last I think I have the must-do mechanical stuff done and I can deal with cosmetics now.

Here's a crummy picture my wife took the day we brought the bike home:


Since then I have replaced the handlebar and mirrors. The tank is dented and even though I got it mostly straight (I have a little bit of bodywork skills) I decided to put an undented tank from an '07 on it, and it's in the mail. It'll need paint. The whole bike needs paint.

It has a bolt-on Yoshimura muffler from a GSXR 650. It looks to me like either an RS-1 or RS-3. It has an oval downturn outlet. My first question for you guys here is: will one of these cheap "dB Killer" inserts from ebay fit in this muffler? Because I've determined it's just too loud. Warm-up at 5K RPM wakes the neighbors and just cruising on neighborhood streets at 30 mph in 4th is just too much noise to be pleasant.

I'm going to paint this a couple of pieces at a time. Probably going to go with "Viper Red", a quart of single-stage from Summit Racing (house brand paint). I'll pull the fender, side/rear plastics and paint the new tank all together. The plastics and fender all need some love from a sanding block before they are ready for paint. Who knows what the new tank will look like when it gets here but I'm pretty solid with paint and prep. I have an LVLP rig and have painted cars before.

The white paint on the wheels, presuming from the factory and 25 years old, is chipping in places. Next question: can I strip this off with aircraft paint remover? Anyone tried that? I will probably rattle-can the wheels with some VHT wheel paint or something like that, and I think I'll do the fork lowers and fork brace in the same color. What does it typically cost to get the tires re-balanced?

The PO painted the frame with the bike completely torn down. How hard is it to get the bike torn down enough to paint the frame? I have read elsewhere on the forum it's maybe 3 hrs to tear it down if you "know what you are doing", but if I already have the tank and wheels off, and if I ignore the fork, then what kind of time are we talking? I am just wondering if I can spend a whole Saturday, tear the bike down, do all of the sanding and paint, then get it together same day or next day. Is there stuff I can leave on and mask, and still get the frame painted? Presumably the swingarm stays on (especially if I keep the same color).

[BTW this is one very good reason to use catalyzed urethane automotive paint instead of rattle-can ... not only is it far more durable but it will be dry enough to recoat in 15 minutes and you can assemble it in an hour, use it in two hours or so... you'd wait at least a week for rattle-can paint to be close to dry enough to use.]

Next real question: is the headlight supposed to appear level? Because mine doesn't. With the bike on the center stand on level garage floor, the headlight is a little bit rotated from level. I've disassembled and reassembled it and it seems to line up this way.

I also have a set of shorty levers on the way.

Q: What are my options for an alternative tail light? I want something more rounded etc. but still highly visible. Not the brick that's on there now. But not some low-profile pretend it's a cafe racer kind of thing. Just slightly less blocky. Is this a universal kind of thing?

Q: can I remove the triple clamp with the handlebars/controls still attached?

I have a list of things I plan to do sort of in this order. Idea is for nothing to require the bike to be down long enough to prevent me from riding it. Most of this I plan to do in the evenings during the week so the bike can be working for the weekend.

  • paint plastics and new tank, install new tank.
  • paint wheels & other parts that will be that color
  • paint frame. This may take two days if doing it in evenings after work.
  • Take controls off/apart. Replace ignition switch [I have a new one, current one is keyed different from the tank and seat lock]. Paint headlight. Replace turn signals with something else.Put it all back together.
  • consider engine paint/finish ... it's rough looking after being dropped on both sides by one or more previous owners.
  • umm... that's all it needs. Go ride!

mr72

#1
The "new" tank arrived. They shipped it with fuel in it!! Unbelievable!

Apparently it needed a cat scan after I unpacked it:



Anyway. It's pretty much mint condition besides paint flaws like a scratch or chip here and there but there is not a single solitary dent. Sanding and painting will fix everything. It's going to be fab!

In other news, I ran to my wit's end on the running issue it has, which is that it sputters and dies if you let it run below about 5K rpm when it's fully warmed up. I have checked everything to the limit of my knowledge and mechanical skill, so I'm taking it to the shop today and let a pro figure it out. I'm going to ask them to also sort out whatever remaining idle issues exist to make it run exactly right. I'm tired of working on the mechanicals and I'm ready to move to cosmetics.

Next is paint! Tank and side/tail plastics coming right up.

qcbaker

#2
Why would they ship a fuel tank with fuel in it? ??? I would've been worried about the fuel leaking out in some way and soaking the package (and probably other packages) in an extremely flammable liquid during transit.

mr72

Quote from: qcbaker on October 11, 2016, 11:15:30 AM
Why would they ship a fuel tank with fuel in it? ??? I would've been worried about the fuel leaking out in some way and soaking the package (and probably other packages) in an extremely flammable liquid during transit.

No kidding. I was shocked. I assume it's fuel in it, there's some liquid in it and I haven't taken the looped hose off of the tank petcock yet to see just what liquid is in there. Oh yeah, and they included a tank petcock and a filler cap but no key.

It's certainly against the policy of UPS/FedEx/USPS to ship something like this with residual fuel in it, and it's extremely dangerous. Anyway, I'm glad it got here without starting a fire or blowing anything up.

mr72

The shop made progress on fixing the bike yesterday but it's still got an issue they have to work out, so I am going to start prepping the tank for paint.

I got the fuel cap off by drilling the lock. I was never able to really get ALL of the fuel out of the tank, how do you drain these things? I just let it sit open in hopes it will evaporate enough for me to go on with cleaning the inside of the tank today and start paint prep.


qcbaker

Quote from: mr72 on October 12, 2016, 05:44:49 AM
The shop made progress on fixing the bike yesterday but it's still got an issue they have to work out, so I am going to start prepping the tank for paint.

I got the fuel cap off by drilling the lock. I was never able to really get ALL of the fuel out of the tank, how do you drain these things? I just let it sit open in hopes it will evaporate enough for me to go on with cleaning the inside of the tank today and start paint prep.

Gasoline evaporates pretty fast when left out in the open, so if there isn't much left in there, leave it open in a well ventilated area for a few hours and see what its state is.

RE: drilling the lock: does the gas cap still close properly? Like, you can open and close it with your key now? The reason I ask is because I will be receiving a seat lock in the next day or two, and I will most likely have to do something similar to get it to function properly when affixed to my bike. I don't really care if the lock is "secure" (only opens with my key), I just want my key to open it. The seat lock is wafer lock, so I know I can most likely rekey it by disassembling the lock, but if I cant figure out a way to properly disassemble it, I will most likely attempt to drill it out if I can know that the lock will still work to some degree.

mr72

Mechanic called today and then I went in later to the shop to take a look. The primary problem is the intake valves do not even come close to sealing, so compression is low (120/80) and the bike can't run right when it's warmed up. So the shop is going to rebuild the top end for me. When I get it back it should have new rings, honed cylinders, cleaned-up head and valves, cleaned/professionally-set carbs, new intake boots, you name it. The shop seems quite confident this will not only fix it right but make it good for another 20K miles with no additional work needed. Let's hope they are right!

I plan to pick up the plastics and fender from the shop and paint them along with the tank while the bike is in pieces. I figure once they get it done I can ride home with no fender or side plastics and reassemble it myself when it's home along with the new tank.


mr72

Quote from: qcbaker on October 12, 2016, 12:03:04 PM
Gasoline evaporates pretty fast when left out in the open, so if there isn't much left in there, leave it open in a well ventilated area for a few hours and see what its state is.

That's what I'm doing now.

Quote
RE: drilling the lock: does the gas cap still close properly? Like, you can open and close it with your key now?

No. It MIGHT be possible to swap out the lock cylinder and parts completely with one from a different fuel filler. But the lock itself is completely gone. I drilled a 1/2" hole straight through it. That's most of the lock.

Now, I wouldn't mind a non-locking seat "latch" to replace my seat lock. But maybe when I no longer have to take the seat off constantly to repair the thing I won't mind the lock so much.

Anyway, that doesn't help with your problem, I know. I think you destroy the lock cylinder when you drill it, and once destroyed, there is nothing to actuate the latch because that's done by rotation of the lock cylinder, at least on the tank lock. For the seat, who knows, but probably the same. You should just rekey it. IMHO :)


qcbaker

Quote from: mr72 on October 12, 2016, 12:10:52 PM
Quote from: qcbaker on October 12, 2016, 12:03:04 PM
Gasoline evaporates pretty fast when left out in the open, so if there isn't much left in there, leave it open in a well ventilated area for a few hours and see what its state is.

That's what I'm doing now.

Quote
RE: drilling the lock: does the gas cap still close properly? Like, you can open and close it with your key now?

No. It MIGHT be possible to swap out the lock cylinder and parts completely with one from a different fuel filler. But the lock itself is completely gone. I drilled a 1/2" hole straight through it. That's most of the lock.

Now, I wouldn't mind a non-locking seat "latch" to replace my seat lock. But maybe when I no longer have to take the seat off constantly to repair the thing I won't mind the lock so much.

Anyway, that doesn't help with your problem, I know. I think you destroy the lock cylinder when you drill it, and once destroyed, there is nothing to actuate the latch because that's done by rotation of the lock cylinder, at least on the tank lock. For the seat, who knows, but probably the same. You should just rekey it. IMHO :)

With a regular pin/tumbler lock, if you use a thin drill bit and you're very careful and patient, you can basically just destroy the lower pins inside the cylinder and then the cylinder will basically rotate freely, but still actuate the lock. Usually you just use a flathead screwdriver to open the lock after you drill the pins. I've done it with simple doorknob locks before, but I have no experience drilling a lock with pins on both sides, or one with that piece of metal that blocks the keyhole when nothing else is in it.

Anyway, I plan on at least attempting to rekey the lock before resorting to any other methods. The last seat lock I had (came with a fairing set I had to return, which is why i no longer have it), I could get it to open simply by raking the key in and out while trying to turn the key. So, if I can do that with this new one, I probably wont end up drilling anyway. If I can open the lock just by basically jiggling the key, I can live with that. I don't take my seat off too often anyway.

mr72

This morning I prepped the tank for paint.

There were a couple of chips here and there (not dents!) and I sanded them out, you can see the spots where the original color (black) or the primer (gray) shows through. In one or two spots I sanded to bare metal.







I'll go pick up the side plastics and fender from the shop tomorrow, and plan to do my paint over the weekend.

I have decided to use rattle-can paint, even though I have a pro spray rig and could use ordinary catalyzed automotive paint. It's just so much of a pain to build the temporary booth in the garage and dial in the gun for the paint, plus I have to get the paint mixed and that's a big pain and it's like 4x the cost. So I think I'm going to stick with rattle cans. It's a small job, should work out ok.

I have tried a dozen different types of rattle can paints over the years refinishing guitars and other things, but I think I am going to try a new one this time. Rustoleum has an acrylic enamel they call "Automotive" that looks promising. I'm still almost undecided on color. I really like the red that's on the bike now, and I have white tank decals (just "SUZUKI") that I think will look great with red in sort of a Ducati way. But I have a half a mind to go with orange:



My concerns are what the white tank decal will look like on orange, is that too "creamcicle"? Is the orange too high-profile? Also since I have a high-vis helmet, would that look way too "day glo" alongside the orange bike?

I'm kind of thinking orange may be just too much of a mood thing and the red will be a more classic, timeless color that I'll be happy with for the long term. And since I'm dumping about twice as much money into this bike as I originally planned, I think I'm going to be in it for the long term. Plus, red will be way easier to sell if it comes to it.



I'm also going to grab a can of high-temp silver (also Rustoleum) to paint the header and I'll likely use the same paint on the fork brace. With any luck I'll get all of this painting done this weekend.

When I get the bike back from the shop they promise it will run better than new. If I get my paint work done then it'll also look better than new.

mr72

No pictures yet, maybe later today, certainly tomorrow as I paint.

I decided on the Rustoleum "2X" acrylic enamel in "gloss cherry red":


The tank is prepped, primed and ready for final cleaning, tack cloth and paint. I finished removing decals and prepping the plastics this morning, they were drying when I left for the office. This afternoon, if the rain passes, I'll spray primer on the plastics and then finish prepping them with red scotchbrite to smooth and then in the morning Saturday I'll do final cleaning and tack, and paint.

The paint instructions says "recoat within 5 minutes or after one week" which means I can get 6 coats on each part in half an hour. I'll do the parts in stages. Start with the tail plastic so I can get the hang of this paint before moving on to bigger parts, then do the side plastics and then finally the tank.

mr72

#11
OK, so I lied. Or I changed my mind.

I originally was planning to use this color:


But I could only find one can of it, and even though it boasts "2x" I just didn't think that was enough. So I ended up instead buying the more traditional "red" from Autozone:


I painted with the "red" and got a ton of orange peel, but no bother, I was going to block it and cut it anyway so I did that and the sides turned out beautiful, and I haven't even done the final buffing yet. On the tank, however, I burned through the finish when compounding it. Grr. I was out of the "red" and just had the "gloss cherry red" and I secretly thought these were likely the same paint, just relabeled for Walmart to allow them to sell it way cheaper than the auto parts stores. So I touched up with "cherry red" and then blended and blocked it, began to cut it with rubbing compound, and eventually discovered some things.

#1, these are not the same color. Close, but not exact. The "cherry red" is a touch more orange than the "red". It's enough off that I can't go with the touch-up spot as is so I'm going to have to repaint one way or the other.

#2, I like the more orange "cherry red" color better.

#3, the "2x" paint (cherry red) is better paint. It laid down far more smoothly and had virtually no orange peel compared with the traditional RO acrylic enamel. And it was ready to buff after just about 4 hours compared with the other that took 24 hours to get hard enough to buff.

So, I have decided to scuff the "red" and repaint the whole thing in "cherry red". I actually don't think it will take that many coats since the cherry lays down way better and I might be able to get away with just about three coats without having to have a ton of buildup to sand out orange peel. We'll have to see once it's on. I ordered a 2nd can of the paint (again, from Walmart!) just in case I run out and need more to finish the job. Also, since I'll have to eventually paint the fender, I need more paint.

BTW I think my orange peel problem is because I was trusting Rustoleum's directions and going with multiple "light coats." I have done dozens of rattle-can finish jobs with various paints mostly on guitars and never had orange peel this bad, but I remember I was making a deliberate effort to keep the coats light since last time I did Rustoleum rattle-can job (on a Jerry can) I got runs, and I think RO tells you to use light coats to avoid runs. But I think if I can lay down heavier coats it will take fewer coats to cover and also not get nearly as much orange peel. I really do think the peel is due to too-light coats. About to find out.

If the entire tank and sides come out nearly as good as that one spot of touch up where I did cherry red, then this thing is going to be gorgeous when it's done.

In other news, my shorty levers came in, and they look great. I got gray anodized with black adjusters. I am pretty stoked about that, I'll probably put them on the bike before I ride it away from the shop when it gets done.

The engine work is supposed to be done late this week and so I have a few days to get the sides repainted then I'll go pick up the bike, put the sides on while it's still there at the shop along with the shorty levers, then I will embark on a rings-break-in ride straight out of the shop, 20 miles of "don't baby it". The weather is supposed to turn cooler for the end of the week which is great news in Central TX October... It was 91 yesterday but Thursday and Friday forecast highs are in the low 70s... perfect bike-with-a-jacket weather!

qcbaker

I also got shorty levers for my bike, but I'm still waiting on them to ship in from Hong Kong lol. Mine are blue though, to match the rest of the bike.

Anyway, nice to see you're making progress with everything.  :thumb:

In case you care at all: I had a locksmith just make me a separate key for the seat lock. That, plus a copy, and a copy of my ignition key to have a full spare set was only like 40 bucks. Much more cost effective than drilling the lock out lol.

mr72

The PO got a new lock set including an ignition switch, tank lid/lock and seat lock all keyed alike. The seat lock is on the bike, I have the tank lid (but it's non-awesome quality) and the new ignition switch that has not even been removed from the protective plastic. Eventually I plan to put the lock cylinder from the tank lock into the '07 fuel filler that I drilled, and then swap in the new ignition switch so everything will be keyed alike.

For the time being my seat lock is keyed differently than the ignition and tank. It's pretty low on the priority list to "fix" this. The kicker is if I can easily get the ignition switch/lock assy off, so if I can access it while the headlight is off to paint the bucket or maybe if I pull the triple to paint it, then I'll see if I can get that lock off. Those stupid break-off bolts are a pretty big annoyance.

mr72

#14
Scuffed and repainted the tank and side plastics this morning. The new "2x" cherry red paint laid down way smoother. I might not even have to block out any orange peel... I mean, I don't mind a little orange peel in the final finish, just not extreme. If it's pretty smooth, like a new car finish, I'll take it and just buff with Meguiars Gold Class and call it done.

I think the reduce orange peel is a combination of more solids in the "2x" coverage paint and my willingness to spray heavier coats. The one can of 2x lasted for two solid 100% coverage coats on everything. Unfortunately another can of the paint is not to be had in North Austin anywhere so I ordered it through Walmart and it won't be here until this time next week. So if this much paint is not enough, then I'll be adding coats next week. In for a dime, in for a dollar.

sides, way less orange peel... it's still wet but if it dries like this, no blocking will be required.


tank, new color has way less orange peel. If it dries like this it might still require a little bit of blocking but not much and only 1500 grit or 2000. Then buff and be done.


Since there are two 100% coverage coats on there then as long as I don't have to get serious about blocking and compounding to get rid of peel then this should be more than enough paint and maybe I'm done painting.

Before mounting the tank I am going to re-clean the inside with Simple Green + lots of water and then try and drain it with a hand pump with the tank hanging like it is to paint so all of the liquid goes down to the "nose" of the tank, then drop a sponge in there on the end of a string and see if I can coax out the last little bits of water. Then let it hang like that in the sun for a couple of days until it's dry, dry, dry. I also need to re-shape the nose of the "E" seat (chop it down, redo the upholstery) to get it to mate up right with the "F" tank, and make up some brackets to mount the side plastics since the F tank doesn't have them. No biggie but that will be at least a week from now before that gets done. I have to have the bike back for that.

With any luck I don't have to apply any more paint to these parts.

It hurt a little bit inside for me to take a scotch brite pad to those very nicely buffed side plastics but I am glad I did it, the "cherry red" color is better. Once the sun comes out it'll really pop even more. That's a really good color.

Man, the frame, wheels, engine and everything else is going to look awfully dingy after this!

mr72

This morning I went out and blocked out the very tiny amount of orange peel on the tank and sides. Just took half an hour to do it all. I went through a light touch with 1000 grit to knock down the bulk of the orange peel, a cursory but complete sanding with 1500 grit just to dull the 1000-grit scratches, and followed with 3000-grit 3M trizact, this time a meaningful and more deliberate and complete pre-polishing job. The finish is now uniformly matte with very little orange peel. This evening I'll hand-buff with Meguiars Gold Class. Should turn out close to perfect.

mr72

The shop called, said I have slightly bent intake valves, so they have to order new ones and wait for them to come in. That's another week of delay until I get the bike back. :(

Well, that's frustrating but not so horrible since I also managed to chip the brand new gorgeous paint on my new tank and the new paint I need to touch it up doesn't arrive until next week anyway.

Next week the weather will be perfect, but no riding until probably Friday. I have to keep reminding myself that this is Central TX, the weather will be perfect for riding from now until about June. Three weeks in the shop still feels like a pretty long time.

sledge

Bent valves?

How come they only just found this?

It doesn't inspire confidence in their practices.

If I were you I would be calling them up and saying "what are the seats like?".  Otherwise next week you might well be getting another call, something along the lines off.....

"Errrr.....sorry but we have just found another problem. Because the valves are bent the seats have worn so much we cant lap them in, they need to be replaced and recut, its going to take another week and cost another 150".

...and get them to check the spring lengths!

mr72

#18
The mechanic found the issue while lapping the valves. The seats are already finished as well as the exhaust valves. They are only now finding it because they were only working on it yesterday since it was on parts hold until all of the parts came in, which they did Weds.

Fortunately everything else is done... rings, bores, cylinder gasket, etc. Just waiting on the intake valves to get the thing finished.

sledge

Oh ok  :thumb:

So you have had new seats too? Wise move.

But wouldn't it have made sense to check the valves for run out before ordering any parts, particularly if they knew over a week ago there was an issue with sealing?

If they had taken this approach you wouldn't have had to wait an extra week and (probably) pay another delivery charge......right?

On the basis they have only just found it it obviously seems the possibility of a bent valve didn't occur to them when they made and gave you the initial diagnosis back on the 12th, either that or they just assumed they were all ok

.......It all kinda begs the question.......what else are they overlooking or assuming is ok :dunno_black:



SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk