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Downsizing. Talk me into (or out of) doing it...

Started by Watcher, March 15, 2017, 03:33:14 PM

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mr72

Quote from: Watcher on March 16, 2017, 07:51:43 PM
I'm more and more interested in the possibilities here.  Since I'm more or less out of work at the moment I might just try to sell the Buell and pick up something else locally.  Seems to be a few good deals around.
Maybe I could end up making money in the process.

You could sell the Buell now(ish) while they are still easy to sell, buy yourself a GS500 for cheap that will suffice for transportation while you settle on what you want for the long term, then flip the GS later on and likely get every penny back out of it.

qcbaker

Quote from: Watcher on March 16, 2017, 02:15:29 PM
...
I'm thinking of going a little more aggressive.  I could always put drag bars on the Duke, but I'm thinking more RC390.
The only thing really keeping me from going all in on one is the full clip-ons.  I've never ridden a proper sportbike for longer than a half hour, I don't know how my body will handle a full tuck for an extended period.

If you want to go full "Street Rossi" and drag knees in the the twisties, you need a bike that has you close to true sportbike positioning. But, if you don't think that will be comfortable long term, maybe you really do need two bikes to truly get what you want :dunno_black:.

I still think an RC390 (with maybe upgraded cooling) would get you riding the way you want.

Watcher

#22
Quote from: mr72 on March 17, 2017, 06:34:25 AM
Quote from: Watcher on March 16, 2017, 02:15:29 PM
I did experience first hand one downside of the RC.  They run hot, and factory coolant caps are NOT rated properly, so they like to overflow coolant.

May not be the radiator cap is the only problem. In AZ you are going to be taxing any marginal cooling system tremendously. You are right that higher capacity radiator is probably the ticket. Then getting the coolant chemistry exactly right will probably help a lot. Miatas are notoriously poor at cooling from the factory, "adequate" provided everything is in perfect condition, but to cope with TX summers with the AC on and rush hour traffic jams I eventually upgraded to an aluminum 5-core racing radiator and ran 80% distilled water with the balance P-HOAT and half a bottle of Redline Water Wetter. I owned two water-cooled VWs and they were simply inadequate cooling systems for TX. I'm not convinced the Germans (or Austrians in KTM's case) understand the kind of heat we have in the American southwest.

  The radiator needs a definite upgrade from factory, or you need to mod the fan to stay on, in the Arizona heat that may be a concern.

So here's a thing, I talked to him again about that.  He said a few things of interest.  Apparently the biggest problem wasn't that the cap is improper, it was the fact his bike was overfilled.  He checked it according to the manual and even after spilling over it was a little high.  Hasn't had it happen again since.

He said the coolant cap thing was the "hot fix" that everyone on forums was doing.  So it's not necessarily that the cap is the issue, just people do that to prevent the system spilling over while they work to diagnose the real issue.
I had suggested he look into modding the fan and see if he can just switch it on manually.  IDK if there is a way to make it so the fan runs on schedule until you flip the switch, that way he could leave it off for out in the country and switch it on specifically for traffic in town.

From my own research I did find that it seems the 2015 KTMs specifically had an inadequate fan schedule, and furthermore the OE fan just doesn't seem up to par because it's one of the Bajaj parts on an otherwise mostly Austrian bike.  The #1 mod is upgrading the fan, and along with an ECU update from KTM to increase the frequency of fan activation they are good to go.

A good mix of coolant would be a step in the right direction as well.  We barely get to freezing at night in the winter.
Is there a disadvantage to running straight water?


Quote from: mr72 on March 17, 2017, 06:34:25 AM
Quote from: Watcher on March 16, 2017, 02:15:29 PM
The Duke is cool, but it's essentially just a smaller version of what I already have, but I'm thinking of going a little more aggressive.  I could always put drag bars on the Duke, but I'm thinking more RC390.

Fair enough. I am not into the sport bike looks at all. But the Duke looks ridiculous anyway. If they made that bike with aesthetics more akin to a Ducati Monster, SV650 or even my beloved GS500E then I'd be tempted.

Honestly?  I'm not into the whole full-fairing sport bike look either...
Ordinarily...

I see an R6 or a CBR1000RR and I'm like "Meh... Doesn't do it for me."  Even despite wanting an R3 or Ninja300 I am not super thrilled about the fairing, but I get the reasons, and won't let it stop me because I know I'm after the performance, not the looks.

That being said, I think the RC looks incredible!  I like the aggressive angles, I like the full belly-pan covering the underslung exhaust with the little outlet for the muffler tip, and I like that the side fairings don't really cover up that much, they end pretty short.  You still see a TON of that orange trellis frame and can identify much of the engine on either side.  Looking at a stripped RC it's pretty apparent that the fairings don't really cover up much at all.  As far as full fairings go, it seems more "function over form", a little more minimalist, and at the same time looks likes something the US Air Force would come up with.

It may be the bike that breaks me of fairings.



And regarding part availability, they happen to be opening up a KTM dealer nearby in the next month or two.  I should have no trouble getting parts and service.
"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

-Neil Peart

qcbaker

You could always do a streetfighter style conversion for any fully-faired sportbike. You'd retain the sport positioning and bike performance, but get a naked look.

mr72

We wound up at the dealer yesterday and they had a used KTM Duke 390. I sat on it just to get an idea of the feel. Bike definitely feels light but it's just too small. Halfway between a GS500 and a GROM. I guess it would be great if you are under about 5'7" but I'm just shy of 6ft with long arms and legs and it would simply be too small for me to ride.

They also had a used ducati scrambler that was hard to walk away from. Went home and went for a ride and confirmed I still dig the GS500 as much as any new bike.

Watcher

Here's a deal that's hard to walk away from, and it's in an entirely different direction.

A 2000 Ducati Monster 750.  With 3800 original miles.  Trade straight across for the Buell.




It's not the best deal monetarily.  KBB on my Buell is just over $4k but the market kills it.  It's a total niche bike from a company that's out of business and they typically sell around $3k depending on condition.  Keep in mind I bought mine for $3k with newer tires, and now that I'm trying to sell it it has bald tires.  Yes, there's a Corbin seat and some other nice things I added, but it's still around $3k worth of bike.

The Ducati KBB is like $2500, and they do market at KBB, but considering this one is near mint I could see it being around $3k.


Guy lives about 5-6 hours north of me, said he'd be trailering it down to make the trade.  I'm like 90% gonna go for it.  Only think holding me back is in the back of my mind I know the Buell is worth more.
But multiple people have told me, and I agree, that because Ducati is still in business parts won't be hard to find, and because it's a DUCATI even if it's worth less I'll be able to sell it in a heartbeat in case I just decide I hate it...

So I think I'm gonna go for it.
"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

-Neil Peart

qcbaker

I thought you wanted a lightweight sportbike? Lol, definitely a step in a different direction.

Anyway, the Monster is a very cool bike. If its really what you want, go for it.

Only concern: No idea if the maintenance schedule is the same for the Monster as it is for Ducati's sportbikes (timing belt change every 2 years or 12K, valve checks [where you need to remove the timing belt] every 6K, etc), but I would be concerned about maintenance since you ride so much. Ducati shop rates are INSANE. If you do everything yourself, you mitigate some financial burden, but it is a PITA to have to wrench on your bike so much.

rscottlow

Quote from: qcbaker on April 05, 2017, 09:58:41 AM
I thought you wanted a lightweight sportbike? Lol, definitely a step in a different direction.

Anyway, the Monster is a very cool bike. If its really what you want, go for it.

Only concern: No idea if the maintenance schedule is the same for the Monster as it is for Ducati's sportbikes (timing belt change every 2 years or 12K, valve checks [where you need to remove the timing belt] every 6K, etc), but I would be concerned about maintenance since you ride so much. Ducati shop rates are INSANE. If you do everything yourself, you mitigate some financial burden, but it is a PITA to have to wrench on your bike so much.

On a positive note, based on the look of the guy's garage, he takes care of his stuff. So at least you can feel pretty good about the maintenance history.
Scott - Cincinnati, Ohio
2009 GS500F

qcbaker

Quote from: rscottlow on April 05, 2017, 10:32:16 AM
On a positive note, based on the look of the guy's garage, he takes care of his stuff. So at least you can feel pretty good about the maintenance history.

That is true. I didn't mean to come off so negative lol.

Watcher

#29
Well, it's kinda SV650 territory, which was one of the bikes on my list, lol.  I was interested in generally downsizing, but was really curious about going WAY down.
It's no R3, but regardless I wanted something small-mid displacement that was sporty.  A GS500 was on my list, too.

Yeah, I probably won't be tracking the Duc either, but considering the cost of a track suit and all that it probably won't happen soon anyway.
I still want a small sport bike, but I think it would be good in addition to a typical commuter.


But yeah, it's a valve check at 6k, belt at 12k.  But the GS's valve check interval is just as bad, and valves do "settle in" so over time you can stretch it.
I'd be doing the work all myself, I already looked up videos of those two procedures and it's simple enough to do with basic tools.
"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

-Neil Peart

qcbaker

The bike is extremely low miles, clean as hell, and the Monster is a damn cool bike. If you're confident in your ability to keep up with the maintenance, then it seems like a good buy. Especially for you, since I know you'll actually RIDE the damn thing lol. I mean, its a 17 year old bike with only 3800 miles on it. Barely ever ridden, man.

Seems to me, tons of Ducati owners care more about OWNING a Ducati than actually riding one (I have a similar issue with Harley guys...). Maybe it has somehting to do with Ducati service pricing...


Watcher

Already got in touch with a guy on another forum who supposedly has over 250k miles on his 1993 M900  :icon_eek:

If that isn't a testament to reliability I don't know what is.

He gave me a lot of good recommendations and advice.  Said that he started doing valve checks once a year (15-20k) after getting to 40k because he noticed they had settled in and barely changed anymore.
Said he can get 20-30k off a belt so he does that once a year, and he gets ~50k off a set of clutch plates but that's highly dependant on how abusive of a rider you are.

Bearings and brakes and such around 50k, piston rings and other engine stuff around 100k, and he mentioned forks, carbs, master cylinders, calipers, etc closer to around 200k.

That ain't bad at all.
"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

-Neil Peart

ShowBizWolf

Good luck with whatever you choose to do Watcher! I'm excited for you and have really been enjoying this thread!!!
Superbike bars, '04 GSXR headlight & cowl, DRZ signals, 1/2" fork brace, 'Busa fender, stainless exhaust & brake lines, belly pan, LED dash & brake bulbs, 140/80 rear hoop, F tail lens, SV650 shock, Bandit400 hugger, aluminum heel guards & pegs, fork preload adjusters, .75 SonicSprings, heated grips

rscottlow

I think it sounds awesome. There's nothing much cooler than riding a Ducati 😎




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Scott - Cincinnati, Ohio
2009 GS500F

Watcher

#34
I made sure to get a video of a cold start, fires right up.

I sent him better Buell photos, he sent me back better photos of the Ducky.  DAMN it's in good shape!   :o
I mean, I expected good from a bike with under 4000 miles, but I didn't expect what he sent me.  The thing could be eaten off of, it's showroom quality.

I jumped on it.  Said yes, yes, yes, we're doing it, money be damned I don't care if it's a deal technically in his favor, I want that Ducky.

Hopefully this weekend.





"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

-Neil Peart

qcbaker

Quote from: Watcher on April 05, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
Already got in touch with a guy on another forum who supposedly has over 250k miles on his 1993 M900  :icon_eek:

If that isn't a testament to reliability I don't know what is.
...

Now THAT is a lot of riding lol. And yeah, pretty much any bike can be reliable if you keep up with the maintenance.

Quote from: Watcher on April 05, 2017, 09:24:45 PM
I made sure to get a video of a cold start, fires right up.

Always a smart thing to do.

Quote
I sent him better Buell photos, he sent me back better photos of the Ducky.  DAMN it's in good shape!   :o
I mean, I expected good from a bike with under 4000 miles, but I didn't expect what he sent me.  The thing could be eaten off of, it's showroom quality.

I jumped on it.  Said yes, yes, yes, we're doing it, money be damned I don't care if it's a deal technically in his favor, I want that Ducky.

Hopefully this weekend.

*pictures*

Its funny that you keep calling it the Ducky and it's yellow... Your bike's nickname HAS to be "The Rubber Ducky".

mr72

I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat. I'm often tempted to just buy a M750 straight up. I could probably buy one with low miles like this (man if it's really only $3K ...) and sell my GS for nearly enough to cover the cost. Too much more of this and I'll talk myself into a 20-year-old Ducati.

Watcher

#37
Quote from: qcbaker on April 06, 2017, 05:41:51 AM
Its funny that you keep calling it the Ducky and it's yellow... Your bike's nickname HAS to be "The Rubber Ducky".

Well, the common nickname for a Ducati is a Duck.  This one is yellow.  I couldn't resist!


Quote from: mr72 on April 06, 2017, 08:07:40 AM
I'm often tempted to just buy a M750 straight up. I could probably buy one with low miles like this (man if it's really only $3K ...) and sell my GS for nearly enough to cover the cost. Too much more of this and I'll talk myself into a 20-year-old Ducati.

Dude, I was totally surprised to learn that these older monsters KBB under $3k.  There are two late 90s-early2000s 750 "Dark" monsters on Craigslist in my area for around $2500 right now.

The challenge is with the valve check schedule and timing belt can you find one you can trust?
I guess if it runs well and the belts look fine you should be ok.  The rest is exterior condition.

Hell, if it's a cool bike maybe I'll pick up a second cheap one to turn into a tracker.  Take the turn signals off to save weight, put one foldable mirror on it, frame sliders, clip-ons, rejet, etc.
Looks easy enough to run GP shift on, just flip the clamp on the shift shaft.
"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

-Neil Peart

mr72

Quote from: Watcher on April 06, 2017, 10:07:48 AM
Dude, I was totally surprised to learn that these older monsters KBB under $3k.  There are two late 90s-early2000s 750 "Dark" monsters on Craigslist in my area for around $2500 right now.

KBB or not, that is not near the market in my area.

For example:

https://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/6029718240.html

yeah, 35K miles, mods, a 600cc (which really is comparable with a GS500 for power), and $3K.

In fact a search for my local CL for Ducati and max $3K turned up only that bike and a non-running "SSi" whatever that is, for $1K.

I did see a "Dark" M600 for like $2K in College Station right about the time I bought my GS but figured the GS was probably way more reliable. And I did only pay $900 for my GS. But now after all of the work I am sure I could get >$2K for my GS if I sold it and it might be tempting to do so if I thought I could get a Monster 750 for only $500 more.


Watcher

#39
https://tucson.craigslist.org/mcy/6060481315.html

Just for the sake of comparison.


One thing to consider is ALL motorcycles seem to be inflated this time of year since it's the start of "riding season".

I don't know how Austin is but Tucson is basically year round riding weather so the market seems pretty stable.

You're only 13 hours away, rent a trailer for $30, you can crash on my couch for a night, and head back with a Dark Duck in tow!
Though...  With gas and time spent you're probably better off just spending the extra $500 on that one in town...
"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

-Neil Peart

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