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Valve shim size really small?

Started by nuclearfenix, December 14, 2017, 01:11:21 PM

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nuclearfenix

So I took my bike into the shop a couple months ago for a valve check because the bike was running rough. The completed it and told me one of the shims had to go down in size by a lot. I took the bike and rode off. About a month later while I'm riding I accelerate and her this loud clacking sound. I pull over and turn the bike off, I don't see anything but when I go to turn the bike back on it wont start.

I push the bike a couple miles back somewhere safe and get a friend to take the bike back to the same shop. I tell them what happened and that I think it's something they had done, they said they'll check it out. They Call me back and let me know ( I can't remember what it was at this point but I believe it was the shim) that the shim disintegrated and they're not sure what happened as they only buy OEM for liability reasons. They said they were going to check everything make sure there was nothing in the oil and repair everything out of their own pocket.

Now this happened on the 31st of November and I still don't have my bike. They have all the parts but their concern is that they shim they want to put in is too small, they said it was 2 sizes up from the smallest and the shop owner has to check with someone who is familiar with Suzuki's before he does anything. That was about 5 days ago.

Would the smaller shim sizes be a huge deal? What could have caused all of this?

gregjet

Shim size getting too small is usual as the valve seat wears and sits furthur into the head.
That said it can also be from valves streatching or the collets/valve land wearing. If it is so small that shims aren't made that small,I reckon there is a good chance the head needs to come off and check everything

nuclearfenix

#2
Ok, like I said they're paying for everything because I payed for it to be fixed the first time around and it wasn't. Hopefully I see my bike again some time this year.

Actually I just realized you said the head needs to come off. If it is too small could there be irreparable damage?

J_Walker

irreparable damage...

no, not really, just pull the head off and swap it out with another one from a good bike. it's actually really EZ if you have a whole shops worth of tools to do it with! yeah they'd have to buy another head, but a quick Ebay glance like 125ish dollars.
-Walker

The Buddha

A couple yrs ago there was rash of broken shims and destroyed motors.
The shim breaking will splatter the innards of the motor with shards of steel. This crap will destroy your motor, it has destroyed a few.
Your best bet is to get them to put n a used but known good motor and not allow them to hack together some sheiete and get rid of you and then blame you when the crap dies again.

There was a warning post too about sheite shims blowing up motors on here.

Cool.
Buddha.
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nuclearfenix

Thanks for the replies guys. I totally trust the guys, and I don't think they would do anything shady. That being said, they had already bought a new motor for the bike (well used with 2k miles on it) to replace my current motor. They weren't charging me anything for the work originally. Now he won't charge for the labor or any of the new parts as long as I pay for the motor, which is a good deal to me.

The Buddha

WTF ??? they destroyed your motor. They want you to pay for the motor ???
Man I'm in the wrong business.

The company that made the shim eventually paid the few that were blown up under some sort of warranty.

Cool.
Buddha.
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nuclearfenix

Not necessarily, they put the proper shims on during the valve check and they let me know that it was pretty tight. I took the bike anyway. As long as the labor and other parts they replaced on the bike are free, I don't mind paying for the motor. It's not a super expensive motor either.

The Buddha

Quote from: nuclearfenix on December 19, 2017, 03:39:50 PM
Not necessarily, they put the proper shims on during the valve check and they let me know that it was pretty tight. I took the bike anyway. As long as the labor and other parts they replaced on the bike are free, I don't mind paying for the motor. It's not a super expensive motor either.

A shim breaking has nothing to do with it being tight. Shim breaking has been a recent phenomenon with shitty shims being sold by some major outfits.
Those people warrantied the shim and the damage it caused.

Shim being too tight will cause the motor to have lots of starting and warm up troubles. I used to run these things tight as duck and never had a problem. A shim should never break. Its a hunk of metal specifically hardened to not wear and not bend/break when a cam pushes on it. Its other surface is flat and oil knurled, so its always sitting on a thin film of oil.
It should never break unless you chucked it in a vice and hit it with a hammer.

Cool.
Buddha.
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J_Walker

Quote from: The Buddha on December 20, 2017, 07:06:44 AM


Shim breaking has been a recent phenomenon with shitty shims being sold by some major outfits.
Those people warrantied the shim and the damage it caused.


Cool.
Buddha.

Did that ever get resolved? Never knew it did.
-Walker

The Buddha

My neighbor (sort of, just 10 miles) Andy had this happen, and he replaced the head etc and ran it only to have it lose the bottom end. Eventually the dealer he bought the shim from got K&L supply house to make a warranty payment on it. He got ~1100 if I recall.
The end result was that - eventually it got warrantied, but that was when the shims were in the fresh new stage form the chinese factory and in the K&L supply's cross hairs.
now 5 yrs on, who knows. In any case you need to keep your foot on the neck of the dealer to make good on the damn thing, they will take any chance they get to flake off and screw you, just cos it likely involves a ton of paperwork along with several million hours on the phone and computer I bet. You don't keep your foot on their neck, they will flake out and screw you.

I am so sick of it, but I also am glad I'm running an old set of shims in the GS, due for a change but I'd rather run it a bit loose so I'm not too screwed for now.

All this over a $5 shim. idiots cant make it out of proper steel, they had to use a cast crap material.

Cool.
Buddha.
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ajensen

I bought my gs used. How do I know if I have Suzuki shims or  something else?

The Buddha

Quote from: ajensen on December 20, 2017, 05:48:16 PM
I bought my gs used. How do I know if I have Suzuki shims or  something else?

Usually they never make it past the 500 mile mark after a "new" shim has been put in. Usually 50 miles is their limit before they turn to chit.
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Buddha.
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ajensen

Thanks--I've ridden it for several thousand miles, and the shims are OK.

The Buddha

There were pics on this site about bad shims and how the numbers and markings looked.
Could someone point that out to me as to where it is.
Cool.
Buddha.
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