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shifter prob

Started by mes_423, July 13, 2003, 10:57:50 AM

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mes_423

Problem:
sometimes I ride my bike and get to a fresh red light so I shift into N and when I try to get it into 1st I wont go, no matter how hard I kick it down. this even happens when Im down shifting to a red, it just doesnt like 1st gear.  :x  :x  any suggestions on the problem and how to fix it? I have a 1998 gs500
what comes up must come down

scar_ace

It happens to me as well mate, sign of an abused transmission. When clicking down does it just bounce back up? If so let the clutch out to biting point and you'll hear a clunk from the gear box. Then you will be able to click into gear. Don't actually know what is happening though, anyone else like to enlighten us?
Thanks Simon
1st is first, 2nd is nothing

The Antibody

Well, I would suggest checking your oil level. Thats tied into the gearbox.

 -Anti
Once the President of Coolness, always the President of Coolness.

"Just try not to screw it up!"

mes_423

to respond to the first dude, no it doesnt bounce up, it just sticks into first. I can get into 2nd smoothly but just not into first. Its not a seriuos problem yet but it worries me.  Theres been a few times were I have to start off in 2nd from a complete stop cause the dang thing wont go into 1st.  its really aggravation :x  :x  :x
I would appreciate any advice from anyone thanks
what comes up must come down

rprata

From neutral, try rolling the bike a bit forward, with the clutch in.  and as you're moving, try to engage first.  Works for me.
--
96 GS500
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Black Snowman

Quote from: rprataFrom neutral, try rolling the bike a bit forward, with the clutch in.  and as you're moving, try to engage first.  Works for me.

It's common with sequential transmissions in motorcycles. Sometimes I have to roll as far as a foot to get mine to go in.
Laws don't stop criminals. People do.

chimivee

Yup.  Happens on my bike too.
James

Pkaaso

Quote from: scar_aceIt happens to me as well mate, sign of an abused transmission. When clicking down does it just bounce back up? If so let the clutch out to biting point and you'll hear a clunk from the gear box. Then you will be able to click into gear. Don't actually know what is happening though, anyone else like to enlighten us?
Thanks Simon

My 89' does this too sometimes.  While sitting at a light, it won't go into first.  I do what Scar suggests - Let the clutch out in neutral, pull it back in and it goes right into first every time.  This works for me, may work for you.

I think the problem is, the mesh that needs to occur for the gears to slip together is not there.  Letting the clutch out momentarily moves the gears slightly and lines them up so they will mesh together smoothly.

Now, that's just me thinking out loud.

Paul
I don't want a pickle, I just wanna ride on my motorcycle. - Arlo Guthrie

Rich500

A sequential transmission has things called dogs, that why they are sometimes called a dog box. anyway the dogs are these semicircular, kinda a bent rectangle thing that sticks out of the gear, they click into slots on the flywheel (maybe wrong term) that are a corisponding shape. what is happening is the dogs on your gear, are being sitting in beween the slots, by rolling back or forward, you move the flywheel, and the slots move into poition. its not a serious position, its just luck of the draw when you stop whether or not you land in the grooves, or just beside them.
Hopr that helps to explain it. sometimes i will go 10 stops and have to roll a bit each time, sometimes i will go 10 stops and not have to roll ever. just luck really.  dont downshift into first too often, it really not made for it at higher speeds. i studied it in engineering.
a sequential transmission in your bike is more like a formula 1 gearbox or a ferrari enzo gearbox than something like a 5 speed in a ford focus. a sycromesh transmission in a normal car allows you too skip gears becasue of its shifting mechanism, where as  a sequential obviously doesnt because the gears more or less drop in on top of eachother in(this is extremely simplified) if yah have any other questions about them let me know. I can tell you anything about the mechanical working in so much detail you might wonder if i have a life.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
--Winston Churchill

Rich500

Check this naimation out to get a better idear. you can see the dogs on the right side of the mechanism when the animation spins. Hope this helps yahll understand it. maybe i should do a post explaining the whoole thing. whatcha think?
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/sequential-gearbox-animation.gif
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
--Winston Churchill

Wrencher

Motorcycles have flywheels, but not quite in the same function as cars. MC transmissions have three types of gears, fixed, sliding, freewheeling. The sliding gears have the dogs which hook into the sides of the freewheeling and fixed gears to change which set of gears is transmiting power. Very much as Rich described, except the flywheel is not involved in MC trannys (maybe just a terminology difference though).
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Rich500

Thanks wrencher. I couldnt put my finger on the proper word, so i just used "flywheel" becasue i was too lazy too think it up.
:cheers:
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
--Winston Churchill

mrslush50

try just double clutching.

zoltan

actually, pretty much all modern motorcycles use synchromesh transmissions, and the mechanics behind our bike's sequential transmission and a focus' transmission are identical. both use the elemental design of constant mesh gears, synchros, synchro hubs, dog gears, and shifter forks. the big difference is a focus' shift forks are ultimately connected to a lever (the shifter) which can go into any one of 5 positions from any other position. a bike's transmission has the shift forks connected to essentially a drum which indexes up and down. the bike's shifter will rotate this drum either up or down, that's why you have to go through 4-3-2 if you want to shift from 5th to 1st, because the drum has to rotate through the 4-3-2 positions to get back to the 1st position.

scratch

Quote from: rprataFrom neutral, try rolling the bike a bit forward, with the clutch in.  and as you're moving, try to engage first.  Works for me.

So, everybody else is having this prob, and I thought I had a bent shifter fork...

But, yes, I either wait until the bike is down to idle as I'm rolling to the stoplight to engage 1st gear, or I rev the eng up to 'bout 3k in neut and click it in. And, if neither of those work I wait til I stop and then try to engage it. I've had a footstomping party at one light, and all the cagers were lookin' at me weird... :P
The motorcycle is no longer the hobby, the skill has become the hobby.

Power does not compare to skill.  What good is power without the skill to use it?

QuoteOriginally posted by Wintermute on BayAreaRidersForum.com
good judgement trumps good skills every time.

DrtRydr23

Quote from: Rich500Thanks wrencher. I couldnt put my finger on the proper word, so i just used "flywheel" becasue i was too lazy too think it up.
:cheers:

Hey Rich......nice boobs.

John L.
1997 GS 500E, Black:  Fenderectomy, Superbike bars, progressive springs, Cobra F1R slipon, short stalk turn signals. - SOLD

2008 SV650, Blue, K&N in airbox, otherwise stock

Rich500

I thought youd like me.
Are you sure Zoltan. I think both of us are half right. The truth is somewhere down the middle. Its not quite possible to have the same kinda transmission. Take yous apart, and see for yourself. Its more like my animation link (ours). I have taken apart quite a few gearboxes, and ours arnt like my cars for sure.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
--Winston Churchill

Rich500

I mean my boobs, im just kiddin around. they are nice boobs, if i were a girl those are the ones id want for sure.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
--Winston Churchill

zoltan

quite sure man. if you pulled one of each apart, you'd see that the everything up to the shifter forks works exactly the same. in fact, that animation would work just as well for a focus' 5 speed as it would for a motorcycle's.

it also helps to know the syncrhonizers only work when there's a speed difference between the mainshaft and countershaft of the transmission. this is why letting the clutch out for a second works, it spins up the mainshaft and, provided you shift quickly enough, enables the synchros the work.

the www.howstuffworks.com article on synchros is really good. if you want to get and understanding of how they work, i really recommend it.

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