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Movin' to LA or SD

Started by Mk1inCali, March 21, 2005, 08:29:46 PM

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Mk1inCali

SICK!!!!

That's so much good info!  I'm totally focused back on school now after reading through all you said!  

Thanks again man, I'll PM you when I figure out where in SD I can find a place that I can afford and get your opinion on which JC to go to for next year!
Anthony
                         '00 GS500E + 33K miles
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Kee

My thoughts on the UC system:

Cal has the best engineering program, and therefor the most difficult to get into. Really CS intensive as well, so that is something to look at.  Also going to be next to impossible to get in through the back door, so best to apply into EE from the get go.

Next I would put UCLA. Don't know much about there program though but I believe it is rated highly.

Cal and UCLA are the only ones with real sports programs and a lot to the school experience and school identity.

UC Davis is out in the middle of no where, farm country. Irvine, from what i hear, is a commuter school.  Even though i live in SD now, I don't know much about UCSD but get the impression it is a commuter school.  Great location though.

I would also look at Santa Barbara. Great location and fun place to go to school. Santa Cruz is also in a great location but it seems as though all the hippees that didn't get into Cal go there.

Might also look at Cal Poly SLO. I believe the Cal Poly system is better than the Cal State, and SLO I beleive is the best of them.
I love YOU goes to college.

LEVO

Cal, UCLA, UCSD all excellent choices.  Better have outstanding grades to get into them.  

All quite expensive, about $25K/yr tuition+books+boarding+food+etc....

State universities a little less.  I have one son going to Cal and another to SDSU.  Good luck.  

Have you considered ROTC, they pay your expenses for some time in military.
05 SV650S, 02 GS500 (gone)

conflicttheorist

Quote from: Kee

Might also look at Cal Poly SLO. I believe the Cal Poly system is better than the Cal State, and SLO I beleive is the best of them.

Cal Poly SLO and Pomona are both CSU's.  For some reason SLO enjoys a great reputation in the Valley, I think it is because it is almost vocational and because of their emphasis on Ag.  Yet, I thank god I didn't go there because noone else in the nation has heard of it and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have taken me at uchicago (they don't even take CSU students anymore, I think).  Cal poly SLO's regional reputation is supported by US news and world report's ranking it as one of the best in Regional Schools in it's region (cali area or something).  That, however, is sort of like saying I'm the fastest in the 90+ age range (the record time is like 29 seconds in the 100 meter).  San Diego State has a great reputation in San Diego, but is 4th tier on the list of National Universities because it has a national reputation.  Now, I know that SLO's engineering program is difficult to get into and competitive but as far as I know it isn't for EE but instead for the more vocational types of engineering (that is a gawd awful engineering building BTW).  
Now, I know some may disagree, but I believe it is better to go to a highly regarded school with a strong national reputation than to go to a local school even if they are supposed to be good for that one program.  Fresno State certainly has a much better Social Work Program than Harvard, but you'd be limiting your chances of going to grad school or teaching or moving to another city or state if you chose Fresno over Harvard.  Likewise, UC Santa Cruz may be a place for Berkeley rejects but you would get a job almost anywhere in the world over someone who went to Cal Poly with the same degree.  Why?  Name recognition is worth a lot (this is why harvard scores more points than Yale-so many movies are made about it).  I actually think of it as a prestige factor- Firms want to let people know that they are elite and getting a job cadidate with a pedigree from a prestigious school is how they do that.  CSU's are simply too middle class, hum drum, blue collar, even if they actually train you better.
Before you get too offended by this- I don't like it either.  I am just explaining the attitudes I encountered in my more than a hundred interviews with the top firms in the country.  I went into them proud of the fact that I worked my way through junior college and graduated at the top of the class at SDSU, to finally graduate at one of the top law schools in the nation.  Nonetheless, the world is run by the elite and, for the most part, the cost of entry into this group includes getting a Degree from a prestigous private university or a UC (or an equally prestigious state university like UT austin).  
It will also require neglecting to tell them that you went to junior college (don't earn an AA, so that you won't have to list it as a degree) and mopped floors to pay for it.  Your resume should gleam with internships and have an undergraduate degree from a university that says that you, too, are elite.  Remember, on your resume you write the name of the college first and your degree second and that is exactly how people are going to judge you.  
The name of the school is what opens certain doors for you (status) and the strength of the program is what will get you the job.  Those doors were too often slammed in my face with JC and SDSU on my resume, and I didn't get a chance to even show my qualifications.
By the way, some people may consider Irvine a commuter school but that is because of all of the crazy smart asians in orange county go there to save money- all of their science and tech programs are top-notch and respected all over the world.  Getting an EE degree there would be awesome.  Plus there is access to a lot of that kind of work in OC. Not to mention you can live in costa mesa, laguna, or huntingtom beach.
I came here to kick @$$ or chew bubblegum...and it looks like I'm all out of bubblegum.

pantablo

Quote from: conflicttheoristNow, I know some may disagree, but I believe it is better to go to a highly regarded school with a strong national reputation than to go to a local school even if they are supposed to be good for that one program.  


I couldnt agree more. I dont like it either but for sure a Name school will at least open more doors for you. I've seen it from the back side, having gone to a local school and avoiding the Name schools as elitist (I was an idiot back then...).
Pablo-
http://pantablo500.tripod.com/
www.pma-architect.com


Quote from: makenzie71 on August 21, 2006, 09:47:40 PM...not like normal sex, either...like sex with chicks.

LEVO

Quote from: conflicttheorist
Quote from: Kee

Now, I know some may disagree, but I believe it is better to go to a highly regarded school with a strong national reputation than to go to a local school even if they are supposed to be good for that one program.  

True.  

I have hired a lot of Engineers, PhDs, MSs, in the past 30 years. When you have 100s of resumes in a pile you first look at the relevant  job experience, and then where the degree is from.   When you have no job experience your GPA and the reputation of your school keeps you in the running.
05 SV650S, 02 GS500 (gone)

Kee

Quote from: conflicttheorist

Likewise, UC Santa Cruz may be a place for Berkeley rejects but you would get a job almost anywhere in the world over someone who went to Cal Poly with the same degree.  

Not saying it is a bad school at all. Definitley better than the Cal States and agree with you about reputation. Just saying that Berkeley has the reputation of being filled with all hippees, but I think UC Santa Cruz has more per capita.


Let's just hope that no matter what school you go to, the job market will be better when you graduate because it won't matter where you went to school if there is no jobs for you.
I love YOU goes to college.

Kee

Sorry to hijack, but got my own education question for those that have more experience.

I graduated from Cal (UC Berkeley) with a Mechanical Engineering degree and a GPA a tad over 3.  I have been working for 2 years for a government lab in San Diego.  They will pay for your graduate degree, so I decided to go back last fall to work on it. I wanted to learn things that I thought would be useful in a real job, things that would actually be practical.  Since I am still working full time, my options were limited to UCSD and SDSU, and after looking at thier courses, it looked like SDSU would teach me things I could use in the real world.  Well after 4 classes, I have determined that I was wrong. I am almost positive that this is going to be my last semester for the following reasons:

waste of my time. I could use the time learning things that would help me at work and learn skills that employers are looking for (FEA analysis, advance my drafting skills, etc.)

sorry to sound elitist, but worried that a graduate degree from SDSU would tarnish my undergrad Cal degree

that and i am assuming my grades are going to be pretty shitty considering I don't care about the classes because I know they are a waste of my time.

Just wanted to get your opinions. My mind is pretty much made up but wanted to see what other thought, particularly conflicttheorist and LEVO. Is it worth getting the grad degree just to put it on your resume.  BTW, I would like to go  back to school full time, but I have become too confortable earning a paycheck.
I love YOU goes to college.

LEVO

Quote from: Kee

sorry to sound elitist, but worried that a graduate degree from SDSU would tarnish my undergrad Cal degree


Is it worth getting the grad degree just to put it on your resume.  

I agree an SDSU masters after Cal BS isn't very impressive.  Perhaps you can start all over at UCSD.

In my opinion unless you are planning for a PhD don't bother with an MS degree.  I have a masters degree in Chem Eng and I can't recall at any point in my career that it helped me in advancement or with higher pay.  Although in certain disciplines, like teachers, there is a financial advantage to have an MS degree.  I know that at Poway Unified School District if you have an MS you get paid about 10% more.  Maybe it is like that in government jobs also.

In private companies it all depends on how good you are at what you do, how hard you work, we don't care about what degree you have or have not.  However like I said before, a degree from a good school gets you to the interview table.  An MS may get you a litle further, but just maybe.  

Have you considered an MBA instead.  Ignore all those MBA jokes ,it gets you a very good return on your investment.
05 SV650S, 02 GS500 (gone)

Kee

A MS matters for governement jobs, at least where I work, and affects your starting pay. But me earning my degree wouldn't lead to a raise. The kicker is, looking at the jobs posted online, even those looking for MS degree or more experience are paying less. So not going to be switching jobs anytime soon.
I was thinking about starting over at UCSD, but I figured I still wouldn't learn anything useful.  Rather build up my useful work skills.

I have a friend at USC getting his MBA and even he admits it is a joke, but that is something I plan on doing in a couple years. Does that matter as much where you get it from? Lot of people here get it at National University because they have night classes.
I love YOU goes to college.

LEVO

I would do it at the best place possible.  Come on Kee you have a degree from Cal and you think about following it with an MBA from NU.  NU is a joke, you pay the money and they give you the diploma.
05 SV650S, 02 GS500 (gone)

Kee

Yeah, I know that. Just figuring it is the easist way. Of course that thinking got me into the trouble i am in now. I think I am still 4-5 years from business school. I have a friend that does admission for the Cal young executives MBA program. Lets hope she keeps that job for awhile.
I love YOU goes to college.

conflicttheorist

Quote from: KeeSorry to hijack, but got my own education question for those that have more experience.

I graduated from Cal (UC Berkeley) with a Mechanical Engineering degree and a GPA a tad over 3.  I have been working for 2 years for a government lab in San Diego.  They will pay for your graduate degree, so I decided to go back last fall to work on it. I wanted to learn things that I thought would be useful in a real job, things that would actually be practical.  Since I am still working full time, my options were limited to UCSD and SDSU, and after looking at thier courses, it looked like SDSU would teach me things I could use in the real world.  Well after 4 classes, I have determined that I was wrong. I am almost positive that this is going to be my last semester for the following reasons:

waste of my time. I could use the time learning things that would help me at work and learn skills that employers are looking for (FEA analysis, advance my drafting skills, etc.)

sorry to sound elitist, but worried that a graduate degree from SDSU would tarnish my undergrad Cal degree

that and i am assuming my grades are going to be pretty shitty considering I don't care about the classes because I know they are a waste of my time.

Just wanted to get your opinions. My mind is pretty much made up but wanted to see what other thought, particularly conflicttheorist and LEVO. Is it worth getting the grad degree just to put it on your resume.  BTW, I would like to go  back to school full time, but I have become too confortable earning a paycheck.

First, I'd say that if you are looking to get any practical education then you probably shouldn't look at any respectable university.  These aren't technical or vocational schools.  They are academic institutions first and foremost.  They will teach you how to think a certain way and make you smarter, but not prepare you for a job.  Think, man, was berkeley any different?
Interesting thing about the jobs which ask for MS' paying less.  Is there some burden to being overqualified in this economy?  Some jobs may be off limits after you get the degree because they don't want to hire someone who has their sites on higher pay, a better job, or upward mobility.  My friend who got his degree in EE had the same offer to get a masters for free from his previous employer (who laid him off after the bubble burst).  It took him a while to get work again but he did and now he gets paid less.  He didn't take that offer to get a master's, but, the way the economy is, I am not sure he would have been better off with another degree- they couldn't have justified paying him less for doing the same work.  I am not sure about all this, but the job market is definitely worth examining further.
I think SDSU would tarnish your record... sadly.  I would drop the classes if possible- too many grad schools ask for the records of all schools where you took classes and you don't want to have to send them the ones you took at state.  You could omit them and they probably wouldn't ever find out, though (I know this for a fact).  
So, why didn't you apply to UCSD in the first place?
Being that you are not going to get practical experience you should get a degree that somehow adds to your resume and says that you are the cream of the crop.  Lets talk about the real purpose of Master's degrees.  You mentioned that they needed them for government jobs- this supports the idea that a degree requirement in most jobs only serves a gatekeeping function.  You have to be this tall to go on this ride.  You have to be this smart to get this job and have these skills.  Well, the government is trying to prevent cronyism and discrimination among other things, so they tend  to require a bachelors degree for certain jobs so they can maintain some sense that they aren't hiring people improperly.  Seriously retarded government jobs require bachelor's degrees for little other reason.  Not that this is an example of a retarded job, but probation officers have to have BA's and it doesn't matter what the degree is in.  Purely gatekeeping function.  We have to have some tangible way of saying that we know that candidate A is more qualified than Candidate B.  Accordingly, the person who supervises candidate A, who has a BA in whogivesafuk, must be more qualified than candidate A and possess a master's degree.  In the old days, experience is what made someone qualified for certain positions.  Now, actual knowledge doesn't matter if you don't have a degree which, arguably, proves it.
  Interestingly, I think most computer related industries are getting away from this.  Everybody seems to agree that the real geniuses are the ones who drop out because the teachers have limited imagination.  People who played computer games all their lives are qualified to test games.  People who hack into corporate websites are qualified to be in charge of security and web development.  Computers, in their inability to make mistakes, have forced companies to hire people who have the actual skills required to work with them and who have the imagination to actually develop products that work.  The opposite of government!
  The same thing occured in the other science fields.  I had a friend who didn't even complete two years of college but was making 60k at a biochem corp because he spent a few years learining how to do all of the necessary chem equations when all of the rest of us were doing our GE.  These places know if you are contributing, delivering, and are on top of the game... they aren't just putting up gatekeeping requirements.
Where am I going with this?  Well, certainly don't get a masters from SDSU just for the hell of it.  If you are gonna get a degree that does nothing for you at least get one that says you are really smart, smarter than the other guy with a masters degree (from state).  It is a strange thing to wonder whether more education may actually be a bad idea if it is free and you don't have to give up your day job.  I think you need to figure out what your goals are and how you can get there.  You have raised some issues with your own knowledge of the market, knowledge I don't have.
I came here to kick @$$ or chew bubblegum...and it looks like I'm all out of bubblegum.

conflicttheorist

I asked my GF, who is earning her PHD in Sociology about this question.  She said that people with master's degreesin the sciences, at least from academic institutions, go into research and development.  This makes sense because grad degrees, unless they are professional degrees like MD's, JD's, or MBA's, focus on going beyond the practical and into scholarly, academic, research oriented work.  You are required to produce scholarly work in order to graduate.  The opportunity to do research for professors is highly sought after experience in any good Master's program.  My inclination is that SDSU is not this kind of master's program, but more of an extension of the Bachelors, having too many non-academic professors and way too high faculty to student ratio.  UCSD, however, is highly likely to be a research oriented program with low faculty to student ratio, cutting edge professors, and more opportunity to work closely on projects with them.
 This still doesn't explain why the market for MS' seems to be so poor but, with the economy the way it is, I would guess that companies are cutting their R&D departments and the market (especially in SD) is flooded with Master's degrees who lost their jobs in 2000.  Because of this, looking for a new, better job may be risky.  If your current job offers benefits for getting an advanced degree you may be wise to stick with those instead of thrusting yourself into the market.
I came here to kick @$$ or chew bubblegum...and it looks like I'm all out of bubblegum.

Kee

Thanks for all the advice. I think you need a custom title. Something like "College Counselor"
I love YOU goes to college.

LEVO

Quote from: conflicttheorist
 This still doesn't explain why the market for MS' seems to be so poor but, with the economy the way it is, I would guess that companies are cutting their R&D departments and the market (especially in SD) is flooded with Master's degrees who lost their jobs in 2000.  Because of this, looking for a new, better job may be risky.  If your current job offers benefits for getting an advanced degree you may be wise to stick with those instead of thrusting yourself into the market.

I can give you one perspective from a private company point of view.

Say I have two applicants with similar qualifications one with masters and the other with bachelors degree applying for the same job.  Since I need to train the new hire at least six months anyway so they learn the way we do our business,  I rather hire the candidate with bachelors degree and don't pay the extra money for the MS degree.  

Of course this is not always the case for all jobs.  The problem with a masters degree is that you really isn't master of anything (contrary to the title), you are still a generalist.  PhD is a different story though.  Sometimes a PhD can fetch a premium if the research subject is valuable to the firm.
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