Author Topic: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.  (Read 300 times)

Offline The Buddha

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So here goes, hoping someone can benefit from this or atleast have some fun while doing something tangential.
OK so I was wiry and muscular kid, easily the biggest and strongest and fastest in my bunch. I was coming up on the "goonda" category though my teens. Was even my nick name in certain circles. So wiry by american 2018 standards, fat by 1985 India standards. OK.
Then in 1992 I arrived in the US at the ripe old age of 23. Gradually through 2016 I gain weight. Starting @ 175lb in 92 I reach a nice 238 in 2016 June.
When I get diagnosed as pre diabetic and the doctor wants me on insulin. So I tell the wife, nope, no shooting up myself everyday, I'm going on atkins.
It works, meat eggs and cheese, lots of fun, and I drop 20lb in a month ... and get stuck there for 3+ months. WTF ...
I drop to 20gm carb and literally kill myself, but still stuck @ 219 lb. 3 months go by, still 219.
Then someone suggests I do Intermittent fasting. Immediately I find that I can go 24 hrs between meals. I eat good healthy food, and 24hr between each.
Brilliantly my weight starts falling off, 3/4lb a day. After 4 weeks of that I forget to eat one day. Just 3 hrs, but by the time I remember its 11pm and I am already back home and too lazy to get out and get food. Great. Next day, so I fast for 2 days.
Then I try 3, then 5, then 8 etc, all along the way the weight keeps flying off.
I get a doc appt and blood test on day 5 of a 8 day fast, and all the numbers look awesome. So I keep doing, after the 8, trying a 13 day, I cramp up and struggle and break that @ 6 (turns out I needed electrolytes not food so OK) then do a 9, 9, and 20 day fast. Ending that 3 month run @ 70lb.
Sept 15 2016 I was 219 lb, stuck there from July 1, and Dec 15 2016 I was 148 lb.
Anyway I waffle about a few months basically staying @ 160 or so mostly. So I have a blood test in may 2017. Numbers for cholestrol get a little worse, not much but they look a bit worse.
Then may 2016 I start drinking hard liquor and eating more fat (almost exclusively as nuts). and I keep that super low carb diet. 8 motnhs later I am still in the 160-165 range, and I have a third blood test. The numbers look impressive, shockingly good.
Anyway a calorie for calorie substitution of carbs for alcohol apparently improves cholestrol.
https://watermark.silverchair.com/jn0350050539.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAaYwggGiBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggGTMIIBjwIBADCCAYgGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMc42EmewtRk57Y5EJAgEQgIIBWX66yZlE1Uz0VtSFQzOFvxP2uRGUXMX96jKplbCcos6meMGow4PF8jMsZDctVk2r0NKdcp3-3j4VKtkKfe7EKcGizcp45SNV50qfVHn_yYeL_tt1hKOpbbYTz_D6-gZAGM39ZWWHWV7u-N6rWF3FL4SAdhOA_x_OSh5RbE6OQGPXRotnVC57dF0_ywcVeckwTuI3DMiCi3O3WyXt3FySAS6ruoxvTNCZFkf1e8Hx_K7xwFFJmuPTvyDpVJ56tmQed8Vm4LCv0m8Ln-ctJQ0Ob9-fwttbPGsx_wvC350CWM2h0IS9xL9YrxIW6otjF0_aBC3vDJpWLWsiabJT0R8jiqqpeQRSxLxmTw1oj-YzeN8Tt164O1EkIgsLQXecXscVfy7BBefilVEiLAquuCe1D1JQ4pXFsWWzubRGIHI4rkBBWHEasUlrTaHwWi-54J0pXrIuyD_4hr9QvQ

Anyway so here I am sitting with a drink in 1 hand and no food for a few more days thinking - yea I'm drinking this for my health ...

Hope people find somehting they can take away form this - no you cant drink beer, whisky ??? yes, vodka ?? hell yes, Gin ??... why you gotta go and ruin this nice moment ... But OK, tequila ?? A - OK, Zima ... WTF is wrong with you people.

Cool.
Buddha.

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Offline yamahonkawazuki

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 12:22:28 AM »
Idk. Lol. Thought about at times in past. I'm. At 151. Been there for ever a decade.
Aaron
Jan 14 2010 0310 I miss you mom
Vielen dank Patrick. Vielen dank
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Offline The Buddha

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2018, 02:09:17 AM »
From when I met you Aaron I am 70 lb+ down now. I actually almost dropped a 100 lb at one point. The intention was to not stay @ 145 but to get to 165 and maintain that.
The way I lost weight (long term fasting) is nearly guaranteed to get you 10% of your body weight back, but that should be it. I've been doing ridiculous crap like drink 15 drinks and eat 15 servings of nuts in 1 day (that's over 3500 calories) and still in the 165 range.
Anyway its been very cool disproving ever damm health professional out there. They're all in the pocket of big food, big pharma or well the iconoclasts are in the pocket of little food LOL.
Cool.
Buddha.
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Offline yamahonkawazuki

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2018, 07:47:16 AM »
as long as youre body gets nutrition it needs, imho youre doing alright :)
Aaron
Jan 14 2010 0310 I miss you mom
Vielen dank Patrick. Vielen dank
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Offline peteGS

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2018, 09:54:34 AM »
Mate that's awesome  :thumb:

My wife put us on a low carb high fat diet in May last year and I was down nearly 20kg in 6 months, but best of all the horrible way I was feeling is gone. She'd already been pretty much doing that for a while before hand and I'd seen how much better she was feeling too.

I reckon I was heading for diabetes the way I was... lethargic, foggy head, constantly hungry, just generally feeling like crap.

Two weeks into the diet I had more energy that I'd had in years and started going to the gym as well. We're sticking with it, it's a way of life now not just a diet, and it's made a world of difference.

Only downside is I recently had to go and get rid of a bunch of clothes that were like tents on me... but I'd rather have that problem than the looming medical issues I'd no doubt be suffering from...

Luckily there's a local brewer here (Burleigh Brewing Co.) that make a true zero carb beer called Big Head, so I don't even have to give up beer  :thumb: :cheers:
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Offline The Buddha

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2018, 03:24:20 PM »
Yea the clothes fitting - I've heard beautiful comments like "you look like a skeleton in a trash bag" and "its like hugging a bag of karandi's (steel indian style ladles)" ... from my wife no less. However That was @ 145, @ 165, all she does is feel up the top 2 of the 6 pack ... yea the bottom 4 aren't coming yet yet.

BTW PeteGS - You're entering what is called beast mode. Like I am all the time nowadays. The first few weeks I didn't know about it and I ruined my wife and son's summer vacation in July 2016 - I'll never hear the end of it from her. You start burning your own fat and your body suddenly realizes there is tons of fuel here, lets burn it and starts running around like caffeine and sugar high kids around a bonfire. Insulin makes you slow, lethargic and sleepy and keeps your fat locked up.

Here is an interesting aside. Alcohol doesn't cause an insulin reaction. Neither does fat. You can happily throw back 1500 cal of each a day, in the day time you would have no fat burning but you have to sleep, and there you lose a good bit of weight, almost the same as if you ate nothing. In the first 4 days of water fasting I'd lose on average 10-15lb, and That would sharply drop off to 3/4lb after day 4. When I drink and eat nuts, that number is more like 5-6 days for that 10-15 lb after which it drops to 3/4 lb. And a calorie for calorie substitution of alcohol for simple carbs has been proven to improve good cholestrol and reduce bad cholestrol. I am truly truly amazed. Your body does the opposite of what the medical profession says. WTF ...

Cool.
Buddha.

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Online mr72

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 06:46:30 PM »
BTDT all of it similarly to your story.

At the end of it all there are really two factors that actually make a difference:

1. food is fuel for what your body needs including all kinds of nutrients like electrolytes and vitamins and basic building blocks for muscle and bone like calcium and protein. Included in this is carbohydrates for blood sugar. If you deprive yourself of the building blocks you need then you will have quality of life problems related to those things, like you won't build muscle if you don't eat protein, you won't have decent glycogen reserves if you work out if you don't eat some carbs, etc.

2. Your weight is absolutely and only a matter of calories in vs. calories out at least up until the point at which you have insufficient fat storage to balance it (i.e. you are about to starve to death). Your weight doesn't care where the calories come from. If you consume 1000 calories a day and you expend 2000 calories a day then you are going to lose 2 lb of fat every week like that. Period. If you are not losing weight in accordance with this formula then you have an error in calculation. In fact you can measure your weight change and if you strictly count all calories you intake then you can calculate your metabolic rate (calories out) with fairly good precision just by calculating your weight change vs. calories input.

This is where myth is all separated from fact. Atkins works because it's a calorie-cutting diet any way you look at it. Intermittent fasting works because it cuts calories. Every diet plan that works to lose weight works because it cuts calories. You can eat 5 snickers bars a day and if you expend 2500 calories in work every day you will lose weight, provided all you eat are the snickers bars. Or you can eat 1500 calories of saltine crackers a day and lose weight. Or substitute any other food, doesn't matter what it is, as long as the total calories adds up to less than you expend.

The problem is psychological, or at least a metal feedback loop. Basically if you eat less, you will automatically expend less calories because your brain is quite clever at using resources efficiently. This is why most diets or other plans fail at weight loss, and this is why invariably anything temporary will result in you eventually gaining most of the weight back. Your brain controls your body and it makes sure to compensate.

Your long-term fasting works great because it forces your feedback loop to break. If you intake zero calories then you can't expend only zero so you HAVE to lose weight. But if you intake 1000 calories a day then it's within reason your body can slow down to only burn that many every day and you might not lose weight.

This is also why a regimented deliberate exercise program focused on calorie burning will help make a diet work. If you control your calorie input precisely to 1500 calories a day and you get on a spin bike for two hours every day and burn a measured 1500 calories on the spin bike then that's the same as fasting... you burn every single calorie you intake just on the spin bike forcing you to be in calorie debt and ketosis for the entire rest of the day. This also trains your body to burn fat regularly from storage to replenish blood sugar. Intermittent fasting has the same effect of training your metabolism.

Most people who try and fail to lose weight do so because they fail to control either calorie input or calorie expenditure. Or both, of course. The most popular effective diet programs are the ones where you don't have to measure foods by weight and count and log every calorie but instead make an easy habit where you are nearly assured of not eating too many calories, such as Atkins or keto or intermittent fasting or cabbage-soup diet etc. But the problem with these fad diets is that they can't become a long term lifestyle change without causing major malnutrition effects so you really need a program that you can do forever... intermittent fasting is probably the best candidate of control (hey, it's really hard to eat >1500 calories in one meal without trying very hard) vs. long term livability. But if you do it long enough you'll adapt your diet so in that one meal a day you get plenty of whatever nutrients you need.

BTW those no-carb diets work only for people who don't work out. If you do no-carb diet and get on a bicycle you're either going to ride real slow making your workout meaningless or you're going to bonk rapidly. You have to eat carbs to work out, that's all there is to it.

This is all age-old known stuff that was written in a book called "Training Lactate Pulse-Rate" which revolutionized athletic performance when it was written. It breaks down how your three metabolisms work and if you understand it then it's easy to see how your weight loss/gain works vs. diet and blood sugar in addition to how to maximize athletic performance. It's all related.

FWIW about 15 years ago I used this whole process to lose 88 lb in 6 months. Since then my weight was up and down +/- 10 lb until I got into a bad bicycle wreck about 7 years ago and I gained back about 30 lb that I haven't been able to take back off mostly because I am unwilling to control my diet like I need to. But the point is, I have concrete proof this process works. Just most people (including me, now) are not willing to do what it takes to lose weight.

Offline peteGS

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 07:38:31 PM »
Three excellent books to read... "Grain Brain", "Wheat Belly", and "Low Carb, High Fat Food Revolution".

Basically, you need to switch your body's energy source from carbs to fat, which is what it is designed to work on. It's the fat that gives you the energy on this diet, although of course initially your body has a lot of excess fat available to burn.

And yep, the generation of insulin is what tells your body to store fat, so no matter what you do and how much you exercise, unless you restrict the intake of carbohydrates that trigger insulin generation, you will always struggle to keep weight under control.

Incidentally, in one of those books (I don't remember which), they say your body is 25% more efficient on fat vs carbs.

And, eating a slice of bread can in some cases be worse than eating a Mars Bar in terms of an insulin trigger...

Basically what it means for us is no sugar (both processed and high sugar fruits like apples, pears, etc.), no starch (like potatoes), no wheat, and avoiding oils that oxidise at lower cooking temperatures like vegetable oils, canola oil, etc. Everything is cooked in either butter, coconut oil, or lard/dripping.

Buddha, as for beast mode... well... yeah ok :D

This diet puts your body in ketosis (Atkins is similar in a lot of ways but not quite the same), and this is what causes your body to keep burning fat.

Those three books are absolutely worth reading, they're written by actual doctors (brain surgeon, heart surgeon, and MD), not "nutritional experts" too, I always hesitate on taking the word of the latest diet fads.

Anyways, enough blathering by me, I just get excited when talking about this because of the huge positive difference it's had on my life.
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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 09:41:06 PM »
Basically, you need to switch your body's energy source from carbs to fat, which is what it is designed to work on. It's the fat that gives you the energy on this diet, although of course initially your body has a lot of excess fat available to burn.
..
Incidentally, in one of those books (I don't remember which), they say your body is 25% more efficient on fat vs carbs.

You should read the book I linked.

You have three different metabolisms: fat, carbohydrate and protein.

Each has a different amount of oxygen required to metabolize the fuel source. Fat requires the most oxygen, carbohydrate the middle, protein the least. Your body chooses which fuel source to use based on the available quantity of oxygen and fuel.

This is why so-called "fat burning" while you are active is highly dependent on your cardiovascular system and lung capacity. That's the rub. You are not going to be able to burn fat while exercising or at a very high heart rate (say over like 50% max ... you have to measure) because there is not enough oxygen available. Usually the only people who have enough cardiac/pulmonary fitness to support fat burning during exercise are highly trained, very fit athletes... as in those who don't need to burn fat anyway.

If you try to make work (work out, exercise, get out of your chair, etc.) with very low or no blood sugar, then your body has no choice but to burn proteins directly from the muscle. This is bad. So you have to maintain a consistent blood sugar level which is why your cardiac fitness is so important. It's all related.

If you don't have enough oxygen available to support the needed effort with carbohydrate burning then you will consume muscle regardless of blood sugar level. That's the "lactate threshold" which is to be avoided at all costs.

So as it turns out, if you're fat and out of shape (not fit), and you want to lose weight, then exercise can help but only at a very low intensity for a long time each day (like a 2-hour walk...) until you build cardiovascular fitness and lung capacity. With huge lung capacity you can burn fat at a reasonably high heart rate. A really fit cyclist, for example, will burn fat pedaling 20mph on level ground, burn carbohydrate (blood sugar) during hard effort like climbing, and be able to replenish blood sugar from fat on rest intervals like on downhills. That's the only way in the world you do a 2-3 hour plus bike ride.

Offline peteGS

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 10:04:32 PM »
I understand what you're saying, and I 100% agree that no "working out" or any form of exercise is not going to help anyone lose weight unless as you say you operate on the calories in vs. out method.

I don't pretend to understand the whole science of it all, and reading more books won't help in that regard, don't take my comments as an argumentative/disagreeing approach to yours, I'm purely trying to convey what I have experienced and how it has worked for me.

My gym sessions are only 30 to 40 minutes max, 5 or 6 days a week, and I feel the way our diet lifestyle works seems to be sufficient for the needs to achieve that and I can easily do my full normal work days after the gym without fatigue. I have a desk job though, so it exercises my brain as opposed to my body.

We put enough protein and fat in we don't need to worry about carbs, at least at our levels of exercise.

I do work with people who are way more active, doing boxing, cycling, heavy weights, etc. and those guys tend to stick with carbohydrate rich diets and from what I see don't seem to suffer for it.

Anyways, pretty sure I wanted to stop my blathering so I shall do so now :)
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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 10:52:49 PM »
I understand what you're saying, and I 100% agree that no "working out" or any form of exercise is not going to help anyone lose weight unless as you say you operate on the calories in vs. out method.

I don't pretend to understand the whole science of it all, and reading more books won't help in that regard, don't take my comments as an argumentative/disagreeing approach to yours, I'm purely trying to convey what I have experienced and how it has worked for me.

Oh hey I didn't take that as argumentative at all. I figured you might dig that book since it gets heavy into the math and science of it. But the reality is it's way over my head and probably over the heads of 95% of people who might read it.

Offline yamahonkawazuki

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2018, 12:41:29 AM »
Pretty soon we will have the Buddha, and peters looking all buff. If its safe, and it works, keep it up. :D
Aaron
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Offline The Buddha

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2018, 01:50:13 AM »
Calories in vs calories out is 100% boooooooogus.
Sorry, I would lose 2-3lb a day eating and drinking 3500 calories and sitting on my butt ... Like I am going to tomorrow and day after.
Insulin is required for storage of any calories. You eat 3500 (as alcohol and fat) your body has the ability to circulate it for 3-6 hrs after you eat it, and all of it ends up in the toilet. OK I guess that's calories out. If so, yea then its accurate. Calories in = Calories expended+ calories stored + calories breathed out + calories sweated out + calories peed and pooped out.
If you want calories stored to be = 0 then your insulin footprint should be near 0.

Looking buff isn't just fasting related. Fasting only works well to ~15-18% BF. Below that it starts to lost the strong preference for fat vs protein. In other words till that BF you have 90% to 10% fat to protein. Below that 15-18% it starts to get closer to 70% fat to 30% protein. Below 10% its even worse and it would be like 50-50. But remember not all protein is muscle, some protein like those that cause alzheimers and many cancers are definitely bad and need to be attacked and destroyed.

Cool.
Buddha.
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Offline The Buddha

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2018, 01:58:12 AM »
2. Your weight is absolutely and only a matter of calories in vs. calories out at least up until the point at which you have insufficient fat storage to balance it (i.e. you are about to starve to death). Your weight doesn't care where the calories come from. If you consume 1000 calories a day and you expend 2000 calories a day then you are going to lose 2 lb of fat every week like that. Period. If you are not losing weight in accordance with this formula then you have an error in calculation. In fact you can measure your weight change and if you strictly count all calories you intake then you can calculate your metabolic rate (calories out) with fairly good precision just by calculating your weight change vs. calories input.


This is 100% guaranteed wrong past 3-4 weeks.
If you expend 2000 calories, and eat 1000 calories all of it in carbs you body will in ~3 weeks happily live on 1000 calories.
Its going to make you lethargic, cold and like you're in a fog. Your metabolism will drop and nicely adjust itself to the 1000 in a few weeks.
If you eat 1000 calories as fat, there would be no insulin to keep your metabolism down. It will have to use what you need from the dietary fat and then burn the reserve fat for the rest.
Then you can stop eating 1000 cal as fat and your body will happily keep the 2000 calorie expenditure on till you get to 15-18% BF.
Cool.
Buddha.

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Offline Bluesmudge

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2018, 03:39:53 AM »
Half joking here because I find the conversation really interesting but it sounds like the Buddha has discovered the key to a healthy life is a mix of alcoholism and anorexia.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 03:40:32 AM by Bluesmudge »

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2018, 02:13:28 PM »
If you expend 2000 calories, and eat 1000 calories all of it in carbs you body will in ~3 weeks happily live on 1000 calories.

Wow, this is just very wrong. But it may be correct for you if you do not exercise at all and have basically zero cardiovascular fitness.

If you intake 1000 calories and spend two hours on a spin bike very day you will absolutely burn 2000 calories a day, 1000 of which has to come from somewhere. It'll be fat if you are fit enough (enough lung capacity) to burn fat while on the bike. It'll otherwise be muscle and you'll be at LT the entire time. Which is basically impossible. You can't do 2 hrs on a spin bike if you are not sufficiently fit to burn fat while spinning.


Quote
If you eat 1000 calories as fat, there would be no insulin to keep your metabolism down. It will have to use what you need from the dietary fat and then burn the reserve fat for the rest.

It's not insulin that "keeps your metabolism down". It's inactivity that keeps your metabolism down. And if you are not fit enough to burn fat while active, then you are right, you will be very tired all the time because your blood sugar is necessarily very low since you can't convert fat to sugar fast enough.

The goal is not to have very low blood sugar, at least unless you simply want to starve. If you want to be healthy, you have to exercise and become fit. To exercise you have to have >0 blood sugar. To do that you either have to eat food that contains carbohydrates, or you have to be able to metabolize stored fat while active, which requires tremendous lung capacity and very high fitness.

Quote
Then you can stop eating 1000 cal as fat and your body will happily keep the 2000 calorie expenditure on till you get to 15-18% BF.

Your body will only expend calories in accordance with your activity level. You don't control that by eating. You control that by exercising.

That's like saying if you put a bigger fuel tank on your motorcycle the gas mileage will go down. Of course it's also a very popular wrong opinion, and it helps to sell a lot of supplements and fad-diet books. Hard to sell books to people when they say "don't bother with the supplements, eat what you crave as long as it's less than your caloric output, and exercise a lot". Nobody wants to hear that. They want to hear "eat this magic combination of stuff and somehow that will make your metabolism do backflips".

Simply, you lose weight when you are malnourished. There's no way around it. You can only tolerate that kind of malnutrition for a short time, say 6 months or so. Less than a year. But during this time you have to very intentionally control your exercise routine to maintain a high metabolic rate.

I am not trying to convince you, that's futile. But someone else might read this.

Offline The Buddha

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2018, 01:03:49 PM »
Mr72 that is incorrect on so many levels. 75-90% of the calories you expend a day are spent @ rest, and that is for people who workout. For the sedentary cubicle dwellers like me, its 100% once you consider walking to the fridge is the "exercise".
You spend 2 hrs on a spin bike, you will burn 1000+ calories. However aerobic activity has about 33:1 after burn. You will burn 30-35 calories in the few hours after. Yes that's a 1035 more than if you did nothing. True. However REE (resting energy expenditure) would lower itself as your body gets more efficient though its never going to get 1000 cal more efficient per day) I'd imagine it could get 3-400 cal more efficient, and if you went 3 days a week for that spin class, you just gave back 800 of the 1000 back to your body due to improved efficiency. Excellent way to torture your self.
 
To make that number even better You do sprints. You'd just burn 7-9 cal in a 100meter sprint. You can do 4-6 of those 3 days a week. That's 25 cal however in anaerobic activity you burn 3X the cals in the post workout recovery with no impact to REE. So the 100 cal you burn X 3 a week doesn't factor in the REE.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2885974/

The bottom line is - 2 people doing the same desk jockeying can be burning vastly different amounts of their body fat. I could be blowing through a 100/hr looking at a screen, my neighbor could well be under 50, I'd be warm, energetic, awake and happy, he could be cold, foggy and miserable. All insulin.

There is an even more important factor than burning the food you eat. Its the fact that you excrete as much of it as you can in terms of calories while retaining as much as you can in terms of nutrients. You hear of ketosis. You measure it with urine sticks, and you have heard of people runing on ketones. When you excrete something that can be used to fuel your body what does that mean ? Yes, you eat 5000 cal, you lose 4000 of it in the toilet and you burn the 1000 in 6-8 hrs and promptly your body without insulin blocking the fat gets to burning it.

@Bluesmudge - When does scarfing down 3500 cal a day as alcohol and nuts + meat and fish on top of that 3500 cal count as anorexic ??? Seriously you've never seem me eat. If they ever close down the Golden Corral in Columbia SC, you know where to send the condolence cards.

Its a swap of carbs for alcohol that's also proved to do what it did to me.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11067787

The whole idea is so simple, this is how the human body evolved. Fat is fuel but cant be stored past 4-6 hrs if eaten by itself.
Alcohol is only partially burnt and barely yeilds 1 cal a gm. Its turned to aldehyde and then to acetic acid releasing 1.12 cal/gm, in that process, but acetic acid can be broken and burnt for 6 cal/gm, however most people never break acetic acid down, that's why vinegar has no calories. It is acetic acid.
Protein is very very important and to a certain threshold depending on your need it will never be burnt for fuel. Its somewhere between -8 and 1.2 gm /lb of body weight.
Carbs create nearly all the insulin you need, but rarely deliver more calories than the insulin. In cases of good carbs like in vegetables they release insulin so slowly the insulin shows up several hours after any calories have been excreted.

Processed carbs send the insulin up fast and make you store fat if calories are floating around your system, and that lowers your metabolic rate.

There is tons of research and proof that's only disputed by McD, Coke, Pepsi, General Mills and Walmart.
Here is the link I forgot to add -
https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/10/health/soda-companies-health-funding/index.html

Your health research is nearly all funded by coke, pepsi and nestle and they all prefer that you excercise and drink their flagchit products. No one makes any $$ when you fast or eat real food that doesn't create insulin 100 ways from sunday. Worse yet, big pharma cant sell you diabetes, alzheimers, CVD, and cancer medications. And the excercise industry and weight loss industry all suffer likewise.

Cool.
Buddha.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 02:26:20 PM by The Buddha »
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Online mr72

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2018, 03:16:32 PM »
Mr72 that is incorrect on so many levels.

Well, it's not, and you are completely ignoring an entire range of the most critical element of this whole thing.

But never mind me. Tell you what, you can tell me I how dumb I am after you have lost all that weight and kept it off for 15 years. I'm sick of arguing. I gave the link for the Lactate Pulse-Rate book above and you can either read it and learn or not. But if you want to skip it, it's enough to know that your muscles require sugar no matter what, and to convert fat to sugar requires a lot of oxygen, therefore the rate at which you can do that is limited by your lung capacity and cardiovascular fitness. You can't completely ignore oxygen and fitness. Well, you can, but you will eventually be fat again.

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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2018, 04:45:08 PM »
Sorry Mr72, I am not ignoring exercise (or atleast not in concept - I am not doing it but I am cognizant of the fact that I should).
However I will not, and have never and do not believe 2hrs on a spin bike, or a jog or any damn thing remotely resembling steady activity for 2 hrs does anything other than age you, degrade your joints, destroy your muscles and have nearly no impact on your body fat levels. In many cases its effect on body fat is to - get this add to it and its torture.
I will acknowledge I need exercise but I will need to get that in HIIT (high intensity interval training AKA sprints) and HRT (heavy resistance training).

However you cant excercise your way out of a 100lb from 45%BF to 20% BF. That is all diet. The first 90lb is all diet. In fact most of that is the fasting diet. AKA - dont eat.
Somewhere between 18% BF and the proverbial 10% BF excercise (HIIT+HRT) takes up as the determining factor. AKA the last 10lb is HIIT and HRT.

I guess I dont have a track record of more than a year + but I am enjoying this. What diet lets you eat and drink alcohol aplenty and still get to 20% BF.

Cool.
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Re: My struggles with the medical system, diabetes, health issues and weight.
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2018, 04:56:52 PM »
your muscles require sugar no matter what, and to convert fat to sugar requires a lot of oxygen, therefore the rate at which you can do that is limited by your lung capacity and cardiovascular fitness. You can't completely ignore oxygen and fitness. Well, you can, but you will eventually be fat again.

This is only 1/2 the story. Here is the rest of it.

OK From livestrong I pulled this.

Your body cannot convert fats directly into muscle-ready glycogen. However, through a series of metabolic processes that result from conditions of depleted carbohydrates, it is possible for stored fats to be broken down into glucose, which can then be converted into glycogen. But carbohydrates are immediately and easily converted into glucose, so metabolizing them is the most efficient way for your body to produce glycogen.

It needs dietary carbs to e depleted, else it wont bother converting fat to glycogen. OK Great. That's the point you made. Now lets try this.
In the presence of oxygen fat turns into glycogen very readily. So aerobic activity will do that. Great.
What happens in the absence of oxygen. Get this, it still converts it. just much less efficient. Which works wonders for us, this is the 3X inefficient process where 1 calorie used in anaerobic activity results in 3 being used in the recovery.

There is those 2 tacky a$$ old dudes all over youtube and what not pushing HIIT and HRT along with a keto diet. There is some truth to that. Aerobic is murder on most fat burning and muscles and testosterone. And in time your REE will get lower and lower to nearly negate all the burned calories with cardio type workouts.

I'll look that book up though, here is one for you - The Obesity code by Dr Fung. I followed that quite closely without even reading it.

Cool.
Buddha.
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