GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

Main Area => Odds n Ends => Topic started by: Watcher on May 05, 2019, 09:55:48 PM

Title: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on May 05, 2019, 09:55:48 PM
Has anyone ridden a CB650?
I'm really liking the look and the specs.  Might get one.

The CBR650F is a lot more common, and while the CB is basically just the CBR with no fairings I'd rather get a direct opinion of the CB.


A coworker is trying to get me to buy his Z1000 which he doesn't ride anymore.  I'm also at a state where I'm thinking of selling the Monster again.
The Z is simply incredible, but it's way more bike than is necessary and totally impractical, so I don't particularly want the Z, but after riding a non super-sport tuned 4-cylinder I do think I want to try that engine configuration.
Not many choices in a 600-800cc 4-cylinder naked.
CB650F, Yamaha FZ8 (if you can find one), older FZ6 (meh), Suzuki GSXS series, older Suzuki Bandit...  Is that it?

What I might do is see if I can rent the Z for a month or two to sell the Duc, so that way I've got something to ride in the mean time, then I can use the Duc money to put towards a purchase of something new.
Sucks Honda doesn't really do the "demo ride" thing like everyone else does.  I can test ride anything from the other 3 Japanese brands but not Honda.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: IdaSuzi on May 05, 2019, 11:20:04 PM
Hopefully we have someone who has actually ridden one. But for me from a specs standpoint the cb650 is a bit of a disappoinment. It's a meager 50$ less than the GSXS-750 which has more features, 30+ more hp, and only weighs 11 lbs more than the CB. I suppose the heavy weight, price and only 80 hp from an I-4 engine are the disappointment for me. I'll be looking at this category used in a year or two and I have it narrowed to the FZ-09, GSX-S750, and maybe the Triumph Street Triple. However if Suzuki put the DL1000 engine in the new SV and brought back a new naked SV1000 then I would buy that in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: IdaSuzi on May 05, 2019, 11:23:52 PM
Forgot to mention the Z900 which while a little out of your cc range is only about 10 peak hp above the GSX-S750, and they make the retro Z-900 RS if that is your cup of tea
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: mr72 on May 06, 2019, 05:14:13 AM
I'd be far more interested in a Street Triple. Or even a Yamaha XSR700 or MT-07. The Honda just seems awfully heavy for what you get. That's nearly as heavy as my triumph and maybe only 5 more HP. But hey, IDK what you are really looking for. You had a cb500f right? So the new cb might be a natural progression. If it weren't such a long ride I would be interested in your Ducati.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: Watcher on May 07, 2019, 12:31:17 PM
I love the look of the XSR but the deal breaker for me is the aluminum gas tank.

I need to be able to use a tank-bag.  That kinda rules out the Z650, too, it's kinda cramped up front.


Also not stoked on the Suzukis.  The modern GSXR has kinda crap electrics, the GSXS may follow suit.

Z900 has the same issues as the Z1000/Z650.  Overpowered and not practical, not great for luggage.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: Bluesmudge on May 07, 2019, 01:58:36 PM
I love the look of the XSR but the deal breaker for me is the aluminum gas tank.

I need to be able to use a tank-bag.  That kinda rules out the Z650, too, it's kinda cramped up front.


Don't let a aluminum or plastic tank stop you. There are many tankbag options besides magnetic.
Obviously some that mount with straps.
You can also use something like the Cortech Dryver ring (https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/cortech-ring-mount-for-dryver-tank-bag (https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/cortech-ring-mount-for-dryver-tank-bag)) to mount a small Pelican case, or screw it into a plastic cutting board in the bottom of your favorite magnetic tank bag.
Also, Bagster and Top Sellerie make tank covers with integrated clips for their tank bags.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: Watcher on May 07, 2019, 06:42:25 PM
If I didn't already have like $300 worth of magnetic tank bags maybe I would be more inclined to say F it and get a Givi or SW Motech tank-ring bag.

When I had my Buell it kinda sucked.  I did find a bag I liked but options were limited, and the straps we're a pain to deal with, especially if I wanted to remove them and not use the bag that day.
If the bag stayed on the bike permanently maybe it'd be a different story.
It's part of why I decided to sell the Buell.



The 80HP figure to me isn't a deal breaker.  My Buell had a claimed 100HP and to me that was overkill.  It's still more than my Duc makes, too, as that's just a meager 60HP out of it's carburetted air-cooled twin.
So for me it would still be an upgrade.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: mr72 on May 08, 2019, 04:50:05 AM
If I didn't already have like $300 worth of magnetic tank bags maybe I would be more inclined to say F it and get a Givi or SW Motech tank-ring bag.
...
The 80HP figure to me isn't a deal breaker.  My Buell had a claimed 100HP and to me that was overkill.  It's still more than my Duc makes, too, as that's just a meager 60HP out of it's carburetted air-cooled twin.

So a MT-07 or XSR700 makes nearly as much power, probably more torque in a usable range being a twin rather than a four-cylinder, has better suspension and is at least 50-60 lb lighter, maybe more. IMHO the XSR also looks a lot better, but it may be a hair more expensive. Give it a look? For that matter a Ducati Scrambler is also in that 70-75hp range, also in the 380-lb range, has ABS and other fun features (but an alu tank...), and costs about the same as the Yamaha but likely a lot more expensive to maintain.

Regarding your bag, I wonder if you wouldn't just be happier in general with a fixed top case or even one pannier. FWIW I have a single LH side pannier on the Triumph (a RH bag would interfere with the exhaust). I take it on and off the bike sometimes, mostly when I'm parked outdoors and I think it might rain, since the bag is not strictly waterproof (leather..). The GS has a cheap scooter-type top case and I love it. It holds basically everything, it's out of the way, water resistant, lockable (if anything made of ABS plastic is lockable...).

Not trying to tell you what to do, just what works for me :) 
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: Bluesmudge on May 08, 2019, 07:26:24 AM
Are you totally decided on 4 cylinders?
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: Watcher on May 08, 2019, 08:15:45 PM
MT07 is off the table.  I like the bike but it falls short for me on too many issues.

Not really interested in another Duc either.  At least not at this time.  A little more than I'm willing to spend, the Scrambler isn't quite my style, and the new Monsters are MASSIVE for some reason.
Believe it or not, given the choice I'd rather not have ABS.  I have too much fun throwing the rear end around in traffic.

Not a fan of top boxes.  If for no other reason it kills the look of the bike.  For 90% of my tasks a tank bag is enough and for the other 10% of the time I use a tail-bag.


Not married to the idea of 4-cylinders.  Been on 2-cylinders for literally all of my bikes thusfar.  Just thinking maybe I'm missing something.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: mr72 on May 09, 2019, 04:29:30 AM
Fwiw I agree top boxes look bad, but man is it handy. However I don't have one on my Bonnie for a reason.

I also agree the new Ducati monsters would be a no go for me too. Scrambler is a much better looking bike.

I haven't ridden any of these, just sat on them in dealerships. Xsr700 is pretty attractive but I think I am too tall for those ergos. If I was buying a new bike it'd be a triumph speed twin or a Kawasaki versys. Riding a big displacement air cooled bike has nearly convinced me that water cooling could be a good idea even on a motorcycle.

Anyway, hope you find what you really like! Maybe the Honda is the one.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: Bluesmudge on May 09, 2019, 07:29:23 AM
I know you probably want a light weight bike, but what about the 2010+ Honda CB1100 or mid 90's CB1000.

Absolutely stunning naked muscle bikes. The 1100's seem to be fairly cheap used relative to their MSRP.


2013 1100:
(https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/9bqem/s3/rideapart-review-2013-honda-cb1100-abs.jpg)

1995 1000:
(https://ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/web-right.jpg)
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: Watcher on May 09, 2019, 11:50:24 AM
I don't mind some of the "modern-classic" looking bikes like the Z900RS or XSR series, but I don't particularly enjoy the CB1100.  Less "modern" and more "classic".
The CB650R I'd be more interested in, but I still like the CB650F style a bit better.
That may change if I see one in person.

Re: CB1000, actually a CB919 "Hornet" wouldn't be a bad find.  I see those every now and then on the used market, but the "hot-seat" exhaust isn't the best idea for Arizona.


I may be redacting my statement about the XSR700, too.  It really is a cool bike, and I can get the necessary luggage for cheap due to my line of work.
Also there's one being "closed out" for a really good price at a local dealership.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: Watcher on May 09, 2019, 04:12:37 PM
Went by the local major dealership that showed they had on in stock.

Was there for like 15 minutes and nobody approached me.
A salesman helping an older couple passed by the area, didn't even say hi or offer to find me a free salesman.
On my way out there were 4 guys in uniform by the door.  Didn't even get a goodbye.

Probably the 4th time I've been in that dealership ever, it's been the same every time.
If it comes down to I want one for sure I'll probably hit up the local Honda dealership.  They're closer to me, too, just didn't have one in stock.

At least I got to sit on one.  Was fairly comfy.  Seat had a weird "middle" to it.  If you sat up on the gas tank it was nice, and if you slid way back there was a bit of a "bowl" you settled into, but right in the middle the edge of the seat presses into my legs.
Slightly more upright than my Monster.
That's about all I can say about it...
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: pliskin on May 15, 2019, 07:04:48 AM
What happened to your love affair with your "duc" ? Didn't you get it not to long ago?
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: cbrfxr67 on May 15, 2019, 10:17:45 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/PDWxV39/88888888888.jpg)
 i know you're talking about the cb but when I first saw one of these on CL i was smitten.  That frame sang to me.  Then i looked up specs and slept on it,...meh.  Still like it,...  Interested to see what you do watcher
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: Watcher on May 15, 2019, 11:12:08 PM
What happened to your love affair with your "duc" ? Didn't you get it not to long ago?

It's been two years.

I still like it, but it's showing it's age.


I've gotten word that the local Ducati dealership is sitting on some Scramblers they may want to liquidate.  My shop has a great relationship with them, talking to their parts guy he says I'd be "very surprised" by the deal they could offer me.

I like the engine and build quality enough that I could stick with a Duc, but I don't know if I'm a total fan of the Scrambler style.



Then i looked up specs and slept on it,...meh.

Everyone seems to really be "poo-poo-ing" the specs on these.  I get that it's no 600RR, but it's pretty strong compared to the competition.
The 2019 CB makes a claimed 94 horses and 47ft/lbs.
A Z650 makes a claimed 68 horses and about the same torque figure.
An SV650 makes 75 HP and, yet again, about the same amount of torque.
The Honda is actually leading the pack, here.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: IdaSuzi on May 16, 2019, 12:30:49 PM
Haha not poo-pooing it at all. It just seems to me to slot in a funny spot. The CB650f that you referenced has less power than the 2019 CB650r and way different styling. The CB650r is neo-retro and now has an MSRP of $8,899. The 2018 and before CB650f still has an impressive 90 hp @ 11,000 rpm and 47 ft-lbs @ 8,000 rpm. My problem with the CB650f is that being a heavy, I-4 standard with an MSRP of $8,249, it is much more honest IMO to compare it to the GSX-S 750, which in 2018 had a very similar MSRP of $8,299 but has 112 hp @ 10,500 rpm and 54 ft-lbs of torque @ 9,000 rpm. Even the weight is only like 8 lbs apart.

I could spec warrior all these bikes but my problem is when you get to the I-4, $8k range naked bikes, there are too many better bikes that are also likely cheaper used because of Honda's resale. The Z900, MT-09, GSX-S 750, the Street Triple and so on.

The SV-650, MT-07, and Z650 are great naked bikes but are much cheaper, fuel efficient, lighter, and are all twin engines. All these bikes are narrower, weigh 40+ lbs less, are all about $1,000+ less than the CB-650f, and have much more low rpm torque being twins.

That was what I was trying to say the first go around but I might not have been very clear. I think the cb-650f is probably a great reliable bike and looks amazing, but is not really in the same class as the mid range naked twin cylinder bikes, and in my opinion doesn't stack but well with the other I-4, I-3 bikes. Best of luck with your search, I think you should pick the bike that you want the most, and that you feel the best about.
Title: Re: CB650F
Post by: Watcher on May 16, 2019, 09:00:19 PM
Haha not poo-pooing it at all. It just seems to me to slot in a funny spot.

That's fair, and truth be told a lot of what attracted me to the Honda was the style, and that's both in the F and the R trims.  Just not a big fan of the GSX-S.


I've gotten word that the local Ducati dealership is sitting on some Scramblers they may want to liquidate.  My shop has a great relationship with them, talking to their parts guy he says I'd be "very surprised" by the deal they could offer me.

I got to test ride this today.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/kQK60B.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnkQK60Bj)

I liked it, but I didn't absolutely fall in love with it.  Just was like "Yeah, it's comfy, it makes decent power, I like the suspension, it looks pretty cool, and I like the exhaust."  Not much more to say about it.  I enjoyed the ride, I could enjoy owning this machine, lets see what kind of deal I can get on one.

It's a Scrambler 1100 Sport with the Termignoni side-pipes.  That exact one, the demo model they had, was for sale.  In talking to the head sales guy he's like "Yeah, since we get special pricing on the demo models we can sell them for a pretty good discount."  Then I mentioned my connection, said I was told they could hook me up.
So he said he would draw up some papers and email me a figure later tonight.

Well, I got it.  "Very surprised" was one way to describe my reaction.

$17,000 OTD.   :icon_eek:


To be fair, the 1100 Sport is the highest model in the Scrambler family, it's got the Ohlins suspension, and has a $1500 Termi system on it.  Base price is about $15,000, and the formal quote I got lists about $1400 in various dealer fees and about $1250 in sales tax.  So the bike should be around $20,000 OTD.  The comparison I was given is the OTD price quoted is about the sticker price of a new one with the same options.
So that's about a $3k savings by getting a demo model, but that doesn't seem that significant considering it's essentially a used bike and KBB lists the used rate closer to about $13k.
I was offered the first service comped, which is a few hundred dollar value, as my "homie hookup".  But I'm still not impressed.

If they were able to do it for like $13-14 I might be tempted, but $17...  I like the bike, but I don't $17k like the bike.

But in the end, what's grounding me the most is I could get two CB650s for the price of this one Scrambler.
It's very surprising that the base price of the 1100 is even that high.  I mean, the Scrambler 800s are starting around $8000.  Almost double the price for an extra 300ccs?  Seriously?


Actually, they have a Scrambler Icon on the lot that's pretty cool, maybe I'll reply that it was more than I expected but request a quote on the other one.  They've also got a Monster 1200 for not a bad price, and by "not a bad price" I mean it's several thousand less than the Scrambler 1100!




While I was there, I also got to test ride the new Zero SR/F.  Holy Frijoles!  The amount of torque that machine makes is insane!  It's nearly indescribable, it pulls and pulls and pulls, and when you think it's done, it's not, and when you expect it to be a little weak, it isn't.
From a stop it was very gentle and you can feel the torque kind of ramp up, around 20mph and gaining it's like "You better hold the F on, bro!  We're going and we're not stopping!"
Took it on the interstate.  Need to overtake someone?  A little twist of the wrist and you overtake EVERYTHING!
It feels like it pulls just as hard doing 80 as it did when we were going 30.
No one needs that kind of torque, but damn was it amazing!  I'd totally get one if they weren't $20k and there was actually a chance at saving a lot of money by not buying fuel over the length of ownership...
Got back to the dealership and my guy asks "What did you think?"  I answered "I don't think I should ride that bike any more."   :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: mr72 on May 17, 2019, 04:36:22 AM
Well. If a scrambler 1100 is in the equation then that opens up a lot of options. I think the 800 is a magical formula and decent price but the 1100 is just too big in all categories, especially price. And for >15k it should be perfect.

17k. You could get a scrambler icon and the Honda for that money.

Did you check out a speed/street triple? Or xsr900?
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Bluesmudge on May 17, 2019, 08:41:02 AM
$17,000 seems crazy talk to me. I think they are cashing in on the scrambler craze. There is no reason that demo bike should be getting so close to Goldwing type monies.

For about half the price you could get a brand new Aprilia Shiver 900. I think you should look into that bike. 93.8 HP and 66.3 lb-ft of torque with a 480 pound curb weight.
(https://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/KWP_7600.jpg)

I'm really interested in the Dorsoduro 900 which has the same engine as the Shiver but in an oversized-super-moto style. Seems like a lot of bike for under $10,000 OTD. I'v heard of demo mdels leaving the dealer for under $8k.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on May 17, 2019, 12:04:18 PM
REALLY enjoyed your take on (zero) those bikes watcher!  Thanks for sharing,... (go ride somemore that was great stuff!)
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on May 18, 2019, 01:24:39 AM
Well. If a scrambler 1100 is in the equation then that opens up a lot of options. I think the 800 is a magical formula and decent price but the 1100 is just too big in all categories, especially price. And for >15k it should be perfect.

17k. You could get a scrambler icon and the Honda for that money.

Did you check out a speed/street triple? Or xsr900?

The 1100 was kind of an impulse thing, truth be told.  I hit my guy up like "What demos do you have?" and he returned with "We've got an 1100 with a pipe on it, it's pretty sweet, I think you'll like it better than the 800."  Then I geared up and went and test rode it.
Like I said, I liked it, but I didn't like like it.

I'm going to go back and check out the 800 series.  They have an 18 Icon for like $8500, but I'm hearing that the 19 Scramblers are quite a bit better.  They re-tuned the EFI, it has a much better dashboard, slightly better suspension, LEDs all around, and an updated seat.  The price did go up, but a very reasonable amount.  Depending on the deal they can offer me on the 18 vs ordering in a 19 may make the decision between the two, because I don't think I need the updated feature set but I would like the updated feature set.
But first I have to ride one.


I have looked at some of the Speed/Street Triples.  I like them, but I don't get too excited over them.  I'd have to ride one to get a better opinion.
I have ridden an FZ09 and I didn't really like it, truth be told.  They're cool bikes, but I don't think I'd ever own one.  The Street Triple is a lot smaller of a bike, though, so that could be a different story.  Less hooligan and more sport-naked.  Eh, I'd take it or leave it.
XSR900 is the same story.  Don't really like it.  I'd much prefer the 700.


For about half the price you could get a brand new Aprilia Shiver 900. I think you should look into that bike. 93.8 HP and 66.3 lb-ft of torque with a 480 pound curb weight.


Actually, I have looked into the Shiver.  I like the appearance, the sound, and the engine, especially since it's less maintenance than a Duc, and the local shop has one stickered at, I think, $9.5k.  But there are a few problems with it:
Hot seat exhaust + Arizona =  :nono:
Aftermarket support basically doesn't exist.

When I put that bike into any of my vendors I come back with basically just brake pads and oil filters.  My company's website lists like 4 direct fit components, where as for a Monster I get more like 4 pages of direct fit stuff.
There's literally one exhaust system I can get for it, it's an Akro, it's $1000, and it's on closeout meaning once they're gone, they're gone.
A bike that is nearly 100% dependent on the dealer is not the bike for me.  It's cool, but I just can't do it.

REALLY enjoyed your take on (zero) those bikes watcher!  Thanks for sharing,... (go ride somemore that was great stuff!)

Glad you enjoyed it!  Here's a quick vid of me riding it!  Sorry it's so short and uncut, my camera died into the ride and didn't catch my interstate ride and I was too lazy to edit out the boring red-light.



I'm going to use this space to kind of talk out loud.  I feel like it'll help me articulate some of my thoughts, and I'd appreciate any comments on anything I mention.


I think with 90% certainty my next bike is going to be another Ducati.  Many things I like about mine are so purely Ducati, I don't think I'd enjoy any other bike the same way.  The way it sounds, the way it looks, the fit/finish, the charm of it not being purely about the performance and more about the experience, and although I'm not a vain person I love the prestige.  Ducati has that name that people look up to, it feels good when someone compliments the bike you ride, and as someone who works where I work with the position I have I feel like that type of motorcycle represents me well as a proper enthusiast.
I've also had this Ducati longer than any other bike I've owned.  Much longer.  It's over 2 years already, and my average length of ownership is typically measured in months.

There's also the fact that the guys at the local Ducati shop actually seem to give a crap.
They often show up to my store's bike nights, as well as drop by to show off new toys and things.  I've gone there for service and had them charge me pennies on the dollar "because".  Every time I go there I get greeted by the staff, can help myself to the little drink fridge, can just stand around and BS if I want.  They send customers my way, and I do likewise.
I've been emailing the sales manager back and forth asking about prices on different machines and he's been polite, helpful, and all around willing to answer all of my questions so far, and I got invited back to test ride other bikes.

I go to the local "big box" dealerships and get basically ignored by everyone.  If I'm not there tossing hundred dollar bills around, I guess they won't give me the time of day.
So I feel better supporting the local Ducatistas.


With that out of the way, there are two major contenders, the first of which is a Scrambler Icon 800.

It's relatively cheap, which is a plus, and it's arguably very good for my typical use.  It's got decently plush suspension, and the roads out here can be terribad in some spots.  It's also a more willing platform for luggage, and although I typically don't take much with me I would like the ability to load up some bags in order to go get (more) groceries without having to borrow a car or tag along with my roommate.
It would also come in handy being able to pack more stuff for MSF.  I really load up my tank bag and tail-bag as it is, having more room for some extra Gatorades or whatever would be rather welcome.
It's not particularly suited to interstate travel, but I only really do that if I have to teach MSF and that's typically a half hour or so on the interstate and done, so it's just fine.  Maybe cross-country is a stretch, but I'll have to reserve judgement until I ride one and feel how it does at 80mph and how the seat is.

There are also a TON of aftermarket accessories I can get for it.  I've already put together a modest cart off CycleGear's website.  I like it as kind of a pseudo flat-tracker.  I'd do some lower bars with a gauge relocate, little fly-screen/number-plate, CompWerkes exhaust, some engine protection, I found some saddlebag supports that look kind of like number plates, fender delete, and I'd get the black aluminum gas-tank side-covers from Ducat.  I think I could really enjoy that, and it would be a perfect little commuter/utility bike.

Couple of hangups, though.  First is the wheels.  180/55-17 for the rear.  Perfect!  110/80-18 for the front.  Hang on!  I'm finding mostly options in dual-sport, some older oddball touring tires, and some cruiser tires.  To me the perfect tire right now is the Michelin Road 5, and that's not available...
I would very rarely if ever take this bike onto dirt roads even, so I don't really need or want DS tires, it's not a cruiser and while it would probably get insane mileage on a set of cruiser tires I don't think the performance would be enough to really enjoy the sportiness of the Scrambler.  And I don't particularly jump at the sight of any of the sport-touring options.
I get it, it's a Scrambler, it's a "go everywhere" type of machine, but tires are pretty damn important and I feel like if I can't find a tire I really like on there it'll keep me from fully enjoying the machine.
I've looked into it a little and there doesn't even seem to be a 17" wheel available for it.  The Scrambler "Cafe" uses a 17" front wheel, but it's also a spoked wheel and, as such, is a tube type, and I'll be damned if I'm going to use tubes on a street machine.

The second is that while the Scrambler is a "sporty" and fun little bike, it's not really a "sport" machine.  I've no doubt that I could have fun on it on the twisty mountain roads, but a proper street bike is more my style on the weekends.
Well, no problem, I can get something more sport focused for when I want to ride more aggressively on the weekends, and it's something I've been wanting for a long time.  I would love a little Ninja 300 or something similar to canyon carve, but I do have a problem with space right now.  I park on my patio because there's not a parking space available, and I'm going to be living that apartment life for the foreseeable future, so I'm kind of limited to one bike right now.  There's also the fact that a down payment and monthlies on a new Scrambler is going to make it harder to save up for a little Ninja, so it's going to delay what I really need to fulfill my wants in motorcycles.


But then I thought, maybe the perfect bike has been staring me in the face this whole time.  A bike that's a great commuter, light duty utility, and short interstate travel machine.  It's also really sporty and can be ridden like a race bike in the twisties.  It's a machine that's iconic, looks great, sounds great, and is comfortable.  One that can potentially satisfy me better than any other bike.
One that I've already owned for 2+ years, that has been that almost perfect machine.
A Monster.

Specifically a Monster 821.

Especially the current version, as Ducati went with a more classic style that hearkens back to the Monster that I have.
It's updated with better technology.  It's stronger, faster, stoppier ( :dunno_black: ), has an engine that is more reliable and has a significantly longer service interval than most other Ducatis (including the Scrambler), not to mention has that iconic look, sound, feel, essence!
It has proper 17" wheels front and rear.
I know it's comfortable, I know it's a great commuter, I know it's great on a mountain road, I know I'd love it.  The main reason I don't want my Monster any more is it's getting a little long in the tooth.  A newer, younger, better Monster is the perfect replacement!
... or is it?

It's about $3000 more expensive, doesn't have quite the extensive list of aftermarket toys, and isn't as luggage friendly.  It won't offer me any more versatility than I already have, and will be at higher risk of theft.


Test riding both may be the deciding factor.  If I ride the Scrambler and I'm like "Hell yeah, this is perfect!  I can have a ton of fun on this!" I'll probably go for that one.  If I react how I reacted to the 1100, maybe not, I'll probably pursue another Monster.
Who knows, I might ride the Monster and be like "meh, it's too much of the same," or it might reignite that spark and remind me why I fell in love my Monster so much...

I haven't had this hard of a time with picking out a bike before.  I've always kind of just flown by the seat of my pants and gone with my instincts.
GS650GL?  That's cool looking, price is right, got it.
GS500E?  A little sportier, price is right, way more comfortable, got it.
A second GS500E?  The obvious!
CB500F?  Hey, it's basically an EFI GS, little more powerful, sounds a little cooler, got it.
Buell XB12?  It looks cool, it's really unique, decent price, lets get it!
Monster 750?  A little old, but it's beautiful.  Always liked the look, maintenance isn't too bad, lets get it!

CB650F?  CB650R?  XSR700?  Z650?  Another CB500F?  CBR500R?  Triple?  Scrambler?  Monster?
My head is spinning.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: mr72 on May 18, 2019, 05:20:00 AM
Well a monster 797 is basically the same bike as a scrambler 800 but in more sport naked clothing.  Same engine, nearly the same frame and suspension, right? Different appearance and ergos. So maybe add it to your list?

All of your reasons to stick with Ducati are very compelling. Only big downside is cost of ownership. For example I have a coworker whose brother has a monster that got hit in a parking garage, same year model as my triumph. Tank is dented. A new painted tank is $2800 reportedly.  Now, when I was shopping for my triumph there was a 2014 with virtually no miles on it and a crushed tank and I priced a new painted tank and it was only $900. That's a huge difference. I would imagine parts you can only get from the manufacturer like wheels, swingarm, etc. are similarly priced. The Duc probably has as much aftermarket as a Bonneville but I bet aftermarket parts are also priced higher.

But still, if I was buying a new sporty motorcycle I'd have a hard time not getting a monster, for many of the reasons you mentioned. And as you might remember, I seriously considered a scrambler when I bought my triumph. A monster 695 is still on my list. If one shows up on Craigslist this winter after I have a big commission check in the bank I will likely snap it up. A fuel injected m900 could also get my attention.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on May 18, 2019, 11:35:05 PM
I'll have to check out the 797.  On paper it seems like the proper modern equivalent to mine while the 821 seems a bit of an upgrade, based on performance and features.
The 797 engine makes 73/49 HP/FtLbs and is air cooled while the 821 makes 109/63 and is liquid cooled. The 821 in "rain mode" almost exactly makes the 797's power, so the 821 essentially has a 797 within it.
My M750 claims 62/45, to put it in perspective, with a typical slide carb throttle response.  Both of the new ones are EFI, of course, with the 797 being cable throttle and the 821 being electronic "fly by wire" throttle.

The 797 is cheaper by about $3k, but has the 7.5k mile Desmo-service while the 821 has the 18k mile service, so cost of ownership over the period of even the loan would about equal out on the two (Desmo-service costs about $1000, the rate that I ride I'd need to service the 797 yearly while the 821 would be basically a 3 year interval).

Also, for the extra $3k I'd get the TFT display, proper traction control with the Bosch cornering ABS, and can choose either the classic Ducati yellow or an interesting black, red, and silver "Stealth" color, where as the 797 only comes in cliche' Ducati red and a white on black frame, neither of which I particularly adore.  I typically go atypical with color, so I'm naturally averse to a red Ducati   That being said, my boss has a white Ducati and I kinda don't want to start a white Ducati bandwagon.  I also like the contrast of the red 797 compared to the white, and the more I see it the more it grows on me, but classic yellow would be much preferred.

The 797 is slightly smaller and lighter, which is a plus...

Hard call, but I'm leaning 821.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on May 22, 2019, 05:15:17 PM
Test road the Monster 821 and a Scrambler Icon.  I attempted to video record both of them, but my test ride of the Monster apparently didn't record and my ride of the Scrambler referenced it pretty heavily so I can't really share either, unfortunately.

The good news is I got a definitive opinion about them both.  They didn't have a Monster 797 to ride but with the same engine as the Scrambler I think I got enough of an idea about it to know what it's all about.

First of all the Scrambler.
In a word: disappointing.  Now let me clarify that a little; it was disappointing to me.  Overall it felt like a great bike, but like the 1100 there were a lot of things I would have to change about it to make it satisfactory as a daily riding machine.

The riding position is very upright, so much so that you really have to hang on when you put the power down.  You sit on top of the bike, and it feels very much like sitting on a chair.  In contrast, the Monster hangs on to you.  It's slightly leaned forward, the pegs are set higher and further back, when you put the power on you're already in the ideal position.
The seat was also quite firm, and in combination with the riding position you really feel a lot of the bumps and cracks in the road directly applied to your butt.  The Monster's suspension was a bit firmer, but while you felt the bumps and such a little bit more they were transferred to your springy arms and legs more than your rear.

The steering was quite interesting as well.  Both bikes felt very nimble, but the Scrambler felt less like it wanted to be in turns.  Once you put the Monster in the curve it was very much in the curve.  The Scrambler was like "ok, we're turning, but when are we done?"  It felt well planted and sure footed, but also felt like it naturally wanted to stand up, where as the Monster waited for you to tell it to stand back up.
Surprisingly, the Monster also seemed to do better at low speed.  U-turns felt to me like I could get a tighter corner on the Monster than on the Scrambler, despite expecting the opposite.
How much of it is personal bias from owning a Monster and knowing it's chassis compared to the Scrambler just being less willing to tighten up I can't say, I'd have to have someone else ride them side by side and tell me otherwise.
Could also be the result of that 18" front wheel.

Despite both being naked bikes, it also felt like the Scrambler experienced more wind buffeting, perhaps just a symptom of being more properly upright.

And the last thing was the engine.  It was very peppy and not too vibey, but it felt like it ran out of power too quickly.  When really launching from a stop it was pulling and then suddenly would hit the rev limit, which to me was a case of "we're shifting already?!"  It may just be the gearing.  The Scrambler is geared relatively low, and it's got good takeoff, but you expect it to pull longer than it does.
I guess it's a good sign that it seems to pull well 'till redline, but it just doesn't seem to give you that much feedback when you're winding it up.  Incredibly linear power delivery, if you ride it like a commuter it's a great feeling, but if you wind it out to have fun on it the bike seems to not really give you any kind of torque curve or sensation of a powerband.
It also felt a little lacking on the interstate.  It has good enough power, but the combination of the lower gearing, the lack of being able to feel a powerband, and the poor wind buffeting led to a bike that would be very fatiguing to ride any sort of distance on the highway.

Overall, I still thought it was a cool little bike, but for my wants/needs it fell far short of expectation.  I'll still recommend it to someone who wants exactly that: a Scrambler.  But, it's not for me.


The Monster, on the other hand, what a machine!  "Smooth" is a good word to describe it in just about every way.  Compared to the Scrambler I felt the seat was much softer, the riding position much more pleasurable, the acceleration much more effortless both in terms of the engine's willingness and in my body's reaction to it, and in overall handling.
It felt a lot more stable, both compared to the Scrambler and even to my Monster, but despite this stability it felt just as nimble and willing to turn as my Monster.
Part of that is due to the difference in tires, I'm sure.  My Monster uses a 160/60 rear, while the 821 I rode uses a 180/55.  The difference in sensation is quite profound.  Whereas my Monster feels like it want to fall effortlessly into the corners, this Monster feels like it wants to roll effortlessly into the corners.  That's not even a 100% apt way to put the feeling into words.  The bikes feel the same weight and require the same effort to "turn in," but my 750 is like "Turning! WOOO!  Aww YEEEah!" while the 821 is like "Sweet, we're getting curvy here."
Both are light and smooth and willing to turn, but the 750 just want's to jump in with both feet and the 821 is a little more... calculated?
Either way, it felt great!  Sometimes on my Monster it feels like if you let go in a corner the bike will keep leaning.  On the 821 it felt like if you let go it would hold the line.  Loved it!

The power was awesome too.  It never felt a lack of torque, even low in the RPM range.  A couple of 6th gear pulls I did with RPMs low, while not the most spectacular pull away, were smooth.  No low RPM shudders or struggling from the engine, just steady power.
That being said, right around 7-9K RPM you felt a little more start to come on, but it's not a large enough increase to catch you off guard.  It feels like you've got 80% power from the get-go and once you pass that threshold you've got 100%.  It's pulling hard from the start, and at that RPM the bike would, if it could, give you a wink and a nod and then give you just a little bit extra.

Suspension was stiff, but not uncomfortably so.  All the little bumps and cracks and such that I normally encounter were smooth enough, but some more cracked up pavement was a little jarring.  Due to the riding position it never really transferred to my body uncomfortably, however it was definitely a "sportier" ride than my 750 delivers.

Brakes were amazing.  Radial mounted Brembos, not much more to talk about.

All in all it felt very familiar to my Monster 750, but more refined, more powerful, dare I even say more comfortable?  It's pretty much what I expected, and riding it was the confirmation I needed to stick with the Monster platform.


Re: the 797, I don't think it would be as wise of an investment.  After riding the Scrambler and getting an idea of how that engine behaves, it would basically just be my bike.  Not that I'm unsatisfied with my 750, but it's not enough of an upgrade, I don't think.  If I were to put my 750 into a time altering device and bring it to 2019 it would be the 797.  Part of my wanting a new bike is to also get an upgrade, not just an update.
The 821 also has the rider modes, beautiful TFT display, and 3x the service interval, so I think it's well worth the extra $3k.


So I think an 821 is going to be my next bike.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: mr72 on May 23, 2019, 11:06:13 AM
Nice! Cool review too.

I agree the 797 is probably more of an updated version of your 750 rather than really an upgrade. If it were me I'd want to stick with air cooled but you can't really upgrade while doing that.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on May 23, 2019, 01:40:23 PM
Nice! Cool review too.

I agree the 797 is probably more of an updated version of your 750 rather than really an upgrade. If it were me I'd want to stick with air cooled but you can't really upgrade while doing that.

I do like the air cooled aspect, too, but the liquid cooling is higher performance.
And in this case going with the more technically advanced engine is yielding lower maintenance, so that's a plus.  Dealing with coolant once a year is a good trade-off for not dealing with valves once a year.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: mr72 on May 23, 2019, 05:47:24 PM
Yeah it's the dealing with loss of coolant in the field or the failure of a water pump that bothers me.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on May 23, 2019, 06:07:40 PM
Yeah it's the dealing with loss of coolant in the field or the failure of a water pump that bothers me.

I'm not usually out "in the field" though.

For a Scrambler or Desert Sled it makes 100% sense to avoid liquid cooling.
For a city bike it's not as big a concern.



I went ahead and uploaded my test ride of the Scrambler, in case anyone is interested in my opinion of it "in the moment".

Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: mr72 on May 24, 2019, 05:14:29 AM
I'm not usually out "in the field" though.

What I mean is at an unexpected time when you are not in your garage doing planned maintenance. Running one trip past a scheduled valve adjustment won't leave you stranded but the most minor of cooling system issues will. To me, water cooling on a motorcycle is just too much risk without sufficient benefit.

That said, my Triumph has a huge oil cooler with nearly the same risks of water cooling. The only consolation is that due to the risk of losing all of the oil in seconds they really beef up the lines and fittings to reduce the chances that getting knocked over while parked and landing against an object or kicked up road debris won't put a hole in the cooler or sever the lines. But radiators and hoses are rarely built this way. A split or cut radiator hose will end your ride just as much as a broken oil cooler line but manufacturers seem to regard it as an inconvenience rather than a disaster. If I'm 2 hours from home in the middle of the vast Texas ranchland or hill country and I have to get towed home, that's a disaster in my book regardless of if it's just coolant that got blown out or oil.

Anyway, sorry to rant on your thread. Truly I'm resigned to the fact that the next new motorcycle I will buy will likely be water cooled. I'm sort of in mourning about this reality. Long live air cooled motorcycles and their crazy frequent maintenance!
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on May 24, 2019, 10:17:20 AM
Anyway, sorry to rant on your thread.

No problem at all, I actually welcome it.  Any concerns you may have are good to consider for me, especially as a sole vehicle.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: mr72 on May 25, 2019, 06:20:14 AM
Any concerns you may have are good to consider for me, especially as a sole vehicle.

I didn't even think about that, but it's an excellent point. If I were in your position with a big wide open Western state to explore and only by bike to get me anywhere I think I'd have AAA who will bring coolant and I'd carry enough spare hoses and clamps as necessary plus probably some JB quick and duct tape to prepare for a roadside repair of a failed cooling system part. I'm just paranoid about cooling system issues from water cooled engines made by companies who have the bulk of their experience building air cooled engines after owning two water cooled VWs and an Audi all of which had one or another disastrous cooling failure way too often.

There's just no way to do preventative maintenance and avoid a piece of wire that gets thrown from the back of a truck and winds up ripping a coolant hose or a 1/2" lag bolt bouncing off the pavement that your radiator hits at 70mph. At least in a car these parts are more or less protected by bodywork, and you can carry spare coolant. I even added a mesh grille behind the open slots on my Jeep to keep rocks out of the radiator. Been stranded way too many times with anti freeze on the wrong side of the engine.

Don't get me wrong. For sure a water cooled engine is more durable and reliable over like 50k miles on average. But over a specific 50 mile ride, there's just more to break.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on May 29, 2019, 04:07:23 PM
I'm just paranoid about cooling system issues from water cooled engines made by companies who have the bulk of their experience building air cooled engines. after owning two water cooled VWs and an Audi all of which had one or another disastrous cooling failure way too often.

There's just no way to do preventative maintenance and avoid a piece of wire that gets thrown from the back of a truck and winds up ripping a coolant hose or a 1/2" lag bolt bouncing off the pavement that your radiator hits at 70mph.
Don't get me wrong. For sure a water cooled engine is more durable and reliable over like 50k miles on average. But over a specific 50 mile ride, there's just more to break.

I've never personally been stranded by a liquid cooled vehicle because of the cooling system, and my experience is with two Jeeps, a Hyundai, a VW, and my Honda CB500F.
Doesn't mean it won't ever happen, but I don't consider them inherently unreliable.
That being said, the only cooling issue I've ever run into was a stuck thermostat in my VW Golf.  Luckily it was stuck open, so it never resulted in an overheating condition.  Unluckily, it was the middle of Chicago winter and it meant I basically didn't have heat.


I guess it's always wise to consider Murphy's Law, but the idea of a piece of debris targeting the cooling system as an extra hazard is a little unwarranted to me.  I mean, my Monster has a "radiator" of sorts as it is, if you consider the massive oil-cooler up front.  It's been bashed by rocks and bugs and has some dings in it but nothing substantial, Ducati made it relatively beefy, presumably so in case it did get smacked by a rock it wouldn't immediately dump all the oil out.
Plus the way the Monster 821 has the coolant hoses routed they're behind the radiator on the left side of the engine, very much out of the way of impact from stones and stuff coming from the front.  A torn hose is an incredibly unlikely scenario.



Speaking of Murphy's Law, I scheduled someone to come test ride my Monster and in talking to him decided I should switch my bike from GP-shift back to a standard shift pattern.
While adjusting the linkage, this happened.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/921/xlDDSI.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plxlDDSIj)

The Duc must know I'm trying to sell it, lol!
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on June 06, 2019, 11:43:09 PM
Is it wrong of me to be selective with a buyer?  I mean, cash is cash, right?

Guy came and looked at it today, despite not having the linkage yet, and really wants to commit to buying it.  Everyone else who is interested wants to wait for me to get the parts, but he was anxious to see it so he came out tonight and looked at it, and he brought my asking price in cash.
But...  I don't know, I could have taken his money, given him the title, then let him know once the parts were in for pickup, but instead I told him to hang onto his cash for the time being until I got the parts because "I don't know how much longer it will be and I don't want to tie up your money with nothing to deliver..."

He was kind of janky; 100% squid, was slightly incoherent over the phone, and he showed up on a Buell Blast that was totally trashed.  Both fork seals blown and oil residue on the front tire, it was one of the worst rattle can paint jobs I've ever seen, the gauge was broken off and hanging by wires, the ignition wasn't attached to anything, missing half the intake system, and had bolt-on lights everywhere.
I made some jabs at it for being a Blast, how they weren't designed super great and how even Eric Buell himself hated them, and he got pretty defensive of it, saying how good of a bike it's been to him over the past year or so, how much he likes it, just a little down on power.
So I thought "It's not something he just bought as a fix-er-up-er?  Well then, if he ran that Blast into the ground he's probably gonna mistreat this classic Monster, too."

Is it selfish of me to turn down his money to make sure this bike goes to "a good home"?  I have at least half a dozen other interested parties, it won't be hard to find a buyer, but it also feels weird to tell the guy no "just because."

What do you all think?
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: mr72 on June 07, 2019, 06:10:58 AM
I'm totally with you BTW Watcher. But I guess I'm another Euro bike snob.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on June 07, 2019, 06:38:10 AM
I'm with you on that watcher.  If you have a bit of emotional attachment to your bike and you know the dude is going to molest it, I'd probably put him at the bottom of the list.  I think I've done that with every bike I've sold so far.  I hate to see bikes ruined by stupidity. 

I picked up a Voyager Xii parts bike recently and there were trinkets and leds and doodads (a bell on the rear bag support? :dunno_black:).  The wiring was  :2guns: and the back tire was bald.  I think the guy rode it till he had to change the tire and parked it til it wouldnt start again and that was it.  Poor bike
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: mr72 on June 07, 2019, 06:47:00 AM
I once actually pulled the emergency brake and removed the key in the middle of a test drive of my 240Z. Told the guy there was no way I was selling him the car and drove him back to his motorcycle with cash in his hand. I do admit though that half of that was because I thought he was going to kill us both during the test drive. However to this day I still regret selling that 240Z at all but I had little choice...
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: qcbaker on June 07, 2019, 07:06:06 AM
All this talk about janky Blasts makes me acutely aware of how much I'm procrastinating fixing and selling my Blast....

Anyway... Is it wrong of you to be selective with a buyer? Personally, I would say no. Its your bike, if you want it going to someone you're reasonably sure is going to treat it like you think it should be treated, you have the right to do that. You don't HAVE to sell it at all, much less sell it to any one particular person, especially if that person gives you a sketchy vibe. If you sell them the bike, and they get hurt or die because they neglected the bike to the point where its rideworthiness is in question, and you knew that was a possibility before you made the sale, you might feel at least partially responsible (even if technically it isn't your fault). So it could be argued that the safer option for everyone would be to just tell the guy that you got a better offer from another buyer. I think that sellers of any dangerous item have some level of responsibility to ensure that the buyer at the very least understands what they're getting into. And sometimes people SAY they understand, but their actions tell a different story.

You also asked if it was selfish to decline this sale. To that, I have to say: well, yeah. A little. You're depriving someone else the pleasure of owning and riding a great bike just because you want to feel good. But again, I don't necessarily think that's wrong. Maybe your decision not to sell actually is saving his life. Who can say? :dunno_black:
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on June 07, 2019, 12:04:45 PM
Thanks for the words, everyone.

I feel better about my decision here.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: ShowBizWolf on June 08, 2019, 08:53:22 AM
I'm a bit late to this party lol but I was VERY selective about who I sold my 1975 318 Valiant to. It was beautiful and only had ~50k miles on it. I did NOT want it to go to someone who was going to destroy it.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: IdaSuzi on June 08, 2019, 05:02:26 PM
This is a little late as well but I flip cars on the side for money and usually don't get too attached to the car's, except for a 1974 Chevy Nova that I put a lot of work into and it was in amazing shape but I sold it for college tuition. Still I found someone I knew would take care of it and not hoon it haha I do miss that car still
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on June 11, 2019, 02:31:02 PM
Well, the yellow bike is gone.  No more Monster 750.

Sold it to a "better" buyer and got my asking price.

Now to aquire something new!
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: qcbaker on June 12, 2019, 06:02:56 AM
Cant wait to see what you end up with!
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on June 12, 2019, 08:26:48 PM
A bike is on order!

It's going to be about a month before I get it, so you'll just have to wait patiently for the reveal.

It'll be worse for me...
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on June 28, 2019, 10:47:05 PM
OK, so it's not officially mine yet, but it IS reserved for me!  The quoted time of a month was a little heavy, and just this week I got a phone call that my bike has arrived!  The downside is, since I was planning on a month out I don't have all my ducks in a row quite yet so I'll need a few more weeks to save up more of a down payment and increase my credit just a little more.  No worries, they know my time frame and are being patient with me.

Anyway, I missed a chance meeting when the tech took the initial test-ride after building it.  He stopped by my shop to try and catch me but I wasn't working, but of course my coworker took a bunch of photos and blew my phone up just to tease me.
So I stopped into the dealership to see it for myself, play with it a little, and put some more money down on it.
So here is a teaser photo!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/YmmsLw.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poYmmsLwj)

It's a 2019 Monster 821 "Stealth", and it's the only one in Tucson!

Couple of extra exciting bits I didn't know about the bike I discovered in person, too.
So, the Stealth I thought was just a paint scheme.  It was ~$800 more than the "normal" versions, and I said "what the hell, it's unique and rare", and from my reading Ducati's relatively odd rewording of the specs compared to a "normal" 821 it seemed all identical other than, according to the photos, a factory matching flyscreen which is an almost $400 add-on for the base color versions.

Turns out the Stealth also has adjustable front suspension, which the "normal" ones do not and don't even get the option of.
Also, it has a factory quick shifter!  And it goes up and down!  Which is normally like a $300 add-on!

So yeah, I paid an extra $800 for a unique paint scheme, a major upgrade to the suspension, and what would normally be $700 worth of additional equipment.
Not a bad deal, all in all.

These next few weeks are going to be killer, knowing it's there waiting for me...
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: IdaSuzi on June 29, 2019, 11:19:45 AM
Congrats on the new bike! I love the Monsters and this one looks great  :thumb: I'm sure it was a pleasant surprise for you to find out your bike is not only a rare paint job but has a lot of useful additions. Enjoy and looking forward to how you like it your daily commuting etc.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: qcbaker on July 01, 2019, 06:15:47 AM
Very cool, Watcher! :thumb:

All this talk about janky Blasts makes me acutely aware of how much I'm procrastinating fixing and selling my Blast....

Update: I did an oil change on my Blast and discovered that it barely had any left in it. It has a minor oil leak on the bottom end and has sat for about a year, so I guess it just leaked out what little oil it had left over the last year. Guess I'm a little lucky I didn't ride it lol. Anyway, got the oil/filter changed, charged the battery, and after many failed attempts, got the bike to start and run. Took a few pics and posted it on craigslist. We'll see if it gets any attention at its current price and if not, I'll repost it for a bit cheaper. Wish me luck, GSfam.
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on July 01, 2019, 06:51:44 AM
Looks sweet watcher,..love me a gigantic looking tank,...!

glws  qcbaker!
Title: Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
Post by: Watcher on July 01, 2019, 12:27:14 PM
Looks sweet watcher,..love me a gigantic looking tank,...

Actually, the 821 for sure suffers from illusory proportions, just like my Buell did.
They look really big when you see pictures of them. Once you're next to one they're in reality quite small.

Here's a not so great photo of the guy who test rode it on it, to try and illustrate that.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/0PI6ZG.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pn0PI6ZGj)
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on July 11, 2019, 11:12:43 PM
Picked it up today!  Almost didn't happen.  I'll spare you the details but I ended up having to put down more cash than anticipated and was worried I'd have to push back the purchase until next month, but after some number crunching and some conceding to PBJ meals for the next couple of weeks I was able to just sneak it into the budget.

Here she is at home!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/921/5eFKBd.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pl5eFKBdj)

And here are some better photos from when the tech took his test ride over to my shop.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/8B3Ym9.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pn8B3Ym9j)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/921/KVbnUc.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plKVbnUcj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/tpkSzn.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmtpkSznj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/iZWGrc.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poiZWGrcj) (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/rLu8oG.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnrLu8oGj)


It's been an interesting experience, juggling bikes around for the past month or so.
I commented when I test rode the 821 that it felt like my Monster, just bigger and in some ways more refined.  I thought that having ridden a Kawasaki Z1000 for the past month it would feel quite alien hopping on the long awaited 821, but no, it felt natural to me, it felt nostalgic, it felt like, well, a Monster.  It was like picking up again with an old friend, changed by time but still the same soul.  It might take a minute to learn the fresh nuances, but at the core it's the same machine I know and love.  It's my M750, just... not...

And it is a very interesting juxtaposition, comparing it to that Z1000.
It got me to think:  The Japanese really are exceptional at making high quality, high performance machines, but it's rare they can encapsulate the whole "motorcycle experience" like the European's can.
If you want to go really really fast, go Japanese.  If you want to get there smoothly and with little effort, go Japanese.
If you want to ride a motorcycle, really ride a motorcycle, you'll be far better entertained by something made with a little less precision and a little more moxie.

One night with this new 821 and I know I made the right call, a CB650 might have been a great bike but ultimately may have been a little disappointing.
I quote RUSH in my signature, and I hold to that statement.
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on July 12, 2019, 06:41:59 AM
great review,...can you go win the latest picture game challenge now so we can do something new :laugh:
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: qcbaker on July 12, 2019, 06:47:55 AM
It got me to think:  The Japanese really are exceptional at making high quality, high performance machines, but it's rare they can encapsulate the whole "motorcycle experience" like the European's can.
If you want to go really really fast, go Japanese.  If you want to get there smoothly and with little effort, go Japanese.
If you want to ride a motorcycle, really ride a motorcycle, you'll be far better entertained by something made with a little less precision and a little more moxie.

Break out the Ducati Biscotti, you're a true Ducatista now. You've passed the point of no return lol.

All joking aside, very cool bike dude. Glad to hear you're liking it!

Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on July 12, 2019, 08:46:20 AM
great review,...can you go win the latest picture game challenge now so we can do something new :laugh:

I'm the one that proposed the current challenge, but I guess I could bend the rules to show off a little more  :laugh:
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on July 16, 2019, 03:04:36 PM
I dialed in the suspension a little bit, all it needed was a few turns more on the preload and it feels just about perfect!

Took it out for the first long leisurely ride to the local mountain to get a feel for it in the curves and ride it for a longer time frame.  I can't fully express how happy I am with it!  It's smooth, it rolls around the curves with grace, it feels planted and consistent at whatever speed I want to go, and the seating position is near perfect.
The seat is very well designed.  It's soft and grippy and contoured well, I didn't notice any seams after hours of sitting.  Not much room to move forward or backward, but that's not a problem in the least.  It holds you where you need to be, no fiddling around, it welcomes you directly to the optimal spot.  You don't slide back under heavy acceleration, you don't slide forward under hard braking, it's great!
It also has a lot more leg-room than my little 750 did, so my knees weren't as achy after the long ride.

Played around with the modes, got the traction control, ABS, and throttle response all where I like it.
Kept the Urban (rain) mode on full safety but turned off the engine governor in favor of just a smoother throttle curve.  Limiting the engine to 75HP was a jarring change when switching between the modes, I think the drastic difference in bike feel would be more a hindrance than the benefit of the limited power.  I'm experienced enough to handle the full 109HP in slick conditions, but a gentler throttle still makes sense.
Basically for Touring mode I kept that same smoother throttle, and halved the safety modes.  I can have a little more fun before the bike tries to limit me, but it's still a gentle reminder to take it easy, I'll likely make this my standard mode for commuting and what have you.
And for Sport, well, all bets are off!  Full engine power, quick throttle, NO traction control (so it will pick up the front end and allow for some backing it in), and the lowest ABS setting it offers (if I could turn ABS off I would have)!  The bike in this mode is, true to it's namesake, a total Monster!

Still feeling out the Pirelli Rosso III tires, though.  They feel good and grippy on the asphalt and I had full confidence in most conditions, but a few times I pushed the bike into a turn a little too far and crossed a paint-line it felt a little squirrelly.  It almost felt like the paint lines were wet, like just a touch slick, not enough to cause any issues, but enough for me to notice the change in road feel.  I've never had a tire feel like that in the dry before, and talking to my coworker he had the same experience on his Hypermotard with Rosso IIs.
With less than 200 miles on them I still consider them to be in need of proper scrubbing, but as of right now I'm looking forward to putting a set of Michelins on here.
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: pliskin on July 30, 2019, 12:50:22 PM
Ugly Duckling or Black Swan? Sorry, couldn't help it.
Anyway, I have a set of those Rosso's on my VFR. I get the same feedback sometimes. I think it's because they are hard compound in the middle and soft on on the sides. When you lean over that transition from hard/soft can feel strange. I will say they are wearing very well considering I'm a little hard on the throttle and don't carve much. Mostly straight highway commute miles. After about 2k miles I am seeing a slight flat spot form on the rear. The front still looks new.  Of the 3 sets of tires I've had on the VFR the Rosso's are my overall favorites.
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on July 30, 2019, 08:37:07 PM
I have a set of those Rosso's on my VFR. I get the same feedback sometimes. I think it's because they are hard compound in the middle and soft on on the sides. When you lean over that transition from hard/soft can feel strange.

Well, by comparison my last set of tires, and thusly the freshest in my experience, were a set of Michelin Road 5s.  They are also dual compound, and I never really felt the transition.  In truth, I don't feel the transition to the sides on the Rossos either, so I don't think it's in the compounding, necessarily.

The Road 5s never sketched me out on paint, though.  In truth, the Road 5s have been the most confidence inspiring tire I've ever ridden on, which is quite a statement.  They felt good going straight, when braking, when accelerating, when turning, when leaned over, when hot, when cold, in rain, in dry, in all conditions I've ridden in.  I've felt them slip, too.  Although it was rare I broke those Road's loose it felt very gradual and linear, giving me plenty of warning and time to react, and they never felt slick.

One thing I will say after mounting a set of the Rosso IIIs on a customer's wheels, the sidewall/carcass is much stiffer on the Pirellis than on the Michelins.  This might be the difference maker right there.  If the Road series has more flex a slight change in road surface might not translate all the way up through the bike to the rider, while a harder carcass will deliver more "feedback".  But how stiff a carcass is best may depend on the rider or the riding conditions.  I've heard that when Pirellis in general start to lose grip they don't translate that well, and tend to just grip until they don't.  It's more up to the rider to know the limit, whereas with the Michelins' softer carcass it seems to be a more gradual feel of it being at the limit, but it doesn't transfer the feeling of the road as much to the rider.
Perhaps for the street a softer carcass is better to absorb and grip onto more imperfections while for the track a harder carcass is better for "feeling" the tarmac.  I haven't explored it enough to say for sure.

What I can say for sure is as soon as I'm done with these Rosso IIIs I'll be putting on a set of Michelin Road 5s.
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on January 27, 2021, 07:11:39 PM
Well, it's been almost two years on the Monster and like clockwork I'm getting that new bike itch.

And my taste may have changed.  I'm looking at a Scrambler again.

It might actually be the same exact one I test rode two years ago, the shop is selling a black and orange 2018 1100 Sport, demo model, with about 1000 miles on it, but it's without the Termi pipe, for only $11k.
Way less than that $17k I was quoted way back.  Hell, with the factory Termi on it that would only raise the price another couple grand, and I could afford that.

The Monster...  Well, I still love it.  It rides great, the power is nice for a giggle but never too much, the suspension is firm and planted, and recently I let some coworkers take it for a spin and the sound that thing produces does strange things to me, lol!
It's just that needs may have changed, or needs have been more realized.

All I ever really do is commute.  I don't really do much sport riding anymore, and even when I ride the mountain for fun it's in a small group with coworkers who all have a mix of bikes and skill levels so we keep to a calm but spirited pace.  Regardless, I'm not really a sport rider anyway.  I like going quick, but I don't like really pushing my limits, and if I were to do that the Monster isn't the best choice for that, a used R6 or something would be better for that.
And there's also the fact that I'd like to dabble in some light off-road rides.  My coworker has an F850GS and rides on this ranch a whole lot, I'd like to join him, but I currently don't have the budget for a second motorcycle.
So, perhaps, trading in the Monster for a Scrambler would be the right move.

It would work just as well (maybe better) as a commuter, insurance would be cheaper, and I could take it on some fire roads here and there.  Not only that, but the style has really grown on me, and a slightly more upright posture wouldn't be a negative.

...

I need help either getting talked into or out of it.
That said, I'm gonna test ride it again tomorrow.  I know I wasn't entirely captivated by it previously but that said, I was looking at it through the lens of someone who wanted a hypernaked, not a scrambler.  If I ride it as a scrambler, perhaps my perception will be different.

...

Ok, so the "can't afford two bikes thing" may have been a bit of a lie.  I can't afford two $10k+ bikes, but I could always get a cheap dual purpose off the used market or a Honda Monkey or something.  That would satisfy my itch for dirt, while keeping my Monster for the street.
I was so enamored with the Monster at first I considered it perfect for me and a good forever bike.  I still do love it, but maybe it's not the best tool for the job.
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on January 28, 2021, 08:57:50 AM
Always enjoy reading your posts!  Honda Monkey would be great!  I ride my little 125 more than any of my other bikes.  It's just easy to ride, great for traffic and I love that chinese turd.  I can't say on your monster vs scrambler vs itch cause I've never dealership bought a bike but I'd really be up for a new gsxr if I did :tongue2:

    Be interesting to see what you do!

this (https://th.bing.com/th/id/R513f81885283994307a5f30e95ad7d3e?rik=1Y56dYTCWp0vsA&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.forcesofgeek.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2014%2f03%2fIyc3B7J.gif&ehk=zourOy%2bmeEywZv%2feJUDOk3cYPXLHZcVauGU4J9O1q7U%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw) that
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: mr72 on January 28, 2021, 09:10:15 AM
One thing to think about, and BTW this is why I am still hanging onto my ADV-converted GS500 rather than buying a Ducati Scrambler (800) myself, is that if you ride off road, even fire roads or those AZ sandy wash kind of things, eventually the bike is going to wind up laying down from time to time. So you might want to think twice about this being your main commuting/transportation bike, think twice about it being something with Ducati-priced parts to replace or live with scraped up or bent, or something that's as heavy to pick back up as a Scrambler 1100 (or one of those other big ADV type bikes ...).

So maybe the half measure is not something like a Honda Monkey, but more like a DRZ400, or a few years old CB500X if you want something a little more road-manners oriented. Or a V-Strom, if you need 70hp, even a V-Strom 1000. But a <500cc late model Japanese dual sport or adventure bike, or a 10 year old 650+, would probably give you that alternative you might want for fire roads etc. but something you wouldn't get so upset about when it went down and bent the handlebar or broke off a footpeg. Not only that, these ADV/DS bikes are designed to fall, be easily picked up, and not get damaged to the point that you can't ride them home. Heck, even my old & busted converted GS500 has been knocked over three or four times and the only casualties were turn signals and mirrors. If it scraped an engine case, I wouldn't even notice or care.
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on January 28, 2021, 03:17:27 PM
{snip}

I see where your coming from, a Ducati isn't cheap and it WILL get beat up on the trail.

But, at a certain point it has a charm to it.
Like the one in this video:


It's beat to HELL but it looks amazing!
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on January 28, 2021, 06:58:41 PM
Ok, so....

I have feelings.  Sorry if I ramble, but I need to get these thoughts on paper (interwebz).

I rode the 1100.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/kXoOsd.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmkXoOsdj)

It's an amazing bike.  It's handles like my Monster, but doesn't *feel* like my Monster.  Like, the engine is very similar, the brakes are nice, it's just as flickable/maneuverable, but the seat is a little more plush, the suspension is a little more plush, it has some more "premium" features like self cancelling turn signals and a hydraulic clutch and some other stuff, and overall it was a pleasure to ride.
Unlike my last test ride of it, I really went for it.  Previously I was being cautious and feeling the bike out, this time around I threw confidence at it and rode it like I'd ride it if it was mine, and it didn't disappoint.
The ONLY things I didn't like about it were the pegs were kinda in a spot where they hit my legs when I put my feet down, and I felt the exhaust wasn't loud enough despite being a Termignoni race system, but that likely has a baffle I could remove, so I guess the only thing I didn't like about it was the fact my legs hit the pegs.  But that's something I could get used to.

Things that were different: the way my Monster's seat and gas-tank are sculpted it feels like you sit "in" the bike rather than "on" it.  The Scrambler was very much a sit "on".  Not that that's a bad thing, but I felt a little less connected to it than my Monster.

Would it be a good Scrambler?  No doubt it could handle some light offroad riding, but it honestly felt a bit like it was wearing a facade.  Yeah the suspension was more plush than the Monster, yeah the tires are knobbier, yeah the bars and seating position are more upright, but I don't think it's a Scambler much more than in an aesthetic manner.  I could do offroad, but I'm not sure that I'd want to.  If I owned it I'd probably put a set of Road 5 GT tires on there and keep it street only, and at that point I only really have it for the aesthetic.

Would I ride one instead of my Monster?  Well sure, but it would be a direct replacement in the role my Monster has rather than an expansion, which is part of what I wanted to begin with.

Can I get it?  Trade in on my Monster was valued at $8600.  I still owe some ~$7000, so I only have about a $1600 trade-in credit.  Out the door on the 1100 with the Termi was about $12k, *including* my trade-in credit, and I have some $2-3k I can put down, so I'd essentially be in a loan for about $9-10K.  If this was two years ago and I didn't have a bike already, I'd say yes.  But as is I'm essentially putting myself back into the same position I was two years ago, just with a different bike.  Not necessarily a bad thing, I can afford it, but it would be hard for me to call it the right move, especially because I'm trying to diversify my riding style.

Wildcard.  Scrambler 800 Icon.  While I was talking numbers with the salesman he mentioned they had a demo of the 800 Icon they were selling for $7k.  With less than an hour until close, I threw a leg over that and just went for it.

Oh man, now THAT is the bike!  The bars are taller so you can stand on it easier, the seat is lower so you feel more planted when stopped or walking with the bike, it has more suspension travel than even the 1100 does, but about the same ground clearance.  It's less powerful, but it's lighter weight.  It's less fancy, but it's way cheaper!  Just as nimble feeling, and no pegs in the way when stopped, either.  It doesn't feel like a street bike in Scrambler dress, it feels like an honest Scrambler!  The switches and electrics overall felt cheaper, but whatever.
Just like the 1100, I babied that thing on the first test ride.  This time around, I was bouncing it off the rev limiter and bunny-hopping it off of speed bumps.  Treated the throttle like an on/off switch, and squeezed hard on the brakes, and it was a blast!  If my goal is to get something I could commute on AND take on a fire road, and not worry about if it gets smacked around, THIS is the bike!  Bonus points, it's yellow!

(https://cdn.dealerspike.com/imglib/v1/800x600/imglib/Assets/Inventory/55/5F/555F0ECF-1C97-4DFE-8742-88405EE6C921.jpg)

With the 1100 I made it back to the dealership contented that it could replace my Monster.  With the Icon I came back smiling, wondering if I could afford it outright!
So, can I?  Honestly, probably!  My quote was about $8.8 out the door, if I put that same $2-3k down I only need to finance ~$5k.  That would mean, in total, I'd be in debt ~$12k instead of ~$10k, but it would be for TWO bikes rather than just one!

Oh man, I am the most tempted I've been so far.

Secondary option for the Icon, my co-worker suggested to me I trade the Monster for the Icon.  They're about equal value, so in a nutshell I'd continue to owe about the same as I owe on the Monster, only instead of a Monster I'd have the Icon.  That's tempting, and since it would be refinanced I'd possibly have a cheaper monthly, and since it's a lesser bike I'd have a cheaper insurance charge, and overall I'd save more money, I could outright own it sooner, and I could save some extra cash on the side for something else entirely.
But now I'm afraid lacking a sport style bike would be a detriment.  I mean, I still love that Monster, and where the Icon falls flat is overall speed and interstate performance.  On the ride home even after the high of riding a new bike the Monster felt, well, perfect.  It was comfortable, planted, and powerful.  A great choice for smoother roads and riding the mountain, but that's not to say the Icon isn't bad in those environments either...

Hell, I had more fun on that Icon in a 20 minute test ride than I had previously all that week!  That same co-worker who suggested I trade the Monster for the Icon did kind of the same thing I was looking at doing.  He has a Z1000 (I borrowed it for a while) and got a Husqvarna 701 supermoto.  I loves that Z1000 as I love my Monster, but for his daily ride, for fun, and for overall capability, he prefers the 701 totally.  He's debated selling that Z1000 so many times, ultimately refusing to only because he's emotionally attached to it, but he never rides it anymore.
This is the position from which hes recommending I trade the Monster for the Icon.  He says I probably won't ride the Monster anymore.
I'd like to say he's wrong, but if he's right the smart thing to do would be to follow his advice and trade the Monster for the Icon.


...

I just don't know.
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: mr72 on January 29, 2021, 05:40:57 AM
To throw a wrench in this thing, you know you can probably find a used Scrambler 800 for $6K or less, I see them all the time, with like 1200 miles on it. Then you could probably wind up with two bikes for little more than you are paying for the one.

I seriously considered the Scrambler 800 when I bought my Triumph and right now I am highly tempted to get one in addition to the Triumph. If the economy doesn't go awful this year then I'd say there's a fair chance I will think real hard about buying one to add to the garage.

Anyway, if you recall, I suggested you check out a Scrambler 800 before you bought the M821. I think they are a terrific balance. I can't imagine you really need more power for the highway... that thing is like 80 lb lighter than my Triumph and has about the same power, and my Triumph is just fine on the highway as long as you can handle the wind.

The grandad in me also would like to see my friends who are younger than me find their way in less debt. It's something I wish I had done when I was younger. If you have a chance to have less motorcycle debt, I'd say go for it. You can always buy another Monster or a sportbike used for part-time use. Why not get a GSXR or R6 to scratch the 100hp sportbike itch, something you can get for $4k all day long used, with that cash you have in your pocket, and lower your payments with the daily driver Scrambler that does 95% of what you want it to do right now?
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on January 29, 2021, 10:50:40 AM
To throw a wrench in this thing, you know you can probably find a used Scrambler 800 for $6K or less, I see them all the time, with like 1200 miles on it. Then you could probably wind up with two bikes for little more than you are paying for the one.

You're not wrong, but right now there's nothing.  The Scrambler is a pretty popular bike, but owners tend to hold on to them.  I've only ever seen a handful of Scramblers for sale on the used market, and they all wanted about what I'd be paying for a "new" one.

I seriously considered the Scrambler 800 when I bought my Triumph and right now I am highly tempted to get one in addition to the Triumph. If the economy doesn't go awful this year then I'd say there's a fair chance I will think real hard about buying one to add to the garage.

Anyway, if you recall, I suggested you check out a Scrambler 800 before you bought the M821. I think they are a terrific balance. I can't imagine you really need more power for the highway... that thing is like 80 lb lighter than my Triumph and has about the same power, and my Triumph is just fine on the highway as long as you can handle the wind.

I've never ridden a Triumph Scrambler.  On paper they do seem overall lesser in performance, but ultimately my love affair with bikes from Bologna is drawing me to one brand in particular.
I remember your suggestion, and at the time I think I didn't know that I actually wanted one.  Sounds a bit funny to say, but I remember being unimpressed with it at the time.  At the time I was also comparing it to, like, a Z650, a Honda CB650R, my M750, an SV650, etc.  It's a bike that falls short as a sport-naked, but it's categorically wrong to compare it so.  When I rode the M821 after riding some scramblers and stuff the choice was obvious.  Now that I am looking specifically for a Scrambler, the bike is totally different.  Maybe you're right that it can do highway ok, I didn't think to take it on the interstate during my demo because I had limited time.

The grandad in me also would like to see my friends who are younger than me find their way in less debt. It's something I wish I had done when I was younger. If you have a chance to have less motorcycle debt, I'd say go for it. You can always buy another Monster or a sportbike used for part-time use. Why not get a GSXR or R6 to scratch the 100hp sportbike itch, something you can get for $4k all day long used, with that cash you have in your pocket, and lower your payments with the daily driver Scrambler that does 95% of what you want it to do right now?

Maybe that is the smart move, but I can't shake the feeling I'll just miss the 821 too much.  Used Monsters are actually more plentiful than used Scramblers, with prices averaging $6-$7k.  So I could always just save up and buy another Monster in a few years if I think trading it was the wrong move.  But if that's what ends up happening it really wasn't the best thing to sell my Monster to begin with.
Also, seeing as I don't really have much equity in my 821 yet I don't feel like getting rid of it now is the smartest move either.  If my trade in credit is $8.6 I imagine the actual value of the bike is at least $10.  I can keep paying it down, and if I end up wanting to get rid of the Monster it'll be just that much more valuable to me.  I'm paying it off faster than it is depreciating, after all.
Yeah, being in debt isn't great, but it isn't the end of the world either.  I'm comfortably saving money even while paying off my 821, all the while I'm building valuable credit.  Suffice to say I can afford to have two loans.

...
Argh, maybe the trade-in is the right move.  I can already see the Scrambler as the choice commuter, and seeing as my riding these days is mostly commuting the Scrambler will definitely satisfy my needs just as well as the Monster does, even if the Monster satisfies a want the Scrambler might not be able to.  Then if I decide letting go of the Monster was the wrong move I can look at getting a different bike in the future.

Here I go flip-flopping again...
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: mr72 on January 29, 2021, 12:03:59 PM
I've never ridden a Triumph Scrambler.  On paper they do seem overall lesser in performance,

Oh I was talking about a Ducati Scrambler. I'd never consider a Triumph Scrambler. I know a lot of folks love them but there's just stuff wrong IMHO. It's 100 lb heavier than the Ducati with considerably less power and a whole lot more shiny bits to get scuffed and broken. And if you're into that kind of bike, a Bonneville is just a better version of the same thing.


Quote
I remember your suggestion, and at the time I think I didn't know that I actually wanted one.  Sounds a bit funny to say, but I remember being unimpressed with it at the time.

Well, in all honesty, if you were cross-shopping it against a bike that was $5K more expensive, it's hard to see why you'd pick the Scrambler. ISTR you were also underwhelmed with the M801 which has the same engine and very similar chassis to the Scrambler 800. My guess is you were just looking for a much bigger jump in performance vs. your old 750.

Anyway, I can't really tell you what to do :) If it was me, I think I'd decide what bike I would use most often and bet everything on that, and invest only disposable cash into the part-time use bike. Hey wait, that's exactly what I did :). But I still think it's a good idea. Sounds like you really enjoyed the cheaper Ducati, and like you say you can always get another Monster.
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on January 29, 2021, 12:42:41 PM
Anyway, I can't really tell you what to do :) If it was me, I think I'd decide what bike I would use most often and bet everything on that, and invest only disposable cash into the part-time use bike. Hey wait, that's exactly what I did :). But I still think it's a good idea. Sounds like you really enjoyed the cheaper Ducati, and like you say you can always get another Monster.

I appreciate your input.  Everyone on this forum I think gives good honest feedback.  If I didn't think so I wouldn't have stuck around despite being {counts on fingers} almost 5 bikes removed from a GS500, lol!
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: mr72 on February 01, 2021, 09:25:20 AM
Well I have not owned 5 motorcycles in my entire lifetime. So I'm sure you know a lot more about this than I do.

My MO is to spend a long time making up my mind about what I want, doing lots of research and planning, often for years, before making a purchase. But I always go in knowing that whatever thing it is I wind up with is not likely to be 100% perfect, so modification, adapting it exactly to my needs, is always part of the equation. This is not just for my motorcycles but everything else in my life. As a result, I wind up with well researched stuff that is close to perfect for my needs and then as the years go by it becomes more and more tailored to my needs. I try to be honest about my own needs and use and get precisely what fits it, nothing less and nothing more. Usually the only times I don't follow this, I wind up cheaping out and wasting money on something that turned out to be inadequate (kind of like my GS500... but it definitely served its purpose at the time). But I realize not everyone makes choices this way.
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on February 02, 2021, 06:00:35 PM
I tend to both fly by the seat of my pants and research stuff to death, lol.
I'm a little more aggressive at it.

Like, something will catch my attention and I'll get hype on it and go all Hackerman and computer research the hell out of it, then come to a conclusion.

For instance, I've already considered crossing off the Scrambler 800.  At least this specific one.  Pre 2019 800s use crappy switchgear, it's a common issue for people to lose their turn signal switch mid ride, and I discovered I had trouble cancelling it on my test ride after reviewing the video I took.
Could be a non-issue for me, could just be a training work around, but it makes me less inclined to trade my Monster in for it.
Maybe I still want it in addition to, though...

But sometimes you don't know if the thing is perfect until you live with it.
In the case of motorcycles, I'll test ride something and like it, then get it, and I won't find out until months later I dislike X Y or Z about it and decide to move on.

In the case of why I've gone through so many; my first bike, GS650, I liked the aethetic of but it wasn't comfortable for long rides, I didn't find out until I owned it for a few months.  My first GS I liked but I lost my job and had to sell it.  My second GS I crashed and it turned into a project so I sold it.  Both of those I had for around a year each.
My CB500 I strategically sold to move to AZ.  My Buell was fun but a bad commuter, it lasted my about 9 months and I decided it wasn't for me.
My M750 was amazing but dated.  I had it for two years and decided I wanted something more modern.  My M821 is amazing but my needs are evolving.  It's going on two years on my 821.


Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: Watcher on February 11, 2021, 05:11:02 PM
So, the excitement died down and I decided not to make a move.  The best thing I can do right now is continue to pay down my Monster.

I mentioned I had a few grand saved up, I can find some other better uses for it.  I still need a 4-wheeled vehicle of some kind, or maybe I can find something cheap on the used market (like a DRZ) that can scratch my dirt itch.
Title: Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
Post by: mr72 on February 12, 2021, 06:40:28 AM
That's not as fun, but it sounds like the wise choice.