Author Topic: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"  (Read 44208 times)

Offline Bluesmudge

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #300 on: April 05, 2021, 10:56:34 AM »

But modern bikes are just freaking heavy.

Manufacturers just started being more honest with the "ready to ride" weight. Kawasaki published the dry weight of the pre '07 KLR as 337 lbs but the actual curb weight was 417 lbs. Suzuki used to say a DR650 weighed 324 lbs but now despite no changes to the bike since 1996 it weighs 366. Where did those 42 lbs come from? I would be skeptical of even the newer published wet weights but at least its closer to reality.

Wet weight of 1999 GS500E: 401 lbs         Dry weight of 1999 GS500E: 373 lbs
We weight of 2021 CB500F:   418 lbs         Dry weight of 2021 CB500F: 382 lbs

The GS500 is 17 lbs lighter "ready to ride." So its not a night and day difference when you consider that you are getting a couple more horsepower and bigger/better suspension and tires on the modern CB. Plus the CB is less polluting, gets better fuel economy, and is virtually maintenance free compared to the GS500.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 11:12:22 AM by Bluesmudge »

Offline mr72

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #301 on: April 05, 2021, 01:00:19 PM »
The GS500 is 17 lbs lighter "ready to ride." So its not a night and day difference when you consider that you are getting a couple more horsepower and bigger/better suspension and tires on the modern CB. Plus the CB is less polluting, gets better fuel economy, and is virtually maintenance free compared to the GS500.

Ah but I was talking about the CB500X compared with my particular (Lightness Added [TM]) GS500. The X is 434 lb. And my GS is a few lb below the standard E weight, even if just for the removal of the center stand, the alloy handlebar and the compact muffler.

And I prefer my imagination to the facts any day!!

tee hee.

I just actually think the CB500X looks dumb and I totally am not into water cooled motorcycles. Just seems wrong! But if I were buying a new motorcycle to replace my GS, it would probably be a CB500X. And I'd find a way to get rid of that 40 lb! And the beak!
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 01:01:53 PM by mr72 »

Offline The Buddha

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #302 on: April 12, 2021, 06:06:08 AM »

Surprised your Bolt has carbs! Isn't that like a 2018 model or something?


No it is FI. The Bolt was made 14 on with what was called a "base" model, and in 15 they made a "cafe" so it became C spec and the original became R spec, all are FI.
My SCR950 was a 1 year only 2017 which is a bunch of crap bolted onto a bolt.
I unbolted it and put C spec cafe bars on it but have an R spec seat cos the high and hard C spec didn't look right to me nor is it very comfortable. SCR foot peg and C spec foot pegs are the same position, R spec is well forward like a cruiser but the freaking air box will kill your knees.
Mine has alloy but spoked rims the only model to have that, and it used to be a $1000+ "accessory" for the steel version for the bolt. Mine has 17 rear while that was 15.
Yamaha bolted 1000's worth of crap onto a bolt and turned a bike they could not keep in stock at $7,999 to one they could not give away @3,999. Mine cost me $4599 cos the dealer wouldn't budge, and I didn't want to drive 800 miles to get it.
Yamaha held a contest between 15 bike builders, and Hagerman won that and they copied a lot of that into the SCR and somehow managed to screw it up so badly ... In fact there were Hagerman conversion kits floating around that people bought for the bolt.
Anyway its a fine bike, but getting performance out if it is impossible. Not very very hard - Impossible. Or atleast not without fabricating a new intake manifold. You can bore it, do heads, do pipe etc etc but the intake effectively will kill all the gains. There is a tight ~120 degree bend in the manifold with the front and rear cyls facing each other on the left side and fed by the manifold which runs from the right side. A harley style Y manifold fitted to the left side would leave the FI and throttle bodies so high and so far outside it will be next to the tank. Stupid design. IMHO just lighten a few things like tossing the tail hoop, exhaust can and a few other parts and ride on. Even tossing the airbox gets you very little, people remap the ECU again very little gain, but it clean up a little in the mid range.
Sorry about the book I wrote, but I am in a dumb meeting and bored as Fcuk.
Cool.
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« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 06:12:58 AM by The Buddha »
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Offline mr72

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #303 on: September 08, 2021, 08:10:19 AM »
Early in the summer I changed the fork seals and fork oil, and they have been leaking like a mother ever since. In fact, it drips fork oil from the seals while the bike is sitting parked, which makes no sense to me. It even leaked enough oil while parked to foul the brake pads.

Anyone have a clue why the forks would leak while the bike just sits?

This coming weekend I am going to take it apart again and replace the seals again, change the oil again. I need a reason to ride my GS. This leaking fork thing is a big reason not to.

Offline ShowBizWolf

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #304 on: September 08, 2021, 06:36:09 PM »
My bike's original set of forks would leak while the bike was parked. It had bent forks and unknown seals (age, installed correctly/incorrectly, brand.)

Then I bought a used set of forks from weedahoe. He assured me they weren't bent but here again, I didn't know the details about the seals. Those forks leaked while my bike was parked. I replaced the seals with aftermarket (cheap ones but installed correctly unlike what the Clymer Manual tells you to do) and within a week it was doing the same thing. Any imperfections on the chrome tubes was minimal at best but I was still concerned that it was a contributing factor.

Those events prompted me to build a completely different set of forks with new tubes and OEM Suzuki seals. Here I am over 3 years later with no more leaks.

Not sure if any of that will help you troubleshoot but I certainly understand your frustration.
Superbike bars, '04 GSXR headlight & cowl, DRZ signals, 1/2" fork brace, 'Busa fender, stainless exhaust & brake lines, belly pan, LED dash & brake bulbs, 140/80 rear hoop, F tail lens, SV650 shock, Bandit400 hugger, aluminum heel guards & pegs, fork preload adjusters, .75 SonicSprings, heated grips

Offline mr72

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #305 on: September 09, 2021, 05:11:00 AM »
You're not the first to suggest bent forks could be the cause, sbw. Thanks for the insight. It still mystifies me since for years they didn't leak, then one started to leak a little bit, and after I changed the seals, they both leak a lot. Logic tells me I did something wrong on the repair. So I'm going to redo it and see what happens.

Offline The Buddha

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #306 on: September 09, 2021, 06:47:28 AM »
It may have not leaked cos the fluid was very very low.

The 2 copper bushings in the thing with a oil wicking coating, you need to either replace them or get them recoated. But the GS forks are so poor quality you can end up with leaking forks regardless of what you did.

The fork leg is probably too far under the acceptable size for the oil seal.

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Offline mr72

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #307 on: September 09, 2021, 08:53:12 AM »
It's possible the fluid was low. I didn't measure it before draining it.

Also I think I overfilled it when replacing the seals, and rode it some before taking some oil out. I wonder if that didn't knock the seals out of their spot and it's leaking around the outside of the seal, not around the stanction.

Probably will never know the cause, assuming replacing the seals and oil again fixes it.

Offline The Buddha

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #308 on: September 09, 2021, 09:30:06 AM »
It's possible the fluid was low. I didn't measure it before draining it.

Also I think I overfilled it when replacing the seals, and rode it some before taking some oil out. I wonder if that didn't knock the seals out of their spot and it's leaking around the outside of the seal, not around the stanction.

Probably will never know the cause, assuming replacing the seals and oil again fixes it.

Leaking on the outside of the seal ??? OK That's a first. You clean that area on the leg ? You oil the seal before install ? Because if you slammed a dry seal into the fork leg, I believe the outside of the seal is a thin aluminum sleeve - you have aluminum on aluminum dry and something may have scratched up something.

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Offline mr72

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #309 on: September 09, 2021, 12:25:44 PM »
I am guessing bottoming on the oil may have pushed the seal out of its channel a little, enough for it to leak. Will know more in 48 hours.

I used grease on the seal before installing. There was no kind of thin aluminum sleeve... the seal is just a normal rubber seal. ??

There are no visible flaws or scratches on the fork tubes. They look perfect.

Offline The Buddha

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #310 on: September 10, 2021, 02:10:33 AM »
I'm trying to remember, the outside rim of the seal is metal isn't it.
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Offline mr72

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #311 on: September 10, 2021, 05:15:11 AM »
There wasn't any exposed metal on these seals, or on the ones that came out. Rubber on the outside.

Offline mr72

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #312 on: September 13, 2021, 06:03:49 AM »
So, I replaced the seals and oil over the weekend. I think there were basically two problems with the old seals. #1, I think I may have damaged them with my seal driver tool. And #2, the left side was not fully seated, that's the one that was leaking a ton.

The new seals went in much easier. I made up a new seal driver tool and the right side set in just fine and everything went together beautifully. The left leg, not so much. Took a small sledge hammer to drive the seal in, and it still leaks a tiny bit. Not enough to worry about, so it seems. Just seeping. The right side doesn't leak at all. So I'm going to make up a neoprene boot to put over some foam rubber "sweat band" on the left side to soak up the leaking oil and keep it off of the brake.

Bad news is, my brand new brake pads were fouled. They had like 1 mile on them.

Offline The Buddha

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #313 on: September 13, 2021, 09:45:00 AM »
The pads will be OK. Just 1 heat cycle - Take to a parking lot and get em hot. You'd get the oil burnt off.
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Offline mr72

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #314 on: September 13, 2021, 10:45:17 AM »
I rode it about five miles with a bunch of hard stops and still they don't work. Had this same problem on my Triumph after the wreck, pads were soaked in fork oil, couldn't get them to recover. I even soaked the Triumph pads in brake cleaner in effort to get the oil to come out.

I think the HH pads might just be more porous and absorb more oil than old school organic or semi-metallic pads. I ordered organic pads to replace them. I may try to clean the HHs with brake cleaner but it's just a sure thing to replace the pads and only $25.

Went out this morning and it is seeping a little bit of oil down the left fork leg when left parked for hours. Not nearly enough to make it to the brake side, but it will need something to mop it up on the regular.

When I went to test ride yesterday, it ran like garbage at low throttle/low revs until it was completely warmed up. Something still is not right with the carbs. Once it was warmed up properly it was fine but that took like 5 miles on the road to get that way, and it was 90 degrees out. Can't imagine riding this in the cold.

Offline mr72

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #315 on: September 27, 2021, 04:37:37 AM »
Yesterday I went to test ride and try carb tuning. I had made up a little neoprene boot /wiper to keep fork oil off the brake and replaced the pads up front. After a test ride on the new brake pad it was still not what I expected so I bled the brake and wound up replacing most of the fluid, but it still doesn't feel like it should, but at least it works now.

Went on a 30 minute ride and eventually it was warmed up enough so the running problem was mostly just a stumble at low RPM. I left it running and adjusted the pilot mixture. I noticed fuel leaking on the left side which I had previously thought was coming from the carbs before I rebuild them, but now I'm pretty sure it is coming from the petcock, either the part itself or the fuel line. The left carb seems unresponsive to mixture adjustment on the side stand, but I did find the sweet spot on the right, which was way richer than I had it. And my starting point was like 3 turn out! I haven't counted turns yet, but I am guessing it's nearly 4 turns. I plan to count turns and make the left carb match. Test ride confirms it runs nearly right, still a little stumble at low revs but at least it's rideable. I wonder if air is not getting into the fuel line where the petcock is leaking.

One bit of good news, the thing runs like a banshee on main jet. Screams right up to 11k. It crackles an pops a lot on decel, so I am surprised the police didn't stop me hole test riding in the neighborhood.

Offline mr72

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Re: mr72's '92 project - "Renegade"
« Reply #316 on: October 18, 2021, 06:49:04 AM »
I replaced the petcock with a manual petcock. Had running issues on the first test ride, because I was dumb and decided to risk putting in a fuel filter at the same time, and it wouldn't flow fuel through the filter so I nearly had to walk the bike home when I test rode it. So I replaced the length of fuel hose with a new one, no fuel filter, then started it up and it was still running like garbage but I figured I'd let it warm up on the side stand for a minute while I grabbed my helmet to go on a test ride. Of course, it walked itself off the side stand and fell over on the street, stripped the gear lever pivot mount, broke one of the Rox-ripoff handlebar risers, and bent the gear lever a lot.

So I now get to do a lot more repairs. I straightened the gear lever enough to put it in gear so I could at least get it back up into the garage, but then I needed to figure out what was wrong with the running because it just won't take off from a start unless you rev it to like 8K before releasing the clutch. It is clearly running on only one cylinder until it gets on the main jet. Pretty sure one of the pilot jets got clogged between last time I rode it and now, which seems impossible but that is what it is.

So I get to take it all apart again and clean the carbs again, even though it hasn't gone even 20 miles since a full carb rebuild.

Right now, I just hate this motorcycle. A lot. If I get it running and working, I might just sell it before it grenades itself again. I have had it with this. Running correctly, I figure I can get $2K for it just like it is. There's a lot of other stuff I'd rather have for that $2K right now.


 

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