Author Topic: New bike time! (Monster 821!)  (Read 8480 times)

Offline Watcher

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New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« on: May 05, 2019, 09:55:48 PM »
Has anyone ridden a CB650?
I'm really liking the look and the specs.  Might get one.

The CBR650F is a lot more common, and while the CB is basically just the CBR with no fairings I'd rather get a direct opinion of the CB.


A coworker is trying to get me to buy his Z1000 which he doesn't ride anymore.  I'm also at a state where I'm thinking of selling the Monster again.
The Z is simply incredible, but it's way more bike than is necessary and totally impractical, so I don't particularly want the Z, but after riding a non super-sport tuned 4-cylinder I do think I want to try that engine configuration.
Not many choices in a 600-800cc 4-cylinder naked.
CB650F, Yamaha FZ8 (if you can find one), older FZ6 (meh), Suzuki GSXS series, older Suzuki Bandit...  Is that it?

What I might do is see if I can rent the Z for a month or two to sell the Duc, so that way I've got something to ride in the mean time, then I can use the Duc money to put towards a purchase of something new.
Sucks Honda doesn't really do the "demo ride" thing like everyone else does.  I can test ride anything from the other 3 Japanese brands but not Honda.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 09:58:32 PM by Watcher »
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Offline IdaSuzi

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2019, 11:20:04 PM »
Hopefully we have someone who has actually ridden one. But for me from a specs standpoint the cb650 is a bit of a disappoinment. It's a meager 50$ less than the GSXS-750 which has more features, 30+ more hp, and only weighs 11 lbs more than the CB. I suppose the heavy weight, price and only 80 hp from an I-4 engine are the disappointment for me. I'll be looking at this category used in a year or two and I have it narrowed to the FZ-09, GSX-S750, and maybe the Triumph Street Triple. However if Suzuki put the DL1000 engine in the new SV and brought back a new naked SV1000 then I would buy that in a heartbeat.
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Offline IdaSuzi

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2019, 11:23:52 PM »
Forgot to mention the Z900 which while a little out of your cc range is only about 10 peak hp above the GSX-S750, and they make the retro Z-900 RS if that is your cup of tea
1998 RM125
1995 RM250
1999 Yamaha Banshee (Kind of a bike???)
1993 DR350
2008 GS500F naked conversion, Kat 600 shock, Yoshi Slip On, Progressive Springs, 20/62.5/140 rejet, Fenderectomy, LED Front and Rear Signals

Offline mr72

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2019, 05:14:13 AM »
I'd be far more interested in a Street Triple. Or even a Yamaha XSR700 or MT-07. The Honda just seems awfully heavy for what you get. That's nearly as heavy as my triumph and maybe only 5 more HP. But hey, IDK what you are really looking for. You had a cb500f right? So the new cb might be a natural progression. If it weren't such a long ride I would be interested in your Ducati.

Offline Watcher

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2019, 12:31:17 PM »
I love the look of the XSR but the deal breaker for me is the aluminum gas tank.

I need to be able to use a tank-bag.  That kinda rules out the Z650, too, it's kinda cramped up front.


Also not stoked on the Suzukis.  The modern GSXR has kinda crap electrics, the GSXS may follow suit.

Z900 has the same issues as the Z1000/Z650.  Overpowered and not practical, not great for luggage.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 12:33:11 PM by Watcher »
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Offline Bluesmudge

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2019, 01:58:36 PM »
I love the look of the XSR but the deal breaker for me is the aluminum gas tank.

I need to be able to use a tank-bag.  That kinda rules out the Z650, too, it's kinda cramped up front.


Don't let a aluminum or plastic tank stop you. There are many tankbag options besides magnetic.
Obviously some that mount with straps.
You can also use something like the Cortech Dryver ring (https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/cortech-ring-mount-for-dryver-tank-bag) to mount a small Pelican case, or screw it into a plastic cutting board in the bottom of your favorite magnetic tank bag.
Also, Bagster and Top Sellerie make tank covers with integrated clips for their tank bags.

Offline Watcher

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2019, 06:42:25 PM »
If I didn't already have like $300 worth of magnetic tank bags maybe I would be more inclined to say F it and get a Givi or SW Motech tank-ring bag.

When I had my Buell it kinda sucked.  I did find a bag I liked but options were limited, and the straps we're a pain to deal with, especially if I wanted to remove them and not use the bag that day.
If the bag stayed on the bike permanently maybe it'd be a different story.
It's part of why I decided to sell the Buell.



The 80HP figure to me isn't a deal breaker.  My Buell had a claimed 100HP and to me that was overkill.  It's still more than my Duc makes, too, as that's just a meager 60HP out of it's carburetted air-cooled twin.
So for me it would still be an upgrade.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 06:43:27 PM by Watcher »
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Offline mr72

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2019, 04:50:05 AM »
If I didn't already have like $300 worth of magnetic tank bags maybe I would be more inclined to say F it and get a Givi or SW Motech tank-ring bag.
...
The 80HP figure to me isn't a deal breaker.  My Buell had a claimed 100HP and to me that was overkill.  It's still more than my Duc makes, too, as that's just a meager 60HP out of it's carburetted air-cooled twin.

So a MT-07 or XSR700 makes nearly as much power, probably more torque in a usable range being a twin rather than a four-cylinder, has better suspension and is at least 50-60 lb lighter, maybe more. IMHO the XSR also looks a lot better, but it may be a hair more expensive. Give it a look? For that matter a Ducati Scrambler is also in that 70-75hp range, also in the 380-lb range, has ABS and other fun features (but an alu tank...), and costs about the same as the Yamaha but likely a lot more expensive to maintain.

Regarding your bag, I wonder if you wouldn't just be happier in general with a fixed top case or even one pannier. FWIW I have a single LH side pannier on the Triumph (a RH bag would interfere with the exhaust). I take it on and off the bike sometimes, mostly when I'm parked outdoors and I think it might rain, since the bag is not strictly waterproof (leather..). The GS has a cheap scooter-type top case and I love it. It holds basically everything, it's out of the way, water resistant, lockable (if anything made of ABS plastic is lockable...).

Not trying to tell you what to do, just what works for me :) 

Offline Bluesmudge

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2019, 07:26:24 AM »
Are you totally decided on 4 cylinders?

Offline Watcher

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2019, 08:15:45 PM »
MT07 is off the table.  I like the bike but it falls short for me on too many issues.

Not really interested in another Duc either.  At least not at this time.  A little more than I'm willing to spend, the Scrambler isn't quite my style, and the new Monsters are MASSIVE for some reason.
Believe it or not, given the choice I'd rather not have ABS.  I have too much fun throwing the rear end around in traffic.

Not a fan of top boxes.  If for no other reason it kills the look of the bike.  For 90% of my tasks a tank bag is enough and for the other 10% of the time I use a tail-bag.


Not married to the idea of 4-cylinders.  Been on 2-cylinders for literally all of my bikes thusfar.  Just thinking maybe I'm missing something.
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Offline mr72

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2019, 04:29:30 AM »
Fwiw I agree top boxes look bad, but man is it handy. However I don't have one on my Bonnie for a reason.

I also agree the new Ducati monsters would be a no go for me too. Scrambler is a much better looking bike.

I haven't ridden any of these, just sat on them in dealerships. Xsr700 is pretty attractive but I think I am too tall for those ergos. If I was buying a new bike it'd be a triumph speed twin or a Kawasaki versys. Riding a big displacement air cooled bike has nearly convinced me that water cooling could be a good idea even on a motorcycle.

Anyway, hope you find what you really like! Maybe the Honda is the one.

Offline Bluesmudge

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2019, 07:29:23 AM »
I know you probably want a light weight bike, but what about the 2010+ Honda CB1100 or mid 90's CB1000.

Absolutely stunning naked muscle bikes. The 1100's seem to be fairly cheap used relative to their MSRP.


2013 1100:


1995 1000:
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 07:33:29 AM by Bluesmudge »

Offline Watcher

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2019, 11:50:24 AM »
I don't mind some of the "modern-classic" looking bikes like the Z900RS or XSR series, but I don't particularly enjoy the CB1100.  Less "modern" and more "classic".
The CB650R I'd be more interested in, but I still like the CB650F style a bit better.
That may change if I see one in person.

Re: CB1000, actually a CB919 "Hornet" wouldn't be a bad find.  I see those every now and then on the used market, but the "hot-seat" exhaust isn't the best idea for Arizona.


I may be redacting my statement about the XSR700, too.  It really is a cool bike, and I can get the necessary luggage for cheap due to my line of work.
Also there's one being "closed out" for a really good price at a local dealership.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 10:36:05 PM by Watcher »
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Offline Watcher

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2019, 04:12:37 PM »
Went by the local major dealership that showed they had on in stock.

Was there for like 15 minutes and nobody approached me.
A salesman helping an older couple passed by the area, didn't even say hi or offer to find me a free salesman.
On my way out there were 4 guys in uniform by the door.  Didn't even get a goodbye.

Probably the 4th time I've been in that dealership ever, it's been the same every time.
If it comes down to I want one for sure I'll probably hit up the local Honda dealership.  They're closer to me, too, just didn't have one in stock.

At least I got to sit on one.  Was fairly comfy.  Seat had a weird "middle" to it.  If you sat up on the gas tank it was nice, and if you slid way back there was a bit of a "bowl" you settled into, but right in the middle the edge of the seat presses into my legs.
Slightly more upright than my Monster.
That's about all I can say about it...
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Offline pliskin

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2019, 07:04:48 AM »
What happened to your love affair with your "duc" ? Didn't you get it not to long ago?
Why are you looking here?

Offline cbrfxr67

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2019, 10:17:45 AM »

 i know you're talking about the cb but when I first saw one of these on CL i was smitten.  That frame sang to me.  Then i looked up specs and slept on it,...meh.  Still like it,...  Interested to see what you do watcher
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Offline Watcher

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2019, 11:12:08 PM »
What happened to your love affair with your "duc" ? Didn't you get it not to long ago?

It's been two years.

I still like it, but it's showing it's age.


I've gotten word that the local Ducati dealership is sitting on some Scramblers they may want to liquidate.  My shop has a great relationship with them, talking to their parts guy he says I'd be "very surprised" by the deal they could offer me.

I like the engine and build quality enough that I could stick with a Duc, but I don't know if I'm a total fan of the Scrambler style.



Then i looked up specs and slept on it,...meh.

Everyone seems to really be "poo-poo-ing" the specs on these.  I get that it's no 600RR, but it's pretty strong compared to the competition.
The 2019 CB makes a claimed 94 horses and 47ft/lbs.
A Z650 makes a claimed 68 horses and about the same torque figure.
An SV650 makes 75 HP and, yet again, about the same amount of torque.
The Honda is actually leading the pack, here.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 12:23:46 AM by Watcher »
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Offline IdaSuzi

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2019, 12:30:49 PM »
Haha not poo-pooing it at all. It just seems to me to slot in a funny spot. The CB650f that you referenced has less power than the 2019 CB650r and way different styling. The CB650r is neo-retro and now has an MSRP of $8,899. The 2018 and before CB650f still has an impressive 90 hp @ 11,000 rpm and 47 ft-lbs @ 8,000 rpm. My problem with the CB650f is that being a heavy, I-4 standard with an MSRP of $8,249, it is much more honest IMO to compare it to the GSX-S 750, which in 2018 had a very similar MSRP of $8,299 but has 112 hp @ 10,500 rpm and 54 ft-lbs of torque @ 9,000 rpm. Even the weight is only like 8 lbs apart.

I could spec warrior all these bikes but my problem is when you get to the I-4, $8k range naked bikes, there are too many better bikes that are also likely cheaper used because of Honda's resale. The Z900, MT-09, GSX-S 750, the Street Triple and so on.

The SV-650, MT-07, and Z650 are great naked bikes but are much cheaper, fuel efficient, lighter, and are all twin engines. All these bikes are narrower, weigh 40+ lbs less, are all about $1,000+ less than the CB-650f, and have much more low rpm torque being twins.

That was what I was trying to say the first go around but I might not have been very clear. I think the cb-650f is probably a great reliable bike and looks amazing, but is not really in the same class as the mid range naked twin cylinder bikes, and in my opinion doesn't stack but well with the other I-4, I-3 bikes. Best of luck with your search, I think you should pick the bike that you want the most, and that you feel the best about.
1998 RM125
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Offline Watcher

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Re: CB650F
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 09:00:19 PM »
Haha not poo-pooing it at all. It just seems to me to slot in a funny spot.

That's fair, and truth be told a lot of what attracted me to the Honda was the style, and that's both in the F and the R trims.  Just not a big fan of the GSX-S.


I've gotten word that the local Ducati dealership is sitting on some Scramblers they may want to liquidate.  My shop has a great relationship with them, talking to their parts guy he says I'd be "very surprised" by the deal they could offer me.

I got to test ride this today.



I liked it, but I didn't absolutely fall in love with it.  Just was like "Yeah, it's comfy, it makes decent power, I like the suspension, it looks pretty cool, and I like the exhaust."  Not much more to say about it.  I enjoyed the ride, I could enjoy owning this machine, lets see what kind of deal I can get on one.

It's a Scrambler 1100 Sport with the Termignoni side-pipes.  That exact one, the demo model they had, was for sale.  In talking to the head sales guy he's like "Yeah, since we get special pricing on the demo models we can sell them for a pretty good discount."  Then I mentioned my connection, said I was told they could hook me up.
So he said he would draw up some papers and email me a figure later tonight.

Well, I got it.  "Very surprised" was one way to describe my reaction.

$17,000 OTD.   :icon_eek:


To be fair, the 1100 Sport is the highest model in the Scrambler family, it's got the Ohlins suspension, and has a $1500 Termi system on it.  Base price is about $15,000, and the formal quote I got lists about $1400 in various dealer fees and about $1250 in sales tax.  So the bike should be around $20,000 OTD.  The comparison I was given is the OTD price quoted is about the sticker price of a new one with the same options.
So that's about a $3k savings by getting a demo model, but that doesn't seem that significant considering it's essentially a used bike and KBB lists the used rate closer to about $13k.
I was offered the first service comped, which is a few hundred dollar value, as my "homie hookup".  But I'm still not impressed.

If they were able to do it for like $13-14 I might be tempted, but $17...  I like the bike, but I don't $17k like the bike.

But in the end, what's grounding me the most is I could get two CB650s for the price of this one Scrambler.
It's very surprising that the base price of the 1100 is even that high.  I mean, the Scrambler 800s are starting around $8000.  Almost double the price for an extra 300ccs?  Seriously?


Actually, they have a Scrambler Icon on the lot that's pretty cool, maybe I'll reply that it was more than I expected but request a quote on the other one.  They've also got a Monster 1200 for not a bad price, and by "not a bad price" I mean it's several thousand less than the Scrambler 1100!




While I was there, I also got to test ride the new Zero SR/F.  Holy Frijoles!  The amount of torque that machine makes is insane!  It's nearly indescribable, it pulls and pulls and pulls, and when you think it's done, it's not, and when you expect it to be a little weak, it isn't.
From a stop it was very gentle and you can feel the torque kind of ramp up, around 20mph and gaining it's like "You better hold the F on, bro!  We're going and we're not stopping!"
Took it on the interstate.  Need to overtake someone?  A little twist of the wrist and you overtake EVERYTHING!
It feels like it pulls just as hard doing 80 as it did when we were going 30.
No one needs that kind of torque, but damn was it amazing!  I'd totally get one if they weren't $20k and there was actually a chance at saving a lot of money by not buying fuel over the length of ownership...
Got back to the dealership and my guy asks "What did you think?"  I answered "I don't think I should ride that bike any more."   :icon_twisted:
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 09:27:24 PM by Watcher »
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Offline mr72

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Re: New bike time! (CB650F/R?)
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2019, 04:36:22 AM »
Well. If a scrambler 1100 is in the equation then that opens up a lot of options. I think the 800 is a magical formula and decent price but the 1100 is just too big in all categories, especially price. And for >15k it should be perfect.

17k. You could get a scrambler icon and the Honda for that money.

Did you check out a speed/street triple? Or xsr900?

 

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