Author Topic: New bike time! (Monster 821!)  (Read 8736 times)

Offline Watcher

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Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2021, 03:17:27 PM »
{snip}

I see where your coming from, a Ducati isn't cheap and it WILL get beat up on the trail.

But, at a certain point it has a charm to it.
Like the one in this video:


It's beat to HELL but it looks amazing!
"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

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Offline Watcher

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Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2021, 06:58:41 PM »
Ok, so....

I have feelings.  Sorry if I ramble, but I need to get these thoughts on paper (interwebz).

I rode the 1100.



It's an amazing bike.  It's handles like my Monster, but doesn't *feel* like my Monster.  Like, the engine is very similar, the brakes are nice, it's just as flickable/maneuverable, but the seat is a little more plush, the suspension is a little more plush, it has some more "premium" features like self cancelling turn signals and a hydraulic clutch and some other stuff, and overall it was a pleasure to ride.
Unlike my last test ride of it, I really went for it.  Previously I was being cautious and feeling the bike out, this time around I threw confidence at it and rode it like I'd ride it if it was mine, and it didn't disappoint.
The ONLY things I didn't like about it were the pegs were kinda in a spot where they hit my legs when I put my feet down, and I felt the exhaust wasn't loud enough despite being a Termignoni race system, but that likely has a baffle I could remove, so I guess the only thing I didn't like about it was the fact my legs hit the pegs.  But that's something I could get used to.

Things that were different: the way my Monster's seat and gas-tank are sculpted it feels like you sit "in" the bike rather than "on" it.  The Scrambler was very much a sit "on".  Not that that's a bad thing, but I felt a little less connected to it than my Monster.

Would it be a good Scrambler?  No doubt it could handle some light offroad riding, but it honestly felt a bit like it was wearing a facade.  Yeah the suspension was more plush than the Monster, yeah the tires are knobbier, yeah the bars and seating position are more upright, but I don't think it's a Scambler much more than in an aesthetic manner.  I could do offroad, but I'm not sure that I'd want to.  If I owned it I'd probably put a set of Road 5 GT tires on there and keep it street only, and at that point I only really have it for the aesthetic.

Would I ride one instead of my Monster?  Well sure, but it would be a direct replacement in the role my Monster has rather than an expansion, which is part of what I wanted to begin with.

Can I get it?  Trade in on my Monster was valued at $8600.  I still owe some ~$7000, so I only have about a $1600 trade-in credit.  Out the door on the 1100 with the Termi was about $12k, *including* my trade-in credit, and I have some $2-3k I can put down, so I'd essentially be in a loan for about $9-10K.  If this was two years ago and I didn't have a bike already, I'd say yes.  But as is I'm essentially putting myself back into the same position I was two years ago, just with a different bike.  Not necessarily a bad thing, I can afford it, but it would be hard for me to call it the right move, especially because I'm trying to diversify my riding style.

Wildcard.  Scrambler 800 Icon.  While I was talking numbers with the salesman he mentioned they had a demo of the 800 Icon they were selling for $7k.  With less than an hour until close, I threw a leg over that and just went for it.

Oh man, now THAT is the bike!  The bars are taller so you can stand on it easier, the seat is lower so you feel more planted when stopped or walking with the bike, it has more suspension travel than even the 1100 does, but about the same ground clearance.  It's less powerful, but it's lighter weight.  It's less fancy, but it's way cheaper!  Just as nimble feeling, and no pegs in the way when stopped, either.  It doesn't feel like a street bike in Scrambler dress, it feels like an honest Scrambler!  The switches and electrics overall felt cheaper, but whatever.
Just like the 1100, I babied that thing on the first test ride.  This time around, I was bouncing it off the rev limiter and bunny-hopping it off of speed bumps.  Treated the throttle like an on/off switch, and squeezed hard on the brakes, and it was a blast!  If my goal is to get something I could commute on AND take on a fire road, and not worry about if it gets smacked around, THIS is the bike!  Bonus points, it's yellow!



With the 1100 I made it back to the dealership contented that it could replace my Monster.  With the Icon I came back smiling, wondering if I could afford it outright!
So, can I?  Honestly, probably!  My quote was about $8.8 out the door, if I put that same $2-3k down I only need to finance ~$5k.  That would mean, in total, I'd be in debt ~$12k instead of ~$10k, but it would be for TWO bikes rather than just one!

Oh man, I am the most tempted I've been so far.

Secondary option for the Icon, my co-worker suggested to me I trade the Monster for the Icon.  They're about equal value, so in a nutshell I'd continue to owe about the same as I owe on the Monster, only instead of a Monster I'd have the Icon.  That's tempting, and since it would be refinanced I'd possibly have a cheaper monthly, and since it's a lesser bike I'd have a cheaper insurance charge, and overall I'd save more money, I could outright own it sooner, and I could save some extra cash on the side for something else entirely.
But now I'm afraid lacking a sport style bike would be a detriment.  I mean, I still love that Monster, and where the Icon falls flat is overall speed and interstate performance.  On the ride home even after the high of riding a new bike the Monster felt, well, perfect.  It was comfortable, planted, and powerful.  A great choice for smoother roads and riding the mountain, but that's not to say the Icon isn't bad in those environments either...

Hell, I had more fun on that Icon in a 20 minute test ride than I had previously all that week!  That same co-worker who suggested I trade the Monster for the Icon did kind of the same thing I was looking at doing.  He has a Z1000 (I borrowed it for a while) and got a Husqvarna 701 supermoto.  I loves that Z1000 as I love my Monster, but for his daily ride, for fun, and for overall capability, he prefers the 701 totally.  He's debated selling that Z1000 so many times, ultimately refusing to only because he's emotionally attached to it, but he never rides it anymore.
This is the position from which hes recommending I trade the Monster for the Icon.  He says I probably won't ride the Monster anymore.
I'd like to say he's wrong, but if he's right the smart thing to do would be to follow his advice and trade the Monster for the Icon.


...

I just don't know.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 07:20:03 PM by Watcher »
"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

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Offline mr72

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Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2021, 05:40:57 AM »
To throw a wrench in this thing, you know you can probably find a used Scrambler 800 for $6K or less, I see them all the time, with like 1200 miles on it. Then you could probably wind up with two bikes for little more than you are paying for the one.

I seriously considered the Scrambler 800 when I bought my Triumph and right now I am highly tempted to get one in addition to the Triumph. If the economy doesn't go awful this year then I'd say there's a fair chance I will think real hard about buying one to add to the garage.

Anyway, if you recall, I suggested you check out a Scrambler 800 before you bought the M821. I think they are a terrific balance. I can't imagine you really need more power for the highway... that thing is like 80 lb lighter than my Triumph and has about the same power, and my Triumph is just fine on the highway as long as you can handle the wind.

The grandad in me also would like to see my friends who are younger than me find their way in less debt. It's something I wish I had done when I was younger. If you have a chance to have less motorcycle debt, I'd say go for it. You can always buy another Monster or a sportbike used for part-time use. Why not get a GSXR or R6 to scratch the 100hp sportbike itch, something you can get for $4k all day long used, with that cash you have in your pocket, and lower your payments with the daily driver Scrambler that does 95% of what you want it to do right now?

Offline Watcher

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Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2021, 10:50:40 AM »
To throw a wrench in this thing, you know you can probably find a used Scrambler 800 for $6K or less, I see them all the time, with like 1200 miles on it. Then you could probably wind up with two bikes for little more than you are paying for the one.

You're not wrong, but right now there's nothing.  The Scrambler is a pretty popular bike, but owners tend to hold on to them.  I've only ever seen a handful of Scramblers for sale on the used market, and they all wanted about what I'd be paying for a "new" one.

I seriously considered the Scrambler 800 when I bought my Triumph and right now I am highly tempted to get one in addition to the Triumph. If the economy doesn't go awful this year then I'd say there's a fair chance I will think real hard about buying one to add to the garage.

Anyway, if you recall, I suggested you check out a Scrambler 800 before you bought the M821. I think they are a terrific balance. I can't imagine you really need more power for the highway... that thing is like 80 lb lighter than my Triumph and has about the same power, and my Triumph is just fine on the highway as long as you can handle the wind.

I've never ridden a Triumph Scrambler.  On paper they do seem overall lesser in performance, but ultimately my love affair with bikes from Bologna is drawing me to one brand in particular.
I remember your suggestion, and at the time I think I didn't know that I actually wanted one.  Sounds a bit funny to say, but I remember being unimpressed with it at the time.  At the time I was also comparing it to, like, a Z650, a Honda CB650R, my M750, an SV650, etc.  It's a bike that falls short as a sport-naked, but it's categorically wrong to compare it so.  When I rode the M821 after riding some scramblers and stuff the choice was obvious.  Now that I am looking specifically for a Scrambler, the bike is totally different.  Maybe you're right that it can do highway ok, I didn't think to take it on the interstate during my demo because I had limited time.


The grandad in me also would like to see my friends who are younger than me find their way in less debt. It's something I wish I had done when I was younger. If you have a chance to have less motorcycle debt, I'd say go for it. You can always buy another Monster or a sportbike used for part-time use. Why not get a GSXR or R6 to scratch the 100hp sportbike itch, something you can get for $4k all day long used, with that cash you have in your pocket, and lower your payments with the daily driver Scrambler that does 95% of what you want it to do right now?

Maybe that is the smart move, but I can't shake the feeling I'll just miss the 821 too much.  Used Monsters are actually more plentiful than used Scramblers, with prices averaging $6-$7k.  So I could always just save up and buy another Monster in a few years if I think trading it was the wrong move.  But if that's what ends up happening it really wasn't the best thing to sell my Monster to begin with.
Also, seeing as I don't really have much equity in my 821 yet I don't feel like getting rid of it now is the smartest move either.  If my trade in credit is $8.6 I imagine the actual value of the bike is at least $10.  I can keep paying it down, and if I end up wanting to get rid of the Monster it'll be just that much more valuable to me.  I'm paying it off faster than it is depreciating, after all.
Yeah, being in debt isn't great, but it isn't the end of the world either.  I'm comfortably saving money even while paying off my 821, all the while I'm building valuable credit.  Suffice to say I can afford to have two loans.

...
Argh, maybe the trade-in is the right move.  I can already see the Scrambler as the choice commuter, and seeing as my riding these days is mostly commuting the Scrambler will definitely satisfy my needs just as well as the Monster does, even if the Monster satisfies a want the Scrambler might not be able to.  Then if I decide letting go of the Monster was the wrong move I can look at getting a different bike in the future.

Here I go flip-flopping again...
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 11:22:19 AM by Watcher »
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Offline mr72

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Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2021, 12:03:59 PM »
I've never ridden a Triumph Scrambler.  On paper they do seem overall lesser in performance,

Oh I was talking about a Ducati Scrambler. I'd never consider a Triumph Scrambler. I know a lot of folks love them but there's just stuff wrong IMHO. It's 100 lb heavier than the Ducati with considerably less power and a whole lot more shiny bits to get scuffed and broken. And if you're into that kind of bike, a Bonneville is just a better version of the same thing.


Quote
I remember your suggestion, and at the time I think I didn't know that I actually wanted one.  Sounds a bit funny to say, but I remember being unimpressed with it at the time.

Well, in all honesty, if you were cross-shopping it against a bike that was $5K more expensive, it's hard to see why you'd pick the Scrambler. ISTR you were also underwhelmed with the M801 which has the same engine and very similar chassis to the Scrambler 800. My guess is you were just looking for a much bigger jump in performance vs. your old 750.

Anyway, I can't really tell you what to do :) If it was me, I think I'd decide what bike I would use most often and bet everything on that, and invest only disposable cash into the part-time use bike. Hey wait, that's exactly what I did :). But I still think it's a good idea. Sounds like you really enjoyed the cheaper Ducati, and like you say you can always get another Monster.

Offline Watcher

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Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2021, 12:42:41 PM »
Anyway, I can't really tell you what to do :) If it was me, I think I'd decide what bike I would use most often and bet everything on that, and invest only disposable cash into the part-time use bike. Hey wait, that's exactly what I did :). But I still think it's a good idea. Sounds like you really enjoyed the cheaper Ducati, and like you say you can always get another Monster.

I appreciate your input.  Everyone on this forum I think gives good honest feedback.  If I didn't think so I wouldn't have stuck around despite being {counts on fingers} almost 5 bikes removed from a GS500, lol!
"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

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Offline mr72

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Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2021, 09:25:20 AM »
Well I have not owned 5 motorcycles in my entire lifetime. So I'm sure you know a lot more about this than I do.

My MO is to spend a long time making up my mind about what I want, doing lots of research and planning, often for years, before making a purchase. But I always go in knowing that whatever thing it is I wind up with is not likely to be 100% perfect, so modification, adapting it exactly to my needs, is always part of the equation. This is not just for my motorcycles but everything else in my life. As a result, I wind up with well researched stuff that is close to perfect for my needs and then as the years go by it becomes more and more tailored to my needs. I try to be honest about my own needs and use and get precisely what fits it, nothing less and nothing more. Usually the only times I don't follow this, I wind up cheaping out and wasting money on something that turned out to be inadequate (kind of like my GS500... but it definitely served its purpose at the time). But I realize not everyone makes choices this way.

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Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2021, 06:00:35 PM »
I tend to both fly by the seat of my pants and research stuff to death, lol.
I'm a little more aggressive at it.

Like, something will catch my attention and I'll get hype on it and go all Hackerman and computer research the hell out of it, then come to a conclusion.

For instance, I've already considered crossing off the Scrambler 800.  At least this specific one.  Pre 2019 800s use crappy switchgear, it's a common issue for people to lose their turn signal switch mid ride, and I discovered I had trouble cancelling it on my test ride after reviewing the video I took.
Could be a non-issue for me, could just be a training work around, but it makes me less inclined to trade my Monster in for it.
Maybe I still want it in addition to, though...

But sometimes you don't know if the thing is perfect until you live with it.
In the case of motorcycles, I'll test ride something and like it, then get it, and I won't find out until months later I dislike X Y or Z about it and decide to move on.

In the case of why I've gone through so many; my first bike, GS650, I liked the aethetic of but it wasn't comfortable for long rides, I didn't find out until I owned it for a few months.  My first GS I liked but I lost my job and had to sell it.  My second GS I crashed and it turned into a project so I sold it.  Both of those I had for around a year each.
My CB500 I strategically sold to move to AZ.  My Buell was fun but a bad commuter, it lasted my about 9 months and I decided it wasn't for me.
My M750 was amazing but dated.  I had it for two years and decided I wanted something more modern.  My M821 is amazing but my needs are evolving.  It's going on two years on my 821.


« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 08:33:51 PM by Watcher »
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Offline Watcher

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Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2021, 05:11:02 PM »
So, the excitement died down and I decided not to make a move.  The best thing I can do right now is continue to pay down my Monster.

I mentioned I had a few grand saved up, I can find some other better uses for it.  I still need a 4-wheeled vehicle of some kind, or maybe I can find something cheap on the used market (like a DRZ) that can scratch my dirt itch.
"The point of a journey is not to arrive..."

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Offline mr72

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Re: New bike time! (Monster 821!)
« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2021, 06:40:28 AM »
That's not as fun, but it sounds like the wise choice.

 

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