Author Topic: tobyd '98 GS  (Read 742 times)

Offline ajensen

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2017, 08:00:07 PM »
Great information--keep it coming.

Offline tobyd

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2017, 02:02:37 PM »
Hacksawed off the spacers for the front mount. Probably will replace these with thick aluminium washers and plain alu tube.



The bolt is rusted solid into the spacers although it seems all the corrosion is along one edge, I might cut one in half tomorrow to see how far the rust extends into the tubes as I might be able to gently pick out a lot of the rust with a tie wrap wire

Managed to sit the engine on one side to let the penetrating oil flow vertically so I'll take a look tomorrow and see if its loosened at all. Whole lot less to heat up though. Drilling it will be the sadness

Also noticed that all the available 2nd gs500e engines on eBay at the moment have either seized-in-place or broken-on-the-block front mounts. So looking to avoid that.

Engine needs a good clean so i'll look for some degreaser tomorrow and make it some sort of paddling pool to sit in and be de-skanked.

Offline tobyd

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2017, 08:23:23 AM »
Drilled some of the engine mount but got tired and angry and rained on so gave up. I'll have a look in the week.

Framewise, its nearly stripped. Just the swing arm and suspension to go and all those nuts are loose. Whether the thing will come adrift I don't know. Times run out today for those.



Quite a lot of the bits thankfully come off as complete systems, the rear brakes from reservoir to caliper comes off in one contained unit. The front brake, once freed from its wiring comes off handlebar and all. the wiring loom mostly just comes off in one go.

Couldn't work out why the top of the yoke wouldn't come off, until I realised the steering lock was on...

I'll clean down the frame ones its ready for coating. Still don't know what colour I want. Thought about black but I don't think it will work, not sure about keeping it the same colour, its not the best silver (as silvers go) IMO.



something like this perhaps but not as shiny



or this, colour wise. that frame probably costs more than my house.


Offline tobyd

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2017, 06:29:09 AM »
Frame stripped and somewhat degreased. Centerstand bolts had to be hacksawed off but was expecting that. Worst of the rot was at the centerstand but hopefully sandblasting will take care of that. I'll clean down what I can tomorrow. Going to the shop on Monday and I'll bring all the bits I'm tentatively interested in having done along and let the guy take a look. Would like to get the grab rails, heel plate mount triangle things and torque bar recoated in matt black so cleaned them down although the gear shift side heel plate is rounded off a bit... Will have to see what the powder coating place thinks and quotes on how many parts get done though. Might just get the matt black bits blasted and I'll 4" brush on bitumin.



Swing arm in not-awful shape under years of crud. The broken mudguard is jammed on though and I had to drill out the bolts for the chain guard.



'Slightly vague' rear suspension 'possibly' related to the knuckle 'bearings'.





yak. I don't know if the front one is so worn that its into the knuckle itself? They look pretty crusty too so not sure how to get those out for replacement anyway... We'll see. Might take the knuckle along to the sandblaster and get it cleaned up, not sure its worth coating or just replacing outright.

been ignoring the engine.

Offline ajensen

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2017, 11:47:13 AM »
Y'all in the UK seem to have so much more problems with rust than we have in the US (I am from Florida and have lived in east Tennessee for the last 15 years). I wonder if it is because of so much rain, salt on the roads, if Brits ride no matter what the weather, or something else. By the way, my first bike was a brand-new BSA Bantam D1 (125cc plunger frame). Except for the plunger mechanism, I never had any rust issues--still have the Bantam although it now stays in my garage.

I am really enjoying your adventures with your GS and look forward to your postings.

Offline tobyd

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2017, 02:11:09 PM »
I'm not so sure why its so rusted up. Its such a smattering in different places that's I guess its just not be taken care of for a long time. I don't recall the council making much effort to salt the roads but the bike's current registration plate is from a city by the sea so maybe its just sat on a seafront for 10 years and gone manky that way?

I don't understand how it got an MOT with a rotten exhaust and borked suspension. Perhaps the man-from-the-ministry was having an offday, or is easily bribed or was a moron. Who knows?

One day I'd like a Bantum, always liked how they looked and there is something appealing to me about an air-cooled 125 single from that era.

I really hope there is some positive progress to report on soon. Gotten a bit depressed cracking off bolts to find more rotted out fixings, the parts list is growing by the day and I've not even started on the engine yet :(

Offline ShowBizWolf

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2017, 04:01:05 PM »
Don't let rust get ya down, Toby!! I am fighting that battle allllll the time here in PA. They put brine and other chemicals on the roads here in the winter time and it just eats away everything! Actually, IIRC, they had to stop in the last year or two because it was actually eating away the mounts for the plows on the trucks!

Here's my Turtle Van last summer when I was fixing the frame rails and fabbing up a new bumper bar (this is without the plastic bumper cover on). Rust sucks but it can be conquered!!!!
(I am just including 3 picture links because I don't want to clutter up your thread with my pictures)
http://i.imgur.com/AebzD4U.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fFJj6Vk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rtBeuf6.jpg

You are not alone in your fight against rust :kiss3:
Superbike bars, '04 GSXR750 headlight w/LED H7, '01 GSXR1000 signals, Chuck81 fork brace, '05 Busa fender, stainless exhaust & brake lines, LED dash & brake bulbs, 140/80 rear hoop, F tail lens, fenderectomy, R6 shock, 25mm raising links, underglow, Bandit400 hugger, aluminum heel guards and pegs

Offline tobyd

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2017, 11:05:38 AM »
Whoa, that's some rust going on there! I think its just the cumulative setbacks and the time wasted trying to save a few things that should just be tossed in the metals bin at the tip and replaced with a decent 2nd hand ebay special :angry: One day everything will be stainless steel and all fixings will be copper-greased. at least, I hope.

I've just spent some time with a steel brush wheel in the drill going over some things

That suspension knuckle is a write-off, no way is another bearing going to go into the remains of the hole. I'll try and get a breakers one, some guy is breaking a GS in town at the moment so waiting to hear back from him. Might be able to pick up a load of bolts and things and some other odds and ends to save buying new. Broken mudguard is off but I don't think I'll be putting a replacement in. I'm not even sure what it is protecting?

Ground off the other centerstand 'captive' nut, I think I'll replace those with nylocks or maybe just a single bolt through both mounts. Steel-wheeled some of the rest of it that was a bit crusty and I think the frame is by-and-large sound. Some bits aren't great but I don't think anything is more than superficial. Which I guess is the main thing.



The outrigger things for the passenger footpegs are a bit grim. And at some point someone has made a really poor job of rattle can silvering bits at random. I guess to hide some of the odd flaky bits.

Managed to free off the gear-shift-side heel guard so I'll see about getting both footpeg mounts coated in black. The seat-lock mechanism on grab rail doesn't seem to want to come loose, which is a bit of a sod since I wanted those cleaned up too. Might have to DIY them with hammerite and then a spray can. *update* Seat-lock saw sense so I'll take the grab rails along tomorrow.

Half toying with the idea of having the swing-arm in matt black too, and keeping the frame a silvery colour.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 11:31:11 AM by tobyd »

Offline tobyd

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2017, 02:35:00 PM »
Frame went to the paint shop on Monday, don't have a schedule so I assume it'll be sometime next week. Went for a black swing arm, grab rails, peg-mounts and center stand, and aluminium colour (so slightly darker than stock) frame. Should be getting a zinc coating pre-powder so it'll last forever or maybe longer. Or I'll crash it immediately and it'll be a pointless exercise in futility.

The old shock mount was a nasty piece of junk but found a local breaker had one for 30.



Except 35 buys you it and a gas shock (and 40 buys you the same plus 5 credit since neither of us had change). Looks like a circa 1990 unit in aluminium (I can well imagine the later 'its-made-of-rust' model appeared when someone noticed the insane amount this must have cost to produce) with pretty neat bearings. The gas shock from someone called bater or rator or something looks a bit iffy but I'll stick with it until an R6 upgrade, the original shock is a dog. I'll talk to the guy about a replacement instrument panel since mine is horrible and I need so many nuts and bolts now...

Cleaned the whole thing down and mashed loads of new grease into the bearings a few times and was generally quite happy with it.

The engine remains wrapped in a tarp on some blocks in the garden pending some decent cobalt drill bits (15 ones, they disappoint...) and cutting fluid to sort out the seized mounting.

Offline ajensen

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2017, 10:26:11 PM »
Thanks for the update.

Offline tobyd

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2017, 11:09:00 AM »
Between work, laziness, poor weather and frustration I've been a bit slack with this project. After a massive hangover yesterday I thought I should get on with it.

Anyway, frame been and gone to the paint shop. I didn't take a picture of it when it came back but it looks like this now. Put most of it back together a weekend ago, probably only takes a few hours. I'd bagged and labelled everything so was just a case of remembering what came off in what order. The suspension went on upside done since that was easier. The stand springs were about half the reassembly effort. I used the coin trick to remove them (inserting coins between the coils when its under tension then relieving the tension to let the coins act as spacers) but getting them back on was horrible. You can do them one at a time though but even then its nasty. Nothing else was too bad, torqued up the suspension but left anything accessible finger tight and i'll go around at the end. A lot of the bolts are a bit rusted so I might try painting the heads (hence keeping them finger tight!) but I'll see when its done. Went with a satinish aluminium grey, bit like the old silver colour but darker, matt black swing arm, grab rails, center stand (I don't know why I didn't bring the side stand) and foot peg triangle things. Cleaned up the plastic with some boiled linseed oil which smells rank but bought out the black really well. Not sure how long it lasts but the mudguard is a bit less horrible now.







Splashed out 10 on some new indicators to replace the faux carbon fiber ones. They aren't as bad as I was expecting but one came with a broken wire so I only attached 3. I tried to solder it yesterday but with a hangover it didn't get much further than getting angry. Replaced the old pink levers with some plain ones. the bar ends are coming off too once I find some aren't horrible (or red/pink). The powder coating has quite badly obscured the frame number (I did ask specifically that they watched this, I didn't notice until I was home) so I might see if I can't etch into the coating and get some black to adhere to the numbers. I have the chassis plate though, not sure how best to attach that. gorilla glue maybe? The headlamp mounts are bit a rough so I might try and find some cleaner / blacker examples and the instrument house is overdue a replacement but most of it seems to be in fair order. Might have cooked the battery, its been inside for a while and i'd occasionally trickle charge it but the other night it refused to charge, it was then I noticed the fluid level was a bit low, topped it up and it'll charge and sit at 12.6v but there was a bit of white crud on the tips of the exposed cells so might be scrap...

The bike is at least half copper grease now, adjusted torque down 10% where applicable!

I'd been ignoring the engine but I thought i'd try and tackle the stuck front mount and stuck valve cover. then at least I could find that the head bolts were stuck and say bad things.

drilled and dremelled (these are brilliant) a section out of the middle of the mount so I only had to work on one section at a time then heated and oiled the LHS one for a while until there was some movement. much back and forth later.



was quite surprised to see that go without problems.

then I could get a hacksaw blade through the other side to cut a slot in the bolt. Bit of heat to remove some tension on it and with a professional 6" nail with the end removed as a drift knocked that out too.



Didn't think i'd see this...



It's not the cleanest job in the world, but at least that bolt is out. Must have taken a good 12 hours overall. I think if I had to do this again removing the middle section, drilling through either end and hacksawing a slot would be the most effective way without hammering it to bits and breaking the aluminium.



Anyway, that's progress. Its mostly back together and I might get the engine off to the shop week after next if I can crack on next weekend. Might even get it all back together in time for its MOT in November. In time to not ride it anymore this year...

Offline ajensen

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2017, 12:39:26 PM »
Thanks for the update. Here in Tennessee USA we do not have any kind of inspections for motorcycles. We do have to pass a test to get a motorcycle driving license. Also, we have to have liability insurance, which costs me about $80 each year. The license plate is about $20 each year, as I remember.

Offline tobyd

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2017, 09:59:55 AM »
The MOT over here is yearly for everything once the vehicle is 3 years old, by and large I think its a good idea and honestly the requirements aren't too stringent, keeps the worst wrecks off the road. But its got a fair share of things that you can fail on (and therefore not be allowed on the road) like a number plate reflector... How it passed last time is anyone's guess. Hopefully this time it can go in without broken rear suspension and a blowing exhaust (both insta-fails). oh and rear brake pads that isn't down to the metal on one side.

Some progress today:

Chopped out the valve cover...



Wasn't going anywhere with the front bolt which looked like





So I'll eBay a replacement, the breather can be a spare (for whenever the old one never wears out!). Was shame to have to do it but it was never going to clear the corrosion on that bolt without destruction...

Checked the clearances...all below 0.005mm (the smallest I had) so i'll look to replace the intakes with a +0.005 and the exhausts with a +0.01 then recheck / replace when its time to retorque the head bolts after 500 or so miles. I don't think anyones been into the valve gear in a while...

pulled the cams, gently turning a bit at a time on each bolt in sequence. They came out ok, look to be in ok shape. tensioner seems fine too.



Removed head bolts, outer ones weren't the easiest but kept it all in sequence so should be alright. Head Gasket seemed clean enough so might have been ok after all.

fair bit of carbon build up going on though...



I'll clean all this down a bit before taking the head to the machine shop, hopefully in the week, if I can get the barrel off, which is, of course, stuck...

The bores look ok, bit of grot at the very top of the RHS one which I assume I'm a bit :confused: about - bad rings perhaps?



the other one is a little discoloured there but not particularly rank.

I think its mostly salvageable, unless the barrels are screwed then I might see about a replacement barrel + pistons to sandwich in. They don't look too salty on ebay either...

The battery seems to be happy to charge and hold > 12v so I might have not ruined that as badly as I thought.

10 indicators still not repaired.




Offline ajensen

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2017, 12:21:54 AM »
Wow! I've never seen a valve cover screw rusted like that. It looks like you'll need a helicoil as well. Keep at it--we're cheering for you.

Offline cbrfxr67

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2017, 10:50:21 AM »
"we're cheering for you" +1
"Its something you take apart in 2-3 days and takes 10 years to go back together."
-buddha

Offline tobyd

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2017, 03:04:38 PM »
cheers folks :) not a lot gone to plan on this one...

The thread in the cylinder head is fine, the thread on the rusty old bolt is ok too, just the rest of it was fubardo.

went out a smacked the barrel about with a mallet a bit earlier, turned the pistons over and soaked them in wd40 to keep any moisture down. jammed in a piece of wood between the mini head-bolt-house and the crank case and knocked about to put some tension on the barrel join and soaked it all in penetrating oil. Some folks on Stack Exchange motors suggested pulling the studs out...not sure that's going to help too much but might be something to try later in the week.

Offline J_Walker

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2017, 03:34:47 PM »
mine where stuck too. if you have the means, torch them. [heat them up at the seams.] the OEM gaskets have sorta a "glue" like rubber coating that can get stuck. and problem is there's no way of pulling on them that doesn't seem like it's gonna break a cooling fin.
-Walker

Offline tobyd

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2017, 03:03:44 PM »
There is a definite lack of access and solid surfaces... Gave them the blast with a torch earlier but they still won't yield, so left it soaking in more penetrating oil.

I'm amazed that anything can be stuck to firmly on just a bit of sealant and after nearly 20 years too!



Offline J_Walker

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2017, 04:29:04 PM »
There is a definite lack of access and solid surfaces... Gave them the blast with a torch earlier but they still won't yield, so left it soaking in more penetrating oil.

I'm amazed that anything can be stuck to firmly on just a bit of sealant and after nearly 20 years too!

there's also guide pins, that help line everything up/keep it from shifting around or something, like that bolt up-top they could be corroded for what ever reason... salty roads?
-Walker

Offline ajensen

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Re: tobyd '98 GS
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2017, 11:24:06 AM »
Frustrating problem--I have seen it before on many Japanese motorcycle engines. The manufacturer is so intent on preventing oil leaks that the self-sealing gaskets get really stuck. The advice about the dowels is good. I'd soak each stud down with a good penetrant. Avoid the temptation to beat screwdrivers and chisels into the seam between the engine block and the cylinders. Keep us posted.