Author Topic: Quick (Cheap) Swifter Project Finished  (Read 552 times)

Offline Kito

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Quick (Cheap) Swifter Project Finished
« on: December 06, 2017, 01:14:47 PM »
Hey guys... this is my first contribution here.. I would like to share an idea that I've implemented last week.. and so far is working fine!

I bought an old GS to learn about motorcycle mechanics, tweaks and to take her to the track in a near future...

So after understanding the Quick shifter principles. I bought a relay (4 poles - 12V) that has the normally opened and normally closed contacts.

So I connected the coils (orange wires) through the relay on the normally closed connection.. so the bike works as it should.

From passing light ( that I do not use) I disconnected the original wiring (only one) pulled a wire that feeds 12V when pressed to the relay... and that's it!

I used a 4 pole relay.. and using 2 contacts per coil.

Initially I was concerned about vibration... however it have not interference in the relay (similar to this one)



When pressing the PASS switch the ignition is cut.

At first, I did for the fun.. but it really worked nicely...(high revs especially)

Just put a bit of pressure on the gear lever up.. and a quick tap on the PASS button (even the lettering worked  :laugh:)
and the next gear engages.

Sometimes.. even pops... and so a smile on my face.... :icon_lol:

I can try to post a vid or photos

but is very straightway


« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 12:53:15 PM by Kito »
2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
Thumb Brake Loading (topic=72143.0)
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Offline cbrfxr67

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 03:04:21 PM »
Thanks for post,...but where pics of gs? :dunno_black:
"Its something you take apart in 2-3 days and takes 10 years to go back together."
-buddha

Offline Kito

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 03:57:45 PM »
Here they are! ( I am having trouble to post the pic.. is under 100kb... :cookoo:)

I made a (crappy) video also! ( I wish I had a Gopro to do it while riding)

2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
Thumb Brake Loading (topic=72143.0)
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Offline Kito

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 04:05:30 PM »
2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
Thumb Brake Loading (topic=72143.0)
Clipons

Offline cbrfxr67

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 02:49:36 PM »
(applause!)  interesting stuff!  pics of whole bike? :icon_mrgreen:

what else you got planned?
"Its something you take apart in 2-3 days and takes 10 years to go back together."
-buddha

Offline Kito

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2017, 10:18:20 PM »
At the weekend I will try to record a vid of the QS on action...
2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
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Offline Kito

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 12:48:02 PM »
Updated installation!

2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
Thumb Brake Loading (topic=72143.0)
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Offline iamhiding

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 01:47:22 PM »
thats pretty cool kito, dead creative  :thumb: i've played with the idea of making a switch on the gear lever linkage on another bike but i've never got round to it. i do love rapid clutchless upshifts when snapping the throttle shut but the ignition cut on a quickshifter would make for some hilarious backfiring action  :icon_twisted: :icon_lol:

current project list:
//cbr 600 f3 fighter
//gsxr 1100 mental oldskool supersport
//gs500 daily rat tracker cafe fighter that changes every couple of month... cafe fighter?

Offline Kito

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 05:46:04 PM »
Indeed it is fun!... ohh yeah!
I swear that soon as I get a gopro like camera I post a video with some pops! Perhaps some exhaust takes can show what is happening on the pipe ...Who knows some fire flames are going out too  :D

I found easier to get pops when shifting near of 9k rpm... (which thankfully match with the engine useful range)
  I believe is that related with the pressure wave (like an acoustic standing wave) that is formed inside the piping that allows the explosion happen (more probable at least) in the exhaust.

What I like in this configuration is that all the stock configuration remains.. so if you don't  feel like Q-shifting .. you dont need to do nothing....
2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
Thumb Brake Loading (topic=72143.0)
Clipons

Offline Kito

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2018, 11:27:10 PM »
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Unfortunetely the POW was not captured properly by the camera... and also the video editor remove it when performing the stabilization.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 01:07:23 PM by Kito »
2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
Thumb Brake Loading (topic=72143.0)
Clipons

Offline Kito

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2018, 01:05:07 PM »
new edition
there was a loud pop instead of these shy "tick" :dunno_black:
i think that was too much noise to the camera handle.... so... everething was supressed somehow

I possible to see, what I believe to be, the pressure wave in the flame
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 02:09:36 PM by Kito »
2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
Thumb Brake Loading (topic=72143.0)
Clipons

Offline gregjet

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2018, 08:40:53 PM »
Kito,
 A mech relay has VERY slow switching. Try using a MOSFET switching relay. I suspect you will get a bit less backfire and faster refire. There is high and low amperage types.

Also what year do you have. If you have the single coil reluctor trigger switching that would have an even faster rise time as the voltage is so low ( OK maybe too low, but worth a try) .  It may have interference problems though because they have such a high bandwidth and as such don't love inductive loads. Still manageable but you would need some filtering circuitry added.
Or switch ONE only, of the coils . That should drop the revs a bit and unload the motor a bit ( enough?)

Offline Kito

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2018, 09:18:05 PM »
I thought to do something more elaborated using arduino.... and later I also thought using a transistor as you recommended...
However, For now, I will stick with this, mainly because I have a plenty of other modifications in my list (reverse the shifting, thumb rear brake, change the handlebars, .. long list.

Moreover.... 80 ms (what commercial QS apply roughly) instead of... 200ms (is not more than this, I can try to measure in an oscilloscope in my work). Do not worth the trouble in my opinion ( I can change my mind with no worries at all). Please have a look at the video and see how fast is the taping on the switch button (pass button).

But I liked this one because is really easy to implement. (couple of hours) and is really cheap.

I liked the idea that you gave of switch one coil only... I will give a shot  :2guns: eventually. :thumb:

Thank you for your post! I appreciated a lot .

Final video... In this one I try to show all the aspects of it  working..
Again the pop sound is pretty loud (is pointed by a text in the video).. but the camera cannot reproduce it properly.

I used to get pops at 9Krpms.. this time I got some in lower reves .. (8K or so).. I dont know why exacly.

I found another pop at 1:27 on the follwing  video.. so it was two in the take 2 scene



« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 11:12:03 PM by Kito »
2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
Thumb Brake Loading (topic=72143.0)
Clipons

Offline gregjet

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2018, 08:01:45 PM »
120ms doesn't seem like much extra until you put it fuel/air mixture.
Lets say you are at 9600rpm ( for ease of working, bear with me). Wide open throttle. Full airflow throught he carb ( that is the point of a ignition cut, so you can hold it open). That means that 288litres of fuel/air unburnt is going through the engine and then the exhaust. Hardly surprising that you get backfire. That is the DIFFERENCE, not the total.
200ms of open for a mech is 480litres
80ms is 192litres.
But as I said MOSFET relays usually don't like inductive loads so it may not be possible.
One thing though, if you can get the one coil only to work the unburnt gas may not acciumulate enough to give a full backfire ( ie it will burn on the way through, especially if you switch the CYL1 which is 180deg only in front of the firing of the other cyl. Worth a play anyway.

Offline Kito

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2018, 08:26:08 PM »
Lets take a step back.. and do the math passage by passage...
9600 rpm /60s = 160 rev/s

Considering 4 strokes.. 160/4 = 40 intakes per second

Two cylinders = 80 intakes per second or 1000ms
120ms equals 9.6 intakes cycles of 250cc Per cilinder = 2.5 liters of mixture trashed, right?

But I see your point... I need to mess with the carb and the clutch this week ( I am on vacation :cool:)
I will switch only one cylinder... I liked this idea that you gave. ( soon as possible I will share the results)

The problem with something as fast as a transistor is that I need to put a clock counter and then establish the switching time... and then put everything in a water-resistant container... Right?
Hmmmmmm ..... I am on vacation Greg... To do something elaborated as this .. just if my wife ask (order) me  :D

Just kidding.

Greetings dude!








« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 10:50:25 PM by Kito »
2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
Thumb Brake Loading (topic=72143.0)
Clipons

Offline gregjet

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2018, 07:56:13 AM »
we both screwed up our maths. ( my excuse is it was 5oclock in the morning...)
A stroke is 180 deg, so 2 revolutions per intake of one cyl. ( 1nlet, compression, power and exhaust =720deg= 2revs). 9600 is 4800 intakes per second per cyl. Or 9600 intakes for 2 cyl ( not evenly as they are 180deg cranks). Nice easy half litre per 4 strokes ( 500cc) or 2 revs , so  a litre per 4 revolutions., or (9600/4) litres per minute= 2400litres per minute= 40l/s.
80ms is 40 x80/1000= 3.2l
200ms is 40 x 200/1000= 8l
difference 4.8l or a fair of fuel/air.
Hopefully I got it right this time.
Even at half the rpm that is a fair bit of fuel/air into the exhaust/muffler.
I will be interested to see if the single side works.
I would have thought a mosfet relay was capable of switching is the microsecond range ( actually faster really depending on the current and voltage) but it may purposely have a softened switching transient for loads.

Offline Kito

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Re: Quick (Cheap) Swifter
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2018, 09:57:14 AM »
At 5 am I cannot even p!ss without missing the target.
2004 Track/Street Rat .... or maybe just trash!
Reverse Gear Shifting (topic=72206.0)
Quick and Cheap Shifter (topic=72099.0)
Gear indicator (topic=72403.0)
Thumb Brake Loading (topic=72143.0)
Clipons