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Do you really save gas by owning your GS?

Started by IdaSuzi, March 21, 2019, 05:12:32 PM

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IdaSuzi

The reason I ask is because I recently came to a funny conclusion now that the weather is warming up and I can ride again. I have found although my GS gets round 55 mpg, and my car gets 34, I tend to take a lot of back roads, joy rides after classes, and just exploring around while I'm on my bike. So of course I don't really save much on gas but I figure it's good for my soul haha  :D what's your experience?
1998 RM125
1995 RM250
1999 Yamaha Banshee (Kind of a bike???)
1993 DR350
2008 GS500F naked conversion, Kat 600 shock, Yoshi Slip On, Progressive Springs, 20/62.5/140 rejet, Fenderectomy, LED Front and Rear Signals

Bluesmudge

When I was in college and did 90% of my commuting miles on the GS I definitely saved a lot of gas vs my '96 dodge grand caravan that got 18 mpg.

Now I have a 4 wheel vehicle supplied by work so my GS only gets used for recreation or when I need my 2 wheel fix. That means any miles on the GS is all fuel I wouldn't have used otherwise. I like knowing that if I ever end up back at a normal job that doesn't provide a vehicle for commuting that I will still have the GS in the stable to save on gas again.

mr72

Before the gearing change I was getting 52mpg on my GS but it has to run ethanol-free fuel which costs about 20% more than normal gas. It definitely saved a ton of fuel compared with my Jeep which gets about 15-18mpg when I have to commute, which is rare now.

My Triumph has been getting about 42-45mpg lately but it will run fine on E85, so on a cost basis is just about the same cost per mile as the GS. Quick math in my head, I think trip-for-trip I use about half or less fuel on either motorcycle than I do with the Jeep, even accounting for longer routes on the bikes.

Bluesmudge

My GS has been running E10 for all of its 40,000 miles without issue. As long as you ride your bike at least once every 2 months it should rarely be a problem. I've never replaced any of the rubber parts in my carb.

qcbaker

Is my GS more fuel efficient than my car? Yes. Do I save gas by owning my GS? No.

1. My FR-S takes premium gas, plus I don't drive it with the intent of maximum MPGs, I drive it with the intent of maximum enjoyment.
2. While I do often commute on my GS, the nature of my commute (and my riding style) basically kills and fuel saving I would have gotten otherwise. In traffic, I tend to keep the bike a gear (maybe even two gears) lower than necessary because throttle response is much better at higher RPMs and that allows me to adjust my position in traffic more quickly when I need to, which has gotten me out of more than a couple dangerous situations (people trying to merge without seeing me mostly lol).

PS - My bike also runs on e10, 87 octane. I've had zero issues with the engine or carbs in the 3 years I've owned it. I do ride it very regularly though. I doubt its sat unridden for more than a month the entire time I've owned it. :dunno_black:

IdaSuzi

 Thank you all for your responses. I can relate to a lot of what you have said. I would certainly save money will the GS because of the fuel efficiency and low maintenance but it's just too fun and I am loving spring after a long Idaho winter. I run my bike on 85 octane e10 haha but I am at around 5500 ft of elevation and it seems to run fine with it. I do have to winterize the bike though.
1998 RM125
1995 RM250
1999 Yamaha Banshee (Kind of a bike???)
1993 DR350
2008 GS500F naked conversion, Kat 600 shock, Yoshi Slip On, Progressive Springs, 20/62.5/140 rejet, Fenderectomy, LED Front and Rear Signals

Kilted1

Hey there Ida!  Fellow Idahoan here, in Meridian.  Been enjoying spring a lot though I have yet to take my GS out, still needs a bit of work I didn't get to over the winter but it's getting close.

As far as gas.  I commute with my employers vehicle and fuel so that's not a factor.  The family grocery-getter is a minivan getting 18MPG so I'm definitely saving if I'm just running errands and don't need any cargo space.

But then there's the fun factor and unnecessary miles which changes the equation somewhat.  If you're talking dollars and not just gallons, then owning a bike is definitely costing me.  I'm still paying insurance and maintenance for my wife's van and now I'm also paying insurance (which is less) and maintenance (which so far is more) for the GS.  I also have an inherited scooter which is also insured but has been very easy on maintenance and gets the same MPG as the GS and has a cargo box.  Thinking of selling that one off but it's good for a quick store run and it's easy to drive.

So do I save money and/or fuel?  Doubtful and maybe.  Is it worth it?  You betcha!!! :woohoo:

mr72

You guys who say you are running ethanol fuel with no issues, I suggest that's just you don't know what the issues are yet. It'll ruin the o rings in the carbs and cause a lot more corrosion of brass parts particularly the float needle seat and pilot jet. But it'll probably take 5k miles or more of running E85 before you have symptoms show up while riding, like leaking fuel from carbs, sticking floats, unable to get the idle mixture dialed, etc. It just means you are on a 5k mile carb rebuild schedule. Normal gas may give you 3x that.

qcbaker

Quote from: mr72 on March 24, 2019, 04:53:14 AM
You guys who say you are running ethanol fuel with no issues, I suggest that's just you don't know what the issues are yet. It'll ruin the o rings in the carbs and cause a lot more corrosion of brass parts particularly the float needle seat and pilot jet. But it'll probably take 5k miles or more of running E85 before you have symptoms show up while riding, like leaking fuel from carbs, sticking floats, unable to get the idle mixture dialed, etc. It just means you are on a 5k mile carb rebuild schedule. Normal gas may give you 3x that.

I'm not denying that ethanol in general can cause problems for these bikes, but using e10 shouldn't negatively affect the carbs unless its allowed to sit unused for an extended period of time. Plenty of people on here who exclusively run e10 (and ride regularly) who don't have to rebuild the carbs every 5K. I certainly dont lol. I would think E85 will almost definitely cause issues before long though.

It may also depend on the year of the bike. Bikes built before the widespread adoption of e10 may have more issues dealing with that than later model bikes. :dunno_black:

Bluesmudge

13 years and 40,000 miles of E10 and I've never been inside the carbs except once to re-jet. Usually sits 2 - 4 months at a time in my garage without use during winter. Sometimes a remember to add a little fuel stabilizer if I think I won't be riding for awhile.

1018cc

Quote from: mr72 on March 24, 2019, 04:53:14 AM
You guys who say you are running ethanol fuel with no issues, I suggest that's just you don't know what the issues are yet. It'll ruin the o rings in the carbs and cause a lot more corrosion of brass parts particularly the float needle seat and pilot jet. But it'll probably take 5k miles or more of running E85 before you have symptoms show up while riding, like leaking fuel from carbs, sticking floats, unable to get the idle mixture dialed, etc. It just means you are on a 5k mile carb rebuild schedule. Normal gas may give you 3x that.
2.5 years and 40,000kms on mostly e10 here and I've never been in my carbs since I bought it (ridden regularly). Gs500 gets any fuel that is midly combustable (cheapest at the time).

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mr72

I said e85 and meant e15. We have 15% ethanol fuel here, and I have plenty of hard flat o rings and corroded jets and needle seats as evidence of bad things.

Bluesmudge

Interesting. No e15 in my area yet, thank goodness. I have heard that e15 is far worse than e10. Is e15 the default in your area or are most stations still e10?

qcbaker

Quote from: mr72 on March 27, 2019, 10:07:03 AM
I said e85 and meant e15. We have 15% ethanol fuel here, and I have plenty of hard flat o rings and corroded jets and needle seats as evidence of bad things.

Hmm. I don't have any experience with e15. You really think 5% more ethanol makes that much of a difference? e10 = basically no problems, but e15 = carb rebuild every 5K due to corrosion? Not saying it doesn't make the difference, just wouldn't think that small of a difference in blend would accelerate corrosion that much. :dunno_black:

mr72

Quote from: Bluesmudge on March 27, 2019, 10:12:38 AM
Interesting. No e15 in my area yet, thank goodness. I have heard that e15 is far worse than e10. Is e15 the default in your area or are most stations still e10?

well every pump here says "may contain up to 15% ethanol" which I think means "absolutely contains the maximum amount of ethanol allowed, which is 15%"


mr72

#15
Quote from: qcbaker on March 27, 2019, 10:25:45 AM
ve any experience with e15. You really think 5% more ethanol makes that much of a difference? e10 = basically no problems, but e15 = carb rebuild every 5K due to corrosion? Not saying it doesn't make the difference, just wouldn't think that small of a difference in blend would accelerate corrosion that much. :dunno_black:

No, I don't think it makes THAT much difference. And BTW it's not corrosion causing the carb rebuild, but o-rings failing to seal. Primarily that pilot jet o-ring will go bad and leak fuel causing the bike to run too rich at idle and you can't make it stop running rich. Eventually it may drip fuel from the pilot needle itself (this was what my dad's bike was doing, and my GS did this, twice).

Also the bike runs more lean with ethanol in the fuel than with straight gasoline, so issues of lean running are only exacerbated with e10 or e15. You may likely wind up jetting up to make it run right on E15. Of course this is why you might not notice things are going south because it will gradually run richer on pilot because of the o-ring going bad while running on fuel that makes it lean, so maybe it masks the problem. Fix the o-ring and keep running E15 and you may be trying to jet up.

FWIW a "rebuild" vs. "cleaning" the carb is very little difference in labor, only $30 worth of parts, so this is not like a huge big deal but E15 definitely causes degradation. Ride Apart recently had a story on it where the point out that none of the "22 million" motorcycles on the road today are officially compatible with E15:  https://www.rideapart.com/articles/314737/epa-e15-gasoline-year-round/

Since I can get non-ethanol gas I do so and run that in my GS. You guys do what you want :) I've had enough bad times with my carbs to just want to reduce the risk as much as possible. But if I am out on a trip and can't get ethanol-free fuel I don't sweat it, I just run what's in the pump until I get home and refill with non-eth.

Bluesmudge

#16
As I understand it from all the fear-mongering articles in motorcycle magazines, 15% is far worse that 10%. Its 50% more of the bad stuff. 10% ethanol is a critical threshold for engines designed to run pure gasoline and that's why its been the standard for awhile now.

If e15 became the standard I would also go out of my way to find a station that sells pure gasoline. Sorry you have to deal with that, mr72.

Meukowi

i once accidentally filled my tank full with e15, and after 50miles the carbs flooded gas thru the whole system, float needle got stuck

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