Yea.... buying a bunch of it, and not paying much more than last time... whoooo hooooo.... this after steel has doubled in $$$ in the last 6 months.... whooooo hooooo :cheers: Bars, new style, 01+ style etc are getting made... Yea just dont ask about the damn case savers...
Cool.
Srinath.
How are the case savers coming? :dunno:
Congratz!! :cheers:
Oh yea Dgyver.... :nana: :x :nana:
BTW The case savers are getting made too, but I am in training this week, and as such dont have time till the weekend. The deal with steel, You ahve to buy it when its there, they cant order a whole truck for my 20 feet, and their sales are lower now cos the $$$ have gone up, and many people are waiting on the projects that can wait that involve a lot of steel... So I called around and someone had it, and it was just pennies per lb more than last time... so I said whooo hooo.
Cool.
Srinath.
The Riddle of Steel - Thulsa Doom's Version
Yes! You know what it is don't you boy.
Shall I tell you? It's the least I can do.
Steel isn't strong boy, flesh is stronger!
Look around you.
There, on the rocks, that beautiful girl
Come to me my child..
That is strength boy! That is power!
What is Steel compared to the hand that wields it?
Look at the strength in your body,
the desire in your heart, I gave you this!
All this talk about steel now I can't get the above out of my head
:lol: have to admit did love the Conan movies.
But I digress
How long and how much for the handle bars with shipping to Australia
Thanks :thumb: :cheers:
Why does this seem like Ford announcing that it will sell Explorers with Firestones again?
QuoteThe Riddle of Steel
Conan the barbarian
AH nold and James Earl Jones
Yes yes firestone and Pinto with exploding gas tanks, and just to make sure I am going to give aaaaa...hnold some steel and have him bash the tanks....
Cool.
Srinath.
Excellent job deflecting through vaguely coherent attempts at humor, I for one am impresed. Srinath, your sophomoric levity lends a glimpse into your personality, showing quite clearly how you are able to continue making a product that is poorly conceived, you really don't take this seriously.
Handlebars are no place to cut corners, and your bars while admittedly altered from the state in which they failed, are still an unproven design. After the Firestone incident, Ford did dramatic redesigns to Explorers and following the subsequent recall, changed tire suppliers all together. Today, if Ford offered an Explorer with Firestones and there were an incident, Ford would be eaten alive by lawsuits.
Why tempt fate? Why assume that you can build a better bar when yours have failed in the past? Is there that much profit to be made? I doubt it. Are you producing an item that is universally unobtainable? Hardly. So why? Continuing to produce an inferior product makes no sense, and your flippant attitude in the face of serious considerations should be a stern warning to anyone wanting to buy a product from you. Potential buyers, is this the type of mentality you want backing the product your life depends on at every turn?
Aaron
:o whoa there, someone know's how to crash a good mood, i've been trying to get srinath to make me some bars, and after your little outburst there, i'd buy like 6 pairs if i had the money :roll:
if i bought bars from him, and i looked them over, and they didn't look safe, i wouldn't put them on my bike, end of story, but if i put them on, and something happened, that'd be my own fault,
They have aleady broken on at least 2 people. Exactly 2 too many. It would be your own fault only if you bought them without knowning their track record. We could only hope that you emerged from the wreckage well enough to realize that your bargain $40 handlebar turned out to be not such a great deal.
sorry, i'm new so could you please post a pic of the bars you make?
Are they lower?
Derek
Quote from: aplitzblah blah
after that nice long winded post I decided to read the recall post again, as I thought he had found the problem with the others and the way to fix it.
I'm wondering did you read that post before writing the above or just took it on yourself to make a complaint about something you only THOUGHT you knew, I'm sure if srinath was going to try again with them he will have learned from his previous mistakes.
You are right in 2 breaks are 2 too many but Ford and everyother manufacturer are still there producing vehicles and people still buy them because everyone makes mistakes as long as they learn from them.
So why not give the benefit of the doubt that they will come out correct and the lesson was learn't.
If you have read most of the post previous post on handle bars there are plenty aftermarket ones that flex and are made from crap materials.
But I will let Srinath speak for himself on this, well atleast some more, but as he has been a good source for info on this site we can allow the odd mistake (not to many though :lol: )
anyway take a chill pill calm down and let the man at least try with out whiners complaining to him
Quote from: 90gs500sorry, i'm new so could you please post a pic of the bars you make?
Are they lower?
Look at Srinath's avatar. They are clip-ons without being clip-ons, if you get what I mean.
Quote from: 90gs500sorry, i'm new so could you please post a pic of the bars you make?
Here are some pics of "Srinath Bars" mounted on
davipu's bike:
Pic 1 /
Pic 2 /
Pic 3 /
Pic 4EDIT: Changed links from sisna.com to bbburma.net
Quote from: aplitzThey have aleady broken on at least 2 people. Exactly 2 too many. It would be your own fault only if you bought them without knowning their track record. We could only hope that you emerged from the wreckage well enough to realize that your bargain $40 handlebar turned out to be not such a great deal.
No get your facts straight.... No objection to taking a shot at me... just dont skirt around the facts...
Facts ... They broke on 1 person... onefastvega in a crash.... no ordinary crash too, he hit a truck with the handle bar... literally. They broke. He put up pics... I saw them, printed out the pics and took them to my welder... he saw them and said Bad weld penetration... I issued a recall... Literally 2 hours after seeing the pics. I said take it off and send it back to me... and some people didn't. About a month later they broke on Mp3_eb_tool causing a crash. I was emailing him about sending it back, and at that time I had a alternate set made so I send those to people. He could have swapped them for the other ones, or sent the defective ones back or put the stock ones back on. So 1 broke due to a crash, and 1 broke much after the recall was issued causing a crash. The welds were ground off too much and that resulted in some that were weaker than others.
The third you dont know about.... someone had it break while riding around, he saw it slowly open up at the weld and he welded it up and emailed me. Of course it was after the recall was made. I took it back and swapped it for better made ones.
The rod being inserted in them, etc etc are all design features meant for making them many times stronger than stock. The 3/16 wall ones were strong as hell, I wanted the 1/8th wall to be just as strong. Hence the rod was inserted. I made a bunch of design upgrades and tested a lot more and ground off the welds a lot less.
The stock bars wont stand 1/10 of the force these will, but the stockers will not break, the stock is 1 piece, it will twist into a pretzel, and stay in 1 piece.
These are the facts, so now let the bullets fly.
BTW this run I think am going to do one of those X ray weld analysis on all of them before seliing them.. For independent confirmation ask davipu to run his bar under the analysis machine... he has access to one.
Oh BTW Davipu never told me he had a 01+, bought the bars that are meant for the 90-00 and has them pointed down, cos he liked it that way. When he stopped by my place on his way across the country, I gave him a choice of the 3 I had at home, some of which fitted better, but he stayed with the ones he had since that downward angle was best for him.... Honestly I wil break about 1/2 dozen before sending out any. Tested in many directions and in shear and twisting and bending.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: aplitzThey have aleady broken on at least 2 people. Exactly 2 too many. It would be your own fault only if you bought them without knowning their track record. We could only hope that you emerged from the wreckage well enough to realize that your bargain $40 handlebar turned out to be not such a great deal.
i wasn't saying something couldn't break, i was just saying that you're being a duck
How bout Case Savers? :P
Quote from: aplitzExcellent job deflecting through vaguely coherent attempts at humor, I for one am impresed. Srinath, your sophomoric levity lends a glimpse into your personality, showing quite clearly how you are able to continue making a product that is poorly conceived, you really don't take this seriously.
Handlebars are no place to cut corners, and your bars while admittedly altered from the state in which they failed, are still an unproven design. After the Firestone incident, Ford did dramatic redesigns to Explorers and following the subsequent recall, changed tire suppliers all together. Today, if Ford offered an Explorer with Firestones and there were an incident, Ford would be eaten alive by lawsuits.
Why tempt fate? Why assume that you can build a better bar when yours have failed in the past? Is there that much profit to be made? I doubt it. Are you producing an item that is universally unobtainable? Hardly. So why? Continuing to produce an inferior product makes no sense, and your flippant attitude in the face of serious considerations should be a stern warning to anyone wanting to buy a product from you. Potential buyers, is this the type of mentality you want backing the product your life depends on at every turn?
Aaron
OK no deflection... I thought we have gone over this a bunch of times... so didn't want to add to the discussion at that time, Conan was brought up by the others not me, I am not some self aggrandising politician to try to be serious and make me look better with every post, being silly when posting here has no bearing on how seroius I do my work ... I am the first usually to call my own bikes or things I have "piece of crap"... and its cost me many a sale. It has no bearing on how serious I take these things. Universally un obtainable... once again... $140 is in some people's eyes too much for handle bars. I have heard people say $40 is high. I in fact made a loss to date on handle bars. I always tell people about posts that people have made critisizing my work before they buy... I want them to know there is a different point of view also out there... because there are a lot of newbies that come up and look at information on here as gospel.
Cool.
Srinath.
see Srinath's long post a few above yours. It has an explanation in the last paragraph or so.
I don't understand why I need to check the facts. Because I underestimated the number of bars that broke? I don't care if they failed before or after your recall, there should have never been any need for a recall in the first place. You can't expect to get every bar back from a recall program in a timely manner or otherwise. I acknowledge that you took the correct steps to rectify the situation; however, I beleive that the ethical thing to do would have been to get out of the handlebar business altogether.
I am a member of a forum for boosted Volvos. We are a tight group, and have regional get togethers frequently. One of our members was travelling from Texas to New England, and was killed in a head-on accident in Arkansas. The membership was totally crushed, and to this day, his memory is carried on. Now imagine if his death could have been attribuited to a part made by a member of the forum. How much more horrible would that situation have been for all involved?
Now everyone will acknowledge that riding a motorcycle is much more of a controlled risk activity than driving a car, but why increase risk by throwing questionable components into the mix? I commend you for going to lengths to ensure your product's strength, but I still do not beleive that you have approached it correctly. Only time can prove if a bar will really work, testing in the shop (excluding x-ray analysis of course) cannot prove that the bars won't break, nor replicate the stresses of actual riding.
I ask why go to the lengths of that type of analysis when people can buy bars that are already proven, and thus remove you from any unfortunate circumstance that may occur?
Aaron
for all ya making fun of sesinthra bars...
just to say my stock ones have broken... does this mean that there bad?
why dont you guys shut up and leave the man alone
i rather pay 40 dollars anyday then about 140 he is trying to save all of ya money
y dont u say thnx and if u dont like them, dont buy them
Firstly sorry to hear about your friend from the Volvo group regardless of car make as I am sure others maybe cruel enough to make jokes re volvo.
But with attitude you are putting out about these bars is just WRONG there would not be a company in the world regardless of what they make that would not have made a faulty part for whatever be they car, bike or even vaccum cleaners, mistakes happen in industry and parts can be made badly by mistake, by the looks of it a mistake was made but thats why pencils have erasers these things can be fixed and made better.
I think it was said once (not sure) that he used thicker steel then other handlebar manufactures so apart from the weld problem these are probably better quality anyway and as you have probably noticed your reasons and posts are wasted as no one seems to agree with you.
Once again sorry to hear about your friend :(
hey, do the bars come black like that, and will they cause you to lean more when you ride, are they comfortable?
sorry for all the questions, i'm interested in them though...
Derek
the '92 I just bought had the srinath bars already on it, and they're great. I'm 6' 6", so the more "aggressive" riding position realy puts my in a better position on the bike--more weight forward.
Of course, I've never riden anything else, so I have nothing to compare them to.
Quote from: aplitz
I ask why go to the lengths of that type of analysis when people can buy bars that are already proven, and thus remove you from any unfortunate circumstance that may occur?
Aaron
What is the Proven product you are talking about... not stock bars for sure... they'd bend if you sneeze... heck I dont think there is a GS I bought that didn't have bent bars or I bend them in my use... SM's?? They will fix a bent or broken bar if you send it to them for some small fee you know... and what does that tell you... They bend or break too. Its metal, and its cut and mitered and jigged and welded... I dont know if they analyse the welds or not, and again I dont know what the analysis is going to show me... Oh BTW mine have 2 welds and SM's have 4. I have a rod inserted and welded in the 2 pieces at the weld and they dont... Its metal and even if their welds were perfect and that bar behaves like 1 piece of tubing... the bar still will bend on impact... and it will hit the tank before too long... Which is why I inserted a rod in them... they have to take a huge impact before making contact with the tank.
Cool.
Srinath.
If srinath doesn't continue making them, how will he ever make it into a "proven" product? EVERYONE has to start from somewhere. It's just like saying u'll only use windows and not linux cuz it's "proven", or that u'll keep using the space shuttle cuz it's "proven", so now that it's crashed it's "unproven"??? just because it costs more does not mean it's better.
If your comments about not liking them came after you have tried it out, those comments would be more appreciated. But saying something is crap before you even tried it out yourself is not legit. so you realise most people are just gonna ignore you. I for one am still gonna buy it.
so srinath pls pm me once u've finished making the ones for the '04.
Thanks.
Quote from: 90gs500hey, do the bars come black like that, and will they cause you to lean more when you ride, are they comfortable?
sorry for all the questions, i'm interested in them though...
Derek
You do lean further forward, and put more weight on your wrists... however your wrists are more naturally positioned instead of twisted 1/2 way to torture. Now the bars are almost exactly as heavy as a full stock assy with the weights attached, but the weight is in the whole bar not just all at the end... so they sorta vibrate less... although someone said they vibrated more, like a lot lot more... I dont remember who or what they did later to fix it, I think some thing between the triple clamp and top plate was messed up and they put in some inner tube there ... The handling is improved for 2 reasons... 1 your weight gets lower to the ground from leaning forward more, and the bars are going to take the wind off your chest and hence the sail effect is lowered. Als them being shorter in width and more rigid, they sorta make you hardwired to the forks and give better feed back and make you more aware of the front wheel's responses. And oh yea more of your weight is on the front wheel, so helps braking a bit too. OK The bars are black yes, however I have the case savers that are comming up on a completion, and these and I have those other pseudo clip on's... and that almost is a laaaarge enough batch to get powder coating economical. I said If there were a 100 they'd cost $2 a set, well we have a decent number if they all get made in the next few weeks. 50 case savers (25 pairs), ~15 bars, 10 clip on's... getting up there to make it worthwhile to powder them up. Black still but powder coated. I dunno, dont want to make many promises... those case savers are the biggest disaster to ever bite me in the ass.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: KeLIf srinath doesn't continue making them, how will he ever make it into a "proven" product? EVERYONE has to start from somewhere. It's just like saying u'll only use windows and not linux cuz it's "proven", or that u'll keep using the space shuttle cuz it's "proven", so now that it's crashed it's "unproven"??? just because it costs more does not mean it's better.
If your comments about not liking them came after you have tried it out, those comments would be more appreciated. But saying something is crap before you even tried it out yourself is not legit. so you realise most people are just gonna ignore you. I for one am still gonna buy it.
so srinath pls pm me once u've finished making the ones for the '04.
Thanks.
I'll let you know for sure... But I think the bars i ahve should fit and clear the fairing just fine... I'll let you know for sure though.
Cool.
Srinath.
Unfortunately the right thing is not always popular.
aplitz, have you ever walked into a walmart? they've got an entire wall of recalls, it's rediculous to read some of the descriptions on those things, you'd think they were intentionally trying to kill your children, i'd like to see you walk into a store like that, point at the wall, and tell them they screwed up, and they need to get out of the retail business,
as long as we're still trusting srinath enough to buy his bars, then let him make them, if we still wanna buy them after some broke, that's our fault, not his
Quote from: seshadri_srinathNow the bars are almost exactly as heavy as a full stock assy with the weights attached, but the weight is in the whole bar not just all at the end... so they sorta vibrate less...
Sorry, but you seem to misunderstand the physics here. Bar end weights aren't so much about "how much vibration", but about resonance frequency. Heavy bar ends move resonce frequency down. Hopefully below the practical RPM range, so you run "over-critical". Having the mass distributed over the whole bar will move resonance up in comparison. So does a stiffer tube (more material in the tube vs more material in the bar end.) So does a shorter bar.
All these changes will also reduce vibration amplitude, but if you are unlucky enough, you will just end up with the bars resonating at an important RPM range. (Think GS tank at 5000 RPM (yeah, as if the tank revolves :D).)
Getting rid of resonance vibrations is kind of the black magic of engineering.
OK I wasn't too clear... cos well I am not that clear on the idea myself...
The 4 aspects that make the vibes less, The bar is shorter than stock, the bar is at a different angle than stock, the bar puts more rider weight on it, the bar is thicker than stock... My 89 vibrated through the bars a lot less than the 90 I had for a good couple years, and I thought my 89 was just well balanced... then last year I rode another 89, and it felt just silky smooth... which is when I thought, the weight, the angle, the length etc all make a diff. Then I started fitting these to other bikes, and immediately they started vibrating less.... maybe they just vibrate at a higher rpm... where you may not notice that much. The bars made one bike more buzzy, I forget who... but hopefully he'll read this post and chime in.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: aplitzUnfortunately the right thing is not always popular.
You are basing being the right thing on the fact that its not popular.... the wrong things also arent always popular ...
"Its not the right thing as long as you ignore facts"
In all honestly though I appreciate the comments, I cant change the facts... especially those that are in the past... but its pushing me to be more innovative in design and more rigorous in my testing and more particular in material and tools selection .... I also send the links to these type of posts to people that ask me if they should switch to the bars I make... and I tell them what I think, and I point them to the opponents view as well... Helps balance it out for someone who doesn't know.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: MarkusNQuote from: seshadri_srinathNow the bars are almost exactly as heavy as a full stock assy with the weights attached, but the weight is in the whole bar not just all at the end... so they sorta vibrate less...
Sorry, but you seem to misunderstand the physics here. Bar end weights aren't so much about "how much vibration", but about resonance frequency. Heavy bar ends move resonce frequency down. Hopefully below the practical RPM range, so you run "over-critical". Having the mass distributed over the whole bar will move resonance up in comparison. So does a stiffer tube (more material in the tube vs more material in the bar end.) So does a shorter bar.
All these changes will also reduce vibration amplitude, but if you are unlucky enough, you will just end up with the bars resonating at an important RPM range. (Think GS tank at 5000 RPM (yeah, as if the tank revolves :D).)
Getting rid of resonance vibrations is kind of the black magic of engineering.
I read this slowly, trying to remember what each of the physics terms means... and yes the amplitude is what seems to decrease... the high frequency buzz is very much there... that heavy shaking sorta feeling is gone.... which is what the bikes I tried it on did.
Cool.
Srinath.
are they meant to angle down so much like the pictures show or can you have them at less of a downward slope?
Derek
Davipu actually has the 90-00 spec bars... he didn't tell me its an 01 before buying it... and the has them fitted nearly straight up and down. Typically you'd fit it almost flat on the triple clamp... making the downward angle much less steep. They should be ~10 degrees down and ~ 30 degrees back. Of course a 01+ I think will be more like 28 degrees back... else it might hit the tank.
Cool.
Srinath.
if I would buy a set, could I return them if they didn't fit me well?
Just a question.
Derek
OK Yes you can, but we'll lose a bunch of $$$ shipping both ways. I have had people buy it and re sell it to someone near by. You can do that... If you dont like it, and someone near you wants one, I'll send them over to you. So I guess it helps to buy one of the first. I believe I am only making 10-12 for the old (90-00) and 3-4 for 01+... and that should also fit the 04+.
Cool.
Srinath.
the bars do sit lower causing you to lean more correct cause thats more of the look i want with this....
Derek
Srinath-
I don't know what facts I am ignoring. I stated that two of your bars broke when in fact three did. I believe that your 'upgrades' to strengthen the bars are mechanically a band-aid at best. What did I misrepresent? My opinion and the facts come together to form what I have said. My assertions, which you disagree with, are not necessecarily inaccurate just because your opinions differ.
TT Four-
In order for your Wal-Mart analogy to work, you will have to modify it a little. I consider Srinath the manufacturer rather than the retailer since he has direct control over the construction of the bars. In your analogy, I would have to go into Wal-Mart, point at the wall, and tell all the manufacturers to get out of (insert business here). In many cases I would do that very thing.
There are some businesses like child safety seats, helmets, smoke detectors, ect. that I take deadly seriously. Their sole reason for existance is to protect someone's life, and people put their full faith in such products. Having a recall on these type of products is reprehensible. Most of the time, the consumer won't know if such a product is defective until it fails (ie, car seat, helmet). In the case of Srinath's bars, people (except for the third instance) didn't know the bar was failing until it was too late. The motorcycle handlebar is the rider's critical connection for control of the bike.
To lose half of one's bar while riding is an abrupt, and catastropic event. I had that happen to me while riding BMX, and it was one of the worst wrecks I've ever had since the kinetic energy released when it broke caused serious momentum behind my body, and I came down partially down an my front wheel. Now imagine that on the pavement at speed.
I don't know haw many of you have been down on a motorcycle, but in my experience it was a horrible, painful, impossible to forget incident. My riding suffers to this day with that moment haunting my thoughts and the sounds to my body hitting the pavement echoing in my ears. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, and would hate for anyone to experience a freeway lowside courtesey of a poorly engineered and executed bar.
KeL-
I consider a 'proven' product one that has substantal R&D. I know that Srinath tested his bars, but in companies that do this type of thing all the time, they would have put much more testing into them. Srinath's bars that broke were essentially Beta testing models, so it is not surprising that some failed. A company in the business of making motorcycle bars would have been deep into their third or fourth generation before selling to the general public.
The early failures, and an apparent misunderstanding of how a motorcyle bar needs to function are the main reasons that I object to Srinath's continued production. As I stated before, the bar should be the first part to bend in a tip over or wreck, sacrificing itself to protect the triples, forks, and related componetry. However, it should not ever fail at a weld. If welds are correctly executed they will be as strong as the remainder of the bar, and bend as if they were one piece (because with correct penetration they are).
I understand you guys all defending Srinath, and commend you for loyalty, I simply challenge you to inspect your own agendas and make sure that loyalty and friendship are not clouding a situation that would have normally appalled you. I do not care what you all think of me, but I do appreciate the fact that for the most part you have collectively refrained from personal attacks and name calling.
Aaron
so what about the case gaurds, and if you want to let me barrow a set of 01+ bars I can take pics of them on my buddies 04, when i get back.
Hey Davipu,
How was the ride cross country ... damn man we want to know.
Hey Aplitz...
2 broke after I issued the recall, and 1 broke in a crash before the recall and that is the fact you ignored. OnceI recall them and people have taken them off like I told them to the 2 would never have happened. But ... OK weld should never fail...agreed, but here is 2 things you are forgetting... the weld is as strong as the rest of the bar, except the part right next to the weld. That has been heated to glowing red and cooled suddenly, they all tear there. My first iteration is lying on the floor of my garage, the second is on Gino's bike... which I have been trying to get back for the last 6 months... the third iteration was one of the ones I still have but its been broken and welded back many times after, the fourth iteration is what I sold. Simply put... we ground off the welds to nothing. The 5th iteration is the rod inside. The rod is no band aid.In fact if someone is making handlebars for a GS with anything thinner than 3/16 wall and is not using an insert... that is wrong.... Why... a easier to bend bar does not save other components... An easier to bend bar just dents your tank and breaks the dash and other delicates in a crash. The stock bar can be easy to bend because it is above the tank. It will bend and not hit the tank in some cases. Crash hard and the bars will bend letting the tank hit the ground and dent itself as well. In the case of SM's they have not thought of that in terms of the GS. The first few I made from 1/8th wall, then switched to 3/16 for this reason, the welds being ground off was just idiotic, and I wasn't watching the guy do it... My mistake, I know. The handle bar going on a GS has to be extremely hard to bend, and a 1/8th wall wont do. A 3/16 will be fine, but a 1/8th with rod insert as anchor works the same. No bandaid. Its to make them as strong as the 3/16th. You have not seen th process or debated with any other handle bar manufacturer, and hence I can only assume you are talking mostly out of here say ... which could be quite accurate not disputing that, but SM does not even fit the bars on a GS, one of us did it first and probably told them, and hence they list it there now... I think it was Pantablo, SM also repairs bars that bend or break, and if they bend or break guess what their bars also hit... the tank. If you are only talking about bikemasters, flanders or MSR or other aftermarket superbike style makers I'll fully concede that they are proven... why... they are 1 piece and are designed to run 3-4 inches above the tank. Nothing that is cut and welded, and is level with the tank/triple... can be less than 3/16 or not have a 1/2 inch rod inserted it its 1/8th. It wont be strong enough to let the tank come through un scathed in even a light crash. The bars dont have to bend to save the triple... the triple is in there in rubber doughnuts, and you will chew up those doughnuts if the triple has enough force... that's its function. I have on my 89 in a crash in 2000. Bars staying rigid will save your tank in most cases and the dash and headlights and turnsignals in a crash. Mine bent in a banana and left a big dent in the tank. This is an 89 BTW so the bars are already the low ones. And ther are far more rigid than the 90 and later ones cos they are shorter. You really dont want the low rise bars to bend or break at all on the GS.
Cool.
Srinath.
Seriously, aplitz, you are driving me nuts. I trust srinath 10 times more than I trust suzuki, and I've never met him. A major corporation that puts out bargain stuff ala suzuki cuts corners everywhere to keep manufacturing costs down. Plus when they have failures, the accountants carefully weigh the cost of lawsuits against the cost of a recall. THATs what got ford in so much trouble, they were trying to hush the whole thing up.
I remember when Srinath found out the bars had the weld problem and he felt terribly. He had the problem analyzed and dealt with it with more than enough factor of safety. I was actually, incredibly impressed by his handling of the whole affair, both professionaly and personally. I'm even more impressed how he's handling your uncalled for aggressive badgering.
If you're so scared of his handlebars, then don't get them and leave the guy alone. He doesn't deserve that kind of crap from the likes of you.
Diderich-
You may think that my comments are uncalled for. However, I believe that any failure of such a critical component is inexcusable. In life there are consequences for one's actions, and I don't see Srinath having to endure any consequences. Although he did shoulder the cost of making replacement bars, that is just a minimal consequence. Exactly who do you trust him more? So far he has had three failures, all of which were potential catastrophies. I would consider him and extremely lucky person who is now pushing his luck.
I am in no way saying that Suzuki is perfect. They do have a much longer development cycle that was not completed in this case. I called the bars Beta models because they were from the first generation of design following the initial mock-ups. They may have been made steps after the first ones, but there does not seem to have been any evolution of the design along with thurough testing. If there had been, and some bars broke, then the problem would have been addressed in the next generation. Apparently this did not take place.
Additionally, I disagree that he has fully addressed the problem. Adding rod into the bars does not make the welds themselves stronger. All it does is serve a backing material that can accept penetration. Unless he is drilling through the bar on either end of a weld and plug welding the bar to the inserted rod there is no more strength there than before. In fact, it is very likely that the welds may be weaker since more heat is required to get penetration into both bar parts as well as the solid rod. A light duty MIG will not have the output to achieve this, so a serious industrial machine would be necessecary.
Aaron
Damn!!
I cant believe what a dickhead Aplitz is being about the whole situation!!
Makes me want to call up srinath and order a set of bars to fix my bike with.
A.
how many times do you need to be told that only one persons bars broke before the recall? even if 15 bars snapped after than, and half the people ended up in the hospital, that's not srinaths fault after he told people to take the bars off, so as of right now, he stands at making one mistake by filing down the welds too far, and he didn't make any guaruntees or promises, he made the handlebars, and sold them, it's anyone's job who bought the handlebars, to acctually look at them, and decide for themselves if they thought they were safe enough to put on their bike, which they should do if it was srinaths bars, suzuki bars, or suburban machinery bars, it really doesn't matter, just get off it already, or else accept this method of fail once and give up, and next time when you try to teach your kid to ride a bicycle, and he falls off and hurts his arm, or you're teaching him to play catch, and he misjudges and gets a baseball in the face, realize you screwed up, don't deserve to be a father, and put the kid up for adoption, is that how this is supposed to work? or is that analogy wrong too?
People who have arguments with little strength must resort to name calling in order to make any impact.
How many times do I have to say that I don't care when the bars broke? The fact that any broke at all is utterly wrong. I agree that the customer must beware when purchasing a product, but there is a certain expectation of engineering that one would expect in this type of item. It does not matter if he made any promises as to the bars effectiveness. He was selling handlebars, not 'amazing break away stunt magic bars!'
They were were billed as handlebars and the expectation of such a crucial item is that they would stay together. If they easily developed surface rust, or caused a strange riding position I honestly would not care. Those are quality control issues. Fracturing welds is an engineering problem, and one that cannot be cured by an 'Oops, I'm sorry.' This goes beyond any issue that anyone should ever expect to encounter in the important components of their motorcycle.
Aaron
OK I guess everyone is sitting away at the computer on a saturday...
OK The first gen bars were cut and welded in 4 places just like the SM's, and I thought they were not strong enough after breaking them that I tossed them wihtout ever fititng it on the bike, the second gen was also welded in 4 places, and it was strong, but a little crooked. I had Gino's bike at my house then, had him see and feel the bars and he wanted them on in place of his drag bars. I wanted someone to try it, so I gave him those free. The third gen I bent the center piece and now the bars had 2 welds, not 4. I also was getting consistent fit and strength... and I went to using 3/16 wall because I wanted the strength ...since these are level with the tank, any deflection of these will hurt the tank, so these have to be strong. At this point people were saying the welds were ugly and the bars look crappy etc... so I was telling one guy that I wanted them smooth as possible ... the rest as they say is history. Then when I made the recall, I had to have bars made which were as strong as the 3/16th's, and I couldn't wait the month for 3/16 tubing to come. Hence I inserted a rod... and you said drilled and plug welded... if you had seen any of the 20 or so pics I posted up... you'd have known... exaclty what I did. Fit them in the straight pieces and weld them in, then drill 3/8 holes in the center piece weld the bars into that... take them off the jig and twist them around... making sure the rod is welded to the tubing, then welding it all the way around. And yes I also have the weld faces on the bars ground to be a convergent trench sorta fit when put together, bevelled in technical terms. Like I said... no band aid. This run I am in gen 6, OK same as gen 5 moslty, but I am analysing the welds with one of them X ray things. And suzuki bars have bent when someone I know was about to set the bike on the side stand, and as it begins to go down, they realize the side stand is not down... and then pull up on the bars to keep it from going down. I dont say I am not responsible for any of the damage caused from the bars breaking... and yes I do believe I got lucky... I was alerted to the problem when an unrelated accident happened. And yes I know there were 2 guys that have had it break, but many more contnued using it months after the recall, when either replacements were on the way or they were going to take it off and send it.. and none broke, the ones that sent them to me... I promptly put them in the vice and broke them, and they all took a good deal of muscle before they snapped. And not all of them failed clean at the weld... while some did... it was only after a good deal of load.... something you'll never see on a bike. I would pretty much conclude... out of the 30... or close I made 3 or less had been ground to nothing in the set I first sold. OK there are still a few that have not come back to me... what else do I do... go to their house and take it... :? Anyway hope that cleared up some of it. I posted a lot ofpics from last time... I will try to do it this time as well, but I have gone past the cut and bend stages, just the drill and weld is left on 1 lot. 01+'s I haven't even started...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: aplitz
How many times do I have to say that I don't care when the bars broke? The fact that any broke at all is utterly wrong.
that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard, you can't expect anything to not break, there's not a single thing on earth that won't brake, if you're not willing to face the chances of getting hurt, you shouldn't be riding down the road going 50mph on two wheels anyway, if that's all you're worried about, you better stick to parking your bike in the garage and looking at it, cause that's the only way nothing's gonna break on it, i've had handlebars bend, footpegs snap, tires go flat, all within the last year of riding, and only being 20 years old, i know there's gonna be a ton more stuff to go while my bike's under me in the next 50 years, all i can do is wear all my gear and have fun while it's all in one peice, and as of right now, i can't wait to get my new handlebars, i promise, if you stop complaining, we won't hold it against you,
Quote from: tt_fourhow many times do you need to be told that only one persons bars broke before the recall? even if 15 bars snapped after than, and half the people ended up in the hospital, that's not srinaths fault after he told people to take the bars off, so as of right now, he stands at making one mistake by filing down the welds too far, and he didn't make any guaruntees or promises, he made the handlebars, and sold them, it's anyone's job who bought the handlebars, to acctually look at them, and decide for themselves if they thought they were safe enough to put on their bike, which they should do if it was srinaths bars, suzuki bars, or suburban machinery bars, it really doesn't matter, just get off it already, or else accept this method of fail once and give up, and next time when you try to teach your kid to ride a bicycle, and he falls off and hurts his arm, or you're teaching him to play catch, and he misjudges and gets a baseball in the face, realize you screwed up, don't deserve to be a father, and put the kid up for adoption, is that how this is supposed to work? or is that analogy wrong too?
Not to nit pick... This seems like the classic " same side goal "in soccer where you knock the ball in your team's goal... but... 1 bar broke in a hard crash... 2 broke a few weeks after I started screaming recall. And you couldn't actually see they were bad... they were smooth and painted over and they all looked good even before painting. The bars also stood up to putting in a vice and pulling on it. Put a 8ft pipe over it and pull it and they snapped that's just the ones that came back to me.
Cool.
Srinath.
tt_four wrote:
Quotethat's the dumbest thing i've ever heard
Surely that must be an exaggeration (but if its not at least I have amazed you in some way) :) . Just because you believe that its OK for handlebars to break, does not mean that they should not. I believe that there are some things that we use that should be relitavely failure free while in use. Helmets, smoke detectors, major vehicle components, etc. The reason that the handlebars failing while in use bothers me so much is the fact that they are your only link to the majority of your bike's controls. Like yourself, I have had numerous equipment failures while operating vehicles in the past. I will not however turn this into a pissing contest where we try to one up each other with horror stories. Suffice to say that I've had my share.
The difference is that most vehicle components have a back up or some other contingency to ensure safe operation. For instance, while I was backing my company's Cat motor grader off its trailer, the hydraulic brakes failed. I had to shift into a forward gear and use the clutch and emergency crank brake to stop the Cat from hitting the house we were building. I say this to illustrate the levels of control we have in the operation of a compromised vehicle.
In the case to a bar breaking at a weld while moving, if you by some miracle manage to stay on the bike, you are probably SOL in regaining control since you will loose either your front brake and kill switch together or clutch as well as directional control from half of your bars. In your discussion, a failed tire leaves you with your other brake as well as clutch and handlebars to control the bike. A failed brake leaves the other intact since they are exclusive systems (on the GS). A broken foot peg will in most cases, excluding extreme cornering and stand up wheeling, probably leave you still on the bike with numerous methods of bringing the bike to a stop. The bars are your way of having control over the primary operations of the bike, and the handlebars must be as trustworthy as possible.
This is what blows my mind about people defending Srinath's bars. His product violated an extremely important trust, yet several people have expressed that they trust him to the Nth degree. Why? Because of his reputation on this board? Because he knows so much about the GS? Because you like his online personality? What makes him so trustworthy? In reality, we only know as much about each other as we share here. We cannot know enough soley from contrived interactions in an internet forum to make such statements of trust.
And yes TT I would reccomend that you get out of making analogies since there are some problems with that last one too.
I admire Srinath for his willingness to confront his mistakes, and commend him on attempting to make the product better this time around. What I wonder it is that makes building your own bars worth all the risk? The potential injury to fellow riders, legal liability, cost of recall, time invested, etc, weighs against what great reward? Accolades for a good, inexpensive product? What exactly it is that makes this so rewarding to overcome potential disadter is not readily apparent.
I'm confident that the newest bars will be failure free; however, I think we all thought the same thing the first time around. What my major issue revolves around is the protection of the community. This forum is an invaluable resource, and as I've said before, I would hate to see it tainted by the loss of a member due to another's product. I feel that sourcing such vital components from outside our tight circle may save a great deal of heartache down the road.
Its not that others' components are so vastly superior or failure proof, but they are not your internet buddy. As I shared before, the loss of a club member in a violent accident is an experience that weighs heavy on any club, and the addition of finger pointing toward another member outweighs any value that could be gleaned from producing one's own handle bars. It is myopic to neglect one's intelligence by failing to play out future events as they are effected by current actions.
Aaron
Aaron, its sweet that you are so concerned about Srinaths legal and financial situation and time, and the mental fragility of all of us on the board. You're right, if we wait ANOTHER 15 years of production, someone might start making aftermarket parts for the GS.
Also, my handlebars have TWO handles. Judging from the track instructor waving at me as he passed me on the outside of turn 7...i have to conclude that I don't need BOTH of my handles...hell I've proven to myself that I can turn and stop without touching the handlebars at all...the chicks dig that trick, or so I tell myself.
I also have TWO brakes, I don't even use the cut off unless i'm already stopped and...hmmmmm...only one clutch..you got me there, but as I recall, the wheel spins the sprocket spins the chain spins the transmission, spins the clutch spins the crank...nope..nothing shoots up my ass and lays eggs in my brain! I might get a ticket for not signalling if the left bar snaps off. True, true, it COULD snap off and get tangled in a wheel or something, or a car could pull out in front of me, or I could suddenly have a stroke from worrying about everything all the time.
You obviously feel strongly about this, but I feel you are slandering Srinath wrongly, with blatant scare tactics. You are like corporate culture incarnate or something. To think that an actual, unincorporated human beings can't make things of their own two hands, is weird to me. Feel free to object, but this is my last post on this subject.
OK man, finally it makes sense, atleast to me... all this time I thought you were pushing something (SM's I thought). I will do a weld X ray, possibly have davipu do it as well for a neutral test. I'll put up pictures of the whole construction process again... and say that these are the facts, however they are not implying any further guarantee just because I am on this site. I got the design, and the method to a perfect set, getting identical results in both shape and strength. I dont want to stop at this point. The GS has been looooong ignored by the aftermarket and continues to be ignored... heck even suzuki is ignoring it... These are made on a GS, they fit it like a glove. Stopping at this time will be also IMHO as bad as putting out a bad product... Ok not as bad but you get the idea. If any one else wants to do this I'll show you how... the knowledge is free. So make your own. I cant send you the jig though, its on a big plate at my welders with the other jigs he has. But I made a few wihtout a jig in the begining and they were OK. How is that guys.
Cool.
Srinath.
Diderich-
There are aftermarket parts for the GS you have to hunt a little and be willing to pay moe than $20 for something. As Srinath is aware, it takes time and an investment to produce a product. That is why aftermarket parts cost money. The GS does not have huge support because itis a starter bike that people generally trade up from quickly. However, I have found some really great parts for my bike.
Taking your hands off the bars to wave, and otherwise riding without full contact with the bike is so vastly different from having one half catastrophically fail that they cannot be compared.
If you lose your left handlebar, and in the unlikely event that the kinetic energy of your body weight does not hurl you onto the pavement, you may have some trouble stopping cleanly. The same goes for losing throttle and kill control. What makes this portion of the discussion so irrelevant is that you will probably not be on the bike anymore. As I said before, in my BMX incident, gravity deposited me directly onto my front wheel when the bar failed.
Srinath-
If I was pushing something I really suck at it. By this point I should have at least mentiond the product at least once. If you feel that your new design is better (which I would agree with from your changes thus far) than only you can decide if its worth the risk to continue. I believe that we were very lucky that the earlier incidents did not turn out a badly as they could have, and I thought that some perspective was necessecary in order to look at this matter in an honest way. While personally I think that the consequence of such a terrible failure should be ceasing production, I understand the desire to perfect and proceed. I only ask that you build each bar as if your own life rested on their grips.
Aaron
Absolutely man... Actually you gave me an Idea... OK OK, I thought about it the whole damn day...
I understand where you are comming from... simply put... you dont want one of us killing/hurting another of us... that will be twice or more... the pain.
I also dont want to sell my bars with a warning label... saying use at your risk... so here is the idea....
Watch the page...
Cool.
Srinath.
how bout this~!!!
srintath----- I want ur fairing (haha), and i love how ur trying to help us to find alternatvie ways of saving money! good 4 you!!
aplitz---- -sorry kid but we got ur point, "you dont like srinthath or his bars" good for you!!! :)
but serously you made your point GET OFF HIS BACK!! :guns: :o
diderich------ IM with you, i go for the cheap stuff ( i have o dollars)
im saving up for a gsxr 1
tt-four----- "that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard, you can't expect anything to not break, there's not a single thing on earth that won't brake,"
what u said right there rocks...
for all of u doubting him, do u know those plastic water bottles ( tht r supposly unbreakable) i brake them for fun during track season
anything can brake even named "unbreakable"
srinthath never said they wouldn't brake.... there strongg though
strong strong
and they rock thnx!!
i lost many a little black combs when i was younger, all because someone felt the need to imprint "unbreakable" real big on the side, and when you're a kid, all you can think is "i'll show that comb what's up", poor combs :dunno:
Right, cuz when I think handle bar I think plastic combs, I for one know my life is dependant on the structural intregity of my comb. In a wreck or other extreme force you should not expect any bar to come through without breaking. The difference is that one of the original bars failed while someone was riding in a parking lot. If you think its OK for a handle bar to break why not fab one thogether with tubing and JB Weld? I think that Srinath has been making big strides in the right direction, and commend him on his composure. I wish you the best of luck in the next run.
Aaron
we got a baby
put me down for handlebars that fit on a 96. black powder coating would be nice too, but not necessary if it isn't going to be economical.
Thanks Srinath
Quote from: aplitzRight, cuz when I think handle bar I think plastic combs, I for one know my life is dependant on the structural intregity of my comb
man, just let it go already, the point we were trying to get across, is that there is nothing that can't be broken, even when it is labeled "unbreakable", it'll still break, you're just looking for someone to argue with
Powder coating will work this run, I think, I have that monstro number of case guards, which has been an on going project for soooooo looooong they all have a smattering of rust, so I cant just paint them, and that is the bulk of the quantity... and should cost OK for the bars.
Cool.
Srinath.
please put me down for a set of case guards when/if you have enough. Incidentally, I love the bars--the former owner put them on my '92 and they feel great.
I wish I knew how to weld...mmmm...welding...
Yea That Tricked 500 dude... he hasn't sent me the old bars yet. I am out of 4 bars of which 2 guys haven't even send it to get it fixed or asked for a replacement... I am in touch with both... so not like somehting bad happened to them.
Cool.
Srinath.
aplitz - I, for one, agree with the principle of your discussion.
Folks, he's pointing out the potential danger of the srinath bars. The fact that the bars have broken on account of poor craftsmanship is a fact, whether it happens before/after a recall. What if someone bought them then sold all his worldly possessions (no email, no phone), and toured the world on his little GS?
I'm not anti-Srinath bars, and I'm not saying don't buy them. By all means support your local board member whenever possible. Srinath should be respected for taking the measures he has to correct the problem. But, likewise, aplitz should be respected for presenting his viewpoint and making people aware of potential safety issues. Perhaps he seemed harsh, but it was well-thought and articulate response - not just random flames. Besides, we all know Srinath likes a little controversy.
It's often easy to overlook the facts when there's something/someone we really want to believe in. I think in another situation with similar potential consequences, many here would feel much differently.
That said, I've a feeling the 2nd generation bars will be indestructible.
Good luck!!!!
Quote from: chimivee<snip> Besides, we all know Srinath likes a little controversy.
Good luck!!!!
Oh yea.... :guns: :guns: :guns: Chimivee.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: seshadri_srinath
Oh yea.... :guns: :guns: :guns: Chimivee.
:cheers:
I was thinking about this today, and I wondered how everyone would feel if there were a rash of broken SM (or some other maker's) bars? I would be livid, and I think everyone else would be too. Just because this was a case of a well liked little guy with a good repuation making a mistake, it should not be glossed over or apologized away. If I were Srinath I would be embarassed to have some of the people defending me that have spoken up, sine they apparently did not have rhetoric at their respective learning institutions, and thus do not understand the concepts of fallacy and successful argument. Srinath himself has been a stand up guy, and I know that he will make sure that no more problems arise. Best of luck.
Aaron
Hey man... the same argument applies to you too... You are also talking about things you have not seen. You said insert the rod and drill holes in the pieces and weld the rod to the outer tubing... when, that was exactly what I was doing. SM is a nameless face less corporation, or close enough. The bars they make for $140 I can make for under ~$80 a piece, and I know I am paying 2-3 times what they do for material, and probably 2-3 times what they pay for labor as well. I pretty much sell these for just about 20% more than waht they cost, and that doesn't actually include running around buying material and shipping these to people. I would like to hear points of view from people who have bought and used these. Both the set that broke and the ones I make now. The others have seen posts from both sides, and my pictures from before possibly ... and made their judgement. I dont see anything worng in that. The fact is... stand up little guy or not (hey when did I become little... I am 230+ lbs on a good day) I have put more facts on the table via pictures and information ... which SM or other nameless faceless corp cannot compete with ... simply put ... there are no secrets in my set up. Hence people like it more. I have even offered to sell the pieces that need to be welded up... so you can take it to your preferred welder. Some people may take that option... though not in the exact sense I was aiming for... :lol:
Cool.
Srinath.
Srinath-
If yo remember I brought up this issue before in another thread. I felt that you dodged the issue and I was left with the feeling that you still had some explaining to do. So, I really came on hard and pushed the issue this time arround, fully acknowledging the fact that I did not know everything. Still, it took several rounds of replies and pushing before the full explanation of everything came out. No one (except you) could have known the full story, so I had to assume some fact based on what I could gather, expecting that I would be corrected. Now that you defended yourself and your product, I have a better feeling about the situation.
Aaron
The rod in and welded to both sides were well documented in pics and text I posted a few months back. But I did not use the word Plug welded... that is courtesy you.
Cool.
Srinath.