Hi, I just finished my first month of riding after my msf course. I've taken it slow and things have gone pretty well. I have a few miscellaneous questions that I'm sure someone can answer.
First, where I live we have some hills and curvy roads to go with it. Going uphill is fine, but I find going down hill I can't follow the general guidelines. If I roll on the throttle even a little I find that I'm coming out of the curves too fast, especially when there are a series of curves. The best I can do to not brake in the curves is to keep completely off the throttle through the curve so that some engine braking keeps my speed constant. But this seems wrong, especially since I've got a lot of weight on the front. Some kind of braking in the turn has to occur to keep my speed in check since the linked curves give me no chance to really come upright and slow down. What's the best practice in this situation?
Second, when I rest my right foot on the footpeg and my foot is over the rear brake I end up with some rear brake applied, probably minimal but it triggers the brake light. To compensate I have been keeping the ball of my foot on the peg. This makes it hard to use the rear brake during the most important part of braking - right in the beginning when there is most weight on the rear tire. I tried adjusting the rear brake lever a little, and even though that is easy the brake light will still come on at the same point due to the mechanics of the lever. So it's hard to ride with my foot over the lever. What do y'all do with your right foot???
Finally, hill starts. I have been using the rear brake to hold the bike while engaging the clutch into the friction zone then taking off. This definitely requires more practice on my part :). Is this the right approach for hill starts?
Thanks for any and all advice. The past month has been a blast.
Matt V
'94 GS500
If your speed is constent, then there is nothing to worry about. The weight distribution of the bike won't change dramaticaly unless you are accelerating or decelerating. Take the turns at constant speed, or even better yet roll on the throtly a LITTLE.
Try to keep your foot NEXT to the peg. That's right... stick the toes out as if you are diging your heals into the bike. This should make the brake accessible at any time. (you should be able to feel the break pedal with the side of your foot.)
Youve got the Hillstarts Right! Good Job.
Welcome to the sport.
BTW: the area you described you live in sounds like alot of fun to ride around.
Cheers
-Denis
Hi Matt,
With a whole month of experience under my belt myself (heh) please allow me to contribute my couple of cents.
As for navigating twisties, for the most part I'm with Denis -- although I've found that as long as I enter the first of the curves at a reasonable speed, I can (very slowly) roll on the throttle as I've been taught. If I feel I'm going a little fast, I use the (albeit brief) moment when upright between turns to brake slightly. It's been enough so far. You can always straighten out early in a turn and brake harder if you need to.
As for right foot placement, I tried what Denis recommends but really don't find it comfortable -- positioning my foot toes-out tended to put me a little off balance and put my right knee farther from the gas tank than I'd like. I prefer to keep the balls of both feet firmly on the pegs, repositioning as required to change gears or apply the brake. Symmetry on a bike is a Good Thing. When I first started riding it was awkward, but I quickly grew accustomed to it. Consider that when you drive, your right foot isn't constantly hovering over the brake -- yet you can (hopefully) stop fairly quickly given a reason.
Take care,
Cort
QuoteI tried adjusting the rear brake lever a little, and even though that is easy the brake light will still come on at the same point due to the mechanics of the lever.
The brake light signal switch can be adjusted via thread and nut. That's to say that the amount of lever travel required to trip the switch [underneath the pedal] is adjustable.
Also, trail-braking into corners is a common practice and needn't interfere with accelerating through the apex. OTOH, chopping the throttle mid-corner may cause the bike to run wide. :o I've always liked Kenny Roberts Senior's roadracing advice, ``Go in slow, and come out.............alive.'' :P
Quote from: Gisser
Also, trail-braking into corners is a common practice
not for one months experience
With this last year of daily riding and my trip to the track, I feel I could answer your questions very well, but it will be a HUGE post, and I am to lazy for that....
So instead I will recomend that you go to your local Barnes & Nobel and buy "Modern Sportbike riding Teqhniques by Nick Ienatsch (sp??)"
The book covers everything from the very basics of bike control, all the way to the track, and absolutly everthing in between.
I bought it after I had been riding about as long as you, and it answered nearly all my questions.
Its writen in a very user friendly, and readable way, a book you will re-read many times, as there is more info than you can absorb in one read.
Also keep the balls of your feet on the pegs, and move them where you need them for shifting and braking, then put them back.
If you put your toes off to the outside of the pedel you WILL drag them through the corners, and your are more likely to snag your toes and break your ankels in an accident. You DO NOT want to be adjusting your foot position mid corner this can make the bike very unstable.
maybe if I am feeling energetic, I will post more later..
Ride safe and have fun!!!!!
Micah
Quote from: GisserQuoteI tried adjusting the rear brake lever a little, and even though that is easy the brake light will still come on at the same point due to the mechanics of the lever.
The brake light signal switch can be adjusted via thread and nut. That's to say that the amount of lever travel required to trip the switch [underneath the pedal] is adjustable.
Also, trail-braking into corners is a common practice and needn't interfere with accelerating through the apex. OTOH, chopping the throttle mid-corner may cause the bike to run wide. :o I've always liked Kenny Roberts Senior's roadracing advice, ``Go in slow, and come out.............alive.'' :P
I got only 2 things for you but they will save yer life ... STAY OFF THE REAR BRAKE, and do not attempt trail braking until you have gotten some serious mileage under yer belt or you have gone to race skool and some qualified has taught you how to do it ... because both of these things will lead to a highside ...
Just my $0.02
QuoteI got only 2 things for you but they will save yer life ... STAY OFF THE REAR BRAKE, and do not attempt trail braking until you have gotten some serious mileage under yer belt or you have gone to race skool and some qualified has taught you how to do it ... because both of these things will lead to a highside ...
Sure, if you're ham-fisted and grab a great big handful. A
nuanced squeeze of the brake lever has saved my bacon many a time when I've entered a corner a little too hot. Beats running off the road anyday. 8)
But, if this is an example of the paranoia MSF is teaching....then I dunno. :dunno:
Quote from: Matt Vwhen I rest my right foot on the footpeg and my foot is over the rear brake I end up with some rear brake applied, probably minimal but it triggers the brake light. To compensate I have been keeping the ball of my foot on the peg. This makes it hard to use the rear brake during the most important part of braking - right in the beginning when there is most weight on the rear tire. I tried adjusting the rear brake lever a little, and even though that is easy the brake light will still come on at the same point due to the mechanics of the lever. So it's hard to ride with my foot over the lever. What do y'all do with your right foot???
As far as adjusting the rear brake lever (which it sounds like you have already tried) and adjusting the rear brake light switch to match, see the post with photos in the
few questions from a noob thread.
For further opinions on what to do with your right foot, read the REST of that thread.
when 'rolling on the throttle' you should only be cracking the throttle open to load the rear suspension, not actually accelerating. Its called maintenance throttle. You may need more time to get a little more finesse with the throttle.
I just ordered a 2004 GS500. It will be delivered on Wednesday Needless to say, I'm taking off of work that day! :)
Do you find that the GS 500 has enough power for you? I'm a female and weigh about 140. Most of my friends who ride think that the 500 will have more than enough get-up-and-go for me, but I was wondering what you GS 500 owners think of the power in your bike.
I'm a guy, 5'6, 120# and the gs500 had enough power to really have fun and enough power to scoot along at a good clip in traffic. You wont be dissapointed.
Quote from: Matt V
First, where I live we have some hills and curvy roads to go with it. Going uphill is fine, but I find going down hill I can't follow the general guidelines. If I roll on the throttle even a little I find that I'm coming out of the curves too fast, especially when there are a series of curves. The best I can do to not brake in the curves is to keep completely off the throttle through the curve so that some engine braking keeps my speed constant. But this seems wrong, especially since I've got a lot of weight on the front. Some kind of braking in the turn has to occur to keep my speed in check since the linked curves give me no chance to really come upright and slow down. What's the best practice in this situation?
Try modulating your entry speed so that you go in slower, come out faster. This means that if you are going into a series of esses, you don't over accellerate coming out of one as you are setting up for the next one.
Get your braking done before you're in the turn, make sure you're in the right gear. Also, finesse the throttle so that you're not turning the bike into a hobby-horse by loading/unloading the front end. Smooooooth...roll the throttle on and off.
Quote from: TeecegirlI just ordered a 2004 GS500. It will be delivered on Wednesday Needless to say, I'm taking off of work that day! :)
Do you find that the GS 500 has enough power for you? I'm a female and weigh about 140. Most of my friends who ride think that the 500 will have more than enough get-up-and-go for me, but I was wondering what you GS 500 owners think of the power in your bike.
No problem at all. The GS isn't a straight-line bike, anyway. It really shines in the twisties and in urban commando use where you are squirting from one clump of traffic to the next.
Quote
when 'rolling on the throttle' you should only be cracking the throttle open to load the rear suspension, not actually accelerating. Its called maintenance throttle. You may need more time to get a little more finesse with the throttle.
This I understand, the specific situation for me is a moderately steep downhill of curves in which gravity induced acceleration occurs regardless of how little the throttle is opened.
Thanks everyone for the advice. I will continue to practice. BTW I just finished installing progressive springs and new fork seals last night which I hope to try out today. Suspension was just pathetic before.
Matt
Quote from: TeecegirlDo you find that the GS 500 has enough power for you? I'm a female and weigh about 140. Most of my friends who ride think that the 500 will have more than enough get-up-and-go for me, but I was wondering what you GS 500 owners think of the power in your bike.
I'm 145. You'll be happy with it. :)
well I gues no one likes my idea of foot next to the break. :dunno: I can live with that.
I have been riding this way for a year and for me anything else is uncomfortable, so if this is in anyway dangerous technique, then PLEASE listen to the others. I don't want to pass my bad habits on to you.
Cheers
-Denis S.
I just took the MSF basic. Augst 6-8. They taught to always use both front and rear brakes so that when you're in an emergency braking situation you'll automatically use both and get maximum braking. Of coursem the other basics were slow down before you get in a turn. If you do have to brake make sure you're upright by the time you stop and if you lock the rear wheel up don't release it... at least not if it isn't line up straight with the front of the bike or it'll throw you off. I don't remember discussion of slowing down in a curve except to stop... but I do remember roll on the throttle.
In my limited month of riding the GS500 I've found that it's pretty easy to lock up the rear wheel when stopping. I practiced some braking today but I'm not quite happy with the stopping distance I was getting. :/
Quote from: GisserQuoteI got only 2 things for you but they will save yer life ... STAY OFF THE REAR BRAKE, and do not attempt trail braking until you have gotten some serious mileage under yer belt or you have gone to race skool and some qualified has taught you how to do it ... because both of these things will lead to a highside ...
Sure, if you're ham-fisted and grab a great big handful. A nuanced squeeze of the brake lever has saved my bacon many a time when I've entered a corner a little too hot. Beats running off the road anyday. 8)
But, if this is an example of the paranoia MSF is teaching....then I dunno. :dunno:
Funny you posted this, because I have been riding for just a week now and had to deal with the same issues.
On the hills nearby I tend to go downhill in low gear - usually first. The engine ends up at 8000 to 10000 rpm but it serves to keep the bike from accelerating downhill. It doesn't feel completely comfortable yet but it's the best way I've found.
As far as my right foot, I keep my foot pointed up as much as possible. It felt weird at first but now I'm in the habit of doing it and it keeps me off the brake. I haven't yet tried the stuff people have mentioned here.
And finally, one of my friends said that on steep hills he meshes the clutch and gives the bike a bit of throttle to keep the bike stationary instead of using the brake. So when the light turns green or stop sign traffic clears, he just goes without any rollback.
Hope this helps - I would welcome more advice on this though!
Quote from: Matt VHi, I just finished my first month of riding after my msf course. I've taken it slow and things have gone pretty well. I have a few miscellaneous questions that I'm sure someone can answer.
First, where I live we have some hills and curvy roads to go with it. Going uphill is fine, but I find going down hill I can't follow the general guidelines. If I roll on the throttle even a little I find that I'm coming out of the curves too fast, especially when there are a series of curves. The best I can do to not brake in the curves is to keep completely off the throttle through the curve so that some engine braking keeps my speed constant. But this seems wrong, especially since I've got a lot of weight on the front. Some kind of braking in the turn has to occur to keep my speed in check since the linked curves give me no chance to really come upright and slow down. What's the best practice in this situation?
Have you tried using a lower gear for more engine braking?
Quote from: Matt V
Second, when I rest my right foot on the footpeg and my foot is over the rear brake I end up with some rear brake applied, probably minimal but it triggers the brake light. To compensate I have been keeping the ball of my foot on the peg. This makes it hard to use the rear brake during the most important part of braking - right in the beginning when there is most weight on the rear tire. I tried adjusting the rear brake lever a little, and even though that is easy the brake light will still come on at the same point due to the mechanics of the lever. So it's hard to ride with my foot over the lever. What do y'all do with your right foot???
I keep the balls of my feet on the pegs until I need to activate the levers.
Quote from: Matt V
Finally, hill starts. I have been using the rear brake to hold the bike while engaging the clutch into the friction zone then taking off. This definitely requires more practice on my part :). Is this the right approach for hill starts?
Thanks for any and all advice. The past month has been a blast.
Matt V
'94 GS500
That is exactly what I do for hill starts.
Quote from: sanjay
And finally, one of my friends said that on steep hills he meshes the clutch and gives the bike a bit of throttle to keep the bike stationary instead of using the brake. So when the light turns green or stop sign traffic clears, he just goes without any rollback.
Whichever way is fine as long as you are more comfortable with it. Using the brake is helpful if you need to wait long at the traffic light.
Quote from: sanjay
On the hills nearby I tend to go downhill in low gear - usually first. The engine ends up at 8000 to 10000 rpm but it serves to keep the bike from accelerating downhill. It doesn't feel completely comfortable yet but it's the best way I've found.
Try using the second or third gear but go easy on the throttle to get a more smoother ride downhiil. once you are more familar with the road and can ride faster thru the curves. Prolonged use of the first gear is not a good sign. :nono:
Quote from: sanjayAnd finally, one of my friends said that on steep hills he meshes the clutch and gives the bike a bit of throttle to keep the bike stationary instead of using the brake.
That's a lot of slipping. It'll shorten clutch life.
Quote from: dsmirnov83well I gues no one likes my idea of foot next to the break. :dunno: I can live with that.
Not so fast - I ride that way a lot too. But I tend to keep my foot on the outer half of the peg, pointed more or less straight forward.
On LONG rides you try just about
anything to find comfortable positions. Sometimes the smallest change will make a big difference. Have you ever ridden with your right toes
between the footpeg and the brake lever - pointed downward? It's not a safe position for traffic or twisties, but out on a barren stretch of highway it's just another one of those "comfort positions" that gets its turn.
Kerry wrote:
Quote
dsmirnov83 wrote:Quote
well I gues no one likes my idea of foot next to the break. dunno_white.gif I can live with that.
Not so fast - I ride that way a lot too. But I tend to keep my foot on the outer half of the peg, pointed more or less straight forward.
On LONG rides you try just about anything to find comfortable positions. Sometimes the smallest change will make a big difference. Have you ever ridden with your right toes between the footpeg and the brake lever - pointed downward? It's not a safe position for traffic or twisties, but out on a barren stretch of highway it's just another one of those "comfort positions" that gets its turn.
:mrgreen: Wohooo :mrgreen:
There is hope for me after all...
Between you say... I'll have to try it.
My comute is about 15 miles (regularly stretched to about 40 :lol: ) each way, so a little comfort goes a long way. Thanks
Cheers
-Denis S.
Just a suggestion about getting comfortable riding downhill. Try coasting. Put it in neutral, engine running and go for it. You will get comfortable with the brakes and what ratio of front and rear control to use. Acelleration will not be rapid but smooth. You will have less noise to distract you and time will slow down to help you find your comfortable lines. With the engine running you can always clutch and upshift 2x to third which should give you adequate engine braking or acceleration if you need it to get out of something unexpected that comes along. This is not just my idea, I think I read about it in one of Keith Codes' two excellent books, or one of the other learn to ride better books already mentioned by others on this thread.
I ordered Twist of the wrist II online last week, should have it any day now. That should help me with a lot of my technique questions that are bound to continue. Thanks again everyone!
Matt
QuoteTry using the second or third gear but go easy on the throttle to get a more smoother ride downhiil. once you are more familar with the road and can ride faster thru the curves. Prolonged use of the first gear is not a good sign.
That's only when I'm going down very steep hills, which are quite common around where I live. So steep that in 2nd or 3rd gear the bike accelerates unless you're actively braking.
Quotesanjay wrote:
And finally, one of my friends said that on steep hills he meshes the clutch and gives the bike a bit of throttle to keep the bike stationary instead of using the brake.
That's a lot of slipping. It'll shorten clutch life
Only on steep uphills :-) Otherwise he uses the rear break as I do.