GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

Howdy,

First, some background. The bike has a little over 10K miles. It was properly broken in and then ridden gingerly by it's owner. The last few K miles she has been riding it harder, keeping it up in the RPMs but not near redline, rolling on the gas harder coming out of corners, etc... Within the last few K miles, we have noticed a marked increase in oil consumption but not severe. Folks here said to just keep adding oil and ride it. Here's the bad part.

We spent the weekend in Arkansas romping around in the Ozarks. During this time, the bike went through nearly two quarts of oil!!  :? We kepted it topped off though. The fourth day of riding, the engine started dying when the clutch was pulled in at low RPM's, like at a stop or downshifting to 1st or 2nd. At normal crusing speeds it ran fine. At no time during this weekend or in the past have we been able to see any indication of an oil leak, no puddles under the bike, no grimy spots on the engine or frame and the like.

Sunday, on the way home and only 50 miles into a 500 mile ride, the engine just died while she was cruising down the road at about 70mph. The rear end did not lock up, there were no loud noises. When she stopped, she tried to restart it and got nothing. We all pulled over, tried to start the bike and again nothing. We could hear the starter spinning, but the motor itself was not being turned over. We tried to bump start it after this. I stuck it in 3rd, got up some speed and dumped the clutch, the rear tire skidded!! At this point, we called for help and got a trailer. When we loaded the bike on the trailer, I noticed oil dripping from a hose hanging down near the rightside footpeg. The hose has a molded rubber cap over it that will not come off. It appears as if the oil is weeping through the rubber. I think this hose goes back up to the airbox and is to drain any oil blowing back in from the crankcase.

Given the amount of oil being consumed without any visible leak, I can only surmise that the oil is being burnt. However, when she was riding, the only time there was any visible exhaust  would be when she got on the gas hard  to accelerate. Even then, it was only a momentary black puff. She did not go down the road smoking all the time and never was the exhaust a bluish color as is often associated with oil burning. The valves were just recently adjusted before the trip and at that time, the bike was running fine. It is now on it's way to the local shop for diagnosis.

I am hoping that someone here might be able to shed some light on what could be happening so that we can be well informed when talking with the shop.  Anyone esle with this kind of experience? Unfortunately, the bike is a few months out of the factory warranty period  :roll:  Figures...

Adios,

Quote from: TourmeisterI noticed oil dripping from a hose hanging down near the rightside footpeg. The hose has a molded rubber cap over it that will not come off. It appears as if the oil is weeping through the rubber. I think this hose goes back up to the airbox and is to drain any oil blowing back in from the crankcase.

You're right about the hose, airbox and crankcase blow-by.  But the oil isn't actually weeping through the rubber - there is a slit in that hose cap to allow for drainage.  I assume it's meant to function as a poor man's one-way outlet.

But blow-by oil isn't the same as oil being burned in the cylinders ... is it?  Burnt oil would exit via the exhaust pipe unless there were some weird internal gasket problem.  Oil flies all over underneath the valve cover, and it's natural for some of it to make its way out through the crankcase breather hose.  I wonder if the mechs forgot to replace the paper gasket or the little "Brillo pad" under the breather cover (items 8 and 7 respectively in THIS BikeBandit DIAGRAM)?

Howdy,

Since there are no puddles or mess on the bike, I am assuming no leak.

The items you mention make me wonder though. Just how much oil might get blown back into that hose if those items were missing? If the engine is running at higher RPM's is there more pressure trying to push oil out through the breather hose? If so, then I would expect more oil to be dripping out of the drain hose. Still, there was no oil on the back of the bike or the tire. Considering the location of the hose and the amount of oil being lost, I would expect to see some oil back there?!  :dunno:

I wonder if there might be a blockage in an internal oil feed passage? This might starve the engine causing over heating and a possible siezure. The bike did feel exceptionally hot to the touch. Even with my leather gloves on, the oil filler cap was very hot. Still, it doesn't explain where all the oil has been going?! The end of the exhaust pipe did not show any signs of wet oil. I have not seen the plugs to know if they have oil all over them.

I guess we will know more when we hear from the shop. I'll let you know what we find out. As luck would have it, she was just getting set to sell the bike to a new rider and get her an SV650S... :x  

Adios,

Where does that oil go...
10 years and 45K miles and I am still asking that question... I have some cheaper oil I am buying 74C at walmart.. and no one has been able to answer it... No smoke except for the occassional black snort...when revving up... which is exhaust soot getting blown off.... No smoke, no severe blow by, nothing... BTW you might have a starter clutch issue... or goats syndrome...
Cool.
Srinath.

Engine killing when you pull in the clutch can happen when the bike is starting to get low on fuel; or when the choke has been left on (or is sticking).

It doesn't sound like you've been abusing the bike at all; you should be able to whach the throttle open/closed/open/closed all day long without killing a GS.  Spirited riding versus conservative riding can burn more oil, but shouldn't do any damage.

You mention that the starter was turning, but was not turning the engine; that sounds very unusual, maybe caused by the starter clutch.  But if the starter gear is not engaging the clutch set, then this should not prevent a bump-start.

I'm not thinking of any one thing that would cause both symptoms.  I guess I'd put the bike up on a stand, remove the plugs, and try to turn the engine using the rear wheel.  Check or replace the plugs; check the spark quality; drain whatever is in the float bowls and put in fresh gas.

Also, you don't mention how much oil you added per X miles; some people here have some serious oil consumption, while others have almost none  :dunno:

Quote from: Tourmeister...the engine started dying when the clutch was pulled in at low RPM's, like at a stop or downshifting to 1st or 2nd. At normal crusing speeds it ran fine. At no time during this weekend or in the past have we been able to see any indication of an oil leak, no puddles under the bike, no grimy spots on the engine or frame and the like.

Sunday, on the way home and only 50 miles into a 500 mile ride, the engine just died while she was cruising down the road at about 70mph. The rear end did not lock up, there were no loud noises.

This sounds like a stock fuel selector not flowing enough fuel.

Quote from: TourmeisterWhen she stopped, she tried to restart it and got nothing. We all pulled over, tried to start the bike and again nothing. When we loaded the bike on the trailer, I noticed oil dripping from a hose hanging down near the rightside footpeg.

Did you check the oil level at this time?

Quote from: TourmeisterI noticed oil dripping from a hose hanging down near the rightside footpeg. The hose has a molded rubber cap over it that will not come off.

I neglected to include the obligatory photo of what that hose looks like on my bike, which uses very little oil.

Howdy,

The bike is at the shop. I will be going in this evening to talk with the mechanic. From what he has already been told, he thinks the engine is toast.  I have seen here that other GS riders have had engines sieze on them. Several replaced the engines. Where would I find a replacement engine if that turns out to be necessary?

Adios,

Depending on what is junk you might be able to salvage the engine, but if it was starved for oil then I would say take it to the junk yard.  Theres an engine being parted on ebay right now.

I'll bet your engine is fine... maybe starter clutch or goats syndrome... both of which might be just a small replacement issue. However goats syndrome could be bad... In my case I lost both starter clutch and had goats syndrome... all in 1 sweep, laid down the 120 or so bucks for the parts (gaskets, clutch), swiped the rotor and stator coil off the parts motor and got back on the road... 2-3 frequent oil changes and its good.
Cool.
Srinath.

i too get a slight oil leak from the pipe on right, but it is only slight (slight spots on right footpeg hanger area)..as for oil comsumption i have gone thru 1/2 litre in 1500 miles..and this is on a 98 gs with 38000 miles...but as you state i too dont get any other leaks or smoke from exhaust eve nat 115 mph+ :mrgreen: ...i know cos mate follows me on his tdm 900..

What is goats syndrome?  :dunno:

The alternator rotor shatters... spraying the insides of the motor with magnet pieces...
Bike feels out of balance and sorta like its shaking and jerking... but you can still ride it and it works fine...
Cool.
Srinath.

Any leads on where to find a new engine?

Adios,

So what was worng with the motor...
Cool.
Srinath.

The bike is still at the shop. All they did was try to spin the motor manually after removing the crankcase cover. It won't budge. As to why it cooked, no idea yet. The shop is looking for another motor. We'll probably do the swap ourselves to save on the labor charges. then I'll tear the old engine apart to see what we find. We'll part out the good stuff on Ebay or here.

Adios,

So was it oil starvation or what?  I think if thats all they did I'd go get it and tear it down myself.  I've seen simple things lock up engines, as well as repair shops doing stupid things.

As far as I know, it has to be oil starvation. However, what caused the starvation is unknown. We don't want to pay the shop to spend the time to find out when it is cheaper to just replace the engine. At $60 per hour, I'd rather get the old engine back and tear it down myself. In the meantime, we will just stick anonther motor in it and go from there. If we find out more, I will definitely let you know here.

Adios,

Any Ideas on where to get a motor?  New, Used, Rebuilt?

:cheers:

Which crank case cover did they take off... that little round one on the right... sounds like chicken and bull to me... seizing on a Gs usually happens only if it was low on oil, and before it seizes ... it melts the front fender etc form the heat in the exhaust. I am betting magnet pieces are on the left side making it hard to turn it over... AKA goats syndrome. Check your battery charge... if low... bingo goats syndrome. OK fine its sat for 5-6 days ... may not be conclusive, but mine when it died from goats syndrome... I ride it a good 80 miles sunday, and on monday mornng... battery is dead.
Cool.
Srinath.

When the engine died, there was no sound, clunking, banging, or anything. It just died as if the kill switch had been turned to the off position. If as you say it might be Goats syndrome, wouldn't there be noises from the magnet pieces banging around? Also, even if the chunks were in the way, couldn't the motor still be turned a little either way?

I have been using this shop for a long time, it is not a dealership. I have him work on numerous bikes and have no reason to believe he would be B.S.ing me. That just is not his style. He certainly does not need the business as he is swamped as it is because of his reputation for good work.

I will check the battery when we get the bike back in a few days.

Adios,

The goats syndrome thing as it happened to my bike...
About 300 miles or so before it went belly up... the bike was running sorta like out of balance or a loping wobbly feel mainly between ~4 and 6K rpm. The day before it didn't start I ran it 80 miles, and felt the same out of balance but no extra noises. The day it didn't start... OK the day after that... I opened it and saw the 1,000,000 pieces I just thought Oh that  jammed up the crank and didn't let it spin up... cos the tested fine and 2 weeks after .... I never took the battery out of the bike - simply cos You have to take the tank off to get the battery out on this bike.... cos its got a extension on the battery box and fits any battery you want length wise ... I believe my crank wasn't turning on the starter because of physical blockage... Now the magnet pieces can move after you ride and stop the bike, they can also move under trailering, and of course they can move when running and they will either get smashed further, or smash the rotor or stator further or smash somehting else, or move out of the way... making for more clunking... any or more than 1 of those can happen ... mine was on the quieter side... In your case... entirely worth checking out. A small speck between the idler and starter can prevent the starter from spinning, a nice hunk between rotor and stater can prevent it from turning, and needless to say a shattered rotor wont charge the battery well enough to let it turn a motor over.
Cool.
Srinath.

When did you change the oil last? When I first got my bike I rode a few thousand miles then it started doing exactly what you said. Would die when the clutch was pulled, very little power, wouldn't start when hot etc.....

I don't know why, but I changed my oil and it never did it again. My oil was trash, black and syrupy.

Howdy,

Got the bike back from the shop. The oil was changed just before we left for Arkansas for the weekend. During that weekend we added nearly two full quarts! Anyway, I pulled the left side cover off. Here are the pics:

http://twtex.com/linkfiles/GS500/

Everything looks to be in real good shape. There is a lot of grey goop in the bottom that is extremely fine metallic material. Nothing large and chunky. In any other gear system I have seen, this level of very fine particles is normal from general wear and tear. The magnets all look fine, no real obvious wear indicators. I pulled out the little gear between the starter and the big gear on the crankshaft. The starter spins fine. I got out my big ass wrench and tried to turn over the motor in the normal operation direction... locked solid. No amount of grunting would budge it.

The shop pulled the old plugs and when I got the bike, it had new unused plugs in it  :(  I really wanted to see the original plugs to see if there was a lot of oil on them. I tried turning over the motor with the plugs out, still nothing.

Any ideas?

Adios,

Hard to say, I'd start tearing the engine down.  I think it almost has to be something internal messed up.   :dunno:

Howdy,

Well... we finally got a used engine installed in the bike tonight. It started right up and runs great. The engine was not real pretty when we got it. It looked like it came straight from the junkyard. We cleaned it up and had a friend paint it. Now it looks brand new. We swapped the valve cover from the old engine to this one because the cover on this one were in real bad shape cosmetically. When we pulled the cover off the old dead engine we found that the timing chain was broken  :x  What was left of it was all wadded up in the front of the motor. We will probably tear down the top end to see if there is any damage to the valves or pistions. If not, we may just replace the chain and see if the motor will work. The strange thing is that we still have no idea why the motor was consuming mass quantities of oil? If the timing chain were loose, could this create a condition that would let oil into the combustion chamber via the valves? The chain itself was still nicely coated in oil. No idea why it broke, two months out of warranty  :x

Adios,