The Cycle World November issue has a GS500 vs. Ninja 500 comparison. How come I can't find any comments on the comparison in this forum?
Some people may not have received their issue yet or had a chance to write something up yet. I don't subscribe to Cycle World so I didn't know they had a new comparison.
Heres one that was up a week or so ago, its a July issue though.
http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12542
For those of you that haven't ridden the Ninja 500-its pretty darn fast for a 500cc.I owned a nice 1990 model-before they put the rer disc, and mine had the smaller wheels.And while I haven't ridden a GS500, I did own a 1980 GS450ST, and had loads of fun on it too.Both my GS450 and my EX500 easliy got 64-66 mpg.There was a coparison test of the two in Motorcyclist mag a few years ago, and while they agreed the Ninja had the more power, they voted the GS as a more fun ride.The new GS looks great, and I am very seriously considering getting myself one-but I am also considering the Ninja.I can't afford a bigger bike right now (two kids in college), and I may not be able to finagle myself into a GS or a Ninja either, but with either bike, I would have a large, bug-filled, toothy grin on my face.
Oh yeah, I went to a factory Buell test ride day at the local HD/Buell dealer and took out a Blast (another contender), and an XB9R Firebolt.I could have stayed there all day, but had chores to do.Both of these bilkes were much fun-I guess I just love to ride.
Jon Neet
Bonney Lake, Wa.
Cycle World doesn't add anything new to the mix. Same old story. Nice fairing; not enough motor. :roll: Suzook has the remedy for that shortcoming. Chop the top end of a B-12 Bandit mill right down the middle and install on the GStwin cases. But no, they'd rather rip-off their customers by selling them antiquated junk wrapped in an attractive exterior. Franky, I'm getting sick of reading about the EX500 spanking the GS500 in these magazine matchups year after year after year etc. Doesn't Suzuki have any corporate pride ? :x
One problem with redesigning the old GS500 motor might be the exspense of getting it EPA certified.That would raise the price of the bike even more.Its already more then the Ninja now.Suzuki could easily design a rompin stompin 500cc twin sportsbike with great brakes, suspension, and high horsepower, but the current GS fills s need-I've noticed the 2004 GS500Fs are selling very well at my local dealer-they can't keep them in stock.Also, if they did it, there would still be the Ninja to contend with at a much lower price.I'm 50 years old, and when I started riding the 500cc class of bikes was very popular, as they were in racing.Now theres almost no 500 cc bikes out there.It seems to me that 50cc, 125cc, 250cc, 500cc, 750cc, 1000cc are all natural sized engines/classes.Where the hell did 600cc come from? A 500 used to be a pretty big motorcycle among all th little 50s and 90s from Japan.
I still feel that for riding solo, a 500cc can be a good mount.
I haven't received my November Cycle World yet, but for a similar comparo in the August 2004 issue of Rider magazine browse through the scanned pages in my http://bbburma.net/Temp/GS500F_RiderMag_Writeup/ directory.
Hmm, in the comparison between EX500 / GS500, the Kawasaki wins on almost all points. It striked me that in this test they found that the Kawasaki handled better while previous tests always said the Suzuki handled better :?
But with the engine they got a point. It's outdated now and it runs so bad because they have to make the EPA happy with low emissions. Would be nice if they designed an engine that fits the current frame :) A new top-end would be even better, since we could all bolt that on our current bikes. But it probably won't work since the bottom end isn't strong enough to take more power.
I got my issue this weekend. The reveiw was what I expected, with the exception of the better handling comment; there, I feel slighted, but of course I would if someone talked badly about something I own and enjoy.
Something that I was tinking about this weekend was how I'm good at my job, and that's all I have to be, good at my job. I don't have to like it, but I do it well. Now when it comes to a hobby, I should enjoy it...I don't have to be good at it (although it helps). This is kinda like our bikes, our bikes don't have to be the greatest to be enjoyed.
Quote from: BirdmoveOne problem with redesigning the old GS500 motor might be the exspense of getting it EPA certified.That would raise the price of the bike even more.Its already more then the Ninja now.Suzuki could easily design a rompin stompin 500cc twin sportsbike with great brakes, suspension, and high horsepower, but the current GS fills s need-I've noticed the 2004 GS500Fs are selling very well at my local dealer-they can't keep them in stock.Also, if they did it, there would still be the Ninja to contend with at a much lower price.I'm 50 years old, and when I started riding the 500cc class of bikes was very popular, as they were in racing.Now theres almost no 500 cc bikes out there.It seems to me that 50cc, 125cc, 250cc, 500cc, 750cc, 1000cc are all natural sized engines/classes.Where the hell did 600cc come from? A 500 used to be a pretty big motorcycle among all th little 50s and 90s from Japan.
I still feel that for riding solo, a 500cc can be a good mount.
Japan is still making lots of bikes between 250 and 500cc, but they don't ship them here. I'd like to have a CB350 brought back here. (I know there's a CB400 or 450 still made.) Probably with present EPA regs they'd not run like they used to: just enough power to get on the highway, and just a little less fuel efficiency than a CB250. But the GS500 gives up 10-20mpg in the efficiency while giving you a whole lot more giddeup. Still I wonder if there isn't a market that can be created, especially in urban areas, for the inbetween bikes. --Mike D.
Quote from: GisserSuzook has the remedy for that shortcoming. Chop the top end of a B-12 Bandit mill right down the middle and install on the GStwin cases. But no, they'd rather rip-off their customers by selling them antiquated junk wrapped in an attractive exterior. Franky, I'm getting sick of reading about the EX500 spanking the GS500 in these magazine matchups year after year after year etc. Doesn't Suzuki have any corporate pride ? :x
I'm interested to hear more about your B12 Bandit idea.. Care to share? How does the cam drive work with this setup?
If you're wanting to spank some EX500's just go bracket racing. I regularly hand them their 4V heads when drag racing brackets. The EX is very fast but the Mighty GS has a lot of low end torque and you get a better start than everybody there. Ask Greg Gabis about lining up next to a Hyabusa (happened to me too).
QuoteI'm interested to hear more about your B12 Bandit idea.. Care to share? How does the cam drive work with this setup?
Whaddayya want? Blueprints? Okay, don't sever the B12 down the center. Offset, and leave the cam drive on the passenger side ala EX250. Less rocking couple induced vibration that way. Except, the visual aesthetics of a centrally located cam drive are preferable on an air-cooled mill, not to mention the cooling factor for the shrouded cylinder.
Actually, I don't mind antiquated technology, but, the GS500 competes head-to-head with the EX500 and the Suzooki gets no handicap consideration out in the real world where
bang for the buck is king. The GStwin started life as an offspring of the GS750 and, since that time, the inline four big brother left the twin behind as it evolved to a four-valver and then to the oil-cooled design then three generations of water-cooled descendents. I do think the defining characteristic of the GStwin are the cooling fins and the B12 represents the peak development of the type. As it stands, the GS500 is the most antiquated engine in the Suzooki line-up. More
primitive than even the
Savage and its four-valve 650 thumper. And, that's even a
cruiser. :x
What are you talking about, the GS has four valves just not on one cylinder, :bs:
The article's bloody short. To the point, yes, but short. Seemed to me like they were saying the bikes are relatively equal except the engines. Perhaps they are more used to riding 600cc and litre-bikes?
The GS500F is a much better overall value. Both bikes are reliable, economical, and powerful enough for short highway trips one-up. Neither is a real sport bike. However, the Suzuki is much better looking. I also think that the simplicity of air-cooling is a big bonus.
True, the GS500F is a bit slower than the Ninja, but I don't think that people buy either bike for its power.
The cycle world article ends with a cute story about the GS500. The implication is that the author also enjoyed his time on the Suzuki.
[/quote]
Whaddayya want? Blueprints? Okay, don't sever the B12 down the center. Offset, and leave the cam drive on the passenger side ala EX250. Less rocking couple induced vibration that way. Except, the visual aesthetics of a centrally located cam drive are preferable on an air-cooled mill, not to mention the cooling factor for the shrouded cylinder.
:x[/quote]
Well yeah I guess blueprints. I don't see how you would drive the cams off the side of GS lower end. The GS crank has the cam drive sprocket in the center. Are you planning on ditching the alternator and mounting a sprocket? You imply that it would be economic for Suzuki to "convert" the GS over to use a B12 head. It sounds like the implementation might be a bit more involved.
QuoteWell yeah I guess blueprints. I don't see how you would drive the cams off the side of GS lower end. The GS crank has the cam drive sprocket in the center. Are you planning on ditching the alternator and mounting a sprocket? You imply that it would be economic for Suzuki to "convert" the GS over to use a B12 head. It sounds like the implementation might be a bit more involved.
I suppose I should've realized that someone using the handle
V8Pinto would take a rough proposal of swapping engine parts more
literally than intended. :roll: The point I was making was that if the
company could base the original GS400 on GS750 R/D, then it should be
able to use B12 R/D to produce a GS600 twin reasonably economically
compared to a clean sheet design. At 4900.00, the GS500's price is
up-to-date while its performance is decidedly
not. No one should
be spending that much hard-earned money then deciding one week later
that the bike's performance isn't cutting the yellow mustard. That's not
a smart way to build brand loyalty, if that's the purpose of an entry-level
bike.
Here's how Suzuki can upgrade the GS500 for minimal expense. If someone who works for Suzuki happens to read this, you can use it if you send me a new bike. :thumb:
Frame-As is.
Wheels-From GSXR600
Suspension-From GSXR600
Engine-Take the engine from the GSXR1000 and lop off the two outside cylinders. Change the crankshaft to 180 degrees and balance it well. Change the cam timing to work with a twin and give a little more bottom end. Downsize the radiator.
New stuff-Fuel injection system, new dash with idiot lights, analog tach, digi speedo/odo/trip-meters.
The engine could be tuned conservatively to make about 60 hp, and a world of tire choices and suspension upgrades is opened to you.
Suzuki hasn't spent much on R+D for the GS500 since what, 1991? The R+D and tooling has to be paid for by now, so the cash since from the GS above parts/labor has all been profit. Time to re-invest a little of that in R+D and keep the price point the same. I think if one of the manufacturers stepped out on a limb with a nice 'beginner' or 'low-end' bike, they'd be shocked how many they would sell. Maybe that would convince them to import bikes like the Japan-only SV450 and GSX-R400.
In Dec 2002 Cycle World ran an article called "Cheap Thrills," wherein 10 bikes under $5000.00 were compared.
The GS500 was the winner.
It was the best handling, as well as most comfortable.
It was described as "in a word, SWEET"
Also called the "most sportbike like"
Since then, nothng has changed on the ninja, except that now it has that ugly gray paint job.
Go figure. :dunno:
I owned a GS for a couple of years. I loved it. Screw the critics...if you like the bike that should be enough. Not to mention the Ninja 500 just looks the same each and every year. Like lipstick on a pig. Just a new lipstick.
Bah... :guns: :nana: :guns:
I suppose I should've realized that someone using the handle
V8Pinto would take a rough proposal of swapping engine parts more
literally than intended. :roll: The point I was making was that if the
company could base the original GS400 on GS750 R/D, then it should be
able to use B12 R/D to produce a GS600 twin reasonably economically
compared to a clean sheet design. At 4900.00, the GS500's price is
up-to-date while its performance is decidedly not. No one should
be spending that much hard-earned money then deciding one week later
that the bike's performance isn't cutting the yellow mustard. That's not
a smart way to build brand loyalty, if that's the purpose of an entry-level
bike.[/quote]
Chuckle... yeah I was already busting out the torch and searching ebay for a B12 head to cut up...
I see your point now-