http://www.gstwin.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=member_bikes&id=avo
Page 25 WOF if this isn't opening...
They are adjustable and fit everyhitng ... they'd even fit an 89 if you removed the posts and tubes that are bolted to its top triple.
The clamp piece has a cut that has been made after the pic was taken and its all machined out of 6061 aluminum.
Price is $60 and shipping. Its adjustable for angle, the tubes will be powdercoated, it will take press in bar ends, and comes with stainless hardware ... 1 allen bolt ...
The one issue is... I can guarantee fit etc, but most of the shaping is done by hand since the ideal shape is a tear drop shape to let you rotate the thing into the best position ... and no one makes a tear drop shaped aluminum block... :o :o ... so its all hand done ... so the 2 pieces are a bit off ... and That cant exactly be helped... I'll get it as close as I can and what not ... but the limitation is that.
Cool.
Srinath.
Also these are made to fit on top of the legs like caps ... I had to make it to fit with the handle bar bosses on the stock triple ... if someone is fitting them under the triple ... I'll make the wall thicker and not care about making it fit in the space there... I can also drill through, or drill a smaller hole on the top making it stronger. These were made to fit the nut the 01+ has on top. They fit everyhting but special mods can be made to work better on each type. If you use these and like it, you can shave off the handlebar bosses ... and if you send it to me I'll shave it, make a thick walled one and fit it on ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Do you have a pic of them mounted on the bike? For some reason I am having an idiot moment and can't visualize it.
I'll put up pics of it soon... with it on my bike ... Its rotateable so should fit everything ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Damn it Srinath, you gotta stop making all these parts...I'll be broker than ever by the time I get them all on my bike...On my way home tonight from class I was envisioning some clipons and how nice it would be to have them...Hating those drag bars more and more each day!!!
Oh well... see these were material I had for a few months ... I knew I can make it ... just didn't have the 3 hours to make each set... BTW first one was 3 hours ... all the ones after I believe will be under 1 hour each ... Since I now have time ... I thought I'll knock a few out ... miracle I only cut myself in 2 places and got metal in my eye 3 times... whoooo hoooo good times...
Cool.
Srinath.
Have you tried stress or damage testing? I'm sure their solid but you can never be to careful. They are made up of 3 pieces right? Center then the tubing for the handles? Also how was it put together. I'm not trying to diss your work I'm just a safety nut.
Ohhh... I like those. I have to see a picture of them installed.
Also, how about safety/strength? I have paypal waiting! ;-)
One more thing... do you need to bring the forks up a bit to fit these like some of the other aftermarket units?
Chris
ill take them also when they are done and ready!
Thanks
Quote from: TOMIMOTOHave you tried stress or damage testing? I'm sure their solid but you can never be to careful. They are made up of 3 pieces right? Center then the tubing for the handles? Also how was it put together. I'm not trying to diss your work I'm just a safety nut.
I am not going to break them and see how strong they are ... why ... companies send out cast aluminum in a thinner section and its OK ... This is 6061 ... its strong as hell, and I have a very thick section and if you want I can make it even thicker ... you just have to shave off the stock handle bar mounting bosses on the triple... Or I'll send you 89 triples to try it out ... when you are done send it back to me ... those dont have the handlebar mounting pieces on them... On these I am not even drilling all the way through in many cases ... The small 9/16 hole is all I am drilling through ... which you have to to have the pinch feature ... There is a 1/4 inch cap part and a 1 inch body and its all 6061 machined stuff and nothing on the bike is that strong to begin with... they send GSXR's out with shaZam! ... I have SV650 ones in mt garage right now, and I can bash it to bits with these ... any thicker and it wont fit a stock triple ...slice off the bar mount part and it will ... which is where the 89 triple comes in... its got no bar mounts ...
You do have to push in the fork legs 1 inch into the triple for them to fit ... You might be able to creatively carve your triple so the things that go round the forks is not there and then they'd fit where those used to fit.
More pics comming...
Cool.
Srinath.
Srinath-
Got any '89 triples that I could buy off you once I buy these, so I can keep my stock triple stock and not hack it up? Trying to do everything on this bike so it's all reversible...For that matter, I'll take a regular triple with the bar clamp pads and shave that off.
Off to save up more money...
OK pics are here ...
http://www.gstwin.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=member_bikes&id=avw
http://www.gstwin.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=member_bikes&id=avx
http://www.gstwin.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=member_bikes&id=avy
http://www.gstwin.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=member_bikes&id=avz
The center pieces are made of 6061 solid 1 block... the handles are steel and have a nut welded inside ... that part has been tested ...
Many more potions are possible ... the piece can be drilled through so it can be fitted under the triples ... but beware ... on a 90-02 the headlight bracket might get in the way...
I can also make it thicker wall ... its currently ~3/8th inch ... can be over 1/2 inch... even thicker if needed ... but then you have to significantly push the fork legs into the triples ... lowering the bike a lot ... or shave off the handlebar mounts on the triple ...
I start off with a 2 and 3/4 inch square block and shave it and cut it and mill it ... I'll just shave it less ... The 6061 is strong ... very high shear strength and very good tensile and ... overall its everyones choice for making anything ... 7075 is stronger but it wont take heat, 2011 is harder but machines up like crap, 2024 is good for all but its not as strong as 6061 ... 6061 is the most expensive and the most highly sought after alloy there is ... its also the most manufactured due to these characterstics ... I have a setof SV clip on's and a set of F2 honda ones as well they are thin and they are cast shaZam! ... this is billet, machined... strong as hell...
Cool.
Srinath.
Which parts are powder coated? Also, on the pictures the tubes stick out very far past the grips. Are the grips just pushed up further than they should be or is that how it will look?
Thanks!
Chris
I have a spare 89 one ... but the one on my bike is boogered... and I have a helicoil fix ... which seems to be holding... however I wasn't going to sell it... it was just going to be temporary while you get used to the idea of the triple being without the mounts...
In your case well.... what I have to say is... slice up the triple ... cos the 90-04 triples are abundant ... most racers toss them, and literally they dont go for much ... 89's are delicate crap and they get boogered if you look at them funny (however the part that gets boogered you dont use if you have these clip on's they have a set of bolts that run horizontally into the triple at the fork leg top... lousy crap always breaks there if you crash...) ... You can keep the triple as is and use the clipon's ...that way it is reversible...
BTW the pics ... I wanted to mention ...that bike has no steering stop ... which makes the bars come much closer to the tank than they will in reality.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: 1998_GS500Which parts are powder coated? Also, on the pictures the tubes stick out very far past the grips. Are the grips just pushed up further than they should be or is that how it will look?
Thanks!
Chris
The tubes will be powdercoated ... and I always fit it on and move things around and see where they dont hit and give people a good 1/2 inch of room etc to fit fatter grips or other modded things like those bicycle mirrors - zefal dooback mirrors ... the final cut and sizes on the tubes are being determined as we speak... its a prototype in many ways ... it does have a good 3+ inches spare ... which will be cut off and ends drilled for bar ends etc when they are sent to people.
Cool.
Srinath.
What the heck, I am down for one.
Chris
You have any special mods to make ... like thicker ...it wont fit in the stock triple if its any thicker... but I can make it from some 2 and 1/2 inch round stock ... so you'll have a 1 inch wall ... :x or make it so it will fit under the triple ... or other mods ... These are 3/8th wall BTW and strong as a tank...
Cool.
Srinath.
Think I'd like to order one, as I need to replace my bars and these look great. Is installation very difficult?
OK Srinath, its been a while since we've been down this road, but you are pushing things again. Someone asks about safety, and you say that you aren't going to test them for strength, despite your previous track record. What gives man? Were all those debates we had worthless? You were totally confident in you other bars since they were from thicker stock than others, but they still broke.
Now, your aluminum is thicker too, but no worries? I realize that the fabrication methods are different, but why go down the same road again? After the last time we debated the morality of continuing to make bars after the breakages you said that mentioning the prior failures would be part of your description, but I fail to see that here. Whats the deal?
Welds are tested ... the other piece is a block of aluminum ... No way to testit and it was cut from a solid 6061 block ... no need to test it... these are not going to have manufacturing defects ... now aplitz you have to see one of these to know why there is no need to test it ... the rod with threads in it...yes I am testing it...
Cool.
Srinath.
You are missing the point. Looking at the simplicity of your other bars I would not have said that testing was needed, but apparently there was. Now, you say there isn't any need, but I challenge you to find any company that introduces any product to the market as an untested prototype. Obviously nothing was learned during the last go round.
Simplicity ... hell no ... The handlebars I made 2 bend and 2 weld were anyhting but simple ... once again aplitz you are talking about things you have not seen or even tried to imagine ...
BTW I have said its a block of 6061 aluminum and at the thinnest point its 3/8'th of an inch (OK fine measured it... its 37 hundredths ... so .37 inches ) ... like I said no way to test it...
For those reading this and not knowing what the entire story was...
I made handlebars, 1 broke when the user hit a pickup truck head on ... I recalled the bars ... all of the 36 or so I had made and sold to that point ...
A month or so later ... with some bars still not back to me yet ... 2 of them broke when they were riding ... Then they posted saying take the recall seriously .... then I got the bars and swapped them for the rod insert ...
We had a long discussion with aplitz saying I should stop making bars or anything altogether ...and the rod inside is just a bandaid ... and eventually he said they should be "Plug welded" to the rod ... and I said they are ...
Then a couple months later with my bars on the bike Mercdude slides on a wet inspection plate and crashes into a telephone pole ... and the bars dont break... I also test a good dozen before I send any out... so I know what they can take...
That brings us to our current situation ... clip on's need to be tested ...
I have a nut inside a tube welded up... and tested ... very well ... this is the third iteration of these bars ... so the nut in the tube is tested well at this point ... the other piece is a block of 6061 which I machined out to go on the fork tube and take the bars with 1 bolt...
Its a copy of the tommaselli's I have had on my 90 which I crashed and I know exactly where it broke ... I'll see if I can get a pic of the thing ... and that part in this is much beefier as is the whole piece ... I'llput up pics of a SV clip on and a Honda F3 clip on an well as a stock 89 GS clip on ... None of those are any thicker than 1/4 wall and they are all cast shaZam! ... These are thicker by atleast 50% and better ... much better material ... The welded part was tested ... and the other part is a block of aluminum ...
BTW the bars that were the problem was one lot of 12 ... where they were ground out very smooth ... like they weren't even welded I broke them all ... all 36 of it and just about 9 broke wihtout making me think the stock one will have bent into a pretzel for this force ...When they were made There was some lapse in communication and one guy welded it and another guy ground off everyhting to look pretty ... making for no welds... :x ... and he did it when I wasn't there ... now I am there with my stuff and when I leave I take it all with me ... anyway ... The design is a tommaselli knock off and the material I used is better and beefier by a lot ...which is what I have to say for this ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Those look great in the pics. They look like a good finish. Mad props to Srinath for the clip-ons!!!! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Srinath;
What you do for the GS community is greatly appreciated. While questioning your tactics or methods is good, imo, it is well understood that these bars will hold up.
Thanks guys... far from taking it as blind faith... The point in other words ...
Before they will fail in regular use they will spin on the fork tubes... If that happens You either cinch it down tighter or stuff like a inner tube or a foam pad in there and cinch it down... I have also heard of 2 sided emblem tape or tin foil from people that work well... In case of crash ... they will still most likely spin but mine were lifted up (if the bike was upright it would have been up) when the bike slid ... and that broke the bolt ear part ... These are not the ear type ... they are 1 block... This idea has been in my head for 5 years ... The tommasellis are good except for that 1 aspect and they are thin and made from cast aluminum...
BTW on a side note jacob having an 89 you have to think along these lines ... and in 2000 mine got boogered :x ... the helicoil fix is holding but I haven't crashed or seriously stressed the left side so far ...
Cool.
Srinath.
http://www.bevelheaven.com/stuff-for-sale-clipons.htm
OK these are like the ones I has... the part where the bar goes in pretty much got sheared off ... they seem to have re designed them to make it beefier ... mine (bought in 97 and broke in 99) were't as thick on the part that bolts through ... and they are still doing cast aluminum I see ... MIne are far thicker than these everywhere and is 6061 to boot.
Cool.
Srinath.
Judging by your replies I would say that I hit a nerve, and yet again you miss the point. Your old bars were simple, with minimal bends and welds. Just by looking at them, one would conclude that they would be fine. However, some broke so apparently testing was necessecary.
In this case, your product also seems simple, and is essentially a copy of someone else's work. However, to be arrogant enough to conclude that you don't need to test shows an irresposibility that bothers me. So what if you think they will be OK? Without proof that is as goos as the threads in the Tard Farm. Just opinion.
Now, I may be misunderstanding you here, since I find your posts difficult to follow. So please let me know if I am misinformed. I too appreciate your ingenuity and dedication to the GS community, but that does not give you a free pass on poor engineering. If you were a retired engineer, or racer, or welder I would feel better, but from our prior discussions, I am not convinced of your ability. Please, for the sake of the community, take every precaution to insure the safety of your buyers.
Quote from: aplitzJudging by your replies I would say that I hit a nerve, and yet again you miss the point. Your old bars were simple, with minimal bends and welds. Just by looking at them, one would conclude that they would be fine. However, some broke so apparently testing was necessecary.
In this case, your product also seems simple, and is essentially a copy of someone else's work. However, to be arrogant enough to conclude that you don't need to test shows an irresposibility that bothers me. So what if you think they will be OK? Without proof that is as goos as the threads in the Tard Farm. Just opinion.
Now, I may be misunderstanding you here, since I find your posts difficult to follow. So please let me know if I am misinformed. I too appreciate your ingenuity and dedication to the GS community, but that does not give you a free pass on poor engineering. If you were a retired engineer, or racer, or welder I would feel better, but from our prior discussions, I am not convinced of your ability. Please, for the sake of the community, take every precaution to insure the safety of your buyers.
no offense.. and it might be saturday night talking.. but let me sum it up.
If you don't trust srinath, THEN DON'T BUY THE BARS.
I have SEEN what he does. I've SEEN his work. He was willing to recall.. what? 30+ bars??? Good grief what do you want????? obviously he is willing to back up what he makes and does. These bars are obviously sound.
I went to his house.. I talked to him... You can trust him, and his work.... aplitz wow what a good samariton you've made your point now move on man....
Buy them or don't. I was there, and I can vouch that he is obviously willing to back up his work/word. Sorry for being so harsh but we get the point.
ugh a mod can edit this if they/he/she wants but good grief
-se7
Se7-
You are falling into that GST attitude of "he's a good guy so his products must be good." So by your rationale; since he is willing to back up a product when it fails, I should be fine using it even if it fails because it is untested. But its OK since after I crash he'll stand behind the product. The other bars looked OBVIOUSLY sound too, but that fell through in the real world didn't it? He was willing to recall 30+ bars? Yeah, I think it was required that he did, willing or not. What do I want? I want him to prove the roadworthiness of these bars, and not send out a prototype to a group of people that I consider bretheren.
Quote from: aplitzSe7-
You are falling into that GST attitude of "he's a good guy so his products must be good." So by your rationale; since he is willing to back up a product when it fails, I should be fine using it even if it fails because it is untested. But its OK since after I crash he'll stand behind the product. The other bars looked OBVIOUSLY sound too, but that fell through in the real world didn't it? He was willing to recall 30+ bars? Yeah, I think it was required that he did, willing or not. What do I want, I want him to prove the roadworthyness of these bars, and not send out a prototype to a group of people that is consider bretheren.
srinath... tru true but honestlt its the saturday night jouice talking.. I saw your stuff; I trust you maek a good prodcut, looks, tried and true or buying from and unknown seller??? srinet-h=== i saw, ad it's good stuff....... other peoiple== not troed and ture
Srinath,
I'm new to this board so I don't know anything about this prior situation that's being mentioned. Do you have a background in machining or manufacturing? You seem to have quite a bit of faith in these bars, and judging from all the posts of yours I've read it seems like you machine a lot, so I would trust you have a sound bed of experience. Also, you've been saying that you're unable to test portions of these bars, is this due to a lack of specialized equipment? My roommate's brother is a mechanical engineering grad student here and might have access to an Instron machine or other quantitative testing devices (as might others on this forum). I'm more or less neutral in this since I'm a newbie and my bike is costing me enough as it is without any new pieces :x. From what I've seen you're a nice guy and you know your stuff, but credentials and quantitative (or well regimented qualitative) testing always helps.
OK Fine...
I have a Bachelors in Technology (equivalent of a BS) in civil engineering from IIT madras (now Chennai) ... Class of 91. Matters little ... I have done software for a living for 13 years ...
Anyway ... I took the tommasellis and improved the design like I said ... and made it with batter materials ... I'll send it out to anyone that knows what 6061 is and what its strength and capacities are ... and if they tell me anyhitng is to be changed I'll change it ...
However Aplitz you are not getting one point ...
Before they break under normal use they will rotate on the fork leg ... then you cinch it down or stuff emblem tape inside it and cinch it...
If you crash the thing might break ... usually it will rotate but if the bike slides on the bars for a bit it will break... Now the tommaselli's are also the same way ... and the bolt ears will break in it, and on mine it is going to be the same case... but will need greater force/impact. Now no one stands behind their product if you crash ... surprise surprise ...
Essentially the failure is controlled by the design ... The other bars will break under normal use ... there was no design feature making it immune to certain types of failure ... These have the limitation ... only 1 way to get them to fail ... crash and have the bar lifted up while sliding ...
Testing it with any means is like testing the strength of billet 6061 ... Honestly if you saw it you'll know... Fork braces also haven't been tested ...why ... its a slab of aluminum ... I have had a machinist do much of the work... no question he says its going to be gorilla strong ... He has seen the tommaselli's and he said there is one more flaw in it which also I have eliminated ... the part of the bar that goes into the clamp is too gradual of a taper ...making it easier to spread the clamp part in that area whihc is where mine failed... though its not why I think. Mine is a steeper taper and there is no way to get it to spread the clamp part...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: PneumaticPantherSrinath,
I'm new to this board so I don't know anything about this prior situation that's being mentioned. Do you have a background in machining or manufacturing? You seem to have quite a bit of faith in these bars, and judging from all the posts of yours I've read it seems like you machine a lot, so I would trust you have a sound bed of experience. Also, you've been saying that you're unable to test portions of these bars, is this due to a lack of specialized equipment? My roommate's brother is a mechanical engineering grad student here and might have access to an Instron machine or other quantitative testing devices (as might others on this forum). I'm more or less neutral in this since I'm a newbie and my bike is costing me enough as it is without any new pieces :x. From what I've seen you're a nice guy and you know your stuff, but credentials and quantitative (or well regimented qualitative) testing always helps.
I believe I can put it in a vise and pretty much break the clamp part ... however what is the goal ... They will not see that sorta loading in regular use ... I put the bars in a vice and used a 3 foot pole and tried to break them... if they broke they were not good... and a bunch broke ... that was relevant cos they will see that type of load in that same direction under regular use ... Under normal use... in the worst case situation these will spin on the fork legs ... OK they will hit the dash or the other parts of the triple ... but they still have a good 20 degrees they will spin before hitting anything ...by which point you'd have noticed ... They have a chance to break only in the even of a sliding crash ... pull up on the bar and they may break... though mine I believe will slide out of the fork leg over the top. Still could break...
Cool.
Srinath.
OK fine... after a good long talk with my machinist ... his suggestion ... change the bolts that I am using to pinch ... special order ... lots of 100 ... from the same place I bought 100 of those famous 12 inch ones for case savers ... I want stainless steel only ... lets see how much the damn tihngs cost ... :x ... The allen heads I was using are fine but they let most of the load on a 5/8th diameter area ... he thought spreading it will make it even stronger ... he also said .... these are unbreakable as is ... They will come off if you crash... we tried it a dozen times ... with a 10 foot pole on the handle bar ... they come off ... to the extent they dont fit the bike now ... they are far too loose ... :x ... and they have numerous impact marks from us whacking it up or down ... They are a cap ... and like any incident involving a cap ... it slips off ... like all rednecks know ... you fall off a horse and you'll have to look for your hat ... :lol: :lol: :lol: ... hell I might make them looser so you have to use sticky tape to put it on ... so it will definetely come off in a crash...
Cool.
Srinath.
Srinath-
I fully understand that there is every reason that they should work. But 'should' is not good enough. NASA thought that the parachute on that probe 'should' open, but apparently every contingency was not tested. You can't just throw it out there and think your engineering is better, especially since problems have ocurred in the past. Prototypes are not OK for the general public, and not OK for the safety of a group of people I hope stays safe while participating in an already contolled-risk situation.
I did a survey on two boards that I am a member of, including my local club, which is made up mostly of AFM racers and track junkies. The general conclusion was that no one had seen a bar or clip on brake in a non-crash situation, (thus putting a nail in the coffin of your SM-type bars)unless the bike had been down before, thus compromising its structural integrity. They also commented that welded aluminum clipons are a poor choice, as they brake more commonly. So, your design is sound, you just need to prove their roadworthiness and not just send prototypes out to customers.
OK You seem to have 2 contradicting posts ... anyway These clip on's ... impossible to get it to break on the bike cos it wants to spin around or pop right off ... But I am using a 10 foot pole to try and lift or push it ... BTW I dropped the bike 3 times today attempting to load the handle bar ...
The SM type ones are now with a rod inserted and plug welded at all welds ... they aren't breaking on the bike either crash or no crash ... BTW Mercdude's telephone pole incident ... the bars came out un scathed ... so much so that he sold them to someone else ... The 2 bend and 2 weld bars are good after I welded the rod inside ... but yea its harder to control the failure in it ... These are limited by design to 1 type of failure ... spin and pop off ... BTW anyone want some battle tested clip on's that sorta fit a GS... No welding aluminum especially on a handlebar ... it will work harden with use and turn brittle ... 1 piece billet 6061 ... good stuff ... no compromises on these ... for case savers I bought steel that was $1.25 a lb, the bars DOM tubing $3.75 a lb ... and bloody hell 11 inches = 1 lb... I could have bought 2011 aluminum ... for under $1 a lb, the 6061 was around $3 a lb... each clip on uses over 2lbs ... most of which ends up on my machinist's floor :x ... No wonder the aftermarket uses cast shaZam! ... anyway the failuse was in execution in the second batch of handlebars ... total of 12 and I broke 9 of it easily ... all the rest was fine ... Better design on those, the same good material, and better execution of the process ...
Cool.
Srinath.
What is my contridiction? If you are refering to the comment about welded bars I included that for info only, I understand that yours are clip-on, two piece. If you mean the comment about no breaks in a non-crash situation. I mean that no one reported a bar or clip-on that broke in a non-crash situation, unless the bike had been down before.
The prior drop or crash probably fatigued the metal in a way as to cause failure in a non-crash situation (one coming down hard from a wheelie, the other in the bed of a truck during transportation tied down by the bars). I really cannot believe that you really know what you are doing, I work with metal on a daily basis and would not consider myself experienced enough to take on such a project. I can only hope that no unfortunate incidents ocurr this time around.
I made some bars today, some Suburban machinery knock offs. 4 welds, no bends. Throw me waaay forward. More fetal than any stock bike. Might be vool for short runs but might wear and tear on the back and wrists after a few hours.
I made them out of whatever iron pipe they had at Home Deopt that was close to 7/8". Ended up having to lay a few beads on the outside so everything wouldn't slip around. As far as selling them and the quality of the welds, who knows??? :cheers:
I set them on a log and jumped up and down on the bars and they didn't bend. :dunno: Very scientific, I know.... If someone wants to host a pic just tell me where to send it. :cheers:
clip-ons look good srinath...i don't think you'll have any problems with those
i made my own a while back and if these are not moving/breaking/whatever bad can happen, srinaths will not either
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/grubac/gs5/DSC00734.jpg)
GRU, are those aluminium? Whatever they is, :thumb:
Quote from: aplitzWhat is my contridiction? If you are refering to the comment about welded bars I included that for info only, I understand that yours are clip-on, two piece. If you mean the comment about no breaks in a non-crash situation. I mean that no one reported a bar or clip-on that broke in a non-crash situation, unless the bike had been down before.
The prior drop or crash probably fatigued the metal in a way as to cause failure in a non-crash situation (one coming down hard from a wheelie, the other in the bed of a truck during transportation tied down by the bars). I really cannot believe that you really know what you are doing, I work with metal on a daily basis and would not consider myself experienced enough to take on such a project. I can only hope that no unfortunate incidents ocurr this time around.
In the top post you said testing is needed, nasa said the chute should open .... prototypes not OK for general public ... blah blah ...
next post you said AFM and other racers said they have never seen clip on's break in a non crash .... sounds to me like you'll take someone else's word and believe it wont break... Anyway I have tested them and have the impact marks to prove it ... what I proved though was what I knew all along... these things will escape and not get stuck and get killed ... My tommaselli's ... same thing except I had them in all the way and they had no escape route ...
DOM - You need to use Tubing for bars ...pipe is close but irregularities in the OD/ID are rampant and worse is they are sold by ID and they are shitty quality ... and to break it ... vise on work bench and a 10 foot pole on the pipe ... snap it like a twig... I have those 4 weld bars too and I sell that to the SV dudes .... a horde of them showed up one day and bought 1/2 a dozen ... works on SV's obviously ... GS.... you having one sent over ... see what that feels like ... :lol: :lol: :lol: ... Look out for a big ass fedex box ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Sell the clip-ons with a warning that breakage is posiable under extreme use, for off road use only, and ride at your own risk. That should scare off anyone that is too stupid to look at the bars and do a little surfing on the web to see how strong the materials are. He has a machinest cuting these things and I am sure this guy is no rookie so if he thought he was mass producing some kind of death trap he would turn the work down or improve it. Sell the clip-ons with a 30 day money back garante so even the most discriminating buyer will be happy. If you dont like the bars dont hate, pm him and tell him your concerns dont hate on him in a public fourm and ruin his buisness let the buyer descide it these are right for him. If you need someone to test your clip-ons send me a set I will put them on my gs and abuse the hell out of them. I will send them back to you so you can inspect them and tell everyone on the fourm what I think. If they dont kill me I will be the first person in line to buy a set.
Oddly I dont want to do it with a disclaimer... and worse... these wont be that good on a race bike, cos everyhitng is so thick and beefy it weighs a ton ... anyway ... after repeated 10 foot pole yanks ... with it on the bike ... the only part I thought needed re work was the bolt head ... which was begining to beat up the countersunk and milled hole it was sitting in ... to which my macninist said ... use bolts that have the V shaped head ... I have seen those ... the exhaust cans I had came with those ... I try to buy some tommorow ... and that evidently should take care of the issue ... as would a couple of steel washers under the bolt head ... but he seemed to say they will be better ... lets see... regular use they are never going to see any stress... and they will spin and pop off if they get stressed ...
Cool.
Srinath.
I don't have the heart to snap them in the vice :( ...I worked all day on em...what kind of tube do you suggest? Whatever they have at the metal yard in 7/8"? I might be able to find chro-mo but I'll have to get a some different wire for my MIG. Well, at least I have the dimensions down now.
I made sure the beads were hot, damn hot...and the pipe had over 1/8" walls and I tempered it in oil. It just seems like a 10 foot breaker bar would destroy any bars that you put it on. Like, isn't that a little excessive? And what would I expect them to do with good metal, bend? So you are saying that the iron won't make a good weld with steel mig wire and the beads will snap right off and look all crusty like when I tried to weld some cast iron back together?
Save my bars from a horrible fate! :o
The 10 foot pole will tear up anyhitng ... true ... however the ones I made didn't blink with a 3 foot pole ... 10 foot and you have many types of failures ... its rod inserted and plug welded to the wall ... so first the wall begins to tear, usually right next to the weld ... and as the gap begins to show the rod is prettymuch holding it in place ... and then the rod begins to tear the wall off ... so you have obe crack showing and it stays almost the same gap as the parts that were welded to the rod begin to cave in and begin to get buckled under and usually they tear ... and I have bars that literally were bent into a tight W shape and they still were together ...
Yea the damn things take forever to make ... and they want to roll away on the table ... I have a jig made they get hammered in and welded up and that makes sure they are all identical ... still takes the better part of 1/2 hour each ...
Cool.
Srinath.
OK and on the steel quality ... I buy DOM tubing (drawn over mandrel) and its 7/8 OD and is sold by OD, and 1/8th wall and its extremely consistent for both ... now the steel is also better quality I think ... since its not rusted in the 8 months its been lying about, right next to the cheap stuff which is begining to rot and disintegrate ... higher purity on the material makes it less prone to rust ... the pipe you got is also steel, so welding it with the steel wire is good ... but the basic material is not that great ... its OK for areas where you dont care about exact dimension ... like the case savers I made ... and if you powder coat it... it is not going to rust and fall apart ... but for handle bars you want better quality...
Chrome-moly ... Over kill but you can get thinner wall and no clue how to weld it...
Cool.
Srinath.
OK, thats not a contridiction. But anyway, you tested the parts, found that some kinks needed to be worked out, are going to change it, presto not really a prototype anymore. Whats the big resistance to testing the parts especially after your other bars broke while other people were riding?
There is a difference between hating and keeping people honest, especially when the stakes are so high. Also, Srinath has said that this is not a business, and rather a service to the community. I am not attacking his cash flow, but rather making sure his products have some semblance of proven performance.
I actually didn't find any kinks ... try yanking the bars with a 10 foot pole a few dozen times ... The solution is to be tried out too ... I might just drop a washer under the bolt head which I would have anyway ... we had the bolt head make a few indentations on the aluminium after the first 20 or so times... the bolt head is right about 7/16 ths and I can fit a washer that is 5/8th OD that will do the load distribution ... The conical bolt idea sounds expensive ... and yea we are now going from something made to survive 20 crashes to maybe 30 crashes... yipee ... BTW the bars themselves might not make it through the first ... The test is only for the cap fitting on the forks ... I had a stainless rod inside the bar after the first couple of tries and it still had a banana bend in it ... But bend is OK in a crash ... break or bend under non crash is bad.
Cool.
Srinath.
The conical bolts aren't that expensive. They're called "flat head" and aren't any more expensive than any other stainless hardware(I assume that you will be using stainless). I suggest a flat head allen screw, as opposed to a flat head phillips, but I don't think that they will provide any more strength than any other type of bolt(i.e. button head, pan head, etc.) because the weakest point will be at where the head meets the thread. My $0.02. :cheers:
Quote from: DomGRU, are those aluminium? Whatever they is, :thumb:
steel
SA-WEET!!!
GRU, So did you mill the large rings or did you just find some thickwalled tubing that had a similar inside diameter to the fork? 37mm I think?
the fork is 37mm.....big O is a steel with a 39mm hole in the middle....i made a groove in each and welded the little pieces that clamp the O around the fork
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/grubac/DSC00707.jpg
Quote from: DomThe conical bolts aren't that expensive. They're called "flat head" and aren't any more expensive than any other stainless hardware(I assume that you will be using stainless). I suggest a flat head allen screw, as opposed to a flat head phillips, but I don't think that they will provide any more strength than any other type of bolt(i.e. button head, pan head, etc.) because the weakest point will be at where the head meets the thread. My $0.02. :cheers:
OK they are 2.25 each ...buy a 100 and they are 180 ... I dont need more than 14-16 ... I can see how these are better ... a 10 mm bolt (3/8th) has a head dia of 3/4 inch and its a huge fricking V shape ... and yes takes a 6mm allen wrench ... I aint buying no phillips ...
Cool.
Srinath.
GRU, Looks like you used a lathe to make the beveled edges, either that or you have a damn steady hand with the file... :lol:
It looks like the little ring has a hole in the left side of it. My guess would be that that there is a tapped receiving hole in the welded joint and that the handlebars were through-bolted?
geez, I need a lathe...
yeah i used the little bolt to hold the handlebar in place, untill the left handlebar fell out on the freeway :oops: ...so i welded the handlebars to the clip-ons
Quote from: DomThe conical bolts aren't that expensive. They're called "flat head" and aren't any more expensive than any other stainless hardware(I assume that you will be using stainless). I suggest a flat head allen screw, as opposed to a flat head phillips, but I don't think that they will provide any more strength than any other type of bolt(i.e. button head, pan head, etc.) because the weakest point will be at where the head meets the thread. My $0.02. :cheers:
Ironically The load in a yank with 10 foot pole situation ... falls on the bottom part of the bolt head ... precisely where a washer will sit ... now that in the case of an allen cylindrical head will be a circle or a crescent depending on if its straight out pull or it its a lift up whihc makes it a non axial pull ... when you tighten it its a straight pull ... with the V shaped head ... you drill the hole and leave it as drilled and not mill it for a flat bottom ... the V on the bolt is the same angle as the V on the bottom of the drill (137 degrees isn't it) so it saves me 1 milling step ... and when its tightened the area of contact is a cone, and when you do a cockeyed pull its a part of a cone ... the spot with the threads actually sees nothing but straight tension as you tighten it ... and you dont crank it down so tight the threads get screwed up obviously ... when the thing is yanked up with the pole ... the bar sits in a countersunk hole in the cap part and it simply causes the cap to lift ... no where does the bolt seem like it wants to bend ... It will rock a little in the hole and hit the cap part which is where the marks for impact were ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: miloThink I'd like to order one, as I need to replace my bars and these look great. Is installation very difficult?
These are easier to fit than a stock bar ... you can do 1 side at a time ... I first slid the forks up inside the triple 1 inch then OK OK you have to take off the handle bar to get 1 inch but start with 1/2 inch, then take off the bar but slide it to the left and loosely clamp it,fit the cap and then take off the fittings on the right side of the bar, then slide it on to the new bar, and then put it in the cap on the right... BTW that means the nub on the switch is shaved/chewed ...and you probably should keep the brake cyl upright ...
Then left side ... it can be done with bar hanging down... undo all of it ... loosen is enough and slide out old bar and slide in new bar and put the cap on...
Cool.
Srinath.
Here is some old pics of us testing the bars ... these are the ones in my avatar ... The ones of the new type are just not as impressive ... cos well duh ... nohting spectacular was happening .. it was popping off the bike.... thought the one where the bike fell was interesting ...
Cool.
Srinath.
D-oh... forgot the link...
http://photobucket.com/albums/v122/Seshadri_srinath/
Cool.
Srinath.
OK the V head bolts and the piece I tested ...
http://www.gstwin.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=member_bikes&id=awd
You can see the impact marks on the thing ... I was able to drill out the bolt hole area and these are useable ... so I am going to use it on my 95 :lol:
BTW see how that left one is spread out more ... yea a few dozen of those yanks with a 10 foot pole will do that to it... it still clamps down and works ... like I said 6061 T6 is strong ...
BTW the thinnest part on the wall on the one on the right is ~.36 inches.
Cool.
Srinath.
BTW I was thinking you could buy an extra set of bolts ... so if they get chewed up you can swap them... however in my testing the bolt was fine... so maybe unneccesary .... but I do some custom special order shaZam! like this then I always worry what if these are not available later ...