GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

This is not exactly an official announcement ... not yet.

As I mentioned in another thread, I have shot footage for a full-length How-To video on doing a GS500 valve adjustment.   I may reshoot the whole thing before I make it generally available, I don't know.  While editing this, my first big video, I learned a lot about what I should have done!

In the spirit of trying to figure out what I'm doing, I would like to enlist some of your help.  I burned 3 CDs last night with a Windows Media Player version of the (roughly edited) video.  I brought them to work today on the off chance that the board would come back up.  My idea is to drop by the post office and ship them out to 3 of you on the way home.

Which 3?  Well, I'd like to get the best cross-section in two areas:

* I want someone who has never (or almost never) wrenched on their bike before ... and I want someone who is pretty darn good at wrenching on their bike.  (This is to get technical feedback from both ends of the spectrum.)

* I want someone who is only one or 2 States away from UT ... and I want someone near the East Coast or in Hawaii or something.  (This is to get a feel for the postage costs involved ... for when I start shipping

in earnest.)[/list:u]Ideally, I will find all four combinations in a set of 3 people.


The idea is that you:

1) Watch the 1 hour and 18 minute video on your computer

2) Read the included notes about things I already know I want to improve, and

3) Send me constructive feedback on the technical information conveyed as well as the "production value" aspects of the video.  (And whatever else you care to share.)[/list:u]
If you think you fit the bill, PM me your "qualifications" and your street address.  If you are selected I will notify you via PM, address one of the envelopes to you and drop it off at the post office on the way home.  If you are NOT selected I will still notify you via PM ... just maybe not today.

Oh, did I forget to mention that this first round is free of charge to the lucky 3?  Not that it's a huge discount - the materials I have purchased come to $.71 for a CD, thin jewel case and mailer envelope ... $.92 with a DVD instead of a CD.  Once I have the postage figured out I'll know what to charge in the future to recoup my costs.

Ladies & Gentlemen ... start your engines!  Good Luck.  :thumb:

Hmmm, not a single PM.  Well, I won't bother rushing to the Post Office before it closes then.

C'mon - it's my first video but it's not THAT bad!  ;)

I'll attribute the poor response to the board having been down, and the East Coast having left work before I posted the offer.

Maybe tomorrow....   :dunno:

PS - Hey Flash!  Did you get the package?  Did YOU watch the video?  What did YOU think of it?   :?

I'll PM ya Kerry......


Chris

OK, the "Far Away / Near Enough" slots are filled, as well as the "Newbie" category.

Now I need someone for the "Experienced Wrencher" slot.  I promised respondent #3 that if I get no such response by noon tomorrow ... the 3rd CD is his!

To anybody else who wants a CD sent out tomorrow:

* PM me your address

* I'll PM you my address

* I'll burn / package / ship the CD in the morning

* Drop $1 in the mail, please![/list:u]I'm sure the eventual materials & shipping cost will be slightly higher, so here is your chance!

On the other hand, the product should become noticeably BETTER in a week or two, so you may want to risk spending an extra $.10 to $.20 at  that point....  :roll:

I want one :cheers:

However, I think I will buy one later, in a couple of weeks, after you do the revision. I relate myself to a good wrencher with cars but I have never done anything to a bike. I will be in Cali by then, so that would be closer to ship :thumb:

i live in florida kerry and looking to do the same thing your doing, perhaps we can scan eachothers work for bumps or tips.  ive got a video capture card and a camcorder but want to set the camcorder up for an overhead view and get a remote/bullet cam to mount to a hat for 1st person view.  does the remote cam have a mic built in too?

you take paypal? i'll drop a couple bucks to you for it.

pm sent kerry

wish i woulda seen ya earlier

I'll help you out if you need it

sent ya a pm

Sounds fantastic!  I've been assembling my tools in anticipation of doing a valve adjustment within the next few weeks.

Question about the video, though.  What is it going to be encoded in?  If it's .WMV I'm afraid I won't be able to view it (I run Linux).

Quote from: KerryHmmm, not a single PM.  Well, I won't bother rushing to the Post Office before it closes then.

C'mon - it's my first video but it's not THAT bad!  ;)

I'll attribute the poor response to the board having been down, and the East Coast having left work before I posted the offer.

Maybe tomorrow....   :dunno:

PS - Hey Flash!  Did you get the package?  Did YOU watch the video?  What did YOU think of it?   :?

I haven't received it yet :(  :(  
It was supposed to arrive today, but the Post Office is closed b/c of Veteran's Day. Kerry, check your PM if you haven't yet.

Sorry - I was AWOL after work until about 9:45.  The wife and I needed to get some stuff in anticipation of our trip to FL on Saturday.

Working on the return PMs....

Kerry:

You're so cool to do this for people.  Remember, you can mail it "media" which would put it under $2 just about anywhere.  But, since it's so light I'd say it would go first class and still be around a buck.

You're darn close!

I sent out 4 CDs this morning.  Postage to CA and WA was $1.06, to Ontario was $1.35.  I'll find out about FL and OK this afternoon.

Here's what the packages include:
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1984_Video_Shipment.jpg)

Do you think the postage would be any cheaper if I changed to a CD-sized square mailer and used a windowed paper sleeve rather than a thin jewel case?

good to see that you have some sent out i am interested to see one as well once you get them cleaned up

dang... a day late and a dollar short... the story of my life. :lol:

I guess I'm too late for the test run, but I want in once full-scale production begins.  I'm at 4500 miles so I'm due for my first adjustment :oops:   Nice work Kerry :thumb:

The cleanup work hasn't begun yet, but I'm gearing up for it.  I have Pinnacle Studio Media Suite purchased and installed, but I only have specific feedback from ONE person so far.

Don't be shy - send me those comments.  Good or bad, I can take it!  I'm sure I won't be able to incorporate them all, but I would like multiple viewpoints....

Meanwhile, I have a better handle on my actual costs.  The big surprise for me was the postage:

1) CD-R:

$.21 (I bought stacks of 50 for $9.95 + 6.25% sales tax)

2) DVD-R or DVD+R: $.42  (I bought stacks of 25 for $9.95 + 6.25% sales tax)

3) Stiff mailer: $.31  ($.29 each plus 6.25% sales tax)

4) Thin jewel case: $.21  (I bought packs of 25 for $4.95 + 6.25% sales tax)

5) First-class postage within the U.S. (not sure about AK and HI yet): $1.06

6) PayPal fee: 2.9% + $.30 (I have an upgraded account that can accept credit card payments.)[/list:u]So for a CD shipment in the US the total is $1.79 if paying by check or money order and $2.15 if paying via PayPal.  For a DVD it will be $2.00 and $2.37 respectively.  NOTE: Both payment methods come out even after you include a $.37 postage stamp for the slower method.

BTW, the discs and jewel cases were bought at a half-off sale.  If I run out of them and have to replace them with full-price items I will pass the increase on.  In the meantime I will check for online sources.  I may also experiment with smaller packages (no jewel case, smaller mailer).  I'm not sure it will change the postage, but it will replace the jewel case with a cheaper sleeve.

These are my actual costs as figured from store and PO receipts.  I have not added (and do not plan to add) the cost of the equipment and software I have had to purchase, the time spent shooting and editing footage, or the time / gas / hassle spent in runs to the post office.  If a few extra cents means that you can't afford a copy ... then you have bigger things to worry about than valve clearances.  :?  In that case I wish you the best of luck, my friend!  :thumb:

Quote from: Kerrybut I only have specific feedback from ONE person so far.

Yeah but the feedback was A+ material!  ;)

I can attest that this video is an excellent guide.  It had a ton of great information, and can only imagine how great this will turn out after the final edits.   GJ Kerry!    :mrgreen:

still waiting  :(

Quote from: Blueknytstill waiting  :(

Hmmm.  I'll have to check into this when I get home.  I wonder if the dog-sitters took the mailers back out of our mailbox, thinking they had just come?

Rats - I knew I should have mailed yours after I got to Florida!  :x

I just went through all the numbers again and decided to post a more digestible version of my total costs (in US dollars):

 Pkg / Dest           Check        PayPal
==========================================
  CD to US:           $1.79        $2.15
 DVD to US:           $2.00        $2.37

  CD to Canada:       $2.08        $2.45
 DVD to Canada:       $2.29        $2.67



Any future changes will be posted to this thread.

Wow, thats awesome that you made the movies......i'm definately interested in getting a copy, let me know whenever you start mass-producing them and i'll definately be interested in purchasing a copy!!!  One other thought though, do you have any sort of server setup or anything like that where we could download it directly from you?  I know gmail accounts can have up to 1GB of space on them so you might be able to transfer it by gmail accounts, but im not sure how that would work.....just a thought, it might be easier(a than trying to send cd's out everywhere...

I can donate about 30 hard plastic cases, maybe more, I have to check at work.  They are leftovers from a project we did for a drug company.
I think I have some 6x9 envelopes also.
The cases are hard enough so you can just use a plain envelope.
Just PM me if you need them.
Mike

PM sent to you Kerry.

hey kerry, I'll be happy to buy a copy as it sits right now... (highly technical background, but relatively new to the GS)
I gotta say, I think you should charge a little more, just to cover your time and other expenses.  Let me know when your ready to sell, even the version as it sits, and then find a price that reflects how much time and money you've actually spent.   (I'm not a millionare, but valuable information is worth a bit more than a lousy 2 bucks to me)

I second cummuterguy's motion.  At least charge enough to buy a beer. :cheers:

Yup!  At least charge 10 or 15 bucks.  Hell, I think 20 is a good deal.  It's gonna save us hundreds of dollars!!

I second 10 bucks tag price motion, he he... anyway, I'd have to pay a higher postage fee to Mexico City... damn border!

Sheesh - you guys are going to have PBS knocking on my door any minute now!  

For now I'd rather just recover my materials and shipping costs.  Any extra money will just make my bookkeeping more difficult.  I'll think about davipu's "shim fund" idea and let you know....

Meanwhile, I'm about to be incommunicado for 18 hours or so.  I've gotta get a little sleep before boarding a plane for home in the morning.  I expect to pull into my driveway at about 7:00 PM Mountain time tomorrow.  (But don't blame me if I take a long nap before I get online!)

Kerry, when the video is done...or not, I would be most interested in the DVD. Please notify me via PM or email when you are ready to send them out en-masse. :)

Kerry, notice John's pricing suggestion above -- the bookkeeping gets a lot easier when you drink your profits. Call it part of the production cost. :cheers:

I'd happily donate $10 for such a video. In my first season riding and Gus's third (that's my bike, Gus) the odometer has gone from ~3500 to ~7500, and it's been acting just a little funny lately in the idle/warm-up department. I think a valve adjustment is in its future and I'd love to learn to do it myself.

Time to revive this thread!  :)

I've been looking for online sources of info that will help to explain the purpose of a valve adjustment.  You know, stuff like: "What's a valve?  And why would I want to adjust one?"

I have found some good stuff, which I would really like to include as introductory info on my "Suzuki GS500 Valve Adjustment" video.  However, since it's all copyrighted material I haven't come up with a good solution yet.

Meanwhile, I thought I would provide an overview HERE ... just in case it never makes it onto the video.

====================================

Before you can understand why it's important to keep your valves adjusted, you need to know a little about how our 4-stroke engines work.  Let's start with [an excellent animation and explanation of the 4-stroke cycle (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine1.htm)] from the pages of [HowStuffWorks (http://www.howstuffworks.com/)].  Notice how the carefully timed valve movements control the flow of air/fuel and exhaust into and out of the cylinder.

After you watch that animation for a while, look more closely at the area above the main action - the items labeled A, I and J.  Although the animation is very good, the SOHC (Single OverHead Camshaft) arrangement of camshaft and rocker arms doesn't accurately represent the GS500 engine.  The "top end" of the GS500 engine has a DOHC (Dual OverHead Camshafts) arrangement rather than an SOHC arrangement.

What's the difference between SOHC and DOHC?  Well, in an SOHC engine, a single camshaft controls both the intake and the exhaust valves.  The trade-off is that, while only a single camshaft is needed, the design is complicated by the use of rocker arms (items J in the animation above).  A DOHC engine uses two camshafts, usually one for the intake valve(s) and one for the exhaust valve(s).  Instead of using rocker arms, the lobes on the camshaft exert force directly inline with the valve stem itself.   This reduces the number of parts needed to actuate a given valve AND does away with the "change in direction" of the force exerted by the camshaft lobe.

For a closer look at the GS500 valve design, check out [THIS DIAGRAM (http://images.powersportsnetwork.com/fiche/images/Suzuki/1989/Motorcycles/2103_10.gif)] from the Hillsboro parts fiche pages.  (Expand the image to full size for better clarity.)  The diagram only shows the valve assemblies for the left side of the bike.

The camshaft on the right side of the diagram controls the two intake valves.  [Imagine the carburetors as being just out-of-sight, to the RIGHT of the diagram.]  Item 17 is the left-side intake valve.  When the valve is pushed downward, it creates an opening which allows the fuel/air mixture from the left-side carburetor to be sucked into the left-side cylinder.

Item 18 is the left-side exhaust valve.  When the exhaust valve is pushed downward, it creates an opening which allows the combusted fuel/air mixture (the exhaust) to be pushed out of the left-side cylinder and into the left-side exhaust pipe.  [Imagine the exhaust headers as being just out-of-sight, to the LEFT of the diagram.]

How do the valves get pushed downward?  As the camshaft spins, the cam lobe (item 1/2 or 8/9) comes in contact with the valve shim (item 24) which is sitting in the "cam follower" or "bucket" (item 15 or 16).  For our purposes, pretend that items 21 all the way down to 22 don't exist, and that the "bucket" pushes directly on the end of the valve stem (item 17 or 18).

As you can see, the "Shim" is simply a metal wafer.  Its thickness affects when the valve stem gets pushed, and when the valve opens and closes.  If the shim is too thick then the valve will be pushed open too soon and will stay open too long.  If the shim is too thin then the valve will open too late and not stay open long enough.  A very small change in the shim thickness can have a very definite effect on engine performance.  For the GS500, the difference between one shim size and the next is 1/20 of a millimeter, or 1/500th of an inch.  :o

--------------------------------------------------------------

Just for fun, let's back up and examine the valve actuation mechanism in its simplest terms.  First look at this [Disc Cam With Flat Follower (http://www.ul.ie/~kirwanp/disccamwithflatfollower.htm)] animation.  Here the bucket and shim have been simplified to a flat disk at the end of a shaft.

Next, move up to this [Camshaft Animation (http://www.ul.ie/~kirwanp/camshaftanimation.htm)].  You can see how the original mechanism has been coupled to a valve shaft.

Now put it all together with this [animation of a DOHC engine (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/4-Stroke-Engine.gif)].

--------------------------------------------------------------

OK, one last gasp.

How does a valve get "out of adjustment"?
Believe it or not, it's usually NOT because the shim wears down.  Rather, the contact surface between the flared end of the valve and the top of the cylinder -- the valve seat -- may become worn (causing the valve to be TOO TIGHT), or the valve may not fully retract to the closed position because of "gunk" that builds up between it and the seat (TOO LOOSE).

How can I tell whether a valve needs adjustment?
By measuring the clearance between the cam lobe and the shim (when the lobe is pointing AWAY from the shim).  You do that by inserting thin metal "feeler blades" into the gap until you find a pair of blades where one fits into the gap and the next thicker one doesn't.  The acceptable gap for the GS500 valves is from .03mm to .08mm.

How do I actually adjust a valve?
By replacing the current shim with one that is thinner or thicker -- so that the clearance is brought within the acceptable range.

====================================

There!  With that much background, everything I show in the video should make perfect sense.  :roll:

Quote from: Kerry......................
How does a valve get "out of adjustment"?
Believe it or not, it's usually NOT because the shim wears down.  Rather, the contact surface between the flared end of the valve and the top of the cylinder -- the valve seat -- may become worn (causing the valve to be TOO TIGHT), or the valve may not fully retract to the closed position because of "gunk" that builds up between it and the seat (TOO LOOSE).
...........................

Excellent.   :thumb:

Very comprehensive.

I'm sure you have thought of this.  There may be additional maintenance issues at the point where the clearances are found to be out of spec. that should be addressed prior to adjusting.
Like, what caused the valve clearance to be too great,

Possibly this should be covered elsewhere but could be referenced here?

Mabe you could charge $5. and use the excess to finance a complete tune-up video???

Like, other things that would be helpful to people would be,

-lifting/removing/replacing the gas tank
-cleaning/replacing the air filter
-cleaning and adjusting the chain
-checking spark plug condition and gap
-lubing the cables
-adjusting the clutch
-changing the oil
-etc.



THEN you'd be ready for PBS! :lol:

Thanks, Kerry, for the great work.

Quote from: ballyhooMabe you could charge $5. and use the excess to finance a complete tune-up video???

Like, other things that would be helpful to people would be,

-lifting/removing/replacing the gas tank
-cleaning/replacing the air filter
-cleaning and adjusting the chain
-checking spark plug condition and gap
-lubing the cables
-adjusting the clutch
-changing the oil
-etc. .

If Kerry made a tune-up video to those specifications including a carb cleaning section I would not even hesitate to purchase a dvd copy for $15-$25  excluding s/h. I am sure alot of people could benifit from a tune-up video like this aswell.

A "Small Jobs" DVD is in the plans.

But I was thinking about making a "Carb Cleaning" video next.  So many of the problems folks experience seem to be caused by dirty or poorly connected carbs.  Hmmm ... it shouldn't take 2 hours of video for that though.  Maybe I'll include a section on "Starting Problems" (mostly electrical).  :dunno:

I'm still looking for that good block of time to finish up the first DVD.  The initial edition may have to go out sans the introductory material in my previous post.  But it will move along better than the rough edit version, and it will be "chapter-ized".

Kerry, save yourself the hassle with those long-term equations.   I'll send you $10, if you need it that bad  :lol:

I actually put in an hour or two on the Valve Adjustment DVD a couple nights ago.  :o  Still have a ways to go, but I'm shooting for a March 1 release.

Meanwhile, it finally occurred to me to include some additional files on the Rough Edit CD version.  Those of you who have already received a CD may want to browse these files at http://www.bbburma.net/Documents/ValveAdjustmentVideo/.

Three of the 4 files were already available elsewhere, but README.TXT was created from scratch last night.  It includes a description of the special tools used for the task, and hints for breaking into (simple) video production yourself.

Most importantly, the README.TXT file includes a VIDEO TIMELINE.   :thumb:  It lists where each major "chapter" begins, using an HH:MM:SS timestamp starting at 00:00:00.  This should help folks who don't want (or need) to watch the video from start to finish.  All CDs that I ship from now on will have a printed copy of this file stuffed in the mailer along with the CD.

PS - For some reason all of the files except README.TXT appear when I browse that directory.  The file is there, so I don't know why it doesn't show up.  Here is the direct link (http://www.bbburma.net/Documents/ValveAdjustmentVideo/README.TXT).

I'm very excited about the new vid!   Kerry, I am going to be the next recipient of your traveling valve tools kit.  If you want me to beta test the new video as I do the work I'd be more than happy to do another write up.  Let me know if I can lend any assistance.  Its the least I could do to give back to this community.

Is there any way to download the video and can we put this in the FAQ ???

the video is available online at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2015554469142545363&q=suzuki+gs500 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2015554469142545363&q=suzuki+gs500).
I have never wrenched on anything before but I am mechanically inclined and I found the valve adjustment to be a breeze with Kerry's instructional video.

I saved this video so I can do my valves myself.  I watched it and when he said he was going to take the test shim out and put the 2.60 shim back in before he went to the shop to get the 2.50 he needed, he then cut tape and explained why he needed to use Permatex on his valve cover gasket the last time he adjusted his valves.  He then presumedly went to get the 2.50 shim.  All that obviously caused him to forget to take the test shim out so he put the 2.50 on top of it, put it all back together, and had to do it all over again.  He obviously didn't check his clearance after putting the 2.50 in or he wouldn't be able to fit any size feeler gauge in there!

I thought it was very self revealing of him to leave that gaffe in.  He easily could have edited it out!  All in all, great job, Kerry!  :thumb:

Oh yeah, and for 33 bucks there has to be a better valve bucket depression tool than that!  It was pure comedy watching him try to get it to hold the buckets down!   :technical:   :D