I'm about ready to install my progressive springs... but I don't want *too* harsh of a ride.... is it okay to just change out the springs (I also don't want to deal with sucking the oil out...)
The two are only loosely related. However, since the volumes change you will have to adjust the oil level. If you don't that makes for a hard ride. The additional steel volume in the oil raises the oil level -> less air cushion -> harder spring ratio and hydrolock before the end of the fork's travel.
And since you have it open anyway, why not change the oil (assuming that the oil in the fork is anywhere close to the end of its lifespan.)
Granted, the whole fork disassembly is a whole lot more work to do than to just take out the covers, but I'd strongly consider changing the oil (not necessarily to the more viscous type).
I changed to Progressive springs, and changed the fork oil, but replaced it with the stock weight (10wt, I think). Works fine for me. I may try 15wt some year, but that's way down on the list of things to try.
hmm... so is the whole 'syringe with a tube attached' method an okay way to change out the fluid?
my bike is an 89 with 13k. The seals seem to be fine; just the front is too soft.... when I brake hard it nearly bottoms out
The syringe's ok to adjust oil level. For oil change, definitely not. You'll never get out the oil down around the damper rod. It's hard enough to get the stuff out by turning the legs upside down and pumping.
I'm running the Progressives with 10w, the most important thing to do is proper suspension set-up. Now, I'm 125-130lbs, also tired of the dive issue, but still wanted a soft ride. Then I crashed. So, I obtained a book, Gary Jaene's Real World Sportbiking I & II, that spoke of 'Rider Sag'. Be sure to set your sag to about 1.4 to 1.55 inches. Good luck!
I'm seriously considering going back to the stock springs (maybe obtain someone local's old springs) & using a spacer. When we go to stiffer springs it makes our dampening even worse. We have poor dampening as it is, but when we fix one thing it makes other things obviously sub-standard.
I don't see why you would need to get All the oil out. If ou get most of it you'd be ok. I rode on 10wt and now I have 15wt (with progresives) the ride is more stable in the corners and on the straights the pot holes don't bother me as much. Either way you swing it, the ride is better with the 15wt in there.
They cost the same, so there is no reason not to put 15wt in there.
Cheers
-DS
I dropped the progressives right in and didnt change the oil or adjust the level. Worked fine.
After seeing my nasty fork oil come out of my 93 with 14k I would reccomend you change it. If you dont change it all atleast do a partial change.
The most oft neglected item is the changing of the fork oil. It, unfortuneately, is usually only changed whenever the seals fail; which is like every five years. It is supposed to be changed every other year, just like brake fluid.
scratch,
the damping is a function of oil viscocity
the stiffer springs and a little thicker oil..... are a gud thing
the springs minimize bottoming out
the thicker oil....slows down the action...better damping
Yeah, you're right. I have a couple of guys trying to sell me on some Gold Valves. For about $140.
When it's time to change my fork oil again I'll be trying 15w.
Quote from: se7enty7hmm... so is the whole 'syringe with a tube attached' method an okay way to change out the fluid?
my bike is an 89 with 13k. The seals seem to be fine; just the front is too soft.... when I brake hard it nearly bottoms out
Syringe works fine. Take the original oil down to the recommended level. That's what I did and the forks work terrific! You're gonna love the difference. :thumb:
buy some new oil and change it....it's F^%*in cheap
:? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?
QuoteGold Valves
these just give your a range of dampining with same oil weight. i have a set, with progressives and i run 20W oil, i love it, my front end does NOT pogo for nothing. Braking is great, love the feedback it gives me.
Quote from: werase643buy some new oil and change it....it's F^%*in cheap
:? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?
I've already bought a 1.5qts of 15w fork oil... it just looks like pulling the forks out to change the oil is royal pain. I don't race; and am a beginning rider so I don't know if the stiffer shock/suspension is even going to benefit me a whole lot
place bike on center stand
put some blocks under engine or use a car jack to get front wheel off of ground
pull wheel
pull one fork off at a time
it's not worth doing if you don't do it right.
Another vote to go ahead and do the oil. Takes maybe 15 extra minutes to suck it all out with a syringe (when you see how dirty it is, you'll be glad you did). Just suck it out, stick it in a jug and next time you go dispose of your motor oil, throw that in there too. Not worth the hassle of being forced to tear down the forks b/c your seals burst all b/c you wanted to save a few minutes. Plus.. you'll be glad you have the extra damping.
If you don't do it... you'll always wish you had.. and it'll bug the crap out of you everytime you hop on the bike.
trey
*edit* oh yeah, about it being too harsh... I'm not a big guy by any means (5'10" and 135lbs), and I wouldn't say the front end is harsh at all. If you're a bigger guy, the extra damping would probably really be noticed.
I did but it was more of an accident than anything. I asked the parts guy at the dealer (my 1st mistake) and then didn't check GStwin (my 2nd mistake) what oil to buy. I was replacing my fork seals at the time. He said most guys use 5wt oil so I could try 7wt to stiffen it up a bit :roll:
Surprisingly, I haven't noticed any ill effects from the 7wt. In fact, I've been quite happy with my forks. I have non-stock springs with spacers. I think they are race tech springs but they were installed long before I bought the bike so I'm not sure of the brand.
scratch, you'll have to try my bike out, I'm curious how your's compares to mine. I can cruise over and you can give it a test ride and then we can mount up that pipe of mine ;) (just not this weekend, I'm going up to WC this weekend to pick it up from home and paint my pipes)
Cool!
I am about to change the springs and oil. Most people recommend to change one spring at a time. However, the installation instructions from Progressive Suspension tells to measure the distance with the "fork completely collapsed". With this I am assuming that it is bottomed out. Now it would be just about impossible to bottom it out with one of the springs in place, but not when both springs are removed. Is it that when they say "completely collapsed" it is fully extended. If this is the case having one of the springs in would make life a lot easier.
So what is a "completely collapsed fork"?
Quote from: LEVOSo what is a "completely collapsed fork"?
One that has been removed from the bike entirely and then compressed by hand as far as it will go with the cap (and spring and spacer?) removed.
As Manjul (
The_good_guy) and I found out from sad experience, it's a really good idea to service the forks one at a time. Otherwise you're liable to mix and match parts that may not go together. Like, say, because a spacer came out of one fork and not the other when you were replacing the seals, and you tried to reassemble one side with both spacers.... :roll: :oops:
Like I thought. Thanks
Quote from: Kerry
One that has been removed from the bike entirely and then compressed by hand as far as it will go with the cap (and spring and spacer?) removed.
I remember you want the spring IN when you're measuring the fork oil depth... Probably wouldn't make a whole lot of difference, but I'm pretty sure the instructions say that...
If you're just doing it the lazy man's way, a la Pablo, I'd just do them both at the same time. Only parts you'll take off and put back on are the caps.. the springs and spacers will be new parts that you can't mix up... If you're taking apart the whole fork though, yeah.. I'd definitely say one at a time.
trey
Instructions read as follows (from Progressive Suspension): Oil level is from the top of fork tube to the top of the oil with fork completely collapsed and the fork spring removed.
I agree, there isn't anything there to mix. I'll do them at the same time.
Thanks
whoops.. stick foot in mouth... guess you don't want the spring in there. I wonder how I did mine.. :roll:
trey