overall... so far... not impressed. My instructers seemed like 'good ole boys'... basically they gave information that conflicted with everything I've read/learned.
Hopefully the ride time tommorow/the next day will be better.
hmm..... kinda interested in what conflicts there are!
things like mesh is better than leather, hmm.. what else.. oh. this guy rode up on a cbr1000rr.. first bike ever, had 300 miles on it
"as long as you don't gun it you're fine"
the new rider said was buying for "long term'
I was like.. if you live to see long term..
the two instructers basically were like nice bike, good choice. Then went on to talk about how if your going to get a suzuki as a first bike a good choice is the gsx-r 750....
I was like.. um.. ok. whatever.
Where are you from? O_o
MSF is an instuctional course. I didn't take one. I walked into the DMV and asked the lady what I needed to get my mc certification. She told me that I needed to get my learner's permit by passing a written test then take the ridden test. Then she told me that I was just in time to take the written test...so without studying anything, cocksure as all get out, I sat down in front of the computer telling myself that I was going to ace it. Failed...got about 30% wrong. You can only fail once a day so I took the book home, read it once and passed the test the next day only getting 3 wrong out of 23...good enuf to pass. The same lady at the desk called me a "little shaZam!" because on my way in I asked her if she wanted to bet money against me. Then she told me that one guy had to take the written three times before he finally passed...I made the obligatory "geez, what a dumbass..." comment and was on my way. :cheers:
Dom-dont take this the wrong way but you're a dumbass if you think there's nothing that you could take from the MSF course. Cocksure for sure. I passed my written on the first try. Big deal. Didnt make me a good rider. The MSF course taught me how to be a smart rider and a safe rider. If you dont take the class at least read Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough. Things I learned in MSF have saved my skin many times.
Se7enty7-sounds like you got yourself into the wrong class. The way you describe your MSF is nothing like what I have heard others or how mine was. First day was classroom instruction. Second was on the "range", on bikes. Third in class and fourth range again, with the test at the end. Report back after your first range day to let us know if its as bad on the range as it is in class. it sounds rediculous. Where is the class being given?
I dont need no stinkin' school man!!! School's for NERDS!!!
My first "riding" day at MSF class sucked. One of the instructors was this huge mean woman who assumed we memorized everything already. She was like all in your face if you made a mistake. Some of the girls dropped out, and lots of people complained. She was mysteriously gone during the second riding day, and everyone that was left did really well, and had fun.
The moral of the story is: I would complain to whoever runs the course you are taking (it was a local junior college for me), and demand that they refund your money, or set you up in a different course with different instructors. For me personally, I got a lot out of the course, because it was the first time I ever rode a bike. We had our 18-year-old squid with mom's credit card and a liter sportbike, complete with huge ego. Everyone basically looked down on that whole attitude, and the instructors gave him hell. Hopefully you get it all worked out.
Before you can ride, even a 50cc scoot here you have to take the CBT, compusory basic training. It is supposed to be a couple of hours in class, a couple of hours riding on "off road" tarmac, exercises and the like and a couple of hours out and about, usually on a 125cc bike. When I turned up, old geezer, and a couple of 17yr olds, The instructor talked for five minutes about riding gear then said "You won't learn bugger-all" in the classroom so lets go straight to the bikes. It was a really good informative "fun" day.
Here if you pass the written-test, hazard perception (another computer game) and practical ridden test on a 125cc you are stuck with a 33hp (about) for 2 years so a lot of peaople follw the CBT with three or fours days "direct access" training on a 500 then test. That is the difficult bit but remember to take as much from it as you can and enjoy it. You never ever know as much as you would like to know or think you know, but never stop enjoying it.
Quote from: DomI dont need no stinkin' school man!!! School's for NERDS!!!
Yea man Dom ... I wait outside the school ... and beat up the little nerds ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: pantabloDom-dont take this the wrong way but you're a dumbass if you think there's nothing that you could take from the MSF course. Cocksure for sure. I passed my written on the first try. Big deal. Didnt make me a good rider. The MSF course taught me how to be a smart rider and a safe rider. If you dont take the class at least read Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough. Things I learned in MSF have saved my skin many times.
Se7enty7-sounds like you got yourself into the wrong class. The way you describe your MSF is nothing like what I have heard others or how mine was. First day was classroom instruction. Second was on the "range", on bikes. Third in class and fourth range again, with the test at the end. Report back after your first range day to let us know if its as bad on the range as it is in class. it sounds rediculous. Where is the class being given?
I agree... I have no regrets in taking the class. Most of the time, it entitles you to an insurance discount also. (plus it got me out of taking the DMV riding skills test.) The instructor(s) at the MSF class Se7enty7 is taking have their heads screwed on wrong (IMHO)... I don't think my instructors really suggested any particular sized 1st bike, I think they avoided the subject in order to protect themselves.
If I had a CBR as a first bike, I would have lost it a couple of times already. I had a bad habit of accidently rolling the throttle while braking. On a 250 no problem. Even on my 620 it was not a huge ordeal. (I think I broke that habit now) But on a liter race bike!! You can imagine!! Not to mention the insurance in Calif on one of those would be as much as a house payment...
BTW... a GS500 IS a good first bike! :thumb:
The IMC - Introduction to Motorcycling Course here is South Carolina is a three day affair under the state technical school system (junior college). The MSF instructors were professional and very experienced. We had 18 students, 14 women - 4 men. With 9 bikes we split up into two range days. All of us had class on Friday night, one riding session of Sat., the other on Sunday.
While in Cleveland, OH for a month I spent some time at a very nice multiline dealer (Honda, Ducatti, Triumph, KTM, and another one or two I have forgotten). It was there I met a nice lady who also was an MSF instructor. It seems that different states, here in the US, have variations in the beginners course. I was shocked at the price difference.
Ohio has the 3rd largest per capita number of MC endorsements in the US. A portion of a bike's license plate fee goes to fund MSF classes. I paid $159 for my two day experience (yes, 2 days only). In Ohio it would have been 3 days for less than $50 (I thought I remember her telling me $25 but to be safe I know it was less than $50.)
I think it has made me a better automobile driver. I was always aware of riders but am even more so now. When I get my hanger queen on the road, the GS BTW was recommended by one of the guys in the Ohio shop, I intend to practice skill building.
The MSF course is intended to enable you to practice skill building. I think se7enty7 should take the type of bike these instructors are recommending with a grain of salt. Skill development will vary with base talent and the time available to practice.
It is a shame that riders killed because of ignorance (or arrogance) are not able to give their opinion of what they should have done. Experience is the best teacher - wait a minute - being killed is also an experience. We can learn from them. Darwin may have had a good point.
There is a great article in the January 2005 issue of Cycle World, "Picking Up the Pieces" by Steve Anderson. Buy an issue, read the article, and then wear a bib when you look at the new MotoGP wanna-be American bike, the MotoCzysz C1.
Michael Czysz has some great ideas in that machine.
It's $25 in Ohio.
Quote from: starwaltI think it has made me a better automobile driver.
I totally agree. Every time I make a lane change in my panel van I look extra hard in my blind spots just in case there is a mc rider in them.
My experience with the basic rider course was excellent. Expert, tough but fair instructors. Six gals and six guys in the class. We had a great time. One day in class, two on the range. $25 included the bikes.
I plan on taking the experienced rider course in 2005. It is $25 for one day, use your own bike. I'm going to try to drag my two sons, CBR600F4 and Buell S1, along. :roll:
Quote from: John BatesOne day in class, two on the range. $25 included the bikes.Quote
John confirms it. I thought she told me $25 in Ohio AND 3 full days.
<sigh>
I took the MSF here in TX for a couple of reasons.
1. I had not been on a bike for several years
2. My wife was happier that way
3. Helped slightly on insurance and made DMV test simpler
I passed the writtern and road skills with 100% with little effort.
That said, I considered it a very valuable experience. If no other reason, it makes you practice scenarios that you otherwise might not do.
Half my class was riders that either had tickets or wanted to get the TX helmet exemption sticker. Several of the old timers had problems with the box and with swerving. One of them even dropped his bike.
It is not a perfect system and a crappy instructor could make it a waste of time and money but I still think it is a good idea.
Okay second day done.
This honestly is a joke. If it weren't for an insurance reduction and automatic full mc license I'd demand a refund.
Class has 12 people. 2 women (supposed riders.)
of the 10 men, 4 considered themselves 'comfortable and proficient on a motorcycle'. These 4, and the 2 women, didn't have a fsck clue what they were doing. One owns a cbr1000rr. For someone with that kind of bike, he couldnt get a GN125 or nighthawk around those cones for sh!t. This group of 6 really slowed down the rest of the class.
Out of the remaining 6, 2 had never ridden a motorcycle in their life. 2 others (me included.) owned a motorcycle, but had ridden for less than 6 months. The last two rode harley's and are/were a-holes that talked about how 'if they had their ultraglide they could do this with no problem, etc. etc. One weighed about 300lbs... on a GN125.. heh
Okay, on to the course.
I can ride in a circle and around cones like nobodies business. I can duck-walk the motorcycle, and can definetely dismount, mount, and start it.
Thus far, I wouldn't recommend this course to someone who has ridden for 6months+. It would be perfect for a NEW rider, and imo, that's about it. I have read enough on this forum to MORE than cover the videos/coursework in the class.
I wish I didn't have to say this... but waste of $250. Also this stupid wh0re in the class banged her helmet clasp against my mirrored faceshield.. scratching it. arg. On a better note, the guy with the cbr1000rr let me try on his scorpion helmet (REALLY nice looking, seems of much better quality than my HJC cl-14.. only his helmet seems really small for a L) and tried on his joe rocket meteor 4. Nice jacket, seems good for warm weather
One of the teachers told this totally new-never-been-on-a-bike 130lb guy that a gsx-r1000 would be a good first bike as long as he didn't run it at it's limits. I honestly don't think the TEACHER could run it at its limits.. but whatever.
Did you get a chance to fill out an evaluation for the range teachers?
Quote from: hairballDid you get a chance to fill out an evaluation for the range teachers?
not yet.. the first day (fri night) is 4 hours class time.
2nd today.. today.. 9 hours or so total, probably 7 of it outside on the bike, 2 inside watching videos/reviewing book.
3rd day.. tommorow.. is supposed to be mainly outside, and will consist of the riding test.
Quote from: Cal PriceBefore you can ride, even a 50cc scoot here you have to take the CBT, compusory basic training. It is supposed to be a couple of hours in class, a couple of hours riding on "off road" tarmac, exercises and the like and a couple of hours out and about, usually on a 125cc bike. When I turned up, old geezer, and a couple of 17yr olds, The instructor talked for five minutes about riding gear then said "You won't learn bugger-all" in the classroom so lets go straight to the bikes. It was a really good informative "fun" day.
Here if you pass the written-test, hazard perception (another computer game) and practical ridden test on a 125cc you are stuck with a 33hp (about) for 2 years so a lot of peaople follw the CBT with three or fours days "direct access" training on a 500 then test. That is the difficult bit but remember to take as much from it as you can and enjoy it. You never ever know as much as you would like to know or think you know, but never stop enjoying it.
Holy cow Mr. Price...!!! All that work over here and ya might get a pilots license. Here in NYC to become a cab driver you must have a suspended license and speak absolutely no english except in relation to money and a few expletives. PS...never took the MSF course but i do plan to, After i change my sheets that is... :nana:
I think it depends on the company that runs the course.
The guy who does the Gray's Harbor course is a duck. Waste of $100. I decided *&^% him, I'll learn on my own.
However, now that I need full insurance on my financed F650, I'm taking the course (this time, the Seattle course!) to get a discount. And it's awesome; I'm learning something from it despite it being a basic course. And it's all due to the instructors. The guy who's teaching the current course is quite cool. I think I should have noticed - the Gray's Harbor instructor drove a truck in on a lovely summer day, and the Seattle instructor rode a bike in on a nasty dark raining Seattle evening.
how much of a discount is it going to give you? when I asked the insurance co, they told me it was like 5 bucks a month.
After 6 months of riding, I took the experienced rider course in indiana. It was a one day course (~4hrs) and the class was on your own bike. It was pretty easy and informative. Due to everyone being close to the same skill level we went right through all of the exercises. I think it si the same thing as the beginers class minus the begining crap and everything was compressed into a shorter time frame. Overall the class was excellent, but I am glad I didn't take the beginers course. it would have been boring and a waste of 3 days.
Juggernaught, many a strange word spoken in jest, re pilots license. My "off road" time was on a private airport perimiter road whilst one of my mates was doing "circuits and bumps" on the main runway. Lucky single guys can afford these things!
I think NY cab drivers also have to be blind in one eye don't they? You have to ride around London on a push-bike for months before "Doing the knowledge" which gets you a black-cab permit. Mini cabs are a bit different, the over-riding qualification seems to be you have to be a Kurdish or Kosovan racing driver.
Incidently, In Germany you have to take something very like our one-day CBT on a small motorcycle before you can drive a CAR! They recon that this makes the average German car driver much more aware of other road users particularly those on two wheels. I have no experience but it sounds reasonable.
wow, that truly sucks you are having such a bad experience. I can't believe people like that are allowed to teach the MSF course. No wonder there are so many motorcycle fatalities. :(
I had ridden dirt bikes for YEARS before I got a street bike and was dead set against taking the MSF course because I "knew it all." After much convincing from others, I signed up and paid a hefty fee ($400) to take the MSF in NY. Within two hours of being on the range I was glad I had taken the course. Most of the things that applied to offroad are considered bad habits for the street. I'm glad I didn't learn the hard way! :mrgreen: Also, I learned a LOT about different types of gear and they even showed us examples of jackets, boots, helmets, pants, and rain gear.
I will sign up for the advanced class in a couple of years and renew my insurance discount! :thumb:
Quote from: Cal PriceIncidently, In Germany you have to take something very like our one-day CBT on a small motorcycle before you can drive a CAR! They recon that this makes the average German car driver much more aware of other road users particularly those on two wheels. I have no experience but it sounds reasonable.
COOL! I have said 100 times that should be policy in the US!! People would be much better and more aware drivers if they had to spend some time on two wheels before piloting a 1 ton cage! :cheers:
okay I stand corrected.
Figured out the problem... one of the two teachers was totally new at this.
The other, more experianced teacher did almost all of today's class. Wow.. I honestly feel like today was worth.. $100. So, while I didn't get my money's worth, I AM a better rider. Also, after reflecting a bit, a good 90% of the class benefited from yesterday and the day before..
I'll sum it up with:
4mo+ of riding? Already know how to ride on dirt, etc? Buy proficient motorcycling, and read it. Then read it again. I hope you can do this in the time I spent fri night and saturday learning how to ride a motorcycle. Then, take the experianced rider course (ERC). I think that's what I'll be taking next.
The more experianced teacher was awesome. His name is karl snell, and really taught me a lot. oh.. he asked me to come back in 2 years and teach for the MSF.. he said I had excellent 'natural skill'.. :P awesome..
I also got a cool patch, sticker, and el cheapo pin.
As the more experianced teach said:
patch: $5.
sticker: $2
pin: $243, so keep track of it.. lol
Regarding the instructor who thought the student's liter bike was "OK"... the instructor is in a tough position. If they told everyone "start with a 125, 250 or maybe a 500", nobody would take them seriously. They have to deal with riders who come in with too much bike week in and week out. It wouldn't be productive to be honest with them. BTW, I thought I could handle a large bike until I took MSF; once I was done with MSF, even the GS500 was intimidating the first time. But if they had told me that a GS500 would be intimidating on day 1, I might not have given them my full attention.
You mention that 6 of the people in the course thought they knew how to ride, but couldn't do a cone weave. But you also suggest that anybody with 6+ months of riding should skip the course. I think what you're saying is "anybody LIKE ME with 6+ months of riding should skip it... but those other idiots... they should take MSF every 6 months until they get it right". Unfortunately, when you write that MSF is a waste of time for riders with 6+ months experience, you won't know if the person reading is "like you" or "like THEM". To be on the safe side, it's best to just say "take the course, and see for yourself if you really know the basics". Too many people decide they've "got it down".
For my part, the MSF was challenging for me to:
-do the box figure-8's
-keep accelerating through the 180-degree turn
and
-keep my head cranked way, way around during the turns
Even though the cone weave was a "piece o'cake", just practicing those few things made the MSF worth it for me. Having taken the MSF means that I keep the weight on the rear wheel better in turns, look through the turn, and know how to move my but to the outside in a tight slow turn.
...oh, and I get a 10% discount on all non-sale items at the local parts/accesories shop (see the MSF website for a list of retailers that give discounts).
Quote from: Rema1000..............You mention that 6 of the people in the course thought they knew how to ride, but couldn't do a cone weave. But you also suggest that anybody with 6+ months of riding should skip the course. I think what you're saying is "anybody LIKE ME with 6+ months of riding should skip it... but those other idiots... they should take MSF every 6 months until they get it right". .............
no. What I said was that my MSF class was like that. I don't think they are all taught the same. I also think someone with 6mo experiance should take the ERC, and stand behind that.
And it's not an 'idiot' thing. They aren't idiots for HAVING experience, it's more like 'acting like' they have experience. And yes, there were all idiots. They would screw up bigtime, then point out how other people in the class were doing things wrong that really weren't that bad.
I keep hearing my MSF instructors say "Look through the turn!" or "Turn your head!" They should be able to tell because they are observing our ability and habits. I am/was green. Hadn't been on bike since teenage days on a Harley mini at my cousin's in farmland Illinois.
Fortunately the MSF range is about 4 miles from my house. My plan is to go there when they aren't training and run the couse over and over and over... The intermediate course requires your own bike - work in progress - and I want to take it ASAP.
The idea is to build skill until it is instinctive. The dangerous situations don't give you time to think, "Gee. I believe this would be a good way to react." By then you may be a statistic.
Congratulations! :thumb:
I still feel cheated out of a day though. But that is the wide variation from state to state.
We ought to start a sticky thread that records MSF prices, the amount of time spent, and the bikes used. Would be interesting reading (or depressing come to think of it).
Quote from: se7enty7no. What I said was that my MSF class was like that. I don't think they are all taught the same. I also think someone with 6mo experiance should take the ERC, and stand behind that.
Sorry to get it wrong. It sounds like your class was so bad, that it didn't even help the 6 idiots! Dang. I can see how that could turn you off to MSF. And based on your experiences, the MSF would be a waste of time for lots of people. Hopefully, it was just a problem caused by that one instructor.
We had two guys in our basic MSF class who had been riding for YEARS on their 'Hogs' and one of them almost failed. I would NEVER say "oh, well if you have ridden for 6 months, go with ERC", because, quite frankly, a LOT of people are just plain lucky to be alive. :lol:
My course was among the best hundred bucks I've ever spent. Two nights of class followed by two mornings of parking lot riding on a provided 250cc with 9 other people. While taking this class enabled me to learn how to ride in general and get my motorcyle class on my license, I figured out over time that putting these two instructors together was a cagey move and actually beneficial. One instructor was this woman who rode a Harley and while she was a good time, didn't totally go by the book wording, instead giving personal experiences which made it easier to understand what to expect. I don't know about you, but reading about riding on bridge grating and what 'should' happen doesn't hold a candle to hearing about her first ride across the Bay Bridge, being gusted around, and getting the shaZam! scared out of her. She also didn't hold any hands and was pretty quick to judge who was about to blow the test, and focused on telling them so and trying to fix whatever problems they were having, leaving the slightly better riders to focus on their own with the limited free time we had. The other guy was this keyed up, anal retentive little BMW rider who was very by the book, had no patience, and gave no real life experiences. In hindsight, the interesting thing about the instructors is that they totally played off each other and the mix of their riding experience and teaching styles was really cool, a lot better than someone reading through a book and cracking a whip at you. Not only that, but the instructors avoided all mention of what was a "good" bike or "bad" bike, what size you should start with, etc, instead focusing on the techniques that apply to riding any bike. It kind of knocked my socks off to hear that your instructors were initially endorsing a 750 and being lax about a beginner with a total rocket of a bike in their class. But that's me. Anyway, my course was awesome and if I had passed only by acing a written test, I think I'd be a pretty sucky rider.
Quote from: sevenbucks..............The other guy was this keyed up, anal retentive little BMW rider who was very by the book, had no patience, and gave no real life experiences...............
sort of similar to what happened to me. the 'other' guy was a keyed up, somewhat anal retentive bmw rider. In hindsight, I think his personality ("I" am always right, any suggestions, and every else is wrong") is different from mine and a lot from the 'better' instructor (who rode a triumph sprint 955 (995?)st...
Sorry to hear you had such a nasty experience. I would be sure to report it to the MSF people, as they don't want to hear that kind of thing.
Reminds me of when I took the MSF. The instructors were both in their late 20's and engaged. The man was really laid back most of the time. He did the range setup and moved all the bikes. The woman was just the opposite. Her focus was more on providing pointers and helping our technique. Together they made a good team, I thought.
As for the class itself, I had a blast. The guy seemed in a hurry for some reason, causing a couple of the slower learners to suffer. The only "seasoned rider", a Harley rider constantly yapping about how experienced he was, passed with 1 point to spare. He attributed it to "not being used to the small bikes". Yeah, Rrright! As a side point, this guy wouldn't let alone the "crotch rocket crowd" and was very vocal in class. Then he found out that both instructors ride CBR's. :lol:
Three people dropped out. One girl high-sided a 125 out of a wheelie on the first day and decided she had enough. The other was asked to leave after showing up 20 minutes late. The third student just couldn't figure out the clutch, and was asked to come back for the next course.
All said I thought it was a good course and well worth the $20 I paid to get in. We have it good in IL, it's free. :P
Quote from: ghettoriggedWe had two guys in our basic MSF class who had been riding for YEARS on their 'Hogs' and one of them almost failed. I would NEVER say "oh, well if you have ridden for 6 months, go with ERC", because, quite frankly, a LOT of people are just plain lucky to be alive. :lol:
Yep. The father of a friend of mine has been riding a Harley for longer than I've been alive, but said friend assures me that I ride better than he does... he always drops it on gravel, every time he hits it.
Quote from: GeePOne girl high-sided a 125 out of a wheelie on the first day
How the hell do you do that...?
Quote from: GeeP.....................
All said I thought it was a good course and well worth the $20 I paid to get in. We have it good in IL, it's free. :P
If I had paid $20 I would have been MUCH more than satisfied. the $250 is ridiculous
Quote from: se7enty7Quote from: GeeP.....................
All said I thought it was a good course and well worth the $20 I paid to get in. We have it good in IL, it's free. :P
If I had paid $20 I would have been MUCH more than satisfied. the $250 is ridiculous
You must be in Calif... That's what I paid also! I didb't get the pin and patch :roll: .... Too bad you can't just take the last riding session for a discounted rate! The entire class was worth it for me. I had never ridden a motorcycle before the class unless you call a friends Honda Trail 50 a motorcycle!! LOL...
Did I mention it was $400 in NY? :?
I hate all of you! :mrgreen:
Quote from: ghettoriggedDid I mention it was $400 in NY? :?
I hate all of you! :mrgreen:
$400................, $250..............., whatever. :guns:
Quit complaining. :roll:
I paid only $25 but my taxes are higher. :x
<--- no, no! not complaining, just being humorous! :thumb:
I feel my $400 was VERY well spent on my course and I wouldn't trade it for one of the free courses with questionable instructors. :cheers:
I would have to question the higher taxes than Philadelphia though... (is it possible?) :lol:
Quote from: ghettoriggedI would have to question the higher taxes than Philadelphia though... (is it possible?) :lol:
We've got sales taxes pushing 10%...
But it all evens out. We have low vehicle tabs, thanks to Eyman (don't even start me on him!), and the city is having serious budget problems. Seattleites aren't used to being a big city, and the fact that a big city is a big tradeoff. Chicago, where I'm from, is used to that; you have to pay for a sticker every year to park a vehicle in the city (even just to park for an afternoon's shopping), but the transit is so good, I never needed a vehicle, and there was just so much cool stuff to do, from parks to museums to public art, and so on.
We don't have MSF; we have companies contracted by the Washington Safety Council (I think that's its name?). They offer courses for $250; some of the money from motorcycle licensing fees are kicked back into $100 subsidized courses. A motorcycle endorsement is $25 per renewal on top of the auto license.
Quote from: RoadstergalQuote from: GeePOne girl high-sided a 125 out of a wheelie on the first day
How the hell do you do that...?
We were practicing quick stops. When she reached for the front brake she managed to get full throttle. It scared the crap out of her and she let go of the clutch. Quite Impressive, she rode it for about 50 ft before pulling in the clutch and grabbing the front brake. She came down with the bars turned to the left and got thrown off the right. :nono:
She was all ready to get back on until her knee started acting up. I think I would have called it a day! :o
Quote from: GeePWhen she reached for the front brake she managed to get full throttle. It scared the crap out of her and she let go of the clutch. Quite Impressive, she rode it for about 50 ft before pulling in the clutch and grabbing the front brake.
That's pretty impressive, all right!
It must take some doing to be able to get anywhere near the front brake while pulling full throttle, though. Well, I guess something that has a one-in-a-million chance of happening on a given ride is going to happen if a million people ride...
hah.. those gn125's I don't think I could have MADE one do a wheelie
Quote from: RoadstergalIt must take some doing to be able to get anywhere near the front brake while pulling full throttle, though.
I had a related problem several times during MSF: I grabbed the brake, but while pulling back on the brake lever, I rolled the throttle grip at the same time. Imagine laying your palm over the handgrip, with the fingertips curled around the brake lever. Now slide your whole hand towards yourself, pulling the brake lever while rolling the throttle.
Luckily, the clutch was always pulled too, but it produced several panic stops where the engine was whining like jet turbine (125cc, I think :) ). I just froze, then gradually figured out which hand I needed to move, and let go with the RIGHT hand. I got some stern looks from the instructors, but eventually learned not to do that!
Quote from: Rema1000Quote from: RoadstergalIt must take some doing to be able to get anywhere near the front brake while pulling full throttle, though.
I had a related problem several times during MSF: I grabbed the brake, but while pulling back on the brake lever, I rolled the throttle grip at the same time. Imagine laying your palm over the handgrip, with the fingertips curled around the brake lever. Now slide your whole hand towards yourself, pulling the brake lever while rolling the throttle.
Luckily, the clutch was always pulled too, but it produced several panic stops where the engine was whining like jet turbine (125cc, I think :) ). I just froze, then gradually figured out which hand I needed to move, and let go with the RIGHT hand. I got some stern looks from the instructors, but eventually learned not to do that!
I did the exact same thing ONCE except for some reason I didn't pull the clutch in. We were using 250cc's. It was when I was coming into the "staging area". Luckily I was in the 2nd row. Blasted right in between the people stopped in the front row.... The look on their faces!!! (And mine!)...
I was really careful after that about rolling off the throttle fully before braking... I kind of did the same thing a couple of times (but not to an extreme) while practicing my first hundred miles or so. No problems now 1500 miles later...
ok unlike everyone here who took the MSF then got their licens in MD you have a choice:
#1 -pass written and physical [driving] test through DMV aftering riding w/ a permit for 4months...
#2-pass MSF beginners course
Me being the "nerd" :roll: Went to the DMV got a motorcycle pamphlet and studied that thing like the bible and passed the two test having never ridden a motorcycle. the driving part was basicly quick stops, the u-turn in the box and cone weaving and a quick stop on a turn.
Days later I buy a GS500e as "my bike" having obtained my permit through my dad's ol' 750nighthawk...ok ya 750 was intimidating for my little 120lb frame slim jim :nana: When I got on the GS for a real spin [after the sale] IMHO is has more bite than the nighthawk. Watch out for the disc brake invention I managed to lock the front tire on my first "quick stop" on the GS..didn't drop the bike but it was an intresting feel :o
MOrals I have learned having gone back and taking the MSF beginners and advanced is that squids will be squids. People are dumb and arrogant. My two instructors were good offering alot of pointers to brand spanking new motorcyclst. I admit I did some showing off in the beginner's class because I had already ridden my dad's 750 and my GS500 for a few months and had mastered some skills. However I did pick up the name "speedy" on the range because I liked to see what those 250 rebels could crank out :bs: Lets just say you might as well push them up the highway on-ramp...but I would be doing the beginner circles and oval track exercises in 3ard gear while everyone else was putt'n in 2...THere were 3 women in our class 2 were quite good and the third took a low side and came back the second day and finished the class :) While us "men" consisted of me "speedy" young and a bunch of mid 40's guys that I assumed ride "hogs" I'll never forget when the instructor showed up for class ridding in on a ninja zx-9r and I was almost in tears in shear beauty :kiss: :kiss: I quote her "don't any of you guys/gals go off and buy a sport bike untill you master my couse [insert evil laugh]" then the other instructor shows up on a "hog" It's all good I learned things in the advanced course I didn't know and fine tuned my skills and "inspired" others in the beginner's course 8)
In MD it was $125 for the beginner's and $50 for the advanced since you supply the bike and all...I'd cry If I droped my bike :nono:
Quote from: Jace009ok unlike everyone here who took the MSF then got their licens in MD you have a choice:
#1 -pass written and physical [driving] test through DMV aftering riding w/ a permit for 4months...
#2-pass MSF beginners course
Same choice in WA. I took the course this past weekend a) for the discount and b) what the heck, I might learn something. And I did!
It seems there are some skill building errors that are common to all new riders, myself included.
The roll-on-throttle-while-braking thing started to happen to me also. I also heard more than one high revving engine before a classmate figured out what was wrong.
Skill Building. That's it plain and simple. Riding motorbikes requires multiple simultaneous extremity movements and constant processing of surroundings to be successful. Once that becomes instinctual, if it could ever become that way, skill level may plateau.
I obtained a new perspective of the word "motorsport" after MSF.
From the street safety perspective I paraphrased, "Assume everyone with more than two wheels is trying and will try to kill you."
From the equipment perspective I learned that bikes ridden by everyone are not comfortable for anyone.
From the classmate perspective I learned that it takes all kinds to make up beautiful thing like motorcycling. Yes, even squids. Darwinian theories usually take care of them. :)
Hmm. About rolling-on-the-throttle while braking? What about blipping for downshifts under braking? I do that occasionally.... roll off the throttle, apply frint brake.. clutch in, hit the downshift while using my palm to give a quick blip, then feed out the clutch while easing off the brakes... go into the corner, roll on. :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
Quote from: Jace009ok unlike everyone here who took the MSF then got their licens in MD you have a choice:
#1 -pass written and physical [driving] test through DMV aftering riding w/ a permit for 4months...
#2-pass MSF beginners course
Me being the "nerd" :roll: Went to the DMV got a motorcycle pamphlet and studied that thing like the bible and passed the two test having never ridden a motorcycle. the driving part was basicly quick stops, the u-turn in the box and cone weaving and a quick stop on a turn.
Oh lord! That reminds me of when I took my CDL tests at the DMV. I didn't practice for the range driving test at all. While I was finding a place to park I asked the guy with me where the truck range was. He pointed and said "over there, inside the motorcycle range." I just kinda sat there for a moment before saying "Did you say INSIDE the motorcycle range!?" :? That stupid range was pure torture. :x
I decided when I wanted to get my motorcycle endorsement that I'd plunk down the money, however much it happened to be and take the course. :)
Quote from: se7enty7Okay second day done.
This honestly is a joke. If it weren't for an insurance reduction and automatic full mc license I'd demand a refund.
......
I wish I didn't have to say this... but waste of $250. Also this stupid wh0re in the class banged her helmet clasp against my mirrored faceshield.. scratching it. arg. On a better note, the guy with the cbr1000rr let me try on his scorpion helmet (REALLY nice looking, seems of much better quality than my HJC cl-14.. only his helmet seems really small for a L) and tried
I was given the op[toin of getting my money back at the end of the MSF course here in illinois. if you paid $250, was it really a MSF course? or was it a private lesson company?
As for the CL-14. It is the lower end dot and snell helmet from HJC. Try on a AC-11 and you might have a better opinoin. The CL-14 is a plastic noodle bucket, the AC-11 is composite. It's somewhat lighter, and comes with a breath guard, and you can't feel the seams in the liner like you can with the CL-14
Quote from: GeePQuote from: Jace009ok unlike everyone here who took the MSF then got their licens in MD you have a choice:
#1 -pass written and physical [driving] test through DMV aftering riding w/ a permit for 4months...
#2-pass MSF beginners course
Me being the "nerd" :roll: Went to the DMV got a motorcycle pamphlet and studied that thing like the bible and passed the two test having never ridden a motorcycle. the driving part was basicly quick stops, the u-turn in the box and cone weaving and a quick stop on a turn.
Oh lord! That reminds me of when I took my CDL tests at the DMV. I didn't practice for the range driving test at all. While I was finding a place to park I asked the guy with me where the truck range was. He pointed and said "over there, inside the motorcycle range." I just kinda sat there for a moment before saying "Did you say INSIDE the motorcycle range!?" :? That stupid range was pure torture. :x
I decided when I wanted to get my motorcycle endorsement that I'd plunk down the money, however much it happened to be and take the course. :)
GEEEZ that's ruff when I get out of the ARNG [construction equipment operator] I'll probably go down and get my CDL as well or might get that through the National Guard...but ya
Quote from: NerobroQuote from: se7enty7Okay second day done.
This honestly is a joke. If it weren't for an insurance reduction and automatic full mc license I'd demand a refund.
......
I wish I didn't have to say this... but waste of $250. Also this stupid wh0re in the class banged her helmet clasp against my mirrored faceshield.. scratching it. arg. On a better note, the guy with the cbr1000rr let me try on his scorpion helmet (REALLY nice looking, seems of much better quality than my HJC cl-14.. only his helmet seems really small for a L) and tried
I was given the op[toin of getting my money back at the end of the MSF course here in illinois. if you paid $250, was it really a MSF course? or was it a private lesson company?
As for the CL-14. It is the lower end dot and snell helmet from HJC. Try on a AC-11 and you might have a better opinoin. The CL-14 is a plastic noodle bucket, the AC-11 is composite. It's somewhat lighter, and comes with a breath guard, and you can't feel the seams in the liner like you can with the CL-14
I thought that the cl-14 and ac-11 shell's were identical.. that the only difference between the two is a breath guard and removable/washable cushioning inside
Nope, the differences are somewhat more signifigant than that :-) The price difference is justified ;-) I own both.