If anyone remembers, this summer/fall I had problems with my oil pressure light coming on while the bike was hot, at idle, and on the sidestand. I found some gasket maker pieces in the oil, and assumed that was the problem. I finally took the oil pan off to see what was in there and in the oil strainer and found this:
(http://server3.uploadit.org/files/manofthefield-DSCF0158small.jpg)
(http://server3.uploadit.org/files/manofthefield-DSCF0160small.jpg)
The large piece is about 1.5 inches long. The outer edge of the larger piece of the foreign material has about the same curve as the oil strainer. It is hard, probably a plastic. The thickness tapers towards the inside edge, as seen in the second pic. It has an arc to it when you lay it on its side, so it may have been conical in shape, or it may just be warped by heat.
WHAT IS IT??? And how did it get in my oil pan?
edit - pictures shrunken
I cant tell you where it came from, but that looks like a piece of gasket to me. Of course, its a bit thick to be gasket.. but I cant imagine what else it would be... unless your engine has turned into a Caramel Toffe factory.
EDIT: could it be part of a clutch plate? Its certainly round enough.... even though clutch plates dont (normally) taper.
OK You got goats ... thats lacquer from the rotor magnet ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Where is the oil strainer when you have the pan off? Im probley going to have to take my oil pan off and fix my striped drain plug and I think I might clean it while Ive got it apart, just want to make sure I get the right part.
Srinath, you truely are a GS guru. I took the left cover off and looked at the alternator magnets, where 75% of the laquer was knocked off. And the laquer for the last complete strip was buckling. All the magnets are in place and in tact.
I am not familiar with goats syndrome yet, I never followed those threads that closely. So my question is, Does that laquer need to be there? Or can i just get all the pieces out and put my bike back together?
In the mean time, I think I'll do some research on Goats :roll:
Quote from: sprint_9Where is the oil strainer when you have the pan off? Im probley going to have to take my oil pan off and fix my striped drain plug and I think I might clean it while Ive got it apart, just want to make sure I get the right part.
Now that I have the oil pan off, my oil strainer is in the basement, in the parts washer.
Oh wait, you probably want to know where the oil strainer is on your bike... :P
You should see the strainer right away when you take the oil pan off. It has three 10mm (i think) bolts holding it on and has an arrow engraved on it that points forward. Both things very easy to take off with the exaust off (also very easy to take off)
I'd say the lacquer should be there ... now you may be able to spray on or coat it with lacquer from a can ... never tried it ... my rotor was an enchilada by the time I got around to looking at it ...
Cool.
Srinath.
What is the purpose of the the laquer, insulator or glue?
The magnet is made of shaZam! ... OK OK compacted shaZam! ... or it looked like that on mine ... the glue keeps it from disintegrating at speed I would think ... but who knows ... I'd glue somehting ... maybe JB weld ... maybe lacquer ... marine tex ... BTW where is marine tex available ... need to patch up a tank ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: manofthefieldWhat is the purpose of the the laquer, insulator or glue?
the magnet on mine had a small small chip taken out of it. I sealed it with this thin glue stuff.. like superglue... resists oils and such... and I haven't had a problem
In case anyone wants to know, this is what my alternator magnets look like:
(http://server2.uploadit.org/files/manofthefield-DSCF0164.JPG)
I am going to take this pic and a piece of the "laquer" with me to talk to a mechanic tomorrow. The guys at my local suzuki dealer are pretty good to deal with, so I will see what he says to do about it.
The materials small high field magnets are made from is very brittle "shaZam!" to use Srinath's term. You just about can break it in two by hand. The magnets are formed in a press mold while in a high magnetic field. Heat is usually applied in the process to assist in the fusing of the raw material. From this you get a very brittle magnet with a low impact or tensile limit. In short, the shaZam! breaks easy.
The encapsulation, epoxy or plastic, is usually there to protect the edges of the magnet from impact and chipping. We had super obtanium (just made that up) magnets that totally flew apart only from centrifugal force because the material could not take the shear stresses. This is bad on the rotating section of a CT scanner because they were used for postional information. They were replaced with the same type magnet that was totally encapsulated. We had to chisel the old ones off with gloves and eye shields because the obtanium (again made up name) was toxic and could be absorbed via skin. :o
I think the stuff on the GS rotor is there to keep from hitting the edges of the magnet while installing the cover. You are very close to getting Goat's Syndrome. If some of that had gotten between your magnets and the windings.... BAAAA! BAAAAA! :)
The centrifugal forces on the rotor ADD to the compaction of the magnet. The Suzuki guy will probably recommend rotor replacement. Bend over, here it comes. :roll:
It seams that the rest of the magnents are still intact yet have no fractures. I am not sure all how worried I would be since the most likely thing to happen is for the magnets to fall off from the adhesive failing(thats what goat's is right?) so I am not to sure on what the coating actually does.
OK if the magnets fall off ... guess what the damage is going to be ... it will destroy your stator, and most likely the starter clutch as well as get shattered in a million pieces and get into the oil and get pumped into galleys and get stuck in the crank ... if you're very unlucky ... it might jam the starter clutch and spin the starter to 80,000 rpm ... and destroy it as well ... AKA starwalts disease ... if you're unlucky .... so now do you feel lucky ... do you .. Punk ...
Forgive me ... I been watching Aaaahnold in True lies and I want to talk like Dirty Harry ... so do you ... PUNK
OK Im good ...
Cool.
Srinath.
eh goat's isn't ALL bad... I recovered... after my second bout.... lol...
Quotenow you may be able to spray on or coat it with lacquer from a can
No, plz dont do that, Find a place that rebuilds Pump Drive motors, or heavy duty electric motors, if they do the rebuilding in house, they can dip your rotor in fresh epoxy. they have the solvents and everything needed to clean off all the oldstuff and to make sure there is a good bonding of the newstuff. worse case buy another rotor in better shape.
Well, I talked to the guys at the dealer today, they said that the epoxy between the magnets and the rotor is what holds the magnets on. It seemed to be their opinion that the epoxy on the end that was chipping off didn't do much. All the rest of the epoxy on my rotor between the magnets and underneath seems to be in tact. It was their opinion to clean off the loose fragments and put it back together.
I'm not 100% convinced, because I really don't want to come down with full on goats syndrome. I think I'm going to take the rotor to an electric motor shop and see what they think/ possibly have it recoated as blueknyt suggested.
p.s. any suggestions for getting ther rotor bolt out? I can't seem to figure out how to stop the engine from spinning
Put it in gear?
I had the same problem removing mine. Look under my Just picked up my GS500 project (http://gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13774) thread. I ended up using the "Broussard Method" of putting a wheel stop bar across the swing arm, putting the engine in gear, turning the rotor bolt until the wheel spoke hit the bar and stopped. Crank on the bolt till it lets go. Normal thread direction for removal.
Now the real fun begins. You will have to use some type of bump tool to remove the rotor. It is pressed on via the bolt. It is easier to check out my method or something similar. Better hope you don't have to go Srinath's way though.
Page 2 of the "Just picked up..." thread shows the tool I made.
The epoxy on mine is loose also. I still think it protects the magnet edges.
Check with a snowmobile shop, preferably and Arctic Cat one. I had the stator on my snowmobile take a crap and my local shop was able to send it in an get it fixed, if you cant find the info from one of your local shops Ill hit up mine and see if I can come up with anything.
Also a more cost effective solution would be to keep a look out on eBay, I saw a stator on there last week for not a whole lot, there are a couple of guys on there now that have some electrical parts up for sale, send them an email.
Ok, went to an electric motor, alternator, etc. shop with my rotor and talked to the guy for a while, very helpful man. The stuff is just epoxy and the part that chipped off on the ends is just there to cap it. I would probably be able to run it as is, but he said while you have it off, you should fix it. His quote was "that is difference between a good job and a great job." Anyway, his advice was to clean it up really well with alcohol, get the remaining loose chips off and do it myself with epoxy. He said that is exactly what he would do with it if I gave it to him. And his shop rate was $80+ /hr. He went so far as to say that the job I do will be better than what I would get with a replacement rotor, because the replacement will eventually have the same problems. So I've got some work to do, then at least 16 hours to wait for the epoxy to cure :roll:
What kind of epoxy did he recommend?
Just normal 2 part epoxy that you would get from the hardware store
This type of info is what's great about this site...be sure to get back with how this turned out...some of us might need to know later. Thanks.
Well here's what I used:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/manofthefield/DSCF0167.jpg)
It's a little hard to see the new epoxy because it so dark. The one orange spot is from the original epoxy, that little bit didn't want to come off at all. It's been curing for about 2 hours now, so ~14 to go. I think I may let it cure longer than that before I put it back on the cold bike out in the garage, maybe I'll wait til march :o I was planning on going back to school today, but this project has held me up. I may just leave the bike somewhat dissasembled until spring break.
OK please tell me that epoxy can stand atleast 300 degrees ... or probably more ... I cant read that print on it ... I'd have used JB weld ... In fact I did use JB weld in the stator I wound ... pretty .... :bs: ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Package says 250 degrees F :dunno:
"Regular" epoxies usually have a "heat distortion temp", usually around 140 degrees or so, which is when the epoxy starts to get soft. They often work fine at 160-170 degrees (dry), and for short periods above 300F, but not sustained. I've seen heat distortion temps as high as 212F, even for regular epoxies.
Then there are "high temperature epoxies", which may have a 2-stage hardening process: 1st at room temperature, then a second hardening at 150F or so. These usually have a HazMat shipping restriction on the hardener. The heat distortion temp is still down at 140F or so, but they can handle 300-350F sustained temps (dry).
Google on "high temperature epoxy" shows some possibilites:
novolac Epoxy Systems #634 or #641: http://www.epoxysystems.com/634.htm
JeffCo #1337 with #3137: http://www.jeffcoproducts.com/sitemap.html
Duralco #4703 tooling epoxy: http://www.hightemperatureadhesives.com/epoxy%20adhesive%20general.htm
The wire I bought for my alternator rewind was from mouser electronics ... they had clear epoxy that was resistant to 400F .... Not sure if that is burst or constant ... I cant find the box now ... it was as the title said clear ... after I coated the stator it looked gorgeous ... still could see the deep color of the enamelled copper wire ... now JB weld might work OK too, cos I remember they slap it on heads and valve covers ...
Cool.
Srinath.